Commanders Post at The Warpath

Commanders Post at The Warpath (http://www.thewarpath.net/forum.php)

- Parking Lot (http://www.thewarpath.net/forumdisplay.php?f=7)

- - Tupac or Biggie (http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=39532)

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=hooskins;754838]What would say about songs like Changes(Tupac)? Just ignore those, huh?[/quote]

I'm guessing that is not a bad song so I guess 1 out of 20 makes his music OK. I know most kids know better but you cannot tell me the inner city kids with no guidance are not influenced by these guys. Even some kids with guidance are influenced by them. I just don't understand gloifing what they do and are about.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=Mattyk;754844]Irrelevant.

I can appreciate the art even though I may not agree with the lifestyle of the artist. Again we're talking about two separate things.[/quote]

I understand that you can listen to their music and not be influenced but there are kids with no guidance in life or little guidance that cannot. Why not use their wrap to draw kids away from that life style instead of into that life style. I mean how many videos can one watch with a nice car, hot chick, and a fist full of money.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=firstdown;754853]I understand that you can listen to their music and not be influenced [B]but there are kids with no guidance in life or little guidance that cannot[/B]. Why not use their wrap to draw kids away from that life style instead of into that life style. I mean how many videos can one watch with a nice car, hot chick, and a fist full of money.[/quote]

That's an issue much bigger than music, and not something a song or video is going to fix.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

Tupac, I don't care what he claimed he was from the east coast.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

No one, is perfect but when it comes to music Pac is as close as it gets. He is poet and if anyone liking his music bothers you that's on you.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=firstdown;754853]I understand that you can listen to their music and not be influenced but there are kids with no guidance in life or little guidance that cannot. Why not use their wrap to draw kids away from that life style instead of into that life style. I mean how many videos can one watch with a nice car, hot chick, and a fist full of money.[/quote]

Maybe you should have listened to more hip-hop so you would know how to spell and understand homonyms. Wrap? Seriously?

Anyhow, completely disagree with your generic post about their music.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=Buster;754825]Can we really separate them? Their lyrics included the same glorification of drugs, sex, murder and violence as their lifestyles.

[URL="http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/t/tupac/ambitionz_az_a_ridah.html"]Tupac - Ambitionz Az A Ridah Lyrics[/URL]

[URL="http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/t/tupac/enemies_with_me.html"]Tupac - Enemies With Me Lyrics[/URL]

[URL="http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/n/notorious_big/dead_wrong.html"]Notorious B.i.g. - Dead Wrong Lyrics[/URL]

[URL="http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/n/notorious_big/gimme_the_loot.html"]Notorious B.i.g. - Gimme The Loot Lyrics[/URL][/quote]

Agreed, you can't really separate music and there lives. Jim Morrison was a great musician but also a drunk and it cost him his life. These guys are ultra talented but we should glorify them realizing the affect they have on their fans. Yes, kid's are influenced by these guys, just as fans were influenced by Jim Morrison just for example.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=SmootSmack;754898]Maybe you should have listened to more hip-hop so you would know how to spell and understand homonyms. Wrap? Seriously?

Anyhow, completely disagree with your generic post about their music.[/quote]
You know I have said in the past over and over my spelling sucks it gets old. That seems to be the best you can do anymore is to point out my spelling so don't read my post.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=SmootSmack;754898]Maybe you should have listened to more hip-hop so you would know how to spell and understand homonyms. Wrap? Seriously?

Anyhow, completely disagree with your generic post about their music.[/quote]

You're not going to bash this toileting of the English language too?

[quote=saden1;754876]No one, is perfect but when it comes to music Pac is as close as it gets. [B]He is poet and if anyone liking his music bothers you that's on you.[/B][/quote]

He is poet. :D

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=firstdown;754912]You know I have said in the past over and over my spelling sucks it gets old. That seems to be the best you can do anymore is to point out my spelling so don't read my post.[/quote]

It's just remarkable to me, is all. Half the time I think you must be doing it on purpose.

But I read your post and, as has been stated elsewhere here, you probably didn't pay enough attention to many of their lyrics. And that's fine, maybe you're not a fan. But if you're going to blast them for basically "glorifying a thug life" you should maybe pay more attention to what they actually said. Here are two guys who fought poverty, single parent homes, and crime-ridden streets and used their talents to build/try to build a better life for themselves and their families. Actually sounds like a lot of Redskins players

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=SmootSmack;754918]It's just remarkable to me, is all. Half the time I think you must be doing it on purpose.

