Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;802017]I dont have a problem with us losing if building blocks to our future are getting playing time. I would never root for us to lose of course. But if Hankerson, Austin, Jenkins, Capers, and Nield are out there playing and getting experience to make us a better team I'm ok with 4-12. If it's Roydell, Furrey, Maake, Hicks, and Holliday I'm not.[/quote]

I'm totally fine with that scenario. They can definitely save face by playing these younger players - allowing them to gain experience and cohesion - while still making a play for a good draft pick next year...I'd be able to stand a poor 2011 campaign if it means 2012 could be substantially better. My only fear with this is Snyder. I'm afraid he won't have the patients to handle two poor seasons of shanahan.

Shanahan seems to me to be the correct guy to right the ship; however, how long can he truly last under Snyder?

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=Mattyk;801996]Moss has said he hopes to come back.

Sorry but rooting for 0-16 = retarded.[/quote]

AGREED.....I couldn't stomach that.

we just need some positive momentum to start going in the right direction...hopefully that starts this year

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=skinster;801994]"not much longer" I mean that I have heard that we don't want to extend Rocky, Moss doesn't want to stay here, Brown wants to be a starting LT somewhere, and Los wants out as well. They are all FA's this year.

But more so on top of that by "not much longer" is that even if some of these guys stay, how much longer will they be effective? by the time we get the pieces around them to fill the other holes on our team, many players on our team will be too old an ineffective and we will have to fill those new holes, not having a complete team.

I am 100% on board with the Luck proposal, I've been saying it for years. I'd much prefer to be absolutely terrible for a few years, get the core players we need in the draft, and then start to wreck shit up as opposed to staying in mediocrity forever. The lions and Rams will be two great teams a few years down the road...hell even look at the falcons now. The colts/chargers/giants would all be nothing if not for that one bad season they had. We need a great qb, and to get that we need to lose.
I'll personally be rooting for an 0-16 season, and get Andrew Luck. I would love watching our games even in those first few seasons when our rebuilding project begins, before we are good. I'd love to just watch young guys develop and watch the improvement of our team. And then when it all clicks together, I'd love that even more. Mediocrity is the worst thing you can be in football. You don't improve enough through the draft, and your team still pisses you off. I've been pissed off way too long. I want something to look forward to.[/quote]

There is no guarantee that picking near the top of the draft year after year will get you results. I mean do we really have to look at the past decade, you'll routinely find a few teams that are top 10 or worse nearly every year and aren't Super Bowl bound anytime soon. I'm sorry but I don't trust getting several early 1st round picks over a number of years leading us to prosperity. A lot of things happen over a few years and it would be stupid to mortgage the future on the hope that 3-5 top 5 picks would make us legitimate contenders; that is a completely unacceptable and foolish strategy.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=tryfuhl;802027]There is no guarantee that picking near the top of the draft year after year will get you results. I mean do we really have to look at the past decade, you'll routinely find a few teams that are top 10 or worse nearly every year and aren't Super Bowl bound anytime soon. I'm sorry but I don't trust getting several early 1st round picks over a number of years leading us to prosperity. A lot of things happen over a few years and it would be stupid to mortgage the future on the hope that 3-5 top 5 picks would make us legitimate contenders; that is a completely unacceptable and foolish strategy.[/quote]

Our record with 1st round picks have been pretty good. So if the situation did present itself, I would predict satisfaction, at least for me.

But this is all hypothetical talk. We are too good a team to be able to tank. (yes, 5-11 or better means you are indeed too good to tank in my world). Since there will be no firesale for our team, Andrew Luck may be be a superstar...somewhere else...maybe Buf-, ahem, Toronto.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=mbedner3420;802020]

Shanahan seems to me to be the correct guy to right the ship; however, how long can he truly last under Snyder?[/quote]

When the PR is no longer bad...for Snyder.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;802018]And if you are rooting for 0-16, [B]we better not once next season read any comments from you complaining about how we sucked, or I can't believe we missed that block, dropped that TD, made that call, etc[/B].[/quote]

Good luck with that.

I can never root against my team to lose under any circumstances. Thats just not being a real fan IMO. I had a friend who used to bet against his team constantly because he would say he'd be happy either way...thats bullsh*t and retarded. I seriously cant believe anyone would really feel like that way on this board in order to draft a player.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

Are there any starting-quality FAs (DLs, QBs and OLs) that haven't been talked about that could fit this team easily? Everyone discussed so far is a bit over-the-hill, pricey, risky, or on the squad last year.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;802018]And if you are rooting for 0-16, we better not once next season read any comments from you complaining about how we sucked, or I can't believe we missed that block, dropped that TD, made that call, etc.[/quote]

deal, as long as I'm allowed to talk about guys who should be cut the next year. If I'm rooting to get last, I'll be looking towards the future, and will comment appropriately towards the future of our team should look like.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=Chico23231;802038]Good luck with that.

