Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

his job is to follow up on orders from his boss. and i guess you wouldn't take their money? space exploration is a very costly venture. that's what this is all about. that, and trying to improve the U.S. standing in the world. old W made a lot of enemies in 8 years

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

Considering NASA's budget there is hardly any cost associated with having NASA folks give lectures at Middle Easter universities or give tours of NASA projects and facilities. There's also the fact that we already do this sort of thing.


Try again because you've failed.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=firstdown;711216]Fear-mongering. Ok, then what type of rockets have the people in the middle east been experimenting with/on? How about its also not his job as head of NASA.[/quote]

Whether you like it or not they're going to build them, it's just a matter of time and you can't cheat time. I believe Pakistan and Iran have ones that can certainly reach Israel and they will probably have ones that can reach USA within ten years.

You can send NASA now or you can send 140K troops in 10 or 20 years...what do you want to do?

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;711208]That's my issue, as much as I have one, with it, not the "fear-mongering". IF NASA has a purposeful existence, it should be focused on practical application of engineering breakthroughs in order to achieve greater use of space for peaceful uses. Examples could include establishing moon based farming colonies, and the technologies which enable transferring people and goods to space based colonies. A good example of what it should not include is fostering international interest in math and science. We have several other departments and bureacracies whose funding is for the encouragement and development of educational awareness both nationally and internationally.[/quote]

Ok, that's an argument I can respect. I mean, look I've got relatives that work for NASA who have been told they will be let go in a couple of months because of the changes in NASA's overall philosophy. For their sake, I'm not thrilled about all this.

However, I think the first step to finding breakthroughs in order to achieve greater use of space is to engage the international community.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=dmek25;711227]his job is to follow up on orders from his boss. and i guess you wouldn't take their money? space exploration is a very costly venture. that's what this is all about. that, and trying to improve the U.S. standing in the world. old W made a lot of enemies in 8 years[/quote]

Yea blame W for his dumb ass actions. I guess its the only way to explain the dumb shit he does. This dude builds rockets not relations with other nations thats Hilliary Clinton's job but I guess this is a little more confusing then running some neighbor hood program.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=saden1;711233]Whether you like it or not they're going to build them, it's just a matter of time and you can't cheat time. I believe Pakistan and Iran have ones that can certainly reach Israel and they will probably have ones that can reach USA within ten years.

You can send NASA now or you can send 140K troops in 10 or 20 years...what do you want to do?[/quote]

I'm sure by his visit they will stop dreaming of blowing us up and start dreaming about going to the moon. I know we can't stop them but we sure as hell don't need to help them.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

Notice something?

[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Seal_Of_The_President_Of_The_Unites_States_Of_America.svg/500px-Seal_Of_The_President_Of_The_Unites_States_Of_America.svg.png[/IMG]

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=firstdown;711216]Fear-mongering. Ok, then what type of rockets have the people in the middle east been experimenting with/on? How about its also not his job as head of NASA.[/quote]

[url=http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article78663.ece]Joint Saudi-Indian space research planned - Arab News[/url]

[url=http://qatar-space.blogspot.com/2010/02/qatar-peace-maker-in-middle-east.html]Qatar's Space Program: Qatar, The Peace Maker in The Middle East[/url]

[url=http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-186560-101-turkeys-first-domestic-satellite-to-be-launched-next-year.html]Turkey’s first domestic satellite to be launched next year[/url]

But you're right, all they care about is launching rockets at Israel and the US

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=saden1;711251]Notice something?

[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Seal_Of_The_President_Of_The_Unites_States_Of_America.svg/500px-Seal_Of_The_President_Of_The_Unites_States_Of_America.svg.png[/IMG][/quote]

I don't know. All I see is an olive branch

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=saden1;711251]Notice something?

[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Seal_Of_The_President_Of_The_Unites_States_Of_America.svg/500px-Seal_Of_The_President_Of_The_Unites_States_Of_America.svg.png[/IMG][/quote]
I just see a bunch of arrows. J/K

From wiki:
The olive branch and arrows denote the powers of peace and war. The eagle faces towards the right to show a preference to peace over war.

However peace/war, middle east bombs, etc. isn't the point. The point is this type of outreach and diplomacy isn't and should never be NASA's primary function. Nothing wrong with attempting to work with friendly nations when possible, but Bolden stated this was a primary focus given to him directly by the POTUS. Even the WH backed off Bolden's statement because they know it looks bad under scrutiny.

