Re: Would you be ok with...
 

I'd be ok with Mallett, Ponder or Locker (in that order) in the 2nd round, but I think we are picking Locker at 10 and that scares the hell outta me.

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

If we are going to reach for a qb at either 10 - Locker or 14 - Ponder/Dalton (if we trade back), I'd be much more comfortable reaching for Locker at 10. I just can't possibly see Ponder or Dalton being worth the 14th pick if that is what is being suggested. No way, no how.

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[quote=skinsfan69;795291]Over the last 20 years how many seasons has this team had outstanding QB play from start to finish? I can think of two seasons...Brad Johnson 1999 and Mark Rypien 1992. It's time to get a potentially great qb who can wins games.... and the only way to do that is to suck really bad in 2011 to have a chance to draft Luck in 2012.[/quote]


you don't need the first overall pick in order to get a potentially great QB. Just look at the great QB of the League in the last decade and tell me who was a 1st overall pick.

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[quote=skinsfaninok;795287]Mallett won't last until 41, as for the 10th pick I want a QB. The NFL has changed , this isn't always draft OL or DL anymore. QB is more important now than ever especially with the latest rule changes, the redskins havnt had a young QB of the future in decades So yes we need to take one now[/quote]

I couldn't agree with you more. As far as Mallett he definitely has a top 10 arm and I would take him at ten.

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It would be bad if we didn't spend any of our picks on a quarterback. It's just not good to have no QBs under the age of 29 on your roster. Had pretty much that same problem last year. Worst thing that you can do in a non-competitive year is having no one (at all) to play.

How many times would the Cowboys have been to the playoffs since 2005 if they had Drew Bledsoe and Chad Hutchinson on their 2006 roster instead of Bledsoe and Romo? Never, maybe?

I'm okay with passing on all QBs in the draft and paying out a decent sized UDFA contract to a guy like Jerrod Johnson, but I'm not cool with just going into the season with Grossman and Beck alone.

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[quote=Dirtbag59;795272]

4. Wait for one of the projects to fall in Kaepernick or Mallet at 41 or hope that Ponder experiences a Colt McCoy like dive.[/quote] Ryan Mallett is project? Do you even watch college football? He's the best passer in this draft.

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I would like it if the Skins would not draft a qb and trade down for more, much needed picks but I am not holding my breath.

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I thought it had been established you cannot trade future picks due to the CBA and lockout.

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

[quote=Landry44;795329]Ryan Mallett is project? Do you even watch college football? He's the best passer in this draft.[/quote]

I tend to agree, Mallet is the most plug and play ready out of all the QB's in this draft as long as you can protect him.

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

I'd be ok with it for sure. That's why I've warmed up to taking a QB in the 5th round or later. On paper, this team isn't a playoff contender being able to draft any 1st round graded QB in this year's draft.

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

[quote=drew54;795334]I thought it had been established you cannot trade future picks due to the CBA and lockout.[/quote]

Current players for picks, no. Players you draft, no. Current and future picks, yes.

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

[quote=Mattyk;795140]Not taking a QB at all in this draft?

Research shows that [URL="http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/03/31/use-caution-when-drafting-a-second-round-quarterba"]2nd round QBs have been mostly disappointments[/URL], so unless you get a top flight guy in the 1st round it's basically a waste to take a QB in later rounds.

Do you trust the likes of Grossman or Beck? Or picking up a stop gap veteran such as Hasselbeck?[/quote]

I would be okay with John Beck and a developmental QB like Tyrod Taylor or Ricky Stanzi.

I think that notion that 2nd round picks can't be successful is far more anecdotal then meaningful.

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

[quote=Landry44;795329]Ryan Mallett is project? Do you even watch college football? He's the best passer in this draft.[/quote]

I remember the Sugar Bowl.

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Mallett is the most ready to play QB right now, I still think JL will be the Star of the group

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[quote=skinsfaninok;795354]Mallett is the most ready to play QB right now, I still think JL will be the Star of the group[/quote]

Locker has just got Heath Shuler written ALL over him. Mobile, inaccurate, low football IQ. Can't see him all of the sudden becoming a great QB when he never was before.

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;795354]Mallett is the most ready to play QB right now, I still think JL will be the Star of the group[/quote]

It could go either way. On one hand you could say that he played in a pro style system and has an NFL ready arm.

