Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;773190]Is that a real stat if so where can I find it?[/quote]It's not official, but the networks keep it and put it up during the games. It's also in the play by play.

I have 9 holds plus one illegal block in the back (functionally, a hold) on Orakpo this year. Haynesworth is second on our team with 3.

This isn't current, but it was accurate for the league as of Week 13:

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2010/2010-hits-and-hurries]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 Hits and Hurries[/url]

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

Does anybody think they will go out and get T.O or R.Moss. i wouldn't put it past them

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=newticketholder;773222]Does anybody think they will go out and get T.O or R.Moss. i wouldn't put it past them[/quote]

Considering they passed on them once already, don't see why they would be interested now.

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=Skins4L;773188]We need to cut everybody besides:

London Fletcher
Brian Orakpo
DeAngelo Hall
LaRon Landry
Reed Doughty
Trent Williams
Ma'ake Kemoeatu
Anthony Armstrong
Santana Moss
Brandon Banks
Keiland Williams
Chris Cooley
Fred Davis
Lichtensteiger

Our Team officially is a joke these days.
This circus we call a franchise is making me sick.
Haynesworth/McNabb Trade+Benching?
We should pick up another talented player and just bench them too..
nobodys gonna wanna play here[/quote]

So we would need to draft/sign 38 players? Actually way more than that to fill out a training camp roster. We CAN'T just dump everyone and try to start over, we dont have enough draft picks to do anything approaching this. Please do not give me the whole trade Haynesworth, DM and Cooley for draft picks. Out of those only Cooley would get us anything above a 4th.

This is going to take a few years to get right, and that is only if Shanny/Allen is the right duo to do this. If you aren't on board for that then that's fine, no one is saying you have to watch them rebuild. Feel free to hop off the bandwagon until they are good again. This mini rant is directed at you really either but at the mind set that we somehow need to be a playoff team next year.

As for a list of players we need to keep, I will leave that to the people who are far more familiar with the back up talent on this team than I am. Anyway thats my $.02

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;773151]How does Orakpo not get any calls when Ware, Allen and Harrison get every holding call??? It's bull shit, I swear sometimes I think the refs just hate us.. I know that sounds dumb and like I'm a crybaby but cmon[/quote]

I know -- it's infuriating. For the first time since the days of Dexter Manley and Charles Mann, we FINALLY get a bonafide pass rushing demon, but the guy gets held constantly and we rarely get the calls.

It's like we cannot f*cking win.

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=newticketholder;773222]Does anybody think they will go out and get T.O or R.Moss. i wouldn't put it past them[/quote]

With Cerrato and X coach, yes. With Bruce and Shanny, nopers.

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=newticketholder;773222]Does anybody think they will go out and get T.O or R.Moss. i wouldn't put it past them[/quote]

I think at this point absolutely not. Id bring in Vincent Jackson or draft AJ Green and extend our own Moss which I think he would be a reasonable price. Moss and TO want top money...which is laughable IMO.

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

This guys should be on the roster for 2011:

[B]Offense[/B]

QB-Grossman, Beck (trade McNabb)
RB-Williams, Torain, Davis, Portis (as a 3rd down back and reduced contract)
FB-Young
WR-Moss, Banks, Austin, Armstrong, Kelly
TE-Cooley, Paulsen (Trade Davis if possible)
OL-TWilliams, Lichtensteiger, Montgomery, Heyer, Cook, MWilliams (if he can come back) Brown (if he can sign a reasonable contract) Capers.
LS-Sundberg or upgrade

[B]Defense[/B]

DL-Bryant, Carriker, Golston, Rob Jackson, Jarmon Trade Haynesworth
LB- Orakpo, Alexander, Wilson, Riley, Fletcher, McIntosh, Helton, (trade Blades if possible)
S-Landry, Moore, Russell, Doughty, Horton
CB-Rogers, Barnes, Westbrook, (trade Hall while he has value being voted to pro-bowl and his big contract) Sign CBailey if possible.
K-Gano
P-find one

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

Here's who I want back from the intended direction of the thread (non free agents at their current contract rates):

Kevin Barnes
DeAngelo Hall
LaRon Landry
Brian Orakpo
Lorenzo Alexander
Anthony Bryant
Jeremy Jarmon
Adam Carriker
Graham Gano
Trent Williams
Kory Lichtensteiger
Will Montgomery
Artis Hicks
Chris Cooley
Fred Davis
Logan Paulsen
Anthony Armstrong
Brandon Banks
Ryan Torrain
Keiland Williams
Rob Jackson
Terrence Austin
Perry Riley
Mike Williams
Erik Cook
Selvish Capers
John Beck
Kareem Moore (as a backup)

I think it's time to move past the Portis era in DC. I don't know if Torrain is a 16 game starting RB or if we find someone to pair with him but I've seen enough to know that I'm good with him on the roster and rotation next year. People forget Mike Williams signed a 3 year contract extension before having to miss the season with his heart ailment. If they have that resolved, he could be a valuable piece of the OL as a G or backup T.

