Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;649973]I'm not quite sure who I want. I mean if we draft a QB in the first round (and I kind of feel we should) then I'm torn between Clausen and Bradford. I think each is a potential high-risk, high reward choice.

After that-not sold on Pike, think Snead could make a good pro but have concerns about his mental toughness, not sure Zac Robinson can be an everydown QB, think Dominic Randolph might not be tough enough, and have some doubts about Skelton's maturity level (from some reports I've heard).

I think the one guy I most want is Jonathan Dwyer, RB from Georgia Tech, but not in the 1st round of course.

I'd ideally like to get Bradford/Clausen in the 1st, USC OT Charles Brown in the 2nd and then hope to trade into the late 2nd/early 3rd and get Dwyer[/quote]

bradford would be especially very bad here imo without a line. if you watch bradford from his soph year, he had literally all day to throw. now he is coming off a major shoulder injury, i just dont see him being a good fit in washington. clausen would be my choice, he has had to face a lot more hardships through playing at nd during a lot of rebuilding time. and i really dont think much of pike. that being said, i hope we stick with campbell and forget about drafting a qb high. as for dwyer, he is a great back, but i seriously doubt he drops far past our 2nd round pick if he even comes out, hes a junior and i havent seen anything anywhere that says hes coming out yet, though i could have missed that.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

I actually like Dominique Rogers-Cromartie, Aqib Talib, Antonio Cromartie, and Kelvin Hayden. Those guys are all pretty young and are going to get better. Even Asante Samuels would be worth a look, though he is getting older at 28 (if we got another player or pick). We may need more compensation to get the value of that pick but I'm just saying it's the least risky and most likely reward potential.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=Rajmahal33;650031]This may sound crazy but hear me out first. Also this is assuming that we do get Shanahan. I think we should trade the 4th pick for a shutdown corner with NFL starting experience. Someone like a younger version of Asante Samuel.
1) Risk - We absolutely can't afford to waste this pick on a possible bust. If we get a young stud CB who has proven potential and already gone thru the NFL learning curve, we can be set at this position for a while. We reduce the risk of failure by not drafting with this pick. Something about picking in the top 5 scares me.
2) Premium for a good CB - Though OT (and QB) are more glaring needs, it seems simply impossible to ensure that we get a starter with true value at these position. I think CB is one of the positions that is the hardest to find a solid player (next to QB). Drafting a rookie to fill this role later is going to be equally tough and risky. No one knows if these guys will develop coming out of college. Let another team take the risk of developing them and we can take advantage of their labor.
3) Later picks/better scouting - With a lot more picks than we usually have and a real GM (in addition to Shanahan's staff), i feel confident that we can get a starting O-linemen in the later rounds of the draft with one of those picks. It's more likely that we can get one or two starting linemen if we throw more picks rather one high profile one at the problem.
4) From a cap standpoint this may make more sense too. The going rate for a top 5 pick (especially an O-linemen or QB) is irrationally high nowadays. If we are going to throw away those kinda dollars at a player, I want to be sure that he sees the field and performs. By getting a good CB with starting experience, we can ensure that he will see PT at a somewhat reduced cost and we'll be able to chase other pieces with that money.[/quote] You sound like you're out of your mind. I completely understand the importance of a shutdown corner. But our team doesn't need a shutdown corner right now. We need offensive linemen. We need a franchise qb. We need lbs. We need breakaway rb. We do not need to address our secondary when they have played pretty solid this year. What we need to do is trade the pick away for more picks.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=LandrySlice;650052]I want Berry damn it![/quote]

Is Berry going to keep our qb from getting killed every other play or open up holes in the running game? If not, then we should either draft Okung or trade for more picks. We need OL more than anything but we also need depth.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

^ none of those guys are worth the 4th pick in any draft. Samuel is great but he's in Philly where they would never trade to a division rival... Sorry but this isn't franchise mode in madden, you can't trade a pick like that for a 29 year old corner .