I can never root against my team to lose under any circumstances. Thats just not being a real fan IMO. I had a friend who used to bet against his team constantly because he would say he'd be happy either way...thats bullsh*t and retarded. I seriously cant believe anyone would really feel like that way on this board in order to draft a player.[/quote]

I care, I just care smarter that you. I'm greedy, I want it all. I want to be an elite team. 8-8 is bullshit in my mind. Unless we are good enough to compete for a superbowl I'm not satisfied. Be real, theres no chance of that happening anytime soon. I just want the best ammo to be able to get to that level. Delayed gratification.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=tryfuhl;802027]There is no guarantee that picking near the top of the draft year after year will get you results. I mean do we really have to look at the past decade, you'll routinely find a few teams that are top 10 or worse nearly every year and aren't Super Bowl bound anytime soon. I'm sorry but I don't trust getting several early 1st round picks over a number of years leading us to prosperity. A lot of things happen over a few years and it would be stupid to mortgage the future on the hope that 3-5 top 5 picks would make us legitimate contenders; that is a completely unacceptable and foolish strategy.[/quote]

I'm not talking near the top, I'm talking the top. I'm talking Luck. He is a guarantee in my mind. Plus it might not be guaranteed that higher draft picks are better, but look at the odds, they more than likely are. Look at the draft chart how much these picks are worth relative to one another. The top of the board is worth so much. Theres no guarantee, but its much more highley likely, and I'd like to have the best odds possible.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=skinster;802044]deal, as long as I'm allowed to talk about guys who should be cut the next year. If I'm rooting to get last, I'll be looking towards the future, and will comment appropriately towards the future of our team should look like.[/quote]

[IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vMXDgpanyDM/TVRZeXYOj6I/AAAAAAAAADU/l_ZZ-VPlGgE/s1600/picard-facepalm.jpg[/IMG]

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=skinster;802045]I care, I just care smarter that you. I'm greedy, I want it all. I want to be an elite team. 8-8 is bullshit in my mind. Unless we are good enough to compete for a superbowl I'm not satisfied. Be real, theres no chance of that happening anytime soon. I just want the best ammo to be able to get to that level. Delayed gratification.[/quote]

You sure don't write smarter [I]that[/I] him.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;802048][IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vMXDgpanyDM/TVRZeXYOj6I/AAAAAAAAADU/l_ZZ-VPlGgE/s1600/picard-facepalm.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

nah, just cause you don't get it, doesn't mean it doesnt make sense. You won't hear me talking about how much we suck as a team, just analyze what we need to upgrade, what individuals are playing as they should, and talk about how im happy to have about the strengths that we have. Always be keeping in mind the future of our team in every post I make.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;802051]You sure don't write smarter [I]that[/I] him.[/quote]

touche.

maybe i should start to proof read.....nah.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=skinster;802045]I care, [B]I just care smarter that you[/B]. I'm greedy, I want it all. I want to be an elite team. 8-8 is bullshit in my mind. Unless we are good enough to compete for a superbowl I'm not satisfied. Be real, theres no chance of that happening anytime soon. I just want the best ammo to be able to get to that level. Delayed gratification.[/quote]

No. Getting Luck is not the only path to a Super Bowl win. Rooting for the team to lose, when we can win the Super Bowl through means other than you suggest, is sheer stupidity.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=skinster;802053]touche.

maybe i should start to proof read.....nah.[/quote]

[IMG]http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/7/70/Cool_story_bro.jpg[/IMG]

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

What a great sales pitch though

"Hey Santana, we'd love to re-sign you. We think you'd be great for the team...as we attempt to tank the season in order to maybe, possibly get Luck. You down?!"