On the other hand you could say that his pro style system has failed to prepare any QB for the NFL level, his decision making is suspect, and he doesn't have the mobility to escape the rush.

He'll have to sit for a year or two if for no other reason then to know where everyone is so his inability to avoid the rush doesn't become a liability.

QB's that are NFL ready usually have some sort of mobility or pocket presence that allows them to buy extra time as they learn to read NFL defenses. Matt Ryan, Big Ben, Flacco, Marino, and Freeman all had at the very least decent mobility. And yes Flacco and Ryan both have decent mobility. Mallet has minimal. Short of being protected by the Jets line he'll be a major liability his first year.

In my mind he's a project.


[quote=Paintrain;795356]Locker has just got Heath Shuler written ALL over him. Mobile, inaccurate, low football IQ. Can't see him all of the sudden becoming a great QB when he never was before.[/quote]

Personally, for better or worse, I feel that Mike Vick is a better comparison.

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

[quote=Paintrain;795356]Locker has just got Heath Shuler written ALL over him. Mobile, inaccurate, low football IQ. Can't see him all of the sudden becoming a great QB when he never was before.[/quote]

Yeah but Locker is twice the athlete and has a great arm. Hey I agree he's not a guy ready to play until 2012 OR 13 but he's got a huge upside

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;795360]Yeah but Locker is twice the athlete and has a great arm. Hey I agree he's not a guy ready to play until 2012 OR 13 but he's got a huge upside[/quote]

Even with that, I'm still not sold. If we draft him, I vigorously hope that I am wrong.

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;795360]Yeah but Locker is twice the athlete and has a great arm. Hey I agree he's not a guy ready to play until 2012 OR 13 but he's got a huge upside[/quote]

If the lockout, or the current appeal, causes post draft minicamps and OTA's to be canceled and cuts into training camp time then no rookie QB should play this year until at least week 14. Maybe Newton if he goes number 1 but even then they should have a very simple run heavy system in place for him.

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;795360]Yeah but Locker is twice the athlete and has a great arm. Hey I agree he's not a guy ready to play until 2012 OR 13 but he's got a huge upside[/quote]

I would argue that Shuler also was a great athlete and had a great arm. Those two qualities alone do not make for NFL success, as Shuler sadly showed.

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Locker also doesn't seem like someone that'll get butt-hurt if things aren't going as planned. He leaves it all on the field because he loves the game.

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[quote=Dirtbag59;795358]It could go either way. On one hand you could say that he played in a pro style system and has an NFL ready arm.

On the other hand you could say that his pro style system has failed to prepare any QB for the NFL level, his decision making is suspect, and he doesn't have the mobility to escape the rush.

He'll have to sit for a year or two if for no other reason then to know where everyone is so his inability to avoid the rush doesn't become a liability.

QB's that are NFL ready usually have some sort of mobility or pocket presence that allows them to buy extra time as they learn to read NFL defenses. Matt Ryan, Big Ben, Flacco, Marino, and Freeman all had at the very least decent mobility. And yes Flacco and Ryan both have decent mobility. Mallet has minimal. Short of being protected by the Jets line he'll be a major liability his first year.

In my mind he's a project.




Personally, for better or worse, I feel that Mike Vick is a better comparison.[/quote] Ryan Mallett has a world class arm. He's extremely accurate with the football. He's proven that he can go through his progressions and make a good decision on a consistent basis. It's obvious that you haven't seen Mallett play because if you did you would know that he's pretty good at avoiding pressure and making big throws. He's play against the best competition and put up big numbers against them. How is this guy a project? Is it because he's not mobile? If so, that's probably one of the most idiotic statements that I've read on here so far. The qbs you named aren't elite qbs even though Big Ben got two rings. However, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Rivers, and Matt Shaub are all very successful and neither one of them are mobile qbs.

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

[quote=Lotus;795376]I would argue that Shuler also was a great athlete and had a great arm. Those two qualities alone do not make for NFL success, as Shuler sadly showed.[/quote]

True but I just don't see shuler as the same level of athlete but again that doesn't make a good QB. I like jakes toughness and will to win, Heath didn't have that on the football field IMO .

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

Ironically I never labled Flacco, Ryan, and Ben as elite QB's. What I did say was that they were QB's that were able to contribute right away. They weren't projects. However it's certainly not difficult to make a case for them considering the fact that all three posted 90+ ratings this past year.

