Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

[quote=GreekSkin;733536]I'm confused, hasnt it been one game? Didnt he have a good pre-season?

How about we just wait and see...[/quote]

I would agree...however, what I don't get was all the love for this guy, then he gets targeted 5 times, 2 in the end zone (1 VERY catchable) and ends up with only 1 catch for 11 yards? Why are we even targeting him in the endzone anyway? We target a no body like Armstrong twice in the endzone on the same designed play, but not once target Davis who is 6'4"?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not only calling out Armstrong, I am calling out the play calling.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;733708]On point comments:

1. Armstrong should have caught the first fade pass. If he wants to play in the NFL, he'd better start making the plays he needs to make. I'm not throwing him under the bus. He just needs to make the tough catches to stick.

2. I think that using Devin Thomas, who has a longer reach and good hands, might have been a good choice for that play. Nevertheless, I admit that I don't know how well (or poorly) Devin runs that play. Fred Davis could have been used there, as well.

Related comments:

1. Our WR corps is weak. Very weak. We need to stop kidding ourselves about that.

2. If Vincent Jackson's suspension is reduced to three games on Thursday, then Shanahan should offer SD his left nut in trade for Vincent. He would solve part of our WR problems.

3. If the Skins don't trust Brandon Banks enough to use him as a KR or WR, they might as well put him on the taxi squad and bring up Terrence Austin who I think can play WR in this league.[/quote]

You're absolutely right.

What is going on with Banks anyway...I liked that kid in the preseason. He has major speed and he can make our return game explosive. Then again, who knows really.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

[quote=pg86;733626]I am with you he needed to catch that but first off Mike Knows that he should of called a better route than that on the second try second He's a rookie, third that corner was hanging all over him its only uncatchable when their hanging on your neck like a drunk girl at a bar.[/quote]

Depends on what you consider a rookie. He's a rookie in terms of playing time, but you are aware he was signed by the Dolphins and couldn't crack their lineup last year right? He was signed by the Dolphins in July of 08. Singed to the Dolphins practice squad in Sept 08. Signed to the Dolphins January 09. So it's not like he hasn't been around NFL football. He's 27 and wasn't able to crack the Dolphins lineup for a reason, and he was targeted 5 times vs the cowboys and ony caught 1 pass for a reason.
I do agree the second ball was not catchable, but his route running was suspect as well. I just don't see why people are impressed with this kid. I don't see the potential apparently. Keep in mind, it's not like he didn't play football professionally, he played for Odessa and Dallas (desperados).

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

[quote=jsarno;734658]You're absolutely right.

What is going on with Banks anyway...I liked that kid in the preseason. He has major speed and he can make our return game explosive. Then again, who knows really.[/quote]

They're probably letting him work on holding onto the ball before putting him in a real game. He fumbled once for each great return...literally.

DT was great. By the time he works his way into the starting lineup, Banks will probably get onto return duties.

I'm guessing Roydell will be the odd man out when these two get promoted.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

[quote=jsarno;734658]You're absolutely right.

What is going on with Banks anyway...I liked that kid in the preseason. He has major speed and he can make our return game explosive. Then again, who knows really.[/quote]

The difference between KC and the Redskins is the Cheifs have to let their young rookies play. Dexter McCluster and Javier Arrenas are rookies but they made a huge impact in the win over San Diego. The Redskins think they have a chance to win this season so they rather play it safe by playing Galloway,instead of Thomas at WR. Also not letting Brandon Banks return KR or PR. Rookies will make mistakes at times but sometimes when you have speed and young legs you will get the big plays.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

I not going to give up on Armstrong yet because of 1 game but we must remember he has very limited game experence. I can not figure out why it would take 3 years for Devon Thomas to learn how to run NFL routes. They did say he was really raw coming out of Michigan St. So much for OTA's for learning how to run and study.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

I have been a Redskin fan for many years and for some odd reason we have not had much success drafting wide receivers. The most successful WR we have drafted that I can remember was Art Monk ( Hall Of Famer ). We have drafted over the years at wr people like Desmond Howard ( Michigan) , Michael Westbrook ( Colorado) , Taylor Jacobs ( Florida), Rod Gardener (Clemson) Darnerian McCants, James Thrash (Missouri Southern), Albert Connel ( Texas AM). We have traded for such wr as L. Coles, and S. Moss. We have signed free agents wr Brandon LLoyd , ARE, Andre Reed, Keenan McCardell, Irving Fryer, Gary Clark, Henry Ellard, players at the end of their careers. I did not include Ricky Sanders , Virgil Seay , Charlie Brown, Charlie Taylor just to name a few more because that was so long ago.