That being said, what would the outrage have been on CNN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC etc. if the NASA Administrator under Bush had come out and said as one of his primary directives was "(Bush) wanted me to find a way to reach out to the (Christian/Jewish) world and engage much more with dominantly (Christian/Jewish) nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science ... and math and engineering."

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;711289]I just see a bunch of arrows. J/K

From wiki:
The olive branch and arrows denote the powers of peace and war. The eagle faces towards the right to show a preference to peace over war.

However peace/war, middle east bombs, etc. isn't the point. The point is this type of outreach and diplomacy isn't and should never be NASA's primary function. Nothing wrong with attempting to work with friendly nations when possible, but Bolden stated this was a primary focus given to him directly by the POTUS. Even the WH backed off Bolden's statement because they know it looks bad under scrutiny.

That being said, what would the outrage have been on CNN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC etc. if the NASA Administrator under Bush had come out and said as one of his primary directives was "(Bush) wanted me to find a way to reach out to the (Christian/Jewish) world and engage much more with dominantly (Christian/Jewish) nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science ... and math and engineering."[/quote]


I'm sure it won't be their primary focus, he's on Al-Jazeera and is pitching a sale. The White House backed off? I was under the impression that White House spokesman Nick Shapiro recently said:

[quote]“The President has always said that he wants NASA to engage with the world’s best scientists and engineers as we work together to push the boundaries of exploration. Meeting that mandate requires NASA to partner with countries around the world like Russia and Japan, as well as collaboration with Israel and with many Muslim-majority countries. The space race began as a global competition, but, today, it is a global collaboration.”
[/quote]

As for your Bush bit I think we're already doing that aren't we? So if he did it would be stating the obvious. And that's fine, collaboration is fine.

BTW, the [URL="http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/talktojazeera/2010/07/201071122234471970.html"]AJ interview is fantastic[/URL].

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=SmootSmack;711253]I don't know. All I see is an olive branch[/quote]


You mean that green thing on the left isn't camouflaging sharp edged knife? :doh:

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=saden1;711309]You mean that green thing on the left isn't camouflaging sharp edged knife? :doh:[/quote]Actually it is, it represents our special ops forces.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=SmootSmack;711247]Ok, that's an argument I can respect. I mean, look I've got relatives that work for NASA who have been told they will be let go in a couple of months because of the changes in NASA's overall philosophy. For their sake, I'm not thrilled about all this.

[B]However, I think the first step to finding breakthroughs in order to achieve greater use of space is to engage the international community[/B].[/quote]

Do you not find that kind of intercontinental, Utopian sharing of idea's and concepts a bit.......naive?

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=saden1;711304]I'm sure it won't be their primary focus, he's on Al-Jazeera and is pitching a sale. The White House backed off? I was under the impression that White House spokesman Nick Shapiro recently said:[/quote]It was NASA that issued the pull-back statement not the WH directly, my mistake:

A NASA spokesman on Tuesday claimed Bolden was referring to his outreach priorities, not his priorities overall, and that space exploration is still the No. 1 mission. It's unclear whether the White House or NASA will face pressure to say any more.

[quote]As for your Bush bit I think we're already doing that aren't we? So if he did it would be stating the obvious. And that's fine, collaboration is fine.[/quote]I thought we were working with the nations that would be helpful for space exploration regardless of primary religion. Last I checked Japan is not a Christian or Jewish nation and Russia/Canada are primarily secular. I also don't think membership in the European Space Agency has anything to do with a country's primary religion.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=Hog1;711319]Do you not find that kind of intercontinental, Utopian sharing of idea's and concepts a bit.......naive?[/quote]

Not really, I think you can take two paths at the same time. One that is a bit closely guarded, and one that is more open to collaboration

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=dmek25;711227][B]his job is to follow up on orders from his boss[/B]. and i guess you wouldn't take their money? space exploration is a very costly venture. that's what this is all about. that, and trying to improve the U.S. standing in the world. old W made a lot of enemies in 8 years[/quote]
AND I could probably have my lawn guy re-paint my Ferrari (actually CRedskins Ferrari)....but perhaps his talents would be better spent in something more akin to his talents?
OR is logic no longer a part of the equation?

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

if your boss tells you to do something, do you do it? do you understand what happens if you don't? just ask the general what happens if you bad mouth your boss

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;711320]It was NASA that issued the pull-back statement not the WH directly, my mistake:

A NASA spokesman on Tuesday claimed Bolden was referring to his [B]outreach priorities, not his priorities overall[/B], and that space exploration is still the No. 1 mission. It's unclear whether the White House or NASA will face pressure to say any more.