But I read your post and, as has been stated elsewhere here, you probably didn't pay enough attention to many of their lyrics. And that's fine, maybe you're not a fan. But if you're going to blast them for basically "glorifying a thug life" you should maybe pay more attention to what they actually said. Here are two guys who fought poverty, single parent homes, and crime-ridden streets and used their talents to build/try to build a better life for themselves and their families. [B]Actually sounds like a lot of Redskins players[/B][/quote]
OK, so I spelled it "wrap" it was before lunch and I was hungry.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=Buster;754825]Can we really separate them? Their lyrics included the same glorification of drugs, sex, murder and violence as their lifestyles.

[URL="http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/t/tupac/ambitionz_az_a_ridah.html"]Tupac - Ambitionz Az A Ridah Lyrics[/URL]

[URL="http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/t/tupac/enemies_with_me.html"]Tupac - Enemies With Me Lyrics[/URL]

[URL="http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/n/notorious_big/dead_wrong.html"]Notorious B.i.g. - Dead Wrong Lyrics[/URL]

[URL="http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/n/notorious_big/gimme_the_loot.html"]Notorious B.i.g. - Gimme The Loot Lyrics[/URL][/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]A lot of movies and video games do the same. You guys sound like [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Joe Lieberman. Although their lyrics may not depict wholesome family fun in my mind anything they may say is still safer then censorship. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=mlmdub130;753625]seriously???? how many times do i have to tell u [SIZE=5][B]IT'S MURDA![/B][/SIZE] ja rule fo lyfe bitch[/quote]

Yeah, everyone knows Ja is the realist without a doubt, but this thread is just about Pac & Big.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=Tupac] "Hit 'Em Up"

[Tupac]
I ain't got no mother****ing friends
That's why I ****ed your bitch
You're fat mother****er {Take Money}
West Side
Bad Boy Killers {Take Money}
You know who the realist is
niggas we bring it to {Take Money}
(ha ha, that's alright)

First off, **** your bitch
And the click you claim
West side when we ride
Come equipped with game
You claim to be a player
But I ****ed your wife
We bust on Bad Boys
niggas **** for Life
Plus Puffy tryin' to see me weak
Hearts I rip
Biggie Smalls and Junior Mafia
Some mark ass bitches
We keep on coming
While we running for your jewels
Steady gunning
Keep on busting at them fools
You know the rules
Little Ceasar go ask you homie
How I'll leave you
Cut your young ass up
See you in pieces
Now be deceased
Little Kim,
Don't **** around with real G's
Quick to snatch your ugly ass, off the streets
So **** peace
I'll let them niggas know
It's on for Life
Don't let the west side
Ride the night (ha ha)
Bad Boys murdered on Wax and kill
**** with me
And get your caps peeled
You know, see

[Chorus:]
Grab your glocks when you see 2pac
Call the cops when you see 2pac, uh
Who shot me,
But your punks didn't finish
Now you 'bout to feel the wrath of a menace
nigga, I hit 'em up

Check this out
You mother****ers know what time it is
I don't know why I'm even on this track
You all niggas ain't even on my level
I'm going to let my little homies
Ride on you
bitch made ass Bad Boys bitches
{ah yo, yo, hold the **** up}

Get out the way yo
Get out the way yo
Biggie Smalls just got dropped
Little move pass the mac
And let me hit 'em in his back
Frank White needs to get spanked right
For setting up traps
Little accident murderers
And I ain't never heard of you
Poise less gats attack when I'm serving you
Spank the shank
Your whole style when I gank
Guard your rank
'cause I'm a slam your ass in a pang
Puffy weaker than a ****in' block
I'm running through nigga
And I'm smoking Junior Mafia
In front of you nigga
With the ready power
Tucked in my Guess
Under my Eddie Bauer
Your clout petty sour
I push packages ever hour
I hit 'em up

[Chorus]

Peep how we do it
Keep it real
Its penitentiary steel
This ain't no freestyle battle
All you niggas getting killed
With your mouths open
Tryin' to come up off of me
You and the clouds hoping
Smoking dope
It's like a Sherm high
niggas think they learned to fly
But they burn mother****er you deserve to die
Talking about you Getting Money
But it's funny to me
All you niggas living bummy
While you ****ing with me?
I'm a self made Millionaire
Thug livin', out of prison
Pistols in the Air {Air} (Ha Ha)
Biggie remember when I use to let you sleep on the couch
And beg the bitch to let you sleep in the house
Now it's all about Versace
You copied my style
Five shots couldn't drop me
I took it and smiled
Now I'm back to set the record straight
With my A-K
I'm still the thug that you love to hate
Mother-****er I'll Hit 'Em Up