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=Landry44;650057]You sound like you're out of your mind. I completely understand the importance of a shutdown corner. But our team doesn't need a shutdown corner right now. We need offensive linemen. We need a franchise qb. We need lbs. We need breakaway rb. We do not need to address our secondary when they have played pretty solid this year. What we need to do is trade the pick away for more picks.[/quote]

In an ideal world u can trade away picks and get value for the extra picks u receive, but its not that easy to find a trading partner who gives you value for that pick. It seems like less and less these days that NFL teams are willing to move into the top 10 to draft guys, b/c of the risk of whether they will adapt to the pro game from college as well as the cap implications if they fail (due to these absurd rookie contracts). Also though I'll agree that offensive linemen are the safest position to take in the top 5, they are still anything but a sure thing. I'm just scared sh*tless of having this pick be a bust. It means too much for our franchise.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;650059]^ none of those guys are worth the 4th pick in any draft. Samuel is great but he's in Philly where they would never trade to a division rival... Sorry but this isn't franchise mode in madden, you can't trade a pick like that for a 29 year old corner .[/quote]

With the exception of Hayden all of those young guys were taken in the top 20 of their respective drafts. IMHO, these guys have a legit shot of growing into a shutdown corner role. That along with the fact that we'd have to pay them a lot less money (as compared to a #4 pick) to me is worth dropping ~15 spots. I also said that we could try to pick up an extra pick or player to even up the transaction.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=Rajmahal33;650060]In an ideal world u can trade away picks and get value for the extra picks u receive, but its not that easy to find a trading partner who gives you value for that pick. It seems like less and less these days that NFL teams are willing to move into the top 10 to draft guys, b/c of the risk of whether they will adapt to the pro game from college as well as the cap implications if they fail (due to these absurd rookie contracts). Also though I'll agree that offensive linemen are the safest position to take in the top 5, they are still anything but a sure thing. I'm just scared sh*tless of having this pick be a bust. It means too much for our franchise.[/quote] A few years ago, I told guys on ESPN Redskins message board, that trading our picks for veterans was bad way to build a team. They looked at it as not being a big deal. They felt as long as you got quality guys it didn't matter if we drafted them or acquired them in free agency. Three years later, these same guys now realize that they were wrong. The draft is very important. It's about time us as fans start showing some patience and let guys develop.

If you look at it, our team is old. Right now, we need to get younger on offense and defense. We need to build depth in every position, not just the OL. That is what the draft is for. I can't see why anybody would think it's a good idea to trade away the 4th pick to acquire a vet that you're not sure is going to work out. The best thing for us to do is to trade down. We need more picks.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

Trade Cooley for more picks, and that will address the line. Interesting that the Rutgers OT is already jumping like crazy by Scouts Inc. They claim many OL prospects, so thats good news.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=LandrySlice;650097]Trade Cooley for more picks, and that will address the line. Interesting that the Rutgers OT is already jumping like crazy by Scouts Inc. They claim many OL prospects, so thats good news.[/quote]


I love the move of trading Cooley for more picks, not sure if that is a very popular move around DC though? I would hate to give him up, but for what ever reason this organization wants to draft a QB in the top 5. If that is the case then we need anouther first round pick to shore up the line a little. No other player on our team garners a 1st round pick, or 2nd for that matter. I can't believe that we have the opportunity to draft the best Olineman in college and we are crapping on that because of Danny's unrelenting desire to get Campbell of the door.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=GMScud;650035]If you want a corner so badly, why not just draft Joe Haden? I'm certainly not suggesting we use our 4th pick on him, but by your rationale, that would be the best move. He came to Florida having never played corner before, and yet he started at CB from day one as a freshman and hasn't missed a game since and was 1st team all-American this year. Plus he's a local guy. He's a sick prospect.

You say trade the 4th pick for a great corner. Who? [B]What young shutdown corner is out there that is trade bait?[/B][/quote]You could probably grab Asomugha for Rogers + 4th overall pick.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=GTripp0012;650116]You could probably grab Asomugha for Rogers + 4th overall pick.[/quote]

When I first read this I thought you said Rogers+a 4th and immediately decided Tripp had lost his ever-loving mind.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=FRPLG;650130]When I first read this I thought you said Rogers+a 4th and immediately decided Tripp had lost his ever-loving mind.[/quote]I was also going to suggest dealing our fifth overall rounder to the Packers for Greg Jennings.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

I'm not overly impressed with any of the QBs in this year's draft; however we do need to draft a QB in 2010 or 2011. 2011 could be even "slimmer pickings" than what we have this year, so we might not have much of a choice. There aren't many top tier OTs in this draft either, so taking a QB may wind up being the "smartest" move. I don't like Clausen at all. We'd be better off taking Tebow at #4. I'm indifferent to McCoy. I could live with Bradford. Not really familiar with Pike and Snead.