I thought we were working with the nations that would be helpful for space exploration regardless of primary religion. Last I checked Japan is not a Christian or Jewish nation and Russia/Canada are primarily secular. I also don't think membership in the European Space Agency has anything to do with a country's primary religion.[/quote]

To be honest I thought as much, it would be retarded to think that NASA all of a sudden is going to repurpose all it engineers for outreach mission.

I assume when we're talking about the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_world"]Muslim World[/URL] we're talking about countries whom we have strained relationship with or a large portion of its population have a negative view of America. When we deal with Japan and Canada and the EU we call these countries [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World"]First World[/URL]/[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world"]Wester World[/URL] countries. That is to say its usage is for semantic grouping of countries. I am sure if there was more than one Jewish country we'd here the term the Jewish World instead of talking about just Israel.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;711289]I just see a bunch of arrows. J/K

From wiki:
The olive branch and arrows denote the powers of peace and war. The eagle faces towards the right to show a preference to peace over war.

However peace/war, middle east bombs, etc. isn't the point. The point is this type of outreach and diplomacy isn't and should never be NASA's primary function. Nothing wrong with attempting to work with friendly nations when possible, but Bolden stated this was a primary focus given to him directly by the POTUS. Even the WH backed off Bolden's statement because they know it looks bad under scrutiny.

That being said, what would the outrage have been on CNN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC etc. if the NASA Administrator under Bush had come out and said as one of his primary directives was "(Bush) wanted me to find a way to reach out to the (Christian/Jewish) world and engage much more with dominantly (Christian/Jewish) nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science ... and math and engineering."[/quote]

Actually Reagan asked for NASA outreach to the Russians during the Cold War. The idea of mixing space exploration and diplomacy is not as weird as you make it sound.

In terms of a specific outreach to Muslims, Muslims invented the concept of zero in operative mathematics (that is, not just a placeholder). The Maya did too, independently, but Western mathematics got the concept of zero from Muslim mathematicians. Muslims also developed algebra. Given that a motivation for terrorism arises from a felt loss of heritage (read the books of Georgetown Univ.'s John Esposito if you don't believe me), helping Muslims feel good about their historical contributions to mathematics actually is a terror-fighting tool. Plus it helps us to recruit bright minds from places like Egypt, Jordan, etc., to contribute to space advancements.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=Lotus;711345]Given that a motivation for terrorism arises from a felt loss of heritage (read the books of Georgetown Univ.'s John Esposito if you don't believe me), helping Muslims feel good about their historical contributions to mathematics actually is a terror-fighting tool. Plus it helps us to recruit bright minds from places like Egypt, Jordan, etc., to contribute to space advancements.[/quote]Nice try at spin, but no cigar. Esposito is wrong. Muslims who are motivated to terrorism are motivated by religious zealotry and extremism, nothing more, nothing less. NASA reaching out to help make Muslims "feel good" as a tool to "fight terrorism" is a HUGE reach.

Any Muslim who doesn't have extremist views and is one of the "best and brightest" in that region certainly doesn't need NASA or anyone else in the U.S. to tell him/her about Muslim contributions to math/science.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;711358][B]Nice try at spin, but no cigar. Esposito is wrong. [/B] Muslims who are motivated to terrorism are motivated by religious zealotry and extremism, nothing more, nothing less. NASA reaching out to help make Muslims "feel good" as a tool to "fight terrorism" is a HUGE reach.

Any Muslim who doesn't have extremist views and is one of the "best and brightest" in that region certainly doesn't need NASA or anyone else in the U.S. to tell him/her about Muslim contributions to math/science.[/quote]

No spin. Esposito is a professor of Muslim studies who is recognized around the world as an expert on Islam. What makes you more of an expert on Islam than he is?

Your "spin" doesn't work. It begs the question of where that "religious zealotry" comes from. I've already provided one answer to that question.

Please try reading one of Esposito's books on Muslim extremism before you judge his books by their covers. Or try reading Rohan Gunaratna, who is considered perhaps the world's best scholar of al-Qaeda.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=Lotus;711345]Actually Reagan asked for NASA outreach to the Russians during the Cold War. The idea of mixing space exploration and diplomacy is not as weird as you make it sound.[/quote]Good article here on NASA history with the USSR.