I'm from N E W Jers.
Where plenty of murder occurs
No points to come
We bring drama to all you herds
Now go check the scenario
Little Ceas'
I'll bring you fake G's to your knees
Coppin' please with these scenario
Little Kim is you
Coked up or doped up
Get your little Junior Whopper click smoked up
What the ****?
Is you stupid?
I take money,
crash and mash through Brooklyn
With my click looting, shooting, and polluting your block
With fifteen shot,
Cocked glock to your knot
Outlaw Mafia click moving up another notch
And your Pop stars popped and get dropped and mopped
And all your fake ass east coast props
Brainstormed and locked

You're a beat biter
Pac style taker
I'll tell you to face, you ain't nothing shit but a faker
So fill the Alize with a chaser
'bout to get murdered for the paper
E.d.i I mean post the scene of the caper
Like a loc, with little Ceas' in a choke (uh)
Toting smoke, we ain't no mother****in' joke
Thug Life, niggas better be known
Be approaching
In the wide open, gun smoking
No need for hoping
It's a battle lost
I gottem crossed as soon as the funk is bopping off
nigga, I hit 'em up

Now you tell me who won
I see them, they run (ha ha)
They don't wanna see us
Whole Junior Mafia click
Dressing up trying to be us
How the **** they gonna be the Mob?
When we always on out job
We millionaire's
Killing ain't fair
But somebody got to do it

Oh yah Mobb Deep (uh)
You wanna **** with us
You Little young ass mother****ers
Don't one of you niggas got sickle-cell or something
You're ****ing with me, nigga?
You **** around and catch a seizure or a heart-attack
You better back the **** up
Before you get smacked the **** up
This is how we do it on our side
Any of you niggas from New York that want to bring it,
Bring it.
But we ain't singing,
We bringing drama
**** you and your mother ****ing mama.
We're gonna kill all you mother ****ers.
Now when I came out, I told you it was just about biggie.
Then everybody had to open their mouth with a mother ****ing opinion
Well this is how we gonna' do this:
**** Mobb Deep,
**** Biggie,
**** Bad Boy as a staff, record label, and as a mother ****ing crew.
And if you want to be down with Bad Boy,
Then **** you too.
Chino XL, **** you too.
All you mother ****ers,
**** you too.
(take money, take money)
All of y'all mother ****ers,
**** you, die slow mother****er.
My four four (.44 magnum) make sure all your kids don't grow.
You mother****ers can't be us or see us.
We mother ****in' Thug Life riders.
West Side till' we die.
Out here in California, nigga
We warned ya'
We'll bomb on you mother ****ers.
We do our job.
You think you the mob, nigga, we the mother****in' mob
Ain't nothing but killers
And the real niggas, all you mother****ers feel us.
Our shit goes triple and four quadruple
You niggas laugh 'cause our staff got guns under they mother****in' belts
You know how it is and we drop records they felt
You niggas can't feel it
We the realist
**** 'em.
We Bad Boy killers."
[/quote]

Rap fans, please explain the deeper meaning in the above? Perhaps explore the socio-economic take implied by "That's why I ****ed your bitch."

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]^ if someone tried to kill you and then, as young single male, you had the oppertunity to bang their hot wife would you pass up the oppertunity?[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Its like Oliver Twist asking for more porridge. Yeah he knew he wasn’t allowed to have more, but he did it anyways. Sometimes stories suck when theres no antagonist. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=mlmpetert;755071][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]^ if someone tried to kill you and then, as young single male, you had the oppertunity to bang their hot wife would you pass up the oppertunity?[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][B]Its like Oliver Twist asking for more porridge.[/B] Yeah he knew he wasn’t allowed to have more, but he did it anyways. Sometimes stories suck when theres no antagonist. [/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

no, no, no. You cannot compare Tupac f'ing Shakur to Charles Dickens. Just can't. No.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

Well if I knew the guy would shot me I don't think I'd be trying to bang his chick. I don't care how hot she is. Dead is dead in my book.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