Drafting Okung with our 1st and then snagging Tebow with our 2nd would be nice. I don't think Tebow will be a great NFL QB, but Shanahan could use him more effectively than most other coaches. ideally, shanahan could work his magic Colt Brennan turn him into a player. I'm not a cult-of-colt member but he's "free."

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;650153]I'm not overly impressed with any of the QBs in this year's draft; however we do need to draft a QB in 2010 or 2011. 2011 could be even "slimmer pickings" than what we have this year, so we might not have much of a choice. There aren't many top tier OTs in this draft either, so taking a QB may wind up being the "smartest" move. [B]I don't like Clausen at all. We'd be better off taking Tebow at #4.[/B] I'm indifferent to McCoy. I could live with Bradford. Not really familiar with Pike and Snead.

Drafting Okung with our 1st and then snagging Tebow with our 2nd would be nice. I don't think Tebow will be a great NFL QB, but Shanahan could use him more effectively than most other coaches. ideally, shanahan could work his magic Colt Brennan turn him into a player. I'm not a cult-of-colt member but he's "free."[/quote]

You don't like Clausen? But you'd take Tebow at #4? Please explain both.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

Tebow in [I]round[/I] 4 maybe. lol

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

Clausen. IMO Bradford is slightly inferior to him because of the system he played in college. Clausen played in an NFL like style in college which would be a benefit for him to start Week 1. I'd expect suh not to slip. I think we need a QB first to turn a page with new coach new QB. But then again theres always Colt Brennan. . .

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=GTripp0012;650147]I was also going to suggest dealing our fifth overall rounder to the Packers for Greg Jennings.[/quote]

Why aren't you the GM?

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

Tebow at 4...that is seriously laughable.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

Draft Tebow with the 4th overall pick, and trade Campbell for Chris Simms. Our problems are solved!

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=Landry44;650063]A few years ago, I told guys on ESPN Redskins message board, that trading our picks for veterans was bad way to build a team. They looked at it as not being a big deal. They felt as long as you got quality guys it didn't matter if we drafted them or acquired them in free agency. Three years later, these same guys now realize that they were wrong. The draft is very important. It's about time us as fans start showing some patience and let guys develop.

If you look at it, our team is old. Right now, we need to get younger on offense and defense. We need to build depth in every position, not just the OL. That is what the draft is for. I can't see why anybody would think it's a good idea to trade away the 4th pick to acquire a vet that you're not sure is going to work out. The best thing for us to do is to trade down. We need more picks.[/quote]

I hear what you're saying about the draft. We have started drafting players even under Cerrato's watch. My biggest beef with him was he neglected the O-line.

I don't share your view about the team bing old. Yes there are a few older players on the roster but nothing compared to the way it was last year and years before. Most of the older guys will be "retiring" this year anyway, IE: Thomas, Samuels, Wynn, Daniels, etc.

Some of the guys on the roster will be traded, cut, or let go. We have good young talent on this team at almost every position except the O-line, which has none.

We could upgrade in a few areas, but we do have young to medium aged players like Golston, Horton, Blades, Doughty, McIntosh, and Cartwright. They may not blow your socks off but they get the job done if used properly. This isn't taken into account guys that are coming into their own, IE: Orakpo, Jarmon, Davis, and Thomas.

Also, the team isn't going to have to learn a totally different offense.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=Lotus;650008]Living in Mississippi I've seen a lot of Snead and I think he should wait a year IMHO. He just does not seem ready for prime time.[/quote]

Agreed, but at the same time if he does come out he's probably a mid-rounder. Shanahan could take him and develop him while starting Campbell for one more year-which isn't all that unlikely.

Shanahan is definitely drafting a QB this year. I just don't know where

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;650234]Agreed, but at the same time if he does come out he's probably a mid-rounder. Shanahan could take him and develop him while starting Campbell for one more year-which isn't all that unlikely.

[B]Shanahan is definitely drafting a QB this year.[/B] I just don't know where[/quote]

Is there a reason for your certainty other than "new regimes mean new QB's"?