[URL="http://www.nasa.gov/50th/50th_magazine/coldWarCoOp.html"]NASA - United States-Soviet Space Cooperation during the Cold War[/URL]

But outreach to the USSR was never deemed by the head of NASA to be one of his top three priorities under Reagan. Any outreach was very low key and was only done if there was a direct benefit to the U.S.

To be blunt, folks who have issue with Bolden's statement understand there's no major funding for any Muslim outreach initiatives in the NASA budget. This is a PR blunder by Bolden and many feel it illustrates where Obama's philosophical priorities lie.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

Well sense Obama isn't closing Gitmo (another broken promise to his loyal followers) he could just have NASA work with the guys there. They could start with the basics of rocket building. Then work up to guiding a rocket with satellite systems (we know they have them because SS provided links). We could allow them to fire off a few testers over Israel because that would really make them like use.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=Lotus;711345]Actually Reagan asked for NASA outreach to the Russians during the Cold War. The idea of mixing space exploration and diplomacy is not as weird as you make it sound.

In terms of a specific outreach to Muslims, Muslims invented the concept of zero in operative mathematics (that is, not just a placeholder). The Maya did too, independently, but Western mathematics got the concept of zero from Muslim mathematicians. Muslims also developed algebra. Given that a motivation for terrorism arises from a felt loss of heritage (read the books of Georgetown Univ.'s John Esposito if you don't believe me), helping Muslims feel good about their historical contributions to mathematics actually is a terror-fighting tool. Plus it helps us to recruit bright minds from places like Egypt, Jordan, etc., to contribute to space advancements.[/quote]

Why not just give them a trophy for inventing zero like 10000 years ago. We do that with kids in sports now days so it must work.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

SS33, you're toiling on top of the toilet bowl. You missed a spot.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[url=http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/198601/a.prince.in.space.htm]Saudi Aramco World : A Prince in Space[/url]

[url=http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1173695089516&pagename=Zone-English-HealthScience%2FHSELayout]Eight Muslims in Space and Counting - IslamOnline.net - Health & Science[/url]

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=dmek25;711331]if your boss tells you to do something, do you do it? do you understand what happens if you don't? just ask the general what happens if you bad mouth your boss[/quote]
Sooo, reading between the lines................it makes no sense to you either.....employer/employee hierarchy notwithstanding?

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=Lotus;711345]Actually Reagan asked for NASA outreach to the Russians during the Cold War. The idea of mixing space exploration and diplomacy is not as weird as you make it sound.

In terms of a specific outreach to Muslims, Muslims invented the concept of zero in operative mathematics (that is, not just a placeholder). The Maya did too, independently, but Western mathematics got the concept of zero from Muslim mathematicians. Muslims also developed algebra. [B]Given that a motivation for terrorism arises from a felt loss of heritage (read the books of Georgetown Univ.'s John Esposito if you don't believe me), helping Muslims feel good about their historical contributions to mathematics actually is a terror-fighting tool.[/B] Plus it helps us to recruit bright minds from places like Egypt, Jordan, etc., to contribute to space advancements.[/quote]

While I am not much of a proponent of feel good nonsense for the sake of it, where nobody keeps score so nobody loses and....feels bad and the whole juice boxes for evereybody mentality, that is not the issue.
The issue is....Why is a space agency doing diplomatic work?
BTW, John Esposito has an opinion. The truth can be more elusive...

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=Lotus;711361]Please try reading one of Esposito's books on Muslim extremism before you judge his books by their covers. Or try reading Rohan Gunaratna, who is considered perhaps the world's best scholar of al-Qaeda.[/quote]I'm no expert on Muslim studies, but there are plenty of folks that are experts in this field that have an opinion similar to mine.

So without going down the whole Islamic extremist hole and completely hijacking the thread, maybe you should read the Koran itself, or books from Robert Spencer (Spencer is a weekly columnist for [I]Human Events[/I] and [I]FrontPage Magazine[/I], and has led seminars on Islam and jihad for the United States Central Command, United States Army Command and General Staff College, the U.S. Army's Asymmetric Warfare Group, the FBI, the Joint Terrorism Task Force, and the U.S. intelligence community). I'd say if the folks that fight terrorism for a living are listening to him, his opinion carries a lot more weight than the opinion of an academic.

Maybe you could ask yourself why sharia law allows for stoning to death of women. People have killed over extreme religious views for thousands of years, I don't recall any evidence of people killing because they felt slighted over acknowledgment of their contirbutions to the world-wide math/science community.