On the defensive side, I would be fine with a complete (other than Orakpo) overhaul of our LB corp. Fletcher isn't really suited for the 3-4 and McIntosh isn't either. Riley has shown some flashes both positive and negative but he goes full speed and will learn by experience. Our DL needs a revamp also but if we went into 2011 with Bryant and Carriker as 2 starters it wouldn't be the end of the world. In the secondary, bring back Hall and Landry (from this list) and fill in the rest. I've got 28 coming back, only 2 (Bryant & M. Williams) 30 or older.

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=Paintrain;773292]Here's who I want back from the intended direction of the thread (non free agents at their current contract rates):

Kevin Barnes
DeAngelo Hall
LaRon Landry
Brian Orakpo
Lorenzo Alexander
Anthony Bryant
Jeremy Jarmon
Adam Carriker
Graham Gano
Trent Williams
Kory Lichtensteiger
Will Montgomery
Artis Hicks
Chris Cooley
Fred Davis
Logan Paulsen
Anthony Armstrong
Brandon Banks
Ryan Torrain
Keiland Williams
Rob Jackson
Terrence Austin
Perry Riley
Mike Williams
Erik Cook
Selvish Capers
John Beck
Kareem Moore (as a backup)

I think it's time to move past the Portis era in DC. I don't know if Torrain is a 16 game starting RB or if we find someone to pair with him but I've seen enough to know that I'm good with him on the roster and rotation next year. People forget Mike Williams signed a 3 year contract extension before having to miss the season with his heart ailment. If they have that resolved, he could be a valuable piece of the OL as a G or backup T.

On the defensive side, I would be fine with a complete (other than Orakpo) overhaul of our LB corp. Fletcher isn't really suited for the 3-4 and McIntosh isn't either. Riley has shown some flashes both positive and negative but he goes full speed and will learn by experience. Our DL needs a revamp also but if we went into 2011 with Bryant and Carriker as 2 starters it wouldn't be the end of the world. In the secondary, bring back Hall and Landry (from this list) and fill in the rest. I've got 28 coming back, only 2 (Bryant & M. Williams) 30 or older.[/quote]

So realistically how do you propose we fill 25 spots that have been cut to make our 53 man roster? I realize we need to purge a lot of the roster we currently have but making that many sweeping changes is absurd. We would be worse than we were this year.

When Raheem Morris overhauled the Bucs they released linebackers Derrick Brooks and Cato June, wide receivers Joey Galloway and Ike Hilliard, and running back Warrick Dunn. All over the age of 30. At the time people crapped on the move saying they would have no leadership and veteran experience. We do need to cut a lot of the older players. But not just about EVERY player. Look at the Bucs now, making a playoff run...

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=SkinzWin;773305]So realistically how do you propose we fill 25 spots that have been cut to make our 53 man roster? I realize we need to purge a lot of the roster we currently have but making that many sweeping changes is absurd. We would be worse than we were this year.

When Raheem Morris overhauled the Bucs they released linebackers Derrick Brooks and Cato June, wide receivers Joey Galloway and Ike Hilliard, and running back Warrick Dunn. All over the age of 30. At the time people crapped on the move saying they would have no leadership and veteran experience. We do need to cut a lot of the older players. But not just about EVERY player. Look at the Bucs now, making a playoff run...[/quote]

If you read the top of my post AND the OP, the question was who would you bring back next year at their current contract number. My list doesn't include players that are free agents that I would want to bring back (Rex, Moss, Holliday, Jammal Brown, Heyer, Golston, Wilson, Buchanon) or Kelly who is on the IR. That's 9 more players up to 36. You figure we are going to be aggressive in free agency and add 4-8 more players plus adding in 7 (or more) draft picks, there you go. No-one is talking about a tear down to scraps and build from there, although looking at Tampa and KC makes me more willing to consider it!

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=Paintrain;773332]If you read the top of my post AND the OP, the question was who would you bring back next year at their current contract number. My list doesn't include players that are free agents that I would want to bring back (Rex, Moss, Holliday, Jammal Brown, Heyer, Golston, Wilson, Buchanon) or Kelly who is on the IR. That's 9 more players up to 36. You figure we are going to be aggressive in free agency and add 4-8 more players plus adding in 7 (or more) draft picks, there you go. No-one is talking about a tear down to scraps and build from there, although looking at Tampa and KC makes me more willing to consider it![/quote]

We're going to have to build from the bare bones eventually whether we want to or not considering that we constantly eschew the least costly method of obtaining talent(Holding onto HIGH round picks) for "sure things" that are actually risky and do not allow for mulligans like the least costly method does. You flame out on a 2nd rounder. Fine. Next year you can pick again and you may still get solid depth or allow or cut the guy and UDFA/low rounder a chance. You flame out on McNabb, Jason Taylor, etc and you aren't even left with a depth player and could have filled the roster spot with a cheap UDFA or role-player from FA for the same amount of production.