Like I was saying we have not done well drafting wr such as more recent Malcom Kelly, Devon Thomas, Marko Mitchell. When will this curse end? So now we have fans looking to trade for another teams wr Vincent Jackson , I guess it maybe wiser to trade for VJ than to waste another pick on a WR.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

I mean, it's hit or miss..you have to get that special guy who produces after he gets paid. Most people get hit with all that money and they think that's it...they've hit the TOP. You have to find that Jerry Rice who continues to work hard and better himself and be the best.

Hard to tell who will do what, everybody will BS you till you are blue in the face....


anybody else remember a certain Hayne$worth saying, it's not about the money...I want to be the best ever.

... well how is he turning out for us so far?

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

but I say winning cures all!

I'm so happy D Thomas is returning PUNTS. cause he's a CUNT!

Loving the Shanny ERA! Just what this team needs! He doesn't give a shit where you are drafted, if you show up and play hard...you'll get in the game....no matter what round you were drafted...cough cough..DT. He's the tough love this teams need in an ERA where people only care about MONEY.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

when did DT return a punt?

how loaded are you right now lol

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

[quote=skins89moss;734836]I have been a Redskin fan for many years and for some odd reason we have not had much success drafting wide receivers. The most successful WR we have drafted that I can remember was Art Monk ( Hall Of Famer ). We have drafted over the years at wr people like Desmond Howard ( Michigan) , Michael Westbrook ( Colorado) , Taylor Jacobs ( Florida), Rod Gardener (Clemson) Darnerian McCants, James Thrash (Missouri Southern), Albert Connel ( Texas AM). [B]We have traded for such wr as [/B]L. Coles, and S. Moss. We have signed free agents wr Brandon LLoyd , ARE, Andre Reed, [B]Keenan McCardell[/B], Irving Fryer, Gary Clark, Henry Ellard, players at the end of their careers. I did not include Ricky Sanders , Virgil Seay , Charlie Brown, Charlie Taylor just to name a few more because that was so long ago.

Like I was saying we have not done well drafting wr such as more recent Malcom Kelly, Devon Thomas, Marko Mitchell. When will this curse end? So now we have fans looking to trade for another teams wr Vincent Jackson , I guess it maybe wiser to trade for VJ than to waste another pick on a WR.[/quote]

Actually we drafted Keenan McCardell out of college. One of the rare good picks by Charlie Casserly.

You're correct though, our track record at drafting wideouts has been about as good as our track record for drafting quarterbacks.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

:lol:

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

[quote=tootergray34;734844]but I say winning cures all!

I'm so happy D Thomas is returning PUNTS. cause he's a CUNT!

Loving the Shanny ERA! Just what this team needs! He doesn't give a shit where you are drafted, if you show up and play hard...you'll get in the game....no matter what round you were drafted...cough cough..DT. He's the tough love this teams need in an ERA where people only care about MONEY.[/quote]

****ing moron. If you want to trash someone, at least know what they are actually doing. #31 is returning punts for us. Also, please learn the difference between being ignorant and being malicious, and Devin was more likely be the former than the latter.

Not only that, he did well in kick returns and you call him a freaking vagina. Jealous?

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

well duh! cunt doesn't rhyme with kick return!

how are you people defending this turd? he has done NOTHING for us...nothing. Wow, he's returned some kicks for us...so....banks is taking over that when he returns.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;734857]Actually we drafted Keenan McCardell out of college. One of the rare good picks by Charlie Casserly.