I'm thankful that here we can have this debate, in countries ruled by sharia law I'd be executed. Or I could be just full of $hit and "toiling on top of the toilet bowl".

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=saden1;711366]SS33, you're toiling on top of the toilet bowl. You missed a spot.[/quote]Bring something better than that or don't bother.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=firstdown;711364]Well sense Obama isn't closing Gitmo ([B]another broken promise[/B] [B]to his loyal followers[/B]) he could just have NASA work with the guys there. They could start with the basics of rocket building. Then work up to guiding a rocket with satellite systems (we know they have them because SS provided links). We could allow them to fire off a few testers over Israel because that would really make them like use.[/quote]
[url=http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/]PolitiFact | The Obameter: Tracking Barack Obama's Campaign Promises[/url]
119 kept
245 in the works
19 broken
pretty good ratio to me

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

and...
Obama said after the inauguration that he hoped to close Guantanamo within one year, and administration officials admit they won't make that deadline. During the campaign, Obama gave himself no such deadline, and we're judging him here on his campaign promises. He said he would close Guantanamo Bay, and concrete steps are being taken to do so. The promise remains In the Works.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;711385]Bring something better than that or don't bother.[/quote]

You are all over the place. I don't know whether you think NASA shouldn't be involved in outreach, we shouldn't do outreach at all or limit our outreach? Or perhaps you really think NASA's new primary mission is to appeal to the Muslim World.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;711384]I'm no expert on Muslim studies, but there are plenty of folks that are experts in this field that have an opinion similar to mine.

So without going down the whole Islamic extremist hole and completely hijacking the thread, maybe you should read the Koran itself, or books from Robert Spencer (Spencer is a weekly columnist for [I]Human Events[/I] and [I]FrontPage Magazine[/I], and has led seminars on Islam and jihad for the United States Central Command, United States Army Command and General Staff College, the U.S. Army's Asymmetric Warfare Group, the FBI, the Joint Terrorism Task Force, and the U.S. intelligence community). I'd say if the folks that fight terrorism for a living are listening to him, his opinion carries a lot more weight than the opinion of an academic.

Maybe you could ask yourself why sharia law allows for stoning to death of women. People have killed over extreme religious views for thousands of years, I don't recall any evidence of people killing because they felt slighted over acknowledgment of their contirbutions to the world-wide math/science community.

I'm thankful that here we can have this debate, in countries ruled by sharia law I'd be executed. Or I could be just full of $hit and "toiling on top of the toilet bowl".[/quote]

I have read the Koran, several times actually, just as I have read the Bible several times. I read a lot of literature about religion.

You seem to be confused in terms of experts. Robert Spencer is a consultant regarding how to militarily engage Muslims. John Esposito is an expert on Islamic culture. The two are not the same. And, considering my original point was about Islamic culture, experts on Islamic culture like Esposito and Rohan Gunaratna are the relevant experts for this argument.

We can't beat an enemy that we don't understand. The people who study Islamic cultures know Islamic cultures best. I have indicated some of these people already. Now I am reminded of the saying, "You can lead a horse to water..."

As for your statement about Sharia law, you vastly oversimplify a complex issue. You seem unaware that through most of the Muslim world, those injunctions remain unenforced, just as injunctions to stone people in the Bible are not enforced here. Also, those Americans who use the Bible to support capital punishment are doing a similar thing. Thus the situation regarding Sharia law is much more complex than you indicate. Perhaps you should read someone like John Esposito or Rohan Gunaratna.

As for your statement, "I don't recall any evidence of people killing because they felt slighted over acknowledgment of their contirbutions to the world-wide math/science community," I gave you one example already, although the "slight" is not just over math, it is a holistic felt loss of heritage. And your claim that people don't go to war because they feel that they have been slighted doesn't hold up in the light of history. In other words, I offered you an aspect of a complicated situation and you dumbed it down so that you could dismiss it.

Again, we can't beat an enemy that we don't understand. Educating ourselves about Islam helps to fight terror.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=Hog1;711373][B]While I am not much of a proponent of feel good nonsense for the sake of it[/B], where nobody keeps score so nobody loses and....feels bad and the whole juice boxes for evereybody mentality, that is not the issue.
The issue is....Why is a space agency doing diplomatic work?
BTW, John Esposito has an opinion. The truth can be more elusive...[/quote]

I didn't give you a feel-good argument for the sake of it. I gave you an argument based on serious research. I even pointed out who some of the world-recognized experts on the issues are. In other words, I gave you an educated, reasoned argument.