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=Paintrain;773332]If you read the top of my post AND the OP, the question was who would you bring back next year at their current contract number. My list doesn't include players that are free agents that I would want to bring back (Rex, Moss, Holliday, Jammal Brown, Heyer, Golston, Wilson, Buchanon) or Kelly who is on the IR. That's 9 more players up to 36. You figure we are going to be aggressive in free agency and add 4-8 more players plus adding in 7 (or more) draft picks, there you go. No-one is talking about a tear down to scraps and build from there, although looking at Tampa and KC makes me more willing to consider it![/quote]

Yep, failed to see that tidbit. Still would be a big undertaking. I'm not saying you're wrong. We do need a big overhaul.

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;773339]We're going to have to build from the bare bones eventually whether we want to or not considering that we constantly eschew the least costly method of obtaining talent(Holding onto HIGH round picks) for "sure things" that are actually risky and do not allow for mulligans like the least costly method does. You flame out on a 2nd rounder. Fine. Next year you can pick again and you may still get solid depth or allow or cut the guy and UDFA/low rounder a chance. You flame out on McNabb, Jason Taylor, etc and you aren't even left with a depth player and could have filled the roster spot with a cheap UDFA or role-player from FA for the same amount of production.[/quote]

Well HIGH draft picks aren't really 'least costly method'. The least costly method is by hitting in the 3rd and 4th round where you are typically drafting for depth and you find starters. Also by sourcing and signing undrafted free agents. For example I heard Mark Dominick on radio earlier this week saying they looked at the undrafted FA this year as their '2nd draft' considering players like LeGarrette Blount a secondary draft pick. He said they scouted deeply the 2010 draft for impact players beyond the 7 rounds.

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=Jontrem;773232]So we would need to draft/sign 38 players? Actually way more than that to fill out a training camp roster. We CAN'T just dump everyone and try to start over, we dont have enough draft picks to do anything approaching this. Please do not give me the whole trade Haynesworth, DM and Cooley for draft picks. Out of those only Cooley would get us anything above a 4th.

This is going to take a few years to get right, and that is only if Shanny/Allen is the right duo to do this. If you aren't on board for that then that's fine, no one is saying you have to watch them rebuild. Feel free to hop off the bandwagon until they are good again. This mini rant is directed at you really either but at the mind set that we somehow need to be a playoff team next year.

As for a list of players we need to keep, I will leave that to the people who are far more familiar with the back up talent on this team than I am. Anyway thats my $.02[/quote]

lol u typed this all to me?

if u had ne idea who u were talkin to.
bro its obvious were gonna hold more than my list but RESPECTIVELY these are the guys who proved theyre worthy of being a Washington Redskin.

dont tell me "NOT ON BOARD"!
dont explain me anything either bro i know the whole deal.
go reply to someone else comment with ur 2 cents bro its worth nuthing here.

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=Jontrem;773232]So we would need to draft/sign 38 players? Actually way more than that to fill out a training camp roster. We CAN'T just dump everyone and try to start over, we dont have enough draft picks to do anything approaching this. Please do not give me the whole trade Haynesworth, DM and Cooley for draft picks. Out of those only Cooley would get us anything above a 4th.

This is going to take a few years to get right, and that is only if Shanny/Allen is the right duo to do this. If you aren't on board for that then that's fine, no one is saying you have to watch them rebuild. Feel free to hop off the bandwagon until they are good again. This mini rant is directed at you really either but at the mind set that we somehow need to be a playoff team next year.

As for a list of players we need to keep, I will leave that to the people who are far more familiar with the back up talent on this team than I am. Anyway thats my $.02[/quote]

I cant believe this clown came at me with a "bandwagon/on board" ordeal. if fact bro... i dont want YOU to be around as we rebuild.
:spank:

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=Paintrain;773354]Well HIGH draft picks aren't really 'least costly method'. The least costly method is by hitting in the 3rd and 4th round where you are typically drafting for depth and you find starters. Also by sourcing and signing undrafted free agents. For example I heard Mark Dominick on radio earlier this week saying they looked at the undrafted FA this year as their '2nd draft' considering players like LeGarrette Blount a secondary draft pick. He said they scouted deeply the 2010 draft for impact players beyond the 7 rounds.[/quote]I consider high round picks to be 3rd round picks and higher.
In terms of the probability of grabbing "sustainable" talent at "impact positions"(NT, elite pass rusher, LT, WRs) at reasonable prices, the 1st three rounds have best probability in getting all of that. We've had first rounders pan out just fine, but we have usually either traded away our 2nd rounders or bombed on them for since Gibbs II at the very least.