Anyway the link between Ryan, Ben, Marino and Flacco was good enough mobility that allowed them to buy an extra second or two in the pocket. Thereby creating a push against their inexperience in reading NFL defensive coverage. I can't think of any pure pocket passer that experienced anywhere near the level of success achieved by the four I mentioned during their rookie season.

Here's more detail on why Mallet qualifies as a project:

- His pro style system has failed to produce one even mediocre QB at the NFL level. In fact the most promising prospect to come through the NFL ranks was cut during training camp (see Brian Brohm, Chris Redman, Stefen LeFors, Dave Ragone).

- Fine he played in an elite conference. It was suppose to help good old Eli take the NFL by storm (that storm took 4 regular seasons to develop) as well as our very own Campbell. Stafford is promising but he certainly didn't post great numbers right away.

- Also if we take away the 3 games where he got to play with a vaunted SEC team against the children of the poor (Tenn Tech, Lou-Monroe, UTEP) his numbers go down from 32 TD passes and 12 Ints to 21 TD passes and 10 ints.

His completion percentage also drops to 62%. Which while accurate doesn't qualify him as extremely accurate. Especially when compared to the 55% and 43% (yes 43%) he posted the previous two years.

- He doesn't have nearly enough mobility to compensate for his lack of knowledge in regards to NFL speed and coverage schemes. So unless he gets the line that protects Brady or the one that protects Sanchez he will see the same level of pressure that he saw against Ohio State.

And the saddest thing about all this is I don't even hate Mallet. In fact I'm intrigued by him as a QB prospect. I don't know if he's right for our system but if our team drafts him I'll surely know the answer. However the only chance he has to develop ahead of the curve is a great O-line. And very few teams have that.

PS - I'll have you know I watched him against UGA, Auburn, Alabama, and Ohio State from start to finish. So please don't play the "you've never watched him play" card.

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[quote=KI Skins Fan;795306]I assume that our new cheer would go something like "Suck Skins Suck!". I dunno, it just doesn't feel right to me. I'm hoping that there's some other way to build a winner.[/quote]

It doesn't feel right to me either but I just feel in todays NFL you have to have a top tier QB.

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I have no problem with the Skins not taking a QB in this draft.

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[quote=skinsfaninok;795422]True but I just don't see shuler as the same level of athlete but again that doesn't make a good QB. I like jakes toughness and will to win, Heath didn't have that on the football field IMO .[/quote]

Shuler has toughness and the will to win at the ballot box. :cheeky-sm

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;795424]It doesn't feel right to me either but I just feel in todays NFL you have to have a top tier QB.[/quote]

You also need a good all around team. We have many needs beyond QB.

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

Absolutely I'd be okay with it.

It's no secret, if you don't like a quarterback enough that you have to draft him past round 1, he's clearly not good enough.

If Shanahan likes Locker or Mallett or who the hell knows, they'll be taken at #10. Anything past that and there's obviously too much doubt or optimism.

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I agree for the most part but that doesn't mean you don't draft a QB late. Our team is starving for a young QB and the Shannys know that.

If I have it my way, we'll pick Pat Devlin late!

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[quote=Paintrain;795350]Current players for picks, no. Players you draft, no. Current and future picks, yes.[/quote]

I was mis-informed, Thanks!

I still am tired of this short sighted team building. Reminds me of the rest of Washington.

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

[quote=Mattyk;795140]Research shows that [URL="http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/03/31/use-caution-when-drafting-a-second-round-quarterba"]2nd round QBs have been mostly disappointments[/URL], so unless you get a top flight guy in the 1st round it's basically a waste to take a QB in later rounds.[/quote]

I believe research would also show any QB with a horrible O-line is at a nearly insurmountable disadvantage.

Use that 1st-round pick on another O-lineman and a 2nd-round QB will have a better chance at success than a 1st-round QB without the line upgrade.

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There's always free agency to plug holes on the OL too.

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True, but I'd prefer a young player. We should follow the Jets model and use our first-round pick on a lineman until our whole line is 1st-round studs. Then, even with a horrible QB like Sanchez, we could contend for a decade.

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

[quote=Monkeydad;795890]I believe research would also show any QB with a horrible O-line is at a nearly insurmountable disadvantage.