I have always been of the opinion that gangsta rap is the equivalent of junk tv, it's a cheap, mindless form of entertainment. And there's a place for that, but don't try to sell it to me as intellectually based criticism of culture. It's exploitative and ignorant for the most part. The above being a prime example.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=BleedBurgundy;755077]I have always been of the opinion that gangsta rap is the equivalent of junk tv, it's a cheap, mindless form of entertainment. And there's a place for that, but don't try to sell it to me as intellectually based criticism of culture. It's exploitative and ignorant for the most part. The above being a prime example.[/quote]

The problem I have is that they sell the stuff to our kids as main stream. I can't blame the guy for trying to make a living but I can blame the MTV types pushing this stuff on our kids.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=mlmpetert;755019]Yeah, everyone knows Ja is the realist without a doubt, but this thread is just about Pac & Big.[/quote]

Ja Rule was freakin horrible

Re: Tupac or Biggie

Tupac...I have a book of poetry that he wrote-The Rose That Grew From Concrete... His talent was sensational!

"A coward dies a thousand deaths...A soldier dies but ONE!! "

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=chica-alisha;755089]Tupac...I have a book of poetry that he wrote-The Rose That Grew From Concrete... His talent was sensational!

[B]"A coward dies a thousand deaths...A soldier dies but ONE!! "[/B][/quote]

That was William Shakespeare in "Julius Caesar."

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=BleedBurgundy;755105]That was William Shakespeare in "Julius Caesar."[/quote]

Yeah right. Next youre going to tell me Coolio is ripping off quotes from the Bible.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

Write a poem about your struggles and see how many albums it sells. Your distaste should not be about rap it should be for the society and lifestyle that caused it. Nobody wants to be a thug and promote that lifestyle, but they can only speak of their own experiences. America gets off on tragedy because the majority of the populatation experiences and embraces it because it's all the know.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=mlmpetert;755114]Yeah right. Next youre going to tell me Coolio is ripping off quotes from the Bible.[/quote]

I'm going to assume that's sarcasm. lol.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=Angry;755115]Write a poem about your struggles and see how many albums it sells. Your distatste should not be about rap it should be for the society and lifestyle that caused it. Nobody wants to be a thug and promote that lifestyle, but they can only speak of their own experiences. [B]America gets off on tragedy because the majority of the populatation experiences and embraces it because it's all the know.[/B][/quote]

America embraces it because it's what's sold to them and we're largely a nation of sheep. Add that to the fact that there's not many better (harmless) ways for suburban white kids to piss off their parents, and it's a pretty good recipe to sell albums. Completely agree with your point about distaste for the society that produces the conditions these clowns are talking about, but let's not pretend this is high art. I don't think any form of media (music, games, etc) is going to get someone to pull a trigger they weren't already going to pull, my argument is that people glorify the music as if it has a heightened significance.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=BleedBurgundy;755117]America embraces it because it's what's sold to them and we're largely a nation of sheep. Add that to the fact that there's not many better (harmless) ways for suburban white kids to piss off their parents, and it's a pretty good recipe to sell albums. Completely agree with your point about distaste for the society that produces the conditions these clowns are talking about, but let's not pretend this is high art. I don't think any form of media (music, games, etc) is going to get someone to pull a trigger they weren't already going to pull, my argument is that people glorify the music as if it has a heightened significance.[/quote]

I don't like comparing people to sheep but since you want to go that route yes, society treats the poverty stricken level of society like sheep.

Ask yourself why urban kids want to piss their parents off. Perhaps they were wronged in one way shape or form? IDK maybe a father left when they were a child or was too drunk to take interest in his chils life, or perhaps their mother was addicted to drugs and didn't provide the proper level of attention necessary to nourish a child.

Art is a depiction of life through the narrators eyes whether it be through a visual or audio description. Just because you do not think that it is high art doesn't mean that it isn't. Again we go back to opinion and what others can relate to and or crave.

You're right, someone who is going to act on a negative impulse is going to do so regardless of influence. That is why your argument that "such behavior is glorified with a heightened significance" holds no water.

Everyday people do things that they are not proud of and have the guts to tell the tale. Some people use those examples as motivation, as we agreed, and were going to act on their own impulses anyway and others are just intrigued and informed by it.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=BleedBurgundy;755042]Rap fans, please explain the deeper meaning in the above? Perhaps explore the socio-economic take implied by "That's why I ****ed your bitch."[/quote]

It's called [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_rap"]Battle rap[/URL]. It's a form of war which is usually limited to words but it sometimes can get deadly as in the case of Pac and Biggie. Expressing your anger with words is liberating.