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=Lotus;650248]Is there a reason for your certainty other than "new regimes mean new QB's"?[/quote]

Too many people telling me he's drafting a QB for me to not think it's true. But I've heard it could be the 1st round, could be the 2nd, could be as late as the 4th.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;650182]I hear what you're saying about the draft. We have started drafting players even under Cerrato's watch. My biggest beef with him was he neglected the O-line.

I don't share your view about the team bing old. Yes there are a few older players on the roster but nothing compared to the way it was last year and years before. Most of the older guys will be "retiring" this year anyway, IE: Thomas, Samuels, Wynn, Daniels, etc.

Some of the guys on the roster will be traded, cut, or let go. We have good young talent on this team at almost every position except the O-line, which has none.

We could upgrade in a few areas, but we do have young to medium aged players like Golston, Horton, Blades, Doughty, McIntosh, and Cartwright. They may not blow your socks off but they get the job done if used properly. This isn't taken into account guys that are coming into their own, IE: Orakpo, Jarmon, Davis, and Thomas.

Also, the team isn't going to have to learn a totally different offense.[/quote]

Hey Trample - that is an almost optimistic quote from you, don't get too carried away just yet.

just messing around, it's really good to see this team apparently moving toward the light.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;650251]Too many people telling me he's drafting a QB for me to not think it's true. But I've heard it could be the 1st round, could be the 2nd, could be as late as the 4th.[/quote]

Although I'd love to take a stud LT at #4, I'm warming to the idea of taking a QB high. Heath Shuler and Norm Snead were our only attempts to draft an elite QB in the last 50 years. Maybe it is time for a change in "strategery."

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;650234]Agreed, but at the same time if he does come out he's probably a mid-rounder. Shanahan could take him and develop him while starting Campbell for one more year-which isn't all that unlikely.

[B]Shanahan is definitely drafting a QB this year.[/B] I just don't know where[/quote]

That's the ESPN company line. :Flush:

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=Buster;650264]That's the ESPN company line. :Flush:[/quote]

LOL...sure

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=Lotus;650261]Although I'd love to take a stud LT at #4, I'm warming to the idea of taking a QB high. Heath Shuler and Norm Snead were our only attempts to draft an elite QB in the last 50 years. Maybe it is time for a change in "strategery."[/quote]

I'm not entirely convinced that there is a stud LT at #4. I think we could get someone just as good in round 2.

If we don't take a QB or LT I suppose Berry is possible if he's there though I haven't really heard much indicating we're interested. And I'd still say keep an eye on Rolando McClain. Still it's very very early.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=Lotus;650163]You don't like Clausen? But you'd take Tebow at #4? Please explain both.[/quote]

I would be seriously pissed if we drafted Tebow at 4 - i was just dramatically emphasizing my dislike for Clausen. While I think has the physical and mental skills to to eventually be a good NFL QB, i don't think he's NFL-ready right now. However, my main distaste for him is less tangible and has more to do with his personality - or atleast what i've seen of it. he has the persona of a cocky (not the same as [U]confident[/U]), smart-ass kid who thinks too much of himself. I heard his interview with vinny cerrato and he just seemed like a total douche - he didn't seem like someone who would earn the respect of the locker room. To me, he just doesnt have the "it" factor. i don't see him as a "leader." Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy and Tim Tebow do. they have the persona that commands respect. While there is a high-risk, high reward factor with all of those guys (less so with Tebow), Bradford and McCoy are guys I can see being "manning/brady-esque" in their ability to make guys around them better, take the team on their shoulders, and win games. A guy with Claussen's attitude will never achieve that. I'd rather not gamble on any of these guys in the 1st round, but Claussens completely off my "board."

i mean, look at the guy.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:102007-JimmyClausen.jpg]File:102007-JimmyClausen.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

don't you just want to smack him?

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

^ Yes.


Tebow seems like a great guy as a person (much like Zorn), but I don't want to experiment with a QB in the mold of others who have failed at the pro level. I don't think he'll succeed as a pro. His career could follow Pat White's...a backup or even emergency QB who only gets on the field for trick plays as a ball carrier.

