Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=firstdown;784653]I was trying to give Saden a hard time. I realize 70 grand is not low income but when he said his friend paid no taxes I figured its because he is consider low income under the current tax system. Add in the fact he has 5 kids then that could be the case. I would think that most here agree if your making 70 grand a year you should be paying taxes.[/quote]

Actually I don't necessarily agree. I can defend just about every deduction in the current code that would affect the middle class:

- if you've got 5 children and you make 70K, that's not a lot to go around, so you should get that child credit.

- you need mortgage interest deductions in place or the incentive to buy your own home is greatly reduced. it would crush the housing market at a time when it can't afford it

- student loan interest deductions? if kids couldn't deduct it, enrollment in college would decline, or more would default on their loans. either result is not good for our future or economy in the present day

If I have any beef with the current tax code, it's with the deductions offered to the wealthy.

Tax code is complicated people, deal with it. It's that way for a reason.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=Schneed10;784659]Actually I don't necessarily agree. I can defend just about every deduction in the current code that would affect the middle class:

- if you've got 5 children and you make 70K, that's not a lot to go around, so you should get that child credit.

- you need mortgage interest deductions in place or the incentive to buy your own home is greatly reduced. it would crush the housing market at a time when it can't afford it

- student loan interest deductions? if kids couldn't deduct it, enrollment in college would decline, or more would default on their loans. either result is not good for our future or economy in the present day

If I have any beef with the current tax code, it's with the deductions offered to the wealthy.

Tax code is complicated people, deal with it. It's that way for a reason.[/quote]

Maybe they shouldn't have 5 kids and reduce the pool of taxpayers and leave us to pickup the slack? The world could use less critters...isn't that right FD?

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784665]Maybe they shouldn't have 5 kids and reduce the pool of taxpayers and leave us to pickup the slack? The world could use less critters...isn't that right FD?[/quote]

[url=http://geography.about.com/od/populationgeography/a/onechild.htm]China One Child Policy - Overview of the One Child Policy in China[/url]

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=Hog1;784673][url=http://geography.about.com/od/populationgeography/a/onechild.htm]China One Child Policy - Overview of the One Child Policy in China[/url][/quote]

I am a benevolent dictator. I would let you choose between more kids less benefits, less kids more benefits. I mean, it can't be worse than the current policy of more kids more benefits, less kids less benefits.


Think about it, you would benefit because the tax burden on you is less and there would be less useless little toddlers who you have to subsidize and compete for natural resources with. You'd be king of the mofo jungle! The planet could use your help folks.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784665]Maybe they shouldn't have 5 kids and reduce the pool of taxpayers and leave us to pickup the slack? The world could use [B]less critters[/B]...isn't that right FD?[/quote]

Thats right. If I'm correct there is a cap for the child deduction so any kids over two you don't get much of a write of if any. I think its capped at $6,000 which would be about 1,500 refund for most people. Thats not allot.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784677]I am a benevolent dictator. I would let you choose between more kids less benefits, less kids more benefits. I mean, it can't be worse than the current policy of more kids more benefits, less kids less benefits.


Think about it, you would benefit because the tax burden on you is less and there would be less useless little toddlers who you have to subsidize and compete for natural resources with. You'd be king of the mofo jungle! The planet could use your help folks.[/quote]

So you have a problem with our current system that gives more benefits to mother on well fair who have more children?

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=firstdown;784789]So you have a problem with our current system that gives more benefits to mother on well fair who have more children?[/quote]

I don't believe in handing people money because they have more kids. That isn't to say the government shouldn't provide some level of help (i.e. SCHIP, daycare, school lunch, education grants etc) to low income families.

Conservatives think only the poor don't pay taxes or get perks which clearly isn't true. I mean, there isn't enough poor people in this country for 47% of the population to not pay taxes.

Poverty in America from the census: [url]http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0708.pdf[/url]

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784794]I don't believe in handing people money because they have more kids. That isn't to say the government shouldn't provide some level of help (i.e. SCHIP, daycare, school lunch, education grants etc) to low income families.

Conservatives [B]think only the poor don't pay taxes or get perks which clearly isn't true.[/B] I mean, there isn't enough poor people in this country for 47% of the population to not pay taxes.