This isn't an empty bluster.
Buster is no better than a duster.
His posts are the most lackluster.
Vote to ouster that inbred ballbuster.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

2Pac touched me Biggie never did.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=Valleyranchgirl;755137]2Pac touched me Biggie never did.[/quote]

Hope your shots are up to date...

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=saden1;755123]It's called [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_rap"]Battle rap[/URL]. It's a form of war which is usually limited to words but it sometimes can get deadly as in the case of Pac and Biggie. Expression your anger with words is liberating.

This isn't an empty bluster.
Buster is no better than a duster.
His posts are the most lackluster.
Vote to ouster that inbred ballbuster.[/quote]

Right, which is where I get the fact that it's entertaining... wouldn't/couldn't argue that it's not, hell it's not like i never listen to it nor have any in my collection, but none of that means it has any deeper meaning than any other pop song out there. People always try to defend the genre by saying it's a look into the issues facing inner-city culture, but I don't buy that. I think it just exploits human nature in that we all listen to stories involving conflict. But it doesn't inspire anyone, which is what art is supposed to do. I think that's the crux of my argument: it's entertainment, not art.

[quote=Angry;755121][B]I don't like comparing people to sheep but since you want to go that route yes, society treats the poverty stricken level of society like sheep.[/B]

Ask yourself why urban kids want to piss their parents off. Perhaps they were wronged in one way shape or form? IDK maybe a father left when they were a child or was too drunk to take interest in his chils life, or perhaps their mother was addicted to drugs and didn't provide the proper level of attention necessary to nourish a child.

Art is a depiction of life through the narrators eyes whether it be through a visual or audio description. Just because you do not think that it is high art doesn't mean that it isn't. Again we go back to opinion and what others can relate to and or crave.

Your right, someone who is going to act on a negative impulse is going to do so regardless of influence. That is why your argument that "such behavior is glorified with a heightened significance" holds no water.

Everyday people do things that they are not proud of and have the guts to tell the tale. Some people use those examples as motivation, as we agreed, and were going to act on their own impulses anyway and others are just intrigued and informed by it.[/quote]

When I say people are sheep, i'm referring to the majority of consumers slurping up whatever they are told is hot, be it music, IT hardware, or whatever.

Your last paragraph is nonsense, imo. These clowns are not speaking "from the heart" they're speaking from the wallet. They know that the more vulgar, the more violent, the more extreme they get, the better that shit sells. They'e not trying to inspire anyone, and if you believe that they are, I think you're either kidding yourself or you've got a whole lot more faith in people than I think they deserve.

I never said "the behavior was glorified by a heightened significance." What I said was that people claim the music has a heightened significance, meaning claiming that there is a deeper meaning to it all than just your average song.

I have no issue with the genre, I just find it disingenuous when people feel the need to point to supposedly deeper interpretations when in fact, it mostly appeals to our baser instincts. That's not a bad thing necessarily.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

Who looks at a painting and says "I want to do that"? Who draws inspiration from that painting to mimic what they see? Hardly anyone does that. On the other hand who looks at a painting and says "that is magnificant". It all comes down to taste. You just don't have a tase for Gangsta rap. That is no different from someone who says that they might like nudity in a painting but to depict sodomy is taking it too far.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

Most rap is utter trash and like with everything you have to look harder to find the gems.

Take this for example...there's nothing deep about it but it is one of the most awesome songs ever.

[YT]2ImZTwYwCug[/YT]

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=Angry;755176]Who looks at a painting and says "I want to do that"? Who draws inspiration from that painting to mimic what they see? Hardly anyone does that. On the other hand who looks at a painting and says "that is magnificant". It all comes down to taste. You just don't have a tase for Gangsta rap. That is no different from someone who says that they might like nudity in a painting but to depict sodomy is taking it too far.[/quote]

If you can depict sodomy in such a way as to evoke inspiration, then more power to you. I guess I'm just saying you guys are claiming way more noble intentions than exist. That's a judgement call, but it's what my cynical nature leads me to believe.

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=saden1;755180]Most rap is utter trash and like with everything you have to look harder to find the gems.

Take this for example...there's nothing deep about it but it is one of the most awesome songs ever.

[YT]2ImZTwYwCug[/YT][/quote]

LOL. Well, yeah, even white boys got to shout...

Re: Tupac or Biggie

[quote=Angry;755188][B]Nevermind[/B][/quote]

For the record, I tried to click on the link. lol.