You're correct though, our track record at drafting wideouts has been about as good as our track record for drafting quarterbacks.[/quote]

I agree with you on wr's and qb's, but Casserly had a lot of great picks. Probably more with Houston than Skins (Mario Williams, Andre Johnson, Demarco Ryans, etc...) but when he drafted Champ Bailey and still got all of the Saints picks so they could get Ricky Williams he did an outstanding job.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

[quote=tootergray34;734890]well duh! cunt doesn't rhyme with kick return!

how are you people defending this turd? he has done NOTHING for us...nothing. Wow, he's returned some kicks for us...so....banks is taking over that when he returns.[/quote]Yeah, because some of us are optimistic that Shanny's new attitude will wake him up completely and he'll produce.

Meanwhile, you heap praise on Shanny's new atttiude but then proceed to implicitly trash him by heavily implying that Devin is hopeless and shouldn't even be on the team.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

[quote=tootergray34;734890]well duh! cunt doesn't rhyme with kick return!

how are you people defending this turd? he has done NOTHING for us...nothing. Wow, he's returned some kicks for us...so....banks is taking over that when he returns.[/quote]

on KR? probably not

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

I think that the Redskins and their fans still have the mindset of instant gratification. We have to develop this young talent that we have here. Look at philly, the reason that their young recievers are so good is because Andy Reid left himself with no other options. It was the young guys had to get good or else we suck. Our guys have to have the opportunity in gameday situations to develop and grow. That means we need to make it a priority to throw to them frequently. Get them in the game and let them develop confidence.

Dallas made it a priority to try to get Dez Bryant the ball. It may have caused them to get a loss up front against us, but it let Dez know that he is "their guy". The redskins don't do that. I feel that right now we should make it a priority to get Armstrong, Davis, and Thomas the ball frequently in game day situations. Until we give our young guys a chance we will never have good receivers here. I also think we should resign Marko and give him a shot to develop as well.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

Guys,
I agree throwing to the least experienced small WR on a fade in the endzone was probably not the best choice...but the reality is this....when you have a really fast WR opposite Moss, it opens up the game for him and others to get open...regardless if he can catch or not....so lets not just look at his individual numbers, lets look at the impact of having a fast WR does to our overall ability to get the ball to Moss and TE's....

What I saw was that Moss was a lot more open that he has been in a while.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

I disagree with M Westbrook and Albert Connell being bad choices, as they did end up producing late in their stay with us. The Turner era was rather "funky" as the ownership of the franchise, was up in the air for the most part, and we didn't have a D coordinator worth a damn. On top of that you got stuck with the Shuler disaster that put a 7th round QB as our starter. Although Westbrook got banged up often, he still was a lot more servicable that Jacobs and Kelly. I also am not sure Rod Gardner was a waste either since he also did produce for us, but never was a TO, Ocho type like we hoped. THe problem with these guys basically is we have been in rebuilding mode constantly for going on 2 decades.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;734920][B]I think that the Redskins and their fans still have the mindset of instant gratification. [/B]We have to develop this young talent that we have here. Look at philly, the reason that their young recievers are so good is because Andy Reid left himself with no other options. It was the young guys had to get good or else we suck. Our guys have to have the opportunity in gameday situations to develop and grow. That means we need to make it a priority to throw to them frequently. Get them in the game and let them develop confidence.

Dallas made it a priority to try to get Dez Bryant the ball. It may have caused them to get a loss up front against us, but it let Dez know that he is "their guy". The redskins don't do that. I feel that right now we should make it a priority to get Armstrong, Davis, and Thomas the ball frequently in game day situations. Until we give our young guys a chance we will never have good receivers here. I also think we should resign Marko and give him a shot to develop as well.[/quote]

We've waited 19 years for a return to the promise land. In this day and age you shouldn't have to wait that long to get yourself back on the championship track. The New Orleans Saints went from 3-13 in 2005 to Super Bowl champs in four years.

Not only that, this team, the coaching staff and the front office have taken the "win now" approach. There's no rebuilding here. There's no time for the "young talent" to develop. In fact, this is an older team -- there's not much in the way of "young talent" to begin with.

Marko Mitchell had his chance. He has seen the ball in regular season play, has been invited to minicamps, and played in preseason. He's bounced around from team to team this year and coaching staffs haven't found a reason to keep him. He's had chance after chance to make an impact.