Poverty in America from the census: [URL]http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0708.pdf[/URL][/quote]

Thats the problem. The group of people not paying any federal income taxes has grown past the poor into the lower middle income to middle income. The poor is clearly the ones receiving the perks without paying into the system.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=firstdown;784798]Thats the problem. The group of people not paying any federal income taxes has grown past the poor into the lower middle income to middle income. The poor is clearly the ones receiving the perks without paying into the system.[/quote]

The reason the middle class are fitting into that 47% is not because they don't earn enough to be taxed, it's because they meet enough deductions and credits to not pay.

If you didn't give them the mortgage interest deduction credt, then the price of your house will go way down. If you didn't give them the child tax credit, more kids would just end up needing financial aid for college, because college savings are exactly what would get sacrificed.

If you want to change that 47% number you're talking about doing away with deductions, almost all of which need to be there, and if they're not there, there will be negative consequences for all of us.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=Schneed10;784801]The reason the middle class are fitting into that 47% is not because they don't earn enough to be taxed, it's because they meet enough deductions and credits to not pay.

If you didn't give them the mortgage interest deduction credt, then the price of your house will go way down. If you didn't give them the child tax credit, more kids would just end up needing financial aid for college, because college savings are exactly what would get sacrificed.

If you want to change that 47% number you're talking about doing away with deductions, almost all of which need to be there, and if they're not there, there will be negative consequences for all of us.[/quote]


So you want those with no children or less children and those with no mortgages to subsidize these people?

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

FYI to those who don't know.
Debts and deficits are not the same thing. Debts are a stock variable while deficits are a flow variable.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784805]So you want those with no children or less children and those with no mortgages to subsidize these people?[/quote]

Yes.

There needs to be an incentive to buy homes or the housing market will collapse in this economy. And those making 70K and supporting 3 kids deserve a bit more help from the government than those making 70K with no kids.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784805]So you want those with no children or less children and those with no mortgages to subsidize these people?[/quote]

Really I was thinking the same thing. How about if you cannot afford the child keep your pecker in your pants or your legs closed. I'm the first to say I take ever deduction I can but I still pay too much in taxes. Stop spending so much money and come up with a fair system for everyone. I don't mind palying more then someone making less as long as its fair and everyone pays into the system.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784677]I am a benevolent dictator. I would let you choose between more kids less benefits, less kids more benefits. I mean, [B]it can't be worse than the current policy of more kids more benefits, less kids less benefits.[/B]


Think about it, you would benefit because the tax burden on you is less and there would be less useless little toddlers who you have to subsidize and compete for natural resources with. You'd be king of the mofo jungle! The planet could use your help folks.[/quote]

There could be hope for you yet!

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

Why do anything to discourage population growth?? I don't understand that at all.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=Schneed10;784835]Why do anything to discourage population growth?? I don't understand that at all.[/quote]

The obvious budget implications. Societal dilemma's.......Oh yea, a Paved Planet is an unhappy planet...we have an unhappy planet

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=Hog1;784840]The obvious budget implications. Societal dilemma's.......Oh yea, a Paved Planet is an unhappy planet...we have an unhappy planet[/quote]

We might run out of food, oil, and asphalt before paving the planet...or we might kill eachother for them.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=Hog1;784833]There could be hope for you yet![/quote]

Is it like the Obama hope?

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784854]Is it like the Obama hope?[/quote]
Oh...no no no no no no....I give you...way more credit than Lord O.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784854]Is it like the Obama hope?[/quote]

The Obama Hope is fine its the Change part thats not working out so well.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=Hog1;784905]Oh...no no no no no no....I give you...way more credit than Lord O.[/quote]


You shouldn't...I'm not privy to the information he is and if I were I might make the same decisions. Politics is a crass sport and you and I may not be able to coach at that level.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

I did my part. Remember the vasectomy thread.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784944]You shouldn't...I'm not privy to the information he is and if I were [B]I might make the same decisions[/B]. Politics is a crass sport and you and I may not be able to coach at that level.[/quote]

..........Then I would......Damn you to HELL!
Naturally, in a most respectful way.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

It's been mentioned, but here is an interesting article (based on info obtained through wikileaks)

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_wiki_china_treasury]Special report: China flexed its muscles using U.S. Treasuries - Yahoo! News[/url]

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

more good news about the economy, umemployment drops under 9.0%

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=Chico23231;787514]more good news about the economy, umemployment drops under 9.0%[/quote]the other side of the coin....