I don't want to see the #4 pick wasted on any QB, but Tebow especially.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;650270]I would be seriously pissed if we drafted Tebow at 4 - i was just dramatically emphasizing my dislike for Clausen. While I think has the physical and mental skills to to eventually be a good NFL QB, i don't think he's NFL-ready right now. However, my main distaste for him is less tangible and has more to do with his personality - or atleast what i've seen of it. he has the persona of a cocky (not the same as [U]confident[/U]), smart-ass kid who thinks too much of himself. I heard his interview with vinny cerrato and he just seemed like a total douche - he didn't seem like someone who would earn the respect of the locker room. To me, he just doesnt have the "it" factor. i don't see him as a "leader." Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy and Tim Tebow do. they have the persona that commands respect. While there is a high-risk, high reward factor with all of those guys (less so with Tebow), Bradford and McCoy are guys I can see being "manning/brady-esque" in their ability to make guys around them better, take the team on their shoulders, and win games. A guy with Claussen's attitude will never achieve that. I'd rather not gamble on any of these guys in the 1st round, but Claussens completely off my "board."

i mean, look at the guy.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:102007-JimmyClausen.jpg]File:102007-JimmyClausen.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

don't you just want to smack him?[/quote]

Fair enough. You are not the first to call out Clausen as smug and arrogant.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;650270]I would be seriously pissed if we drafted Tebow at 4 - i was just dramatically emphasizing my dislike for Clausen. While I think has the physical and mental skills to to eventually be a good NFL QB, i don't think he's NFL-ready right now. However, my main distaste for him is less tangible and has more to do with his personality - or atleast what i've seen of it. he has the persona of a cocky (not the same as [U]confident[/U]), smart-ass kid who thinks too much of himself. I heard his interview with vinny cerrato and he just seemed like a total douche - he didn't seem like someone who would earn the respect of the locker room. To me, he just doesnt have the "it" factor. i don't see him as a "leader." Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy and Tim Tebow do. they have the persona that commands respect. While there is a high-risk, high reward factor with all of those guys (less so with Tebow), Bradford and McCoy are guys I can see being "manning/brady-esque" in their ability to make guys around them better, take the team on their shoulders, and win games. A guy with Claussen's attitude will never achieve that. I'd rather not gamble on any of these guys in the 1st round, but Claussens completely off my "board."

i mean, look at the guy.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:102007-JimmyClausen.jpg]File:102007-JimmyClausen.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

don't you just want to smack him?[/quote]

I agree with most of what you have to say. I wouldn't be totally pissed with McCoy in the first or Tebow in the second. Clausen just looks like a douche to me.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;650254]Hey Trample - that is an almost optimistic quote from you, don't get too carried away just yet.

just messing around, it's really good to see this team apparently moving toward the light.[/quote]

New year buddy - new year!

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

My thoughts:

1. St Louis: May go QB here, but most likely Suh?
2. Detroit: Not going qb, Berry, Okung, Suh?
3. TB: Not going qb, Berry, McCoy, Okung
4. Washington: We may still have all of the QB's on the board if we so choose. Suh will be gone that's for sure. Okung most likely will be gone. I could see us sliding down a few spots if there's a partner willing. Teams need young qb's and we'll be sitting nicely. We potentially can slide down and still go OL or qb.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

Trade back.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

I say if we can trade down take C J Spiller keep Campbell and Brennan, build offensive line through the rest of the draft, and free agency (there are a few lineman out there) and we'll have someone that can take it to the house anytime he touches it whether at RB,WR, or returner. I think we could use a player like that on offense , because we don't have one right now..

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;650234]Agreed, but at the same time if he does come out he's probably a mid-rounder. Shanahan could take him and develop him while starting Campbell for one more year-which isn't all that unlikely.

Shanahan is definitely drafting a QB this year. I just don't know where[/quote]

I don't think Snead should leave school early. He had huge expectations on him this year, and he was pretty much a dud. He could improve his draft stock significantly if he sticks around Ole Miss for his senior year, plus he won't have the likes of Bradford, McCoy, Clausen, and Tebow to compete with. I mean this season his completion % was in the low 50's and he threw 20 INTs. I want no part of that dude.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

I would probably recommend Snead return as well. And I'm not advocating him, just saying he's a possibility.

I like Snead but I probably like Zac Robinson better and I honestly don't know that I really want either one when all is said and done.

Re: Redskins pick 4th in the draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;650336]I would probably recommend Snead return as well. And I'm not advocating him, just saying he's a possibility.

I like Snead but I probably like Zac Robinson better and I honestly don't know that I really want either one when all is said and done.[/quote]

Wasn't it Snead they were calling the interception machine?