As the old saying goes, "know thy enemy." While experts can be wrong, most of them are right more often. I'm going to learn from them.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=Lotus;711412]You seem to be confused in terms of experts. Robert Spencer is a consultant regarding how to militarily engage Muslims. John Esposito is an expert on Islamic culture. The two are not the same. And, considering my original point was about Islamic culture, experts on Islamic culture like Esposito and Rohan Gunaratna are the relevant experts for this argument.[/quote]I am not confused at all. Your statement about Spencer is incorrect. He is just as much, if not more an expert on Islam and its culture as Esposito/Gunarantna.

[quote]We can't beat an enemy that we don't understand. The people who study Islamic cultures know Islamic cultures best. I have indicated some of these people already. Now I am reminded of the saying, "You can lead a horse to water..."[/quote]I agree, hence my reading of Spencer and others. And regarding your saying, I'll not drink from your watering hole, thank you. It's quite dangerous IMO.

[quote]As for your statement about Sharia law, you vastly oversimplify a complex issue. You seem unaware that through most of the Muslim world, those injunctions remain unenforced, just as injunctions to stone people in the Bible are not enforced here. Also, those Americans who use the Bible to support capital punishment are doing a similar thing. Thus the situation regarding Sharia law is much more complex than you indicate. Perhaps you should read someone like John Esposito or Rohan Gunaratna.[/quote]This is quite common, equating the actions of violent Muslims to Christianity in some way. Your comparisons are not accurate or relevant.

[quote]In other words, I offered you an aspect of a complicated situation and you dumbed it down so that you could dismiss it. Again, we can't beat an enemy that we don't understand.[/quote]I'm not dumbing anything down. My point with stoning is, it's another instance of Muslim extremeists killing over religious beliefs. And it does occur on a regular basis in countries ruled by sharia law.

[quote]Educating ourselves about Islam helps to fight terror.[/quote]I absolutely agree with your point. I understand your position and have researched the issue over the years since 9/11 as well. I think we are focusing on two different elements within the Muslim community, you're focusing on mainstream Muslims who are peaceful and just want a good life for their families. They may not like the U.S., but no more so than many mainstream people in Europe, China, etc. I'm focusing on the violent extremist minority who you cannot reason with or negotiate with. Unfortunately the violent element has a lot more power in that region because they often reach into the governments and will resort to violence.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=saden1;711401]You are all over the place. I don't know whether you think NASA shouldn't be involved in outreach, we shouldn't do outreach at all or limit our outreach? Or perhaps you really think NASA's new primary mission is to appeal to the Muslim World.[/quote]How's this? NASA's job is to do "space stuff". The amount of focus the NASA Administrator should be paying to outreach to Muslim countries should directly correspond to the funding NASA has in its budget for this. The funding amount is zero, so any outreach by the NASA Administrator to the Muslim world should only be incidental and as necessary within the scope of a specific program. It should not be a "top three" priority.

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=Lotus;711413]I didn't give you a feel-good argument for the sake of it. I gave you an argument based on serious research. I even pointed out who some of the world-recognized experts on the issues are. In other words, I gave you an educated, reasoned argument.

As the old saying goes, "know thy enemy." While experts can be wrong, most of them are right more often. I'm going to learn from them.[/quote]
It appears many experts agree we should "know our enemy" and acknowledge it.

[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/12/critics-argue-dropping-talk-islamic-radicalism-say-threat-needs-defined/"]FOXNews.com - Terror Experts Blast Obama Move to Drop References to Islamic Extremism[/URL]

From the link:
(Sen. Joe) "Lieberman raised the issue in a letter to the White House, saying that "the failure to identify our enemy for what it is — violent Islamist extremism — is offensive and contradicts thousands of years of accepted military and intelligence doctrine to 'know your enemy.'"

Re: Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World
 

[quote=dmek25;711387]and...
Obama said after the inauguration that he hoped to close Guantanamo within one year, and administration officials admit they won't make that deadline. During the campaign, Obama gave himself no such deadline, and we're judging him here on his campaign promises. He said he would close Guantanamo Bay, and concrete steps are being taken to do so. The promise remains In the Works.[/quote]

I still say in two years from now when we are getting geared up for elections Gitmo will still be open.