[URL="http://links.heritage.org/hostedemail/email.htm?h=5ba5215ad9b46986e8516bd55e941024&CID=8172932738&ch=257121D01C240CE0FD5769BE251DED63"]Morning Bell: The Jobs Obama is Leaving Behind[/URL]

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;787602]the other side of the coin....

[URL="http://links.heritage.org/hostedemail/email.htm?h=5ba5215ad9b46986e8516bd55e941024&CID=8172932738&ch=257121D01C240CE0FD5769BE251DED63"]Morning Bell: The Jobs Obama is Leaving Behind[/URL][/quote]

lol..."it should be doing better"...yeah i guess the economy should be doing right?

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[url=http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/01/news/economy/jobs_report_unemployment_march/index.htm]March jobs report: Jobs gain, unemployment falls - Apr. 1, 2011[/url]

uh oh...more good news on the economy

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=Chico23231;791554][URL="http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/01/news/economy/jobs_report_unemployment_march/index.htm"]March jobs report: Jobs gain, unemployment falls - Apr. 1, 2011[/URL]

uh oh...more good news on the economy[/quote]Don't roll out the "Mission Accomplished" banner just yet. From NPR, not Heritage or Fox...

[URL="http://www.npr.org/2011/03/31/135002308/economy-update"]High Oil Prices Could Slow U.S. Economic Growth : NPR[/URL]

Mr. WESSEL: Nothing good. Look, that's a simple one. We've had $20, $25 increase in the price of oil. Each $10 increase in the price of oil shaves about two-tenths off our growth rate. [B]It's like a tax on us. The money goes to the oil producers. It hurts growth. It means that people spend money on something - they have to spend money to fill their tank. They can't spend it on other things. It raises prices here, raises inflation threat, so it's all bad, and that's probably the biggest single risk to economy right now that oil prices goes still higher. [/B]
MONTAGNE: Okay, so let's get back to where we started, tomorrow's jobs report. What are we likely to see?
Mr. WESSEL: Well, the expectations are we'll see about 200,000 more private sectors jobs created. That's about what we saw in February. But with [B]14 million people still unemployed and looking for work, this is pretty slow progress[/B]. We won't see any effects on the Japanese earthquake in here. The survey that the Labor Department takes was taken before that earthquake hit. We know that business has been getting better for a lot of business.
The Business Roundtable CEOs, for instance, said nearly all of them expect sales to go higher in the next six months, but only half of them see adding workers in the next six months. That's more than we saw before; a higher percentage we saw before, but still worrisome. So I think what people are looking for is some sign that the private sector job engine is getting better and better. [B]It's been getting better but it's such a painfully slow rate that it's really disappointing.[/B]
MONTAGNE: David Wessel of The Wall Street Journal. Thanks very much.
Mr. WESSEL: You're welcome.

And to be clear the policies of Obama and the Democrats in Congress have done nothing but deepen the recession and slow the recovery.

Then there's this......
[URL="http://www.usdebtclock.org/"]U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time[/URL]

Which Obama and the Ds have no interest in reversing.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

The press will have the unemployment below 5% by the time of the election. :)

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

I'd like to point out that it's insane to lay credit or blame for economic recovery/failure at the feet of the POTUS.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=Schneed10;791612]I'd like to point out that it's insane to lay credit or blame for economic recovery/failure at the feet of the POTUS.[/quote]Agreed, but a POTUS with a majority/supermajority of his/her party in Congress is a another issue.

And for clarity, I'm not saying they are the major factor, but certainly have significant influence on policy affecting the economy.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=firstdown;791610]The press will have the unemployment below 5% by the time of the election. :)[/quote]

lol...nice

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

I wanted to bump this thread for the bean counters. Pretty good accounting and detailed breakdown of [B]TARP[/B] bailout tracking funds disbursed, repaid, and interest.

On a side note, though the Bush admin won't get full credit for it TARP was probably the most successful policy passed during his administration, albeit right before he left the White House.


[url=http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/main/summary]Bailout Scorecard | Eye on the Bailout | ProPublica[/url]

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

Also important to keep in mind that Treasury never tapped the full $700 Billion TARP fund, meaning that the program will be finished a few years ahead of schedule and by law no new funds can be loaned or disbursed as of September 2010.

TARP's projected losses will be around $5o billion, although I saw a figure today that it could be closer to $34 billion once all funds are fully repaid.