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;802051]You sure don't write smarter [I]that[/I] him.[/quote]
than a boy

[QUOTE=skinster;802052]nah, just cause you don't get it, doesn't mean it doesnt make sense. You won't hear me talking about how much we suck as a team, just analyze what we need to upgrade, what individuals are playing as they should, and talk about how im happy to have about the strengths that we have. Always be keeping in mind the future of our team in every post I make.[/QUOTE]

How many teams can you cite that followed your road to glory? I can maybe think of one, though I doubt they planned it out, and that would be the Colts. For a team to tank a season (ie 0 or 1 wins) the issues have to be so systemic, and ingrained that a team won't go to elite status. It just doesn't work that way. It hasn't and it wouldn't for us. More likely, along the lines of the Broncos that Shanahan took to the SB in back to back years you start with a nucleus ( shanahan went 8-8 his first year) you add quality, depth and team guys, (SB next year) and you build on those qualities every year evaluating your team, and the individuals.
That's how the elite teams have done it. No other way. Tanking sends a simple message, one guy is more special than all of you on the team now. That WILL NOT result in an elite team. And history backs that fact up, nothing backs up tanking. (Except in the VC school of EVPOFO).

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=diehard;802039]Are there any starting-quality FAs (DLs, QBs and OLs) that haven't been talked about that could fit this team easily? Everyone discussed so far is a bit over-the-hill, pricey, risky, or on the squad last year.[/quote]

I believe there are approximately 300 free agents out there with NFL experience. Are there any that could fit in with the Redskins out of that group? There would have to be...

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=skinster;802052]nah, just cause you don't get it, doesn't mean it doesnt make sense. You won't hear me talking about how much we suck as a team, just analyze what we need to upgrade, what individuals are playing as they should, and talk about how im happy to have about the strengths that we have. Always be keeping in mind the future of our team in every post I make.[/quote]

I was referring to you rooting for the team to lose comments.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;802062]How many teams can you cite that followed your road to glory? I can maybe think of one, though I doubt they planned it out, and that would be the Colts. For a team to tank a season (ie 0 or 1 wins) the issues have to be so systemic, and ingrained that a team won't go to elite status. It just doesn't work that way. It hasn't and it wouldn't for us. More likely, along the lines of the Broncos that Shanahan took to the SB in back to back years you start with a nucleus ( shanahan went 8-8 his first year) you add quality, depth and team guys, (SB next year) and you build on those qualities every year evaluating your team, and the individuals.
That's how the elite teams have done it. No other way. Tanking sends a simple message, one guy is more special than all of you on the team now. That WILL NOT result in an elite team. And history backs that fact up, nothing backs up tanking. (Except in the VC school of EVPOFO).[/quote]

History backs me up. Elite qbs=elite teams
higher draft picks=better improvement to teams

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

So your stance, skinster, is that we should make every attempt to lose as much as possible next year so that we can hopefully get the no. 1 pick and draft Andrew Luck?

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;802083]So your stance, skinster, is that we should make every attempt to lose as much as possible next year so that we can hopefully get the no. 1 pick and draft Andrew Luck?[/quote]

Lets rate our happyness with our team from 1-10 from year to year. Last place will be a 1. 8-8 IMO is about a 3.5. Any team that is truley competative for a superbowl is at least an 8.

I'm looking at my overall happyness with my team over the next ten years and I want to have the highest average possible. IMO the best way to get the higest average is to get luck.

So I don't want to say that our strategy should be to lose because that is demoralizing to do, but if we do lose and get luck, EVERY redskins fan will have a higher average happyness rating over the next ten years.

So yes I am saying it is in our best interest to get last place this year.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;802083]So your stance, skinster, is that we should make every attempt to lose as much as possible next year so that we can hopefully get the no. 1 pick and draft Andrew Luck?[/quote]

Well just for the record so theres no confusion. My stance is I pray to God an AFC team gets the number 1 pick next year. If Vinny/Spurrier and Vinny/Zorn can't get higher then 4 then I have a hard time believing that Shanallen can get to 1.

Also once again keep in mind that Luck could easily return to school in 2012 so having the number 1 pick in 2012 doesn't mean you'll be in any sort of position to select Luck. Though I feel much stronger about Matt Barkley going back then I do Luck.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=skinster;802084]Lets rate our happyness with our team from 1-10 from year to year. Last place will be a 1. 8-8 IMO is about a 3.5. Any team that is truley competative for a superbowl is at least an 8.

I'm looking at my overall happyness with my team over the next ten years and I want to have the highest average possible. IMO the best way to get the higest average is to get luck.

So I don't want to say that our strategy should be to lose because that is demoralizing to do, but if we do lose and get luck, EVERY redskins fan will have a higher average happyness rating over the next ten years.

So yes I am saying it is in our best interest to get last place this year.[/quote]

The Pursuit of Happyness?

So..you don't want us to lose, yet you want us to finish in last place. Because then maybe we'll get Luck and the next decade will be pure bliss?