Use that 1st-round pick on another O-lineman and a 2nd-round QB will have a better chance at success than a 1st-round QB without the line upgrade.[/quote]

If we keep that second round pick I would much rather use it on a front 7 defender.

And whats to say that our O-Line will be horrible this year? Just because of what happened last year? I saw the Falcons and Chief O-Lines change over the course of one offseason with little if any additions, and even though the Falcons drafted Sam Baker in 08 he still only played 5 games.

We have Trent Williams not to mention a chance to choose between a healthy Jammal Brown and Ryan Harris. Davin Joesph is also a huge favorite to come here. Kory L got a year of starting experience, Will Montgomery is improving, and I'm sure that between Cook and Capers one will develop into a solid starter. Heck even Heyer improved last year into a respectable swing man.

Bottom line we could easily be going into next year with 3 pro bowl level starters (Williams, Brown, Joesph) or at worst 2 pro bowlers and one very good young Right Tackle.

Also don't forget we have plenty of late round picks and Shanahan has made a living out of getting quality lineman in rounds 5-7.

Finally in light of the improved O-Lines I mentioned in KC and ATL we will easily have more raw talent then both of them. Only thing left to do is continue feeding the late round pipeline and getting two top notch guys signed out of Joesph, Brown, and Harris.

Re: Would you be ok with...
 

[quote=Monkeydad;795890]I believe research would also show any QB with a horrible O-line is at a nearly insurmountable disadvantage.

Use that 1st-round pick on another O-lineman and a 2nd-round QB will have a better chance at success than a 1st-round QB without the line upgrade.[/quote]It depends on how you define horrible O-line. You could make the argument that the Colts and Chargers have awful lines, but those teams succeed because they don't exactly torpedo their offenses by sucking. Some would argue that, because they don't limit their offenses and can be schemed around, they can't be a horrible o-line, they are merely unremarkable.

But I'll also say that Peyton Manning and Philip Rivers didn't develop behind bad OLs. They benefitted from good line play in their developmental years. And the tried and true way to develop a QB is go allow him good line play in his developmental years.

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[quote=Dirtbag59;795946]If we keep that second round pick I would much rather use it on a front 7 defender.

[B]And whats to say that our O-Line will be horrible this year? Just because of what happened last year? [/B]I saw the Falcons and Chief O-Lines change over the course of one offseason with little if any additions, and even though the Falcons drafted Sam Baker in 08 he still only played 5 games.

We have Trent Williams not to mention a chance to choose between a healthy Jammal Brown and Ryan Harris. Davin Joesph is also a huge favorite to come here. Kory L got a year of starting experience, Will Montgomery is improving, and I'm sure that between Cook and Capers one will develop into a solid starter. Heck even Heyer improved last year into a respectable swing man.

Bottom line we could easily be going into next year with 3 pro bowl level starters (Williams, Brown, Joesph) or at worst 2 pro bowlers and one very good young Right Tackle.

Also don't forget we have plenty of late round picks and Shanahan has made a living out of getting quality lineman in rounds 5-7.

Finally in light of the improved O-Lines I mentioned in KC and ATL we will easily have more raw talent then both of them. Only thing left to do is continue feeding the late round pipeline and getting two top notch guys signed out of Joesph, Brown, and Harris.[/quote]

No disrespect intended but you sound like Vinny Ceratto. I looked at last years team stats for another thread and I was shocked at how bad our offensive line played both visually and statically. We were 28th in giving up sacks with 46 sacks. We were 31st (next to last) in our QB taking hits with 110 Qb hits. Keep in the mind the worst team had 111, we were one hit away from being last. We were 30th in the league in rushing yards.
I think it is great that you are optimistic, but our O-line sucks.
That you mentioned Heyer is scary. You can not polish a turd. :cheeky-sm
Seriously though, we need new young linemen.

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We also threw more times, I believe, than any other team in football.

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[quote=Mattyk;795429]You also need a good all around team. We have many needs beyond QB.[/quote]

I agree, but in todays watered down NFL QB play is magnified cause it's the most important position on the field. Green Bay overcame all those injuries but the one they could never overcome if Rogers got hurt. Same with Indy. Take Manning off that team and they might be 5-11 or 6-10 every year.

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[quote=GTripp0012;795968]We also threw more times, I believe, than any other team in football.[/quote]

No, but we were fourth with 605 pass attempts compared to the #1 team the Colts with 679 pass attempts.