Let go of him. He's done.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;734965]We've waited 19 years for a return to the promise land. In this day and age you shouldn't have to wait that long to get yourself back on the championship track. The New Orleans Saints went from 3-13 in 2005 to Super Bowl champs in four years.

Not only that, this team, the coaching staff and the front office have taken the "win now" approach. There's no rebuilding here. There's no time for the "young talent" to develop. In fact, this is an older team -- there's not much in the way of "young talent" to begin with.

Marko Mitchell had his chance. He has seen the ball in regular season play, has been invited to minicamps, and played in preseason. He's bounced around from team to team this year and coaching staffs haven't found a reason to keep him. He's had chance after chance to make an impact.

Let go of him. He's done.[/quote]

Those 19 years were not necessarily defined by an ipassive FO, especially after Snyder took over.

Basically, there are a 1000 football cliches that are half-truths, but if you want to cling to those instead of concrete economic principles, then I'm glad that you aren't running any football team.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

Dude what the hell are you talking about?

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;734976]Dude what the hell are you talking about?[/quote]
Four years is ample time to grab talent steadily through the draft and develop them. In fact, the litmus test for WRs is only three years [B]at most[/B] and there should be flashes of talent within the first and second years. You look at the Saints roster, and there's a whole load of players they groomed from the time they drafted them or picked up as UDFA.
Draft well to build the team and draft well to keep the team good. Use FA and trades to fill up any remaining holes or snatch unexpected windfalls. I doubt you'll see any team who does NOT follow this mantra actually make it to the Super Bowl.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;734985]Four years is ample time to grab talent steadily through the draft and develop them. In fact, the litmus test for WRs is only three years [B]at most[/B] and there should be flashes of talent within the first and second years. You look at the Saints roster, and there's a whole load of players they groomed from the time they drafted them or picked up as UDFA.
Draft well to build the team and draft well to keep the team good. Use FA and trades to fill up any remaining holes or snatch unexpected windfalls. I doubt you'll any team who does NOT follow this mantra and actually make it to the Super Bowl.[/quote]


Amen to that!!!!! We have been using draft picks as bargaining chips to get high priced FAs that usually don't deliver the rate of return on our "investment". For over a decade we have been in this win now mode using draft picks to secure free agent skilled players or linemen instead of using the picks to actually get young talent that can be developed. How the hell can you develop talent, always changing coaching staffs and schemes? Using FAs should be used to fill remaining gaps like you have said, that the draft couldn't cover. We have only been fully utilizing Free agency and have hampered our drafts significantly, thus any rebuilding effort is stymied.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;734986]Amen to that!!!!! We have been using draft picks as bargaining chips to get high priced FAs that usually don't deliver the rate of return on our "investment". For over a decade we have been in this win now mode using draft picks to secure free agent skilled players or linemen instead of using the picks to actually get young talent that can be developed. How the hell can you develop talent, always changing coaching staffs and schemes? Using FAs should be used to fill remaining gaps like you have said, that the draft couldn't cover. We have only been fully utilizing Free agency and have hampered our drafts significantly, thus any rebuilding effort is stymied.[/quote]
I do not count traded players as free agents as they are not really "free". However, "established" in the NFL is absolutely NOT synonymous with "risk-free".

Every player transaction carries some risk; it's just that if you usually flame out on a draft pick you just lose the pick and the cheap contract you gave the rookie. Flame out on a "well-paid" FA and you lose out on more money, cap room, and possibly a cheaper alternative. Flame out on a "big-name" trade like Brandon Lloyd and you lose out on cap room, picks for potential future players, and whoever would have been on the roster spot instead of the traded player.

Not that one should NEVER touch trades or FA, but they should be used for finding role players or windfalls like Brees, Reggie White, Cutler, etc. It definitely should not be every season, "let's just grab the top FAs and make a big trade this year at all costs". Even someone playing freaking Madden(at least the ancient Madden 2002) could see that the top FAs for an offseason may not go over a rating of 80 and/or are overpriced and old.

Re: Armstrong bad choice?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;734857]Actually we drafted Keenan McCardell out of college. One of the rare good picks by Charlie Casserly.

You're correct though, our track record at drafting wideouts has been about as good as our track record for drafting quarterbacks.[/quote]

Your right we had McCardell but we did not see his potential so we released him.