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;802057]What a great sales pitch though

"Hey Santana, we'd love to re-sign you. We think you'd be great for the team...as we attempt to tank the season in order to maybe, possibly get Luck. [B]You down[/B]?!"[/quote]

Tana's 5'9. He's already down har har har.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;802086]The Pursuit of Happyness?

So..you don't want us to lose, yet you want us to finish in last place. Because then maybe we'll get Luck and the next decade will be pure bliss?[/quote]

yea. Of course as a redskins fan I want wins. I just think the best way to maximize wins is through a franchise qb, which is hard to come by. I believe luck is that guy. I'll take a bad season for decade of good ones.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=skinster;802089]yea. Of course as a redskins fan I want wins. I just think the best way to maximize wins is through a franchise qb, which is hard to come by. I believe luck is that guy. I'll take a bad season for decade of good ones.[/quote]

And what do we have to support him?

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=tryfuhl;802090]And what do we have to support him?[/quote]

that will come. He won't even be in full stride till year 3 or so. but when the opportunity comes to get him, we get him. Franchise qb's don't come around very often. I'd argue that there were none this year.

Bradford is the savior of the rams. Believe you me they will be good in the future.

Luck will be the savior of whatever team takes him.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

Tanking the season for Luck?
[IMG]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRO74R11E4pXrgllEH-o4H3r4xW2m_1Viu3jjBgxTC_CK-GNJLOmg[/IMG]

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

How can Luck not be a bust? With all the hype surrounding this guy, there is no way he live up to it.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

I'll pose the same question I always pose when I hear the asinine idea of tanking a season.

How many teams in the league have found their franchise QB's by picking them 1st overall in the draft?

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=GreekSkin;802096]I'll pose the same question I always pose when I hear the asinine idea of tanking a season.

How many teams in the league have found their franchise QB's by picking them 1st overall in the draft?[/quote]

there's certain guys that you just know are gonna be great. Since my fanship of following the draft (7 years or so), sam bradford was the only one for me that was a lock. Andrew Luck is numero dos. These guys just dont come around so often.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=skinster;802082]History backs me up. Elite qbs=elite teams
higher draft picks=better improvement to teams[/quote]

[quote=GreekSkin;802096]I'll pose the same question I always pose when I hear the asinine idea of tanking a season.

How many teams in the league have found their franchise QB's by picking them 1st overall in the draft?[/quote]

Let's look at GreekSkin's fine question, albeit reformulated: how many of the last few Super Bowl winners found their QB at #1? Answer: None.

History does not back you up, Skinster, as you claim.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;802018]And if you are rooting for 0-16, we better not once next season read any comments from you complaining about how we sucked, or I can't believe we missed that block, dropped that TD, made that call, etc.[/quote]

What a sight to see the other mid-level teams adopt the skinster philosophy. Anyone who pays to see their favorite team play would find [rooting to lose] totally out of line.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

Can you imagine 2 or 3 teams playing to lose, might get some all time NFL Folly clips.

on a side note, for some reason I am reminded of this puzzle:

An Arab sheikh tells his two sons to race their camels to a distant city to see who will inherit his fortune. The one whose camel is slower will win.

The brothers, after wandering aimlessly for days, ask a wise man for advise. After hearing the advice they jump on the camels and race as fast as they can to the city. What does the wise man say?

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

So even show up for games?
We should just sit out the whole season and have very rested players.
So in Sept we can just call up Goodell and have him mark us down for zero wins.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;802118]Can you imagine 2 or 3 teams playing to lose, might get some all time NFL Folly clips.

on a side note, for some reason I am reminded of this puzzle:

An Arab sheikh tells his two sons to race their camels to a distant city to see who will inherit his fortune. The one whose camel is slower will win.

The brothers, after wandering aimlessly for days, ask a wise man for advise. After hearing the advice they jump on the camels and race as fast as they can to the city. What does the wise man say?[/quote]

Ines Sainz is standing at the city gate buck naked?

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;802118]Can you imagine 2 or 3 teams playing to lose, might get some all time NFL Folly clips.

on a side note, for some reason I am reminded of this puzzle:

An Arab sheikh tells his two sons to race their camels to a distant city to see who will inherit his fortune. The one whose camel is slower will win.

The brothers, after wandering aimlessly for days, ask a wise man for advise. After hearing the advice they jump on the camels and race as fast as they can to the city. What does the wise man say?[/quote]

The city is the one they are starting from?