At least we have kept our mitts tightly on those 3rd round picks after Gibbs II's horrible management of the 3rd round picks. While Rhinehart has tanked, there is still hope for Barnes and Jarmon.

Obviously, we need to raid practice squads and UDFA great, good, and decent bargains. But Shanahan showed his true with regards to rebuilding __at least for this year__ when he committed roster spot after roster spot to Larry Johnson, Galloway, etc. As a result, he did not give himself the opportunity to grab younger and "longer-lasting" talent. Instead, they were nabbed by other teams.

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=GTripp0012;772975]I agree with you that in a world of perfect knowledge, Fletcher is a hall of fame caliber linebacker. But the flawed methodology used by a lot of hall of fame voters relies heavily on pro bowls and all-pro votes. And, perhaps wrongly, Fletcher didn't collect a lot of those otherwise meaningless awards. So he won't get down to a hall of fame finalists list.

But this guy has had a fantastic career, and his consecutive starts streak is more impressive than that of any quarterback. And as far as pure effectiveness goes, he's more effective now than Brett Favre was at a similar point in his career.[/quote]


GTripp:

The "flawed methodoloogy" also relies heavily on winning - - expeciallly when it comes to QBs on offense and MLBs on defense. Fletcher's years in Buffalo and Washington will not help his cause for the HoF - - unless he breaks Favre's record for consecutive starts.

Go look at the MLBs - - or the OLBs in a 3-4 alignment - - who are in the Hall of Fame now. Is Fletcher really as good as any of them? I don't think so...

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

For all those who think Portis should come back in a diminished role at a reduced salary, CP says in today's examiner that he wants to come back with the Skins but he's not looking to take a pay cut, he wants a raise.

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=irish;773417]For all those who think Portis should come back in a diminished role at a reduced salary, CP says in today's examiner that he wants to come back with the Skins but he's not looking to take a pay cut, he wants a raise.[/quote]

He's in for a rude awakening once the market sets his price.

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=Mattyk;773436]He's in for a rude awakening once the market sets his price.[/quote]

I agree, I almost spilled my coffee when I read that.

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=Skins4L;773367]I cant believe this clown came at me with a "bandwagon/on board" ordeal. if fact bro... i dont want YOU to be around as we rebuild.
:spank:[/quote]

First of all, I explained that the mini rant wasn't so much directed at you as the mindset. Second of all, learn some grammar so you can be understood like an adult. Third, who are you who that you cant have anything explained to you? I mean you joined in 08 and have 300 and something posts...not exactly a daily visitor are you?

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=irish;773437]I agree, I almost spilled my coffee when I read that.[/quote]

Perhaps not as bad of a comment with some context

[quote]I can't sit here and say, 'Ooh, I want to take a pay cut.' I really want a pay raise, to be honest," and he chuckled. [/quote]

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=irish;773417]For all those who think Portis should come back in a diminished role at a reduced salary, CP says in today's examiner that he wants to come back with the Skins but he's not looking to take a pay cut, he wants a raise.[/quote]

Not surprised one bit. Its been a good career CP, good luck in your new home

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=Mattyk;773448]Perhaps not as bad of a comment with some context[/quote]

Your quote is a little different that what's in the paper but with the way CP is although he chuckled he does believe he deserves a raise. There's no doubt about that. Heck, CP even thinks he's a back D coordinators will have to game plan for. Reality hasnt set in yet for CP.

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

I've got no problem with him thinking he can still be a top guy - when healthy.

He doesn't seem to think his recent injuries are a sign of him breaking down, he sees them as flukes more than anything. Time will tell if he's right or wrong on that.

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;773400]GTripp:

The "flawed methodoloogy" also relies heavily on winning - - expeciallly when it comes to QBs on offense and MLBs on defense. Fletcher's years in Buffalo and Washington will not help his cause for the HoF - - unless he breaks Favre's record for consecutive starts.

Go look at the MLBs - - or the OLBs in a 3-4 alignment - - who are in the Hall of Fame now. Is Fletcher really as good as any of them? I don't think so...[/quote]Well, Harry Carson just went into the hall of fame. He was a 9 time pro bowler, but was never once an AP All-pro. Fletcher is going to retire with just as many All-pro selections, but the many difference between them is pro bowl selections.

That's [I]probably[/I] more of a New York-centric bias than a measurable gap in on field contribution. It didn't hurt that Carson's teams won more...but if he played for Seattle and won just as much as he did, no one would consider him a hall of famer. Even though he's pretty deserving. Just the benefit of playing home games in New York.

Re: Currently Rostered Players Who Should be on the Redskins in 2011
 

I'd love to have CP back in a rotational scenario, say 10-12 carries a game. I think he can help us. He looked good this year behind the ZBS (except for the infamous Rams "slide").