Re: London Riots
 

[quote=NC_Skins;823547]If both of you got that out of the article, then you maybe you need to reread it again. Where are you getting he's using "our" politics to excuse their riots? Hell, he makes no mention of us at all other than the fact he lives in the US now. You realize there are other places in the world besides America right?


Also, ever thought that maybe their politics are a lot like ours. (which it is...and corrupted and out of touch with its people)[/quote]

The guy is a hack Hollywood mediot...all of them should STFU.
Once he said the solution is "spiritual" I regretted reading any of what he said.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=firstdown;823771]EDIT. Not worth it. You do realize the guy was probably stonded when he wrote this so it makes more sense to you.[/quote]

Yeah, so because the guy was a previous drug addict (clean since 2002), that makes anything he says stupid and invalid. I'll tell you what I do realize. I realize you didn't read the article at all. You took the quotes I supplied in the original post and you assumed he was talking about American politics based on the sample quotes I left you with.

Had you read the article, you would have seen that he addressed his past issues and even his own prior reasons to why he attended protests.


[quote]I should here admit that I have been arrested for criminal damage for my part in anti-capitalist protest earlier in this decade. I often attended protests and then, in my early 20s, and on drugs, I enjoyed it when the protests lost direction and became chaotic, hostile even. [/quote]


[quote]I found those protests exciting, yes, because I was young and a bit of a twerp but also, I suppose, because there was a void in me. A lack of direction, a sense that I was not invested in the dominant culture, that government existed not to look after the interests of the people it was elected to represent but the big businesses that they were in bed with.[/quote]

It's sad you took the time to wikipedia who Russell Brand was and his 14 arrests, but couldn't take the time to read the well thought out (and written) article about the London riots by a fellow Brit. Instead, you'd rather get mad I pointed out your fallacy and go on to further to imply that I enjoyed the article because it was probably written under the influence of drugs. (which I'm a stoner??)

Stay classy.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=NC_Skins;823165]Uncle Jimbo is a hack and a complete dumbass. No, he doesn't need his separate thread.[/quote]

A compelling argument, for sure. /sarc

Now would you care to substantiate that statement?

Did you even read the article?

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;823789]The guy is a hack Hollywood mediot...all of them should STFU.
Once he said the solution is "spiritual" I regretted reading any of what he said.[/quote]


Hollywood hack eh?


[quote]I feel proud to be English, proud to be a Londoner (all right, an Essex boy), never more so than since being in exile, and I naturally began to wonder what would make young people destroy their communities.


But I can't, from my ivory tower in the Hollywood Hills, compete with the understandable yet futile rhetoric, describing the rioters as mindless
[/quote]

I think you need to look deeper into the "spiritual" thing.

[quote]But I know, as we all intuitively know, the solution is all around us and it isn't political, it is spiritual. Gandhi said: "Be the change you want to see in the world."

If we don't want our young people to tear apart our communities then don't let people in power tear apart the values that hold our communities together.[/quote]

He's implying that we as people need to change if we want the world to change.

Re: London Riots
 

Yea, AW you need to take a bong hit and get more spiritial. Then put on a hoody and distroy shit because you have been F&^% by the rich.LOL

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=mlmpetert;823755][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I havent been following this thread at all so maybe this has been posted or talked about, but England is a pretty dangerous place:[/FONT][/COLOR]

<SNIP>[/quote]


That's something I've maintained for over 15 years. The U.K. is extremely violent. I've been to places like Scotty Road in Liverpool, East End of London etc that make South Central LA look like Disneyland.

The likelihood of a violent encounter in the U.K. is so much higher than here and I'd guess that it's because the violence here tends to become homicidal more readily.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=firstdown;823872]Yea, AW you need to take a bong hit and get more spiritial. Then put on a hoody and distroy shit because you have been F&^% by [COLOR="Red"]their government[/COLOR].LOL[/quote]

I fixed that for you. I wonder what you would have been saying about those same guys back in Boston during 1773 that boarded the ships and threw the tea into the harbor.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=NC_Skins;823875]I fixed that for you. I wonder what you would have been saying about those same guys back in Boston during 1773 that boarded the ships and threw the tea into the harbor.[/quote]

They don't even compare. Those people have been killing each other day in and day out and get pissed if its a cop who shots the gun and not one of them doing the killing. Its called taking advantage of a reason to riot.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=NC_Skins;823875]I fixed that for you. I wonder what you would have been saying about those same guys back in Boston during 1773 that boarded the ships and threw the tea into the harbor.[/quote]

You must have missed the interviews where a bunch of hoodys were saying that they were punishing the rich and they wanted to show the rich they can do whatever they want.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;823880]You must have missed the interviews where a bunch of hoodys were saying that they were punishing the rich and they wanted to show the rich they can do whatever they want.[/quote]

...and who are the people in control over the government/media? The rich.



[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution]French Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]


History has a way of repeating itself.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;823880]You must have missed the interviews where a bunch of hoodys were saying that they were punishing the rich and they wanted to show the rich they can do whatever they want.[/quote]

Stupid people say stupid stuff. How have they punished the rich?

Re: London Riots
 

I have a hard time understanding apologist bleeding hearts....blows my mind.

Re: London Riots
 

I'm done with this subject. Anyone see the new bus Obama purchased with tax payers money.

Re: London Riots
 

Is it electric?

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=firstdown;823894]I'm done with this subject. Anyone see the new bus Obama purchased with tax payers money.[/quote]

But its for visiting diplomats too.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;823890]I have a hard time understanding apologist bleeding hearts....blows my mind.[/quote]


Who and where are you getting the apologist bleeding hearts from?

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;823896]But its for visiting diplomats too.[/quote]

Thats why we purchased two of them for a total of 2.2 mil. I started a thread ion this but my title was not very good.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=Hog1;823895]Is it electric?[/quote]

Only one seat on the bus needs to be electric......

:Smoker:

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=NC_Skins;823875]I fixed that for you. I wonder what you would have been saying about those same guys back in Boston during 1773 that boarded the ships and threw the tea into the harbor.[/quote]

I am hoping you are intelligent enough such that you are engaging in hyperbole and are not [I]actually[/I] comparing what happened in the Boston Tea Party to what is going on in the London Riots.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;823911]I am hoping you are intelligent enough such that you are engaging in hyperbole and are not [I]actually[/I] comparing what happened in the Boston Tea Party to what is going on in the London Riots.[/quote]

You're expecting far too much. :oink:

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=NC_Skins;823899]Who and where are you getting the apologist bleeding hearts from?[/quote]

If it walks like a duck........

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;823921]If it walks like a duck........[/quote]

You still didn't answer the question. Who's being a apologist? Certainly not me and certainly not the author of that article I posted.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=NC_Skins;823924]You still didn't answer the question. Who's being a apologist? Certainly not me and certainly not the author of that article I posted.[/quote]

You edited FDs post to make it seem like the riots are the British govts fault, and you lump rich people in with them.
Its not the govt.
Its a moral breakdown in jolly old England. A lot of assholes acting like assholes. They should have their ass kicked to the fullest extent of the law.
Yes, there are plenty of welfare takers in on the looting but its about the general breakdown of society over there.

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8705294/Doctors-daughter-admits-looting.html]Doctor's daughter admits looting - Telegraph[/url]

And I can find plenty more articles similiar to that.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;823925]You edited FDs post to make it seem like the riots are the British govts fault, and you lump rich people in with them.
Its not the govt.
Its a moral breakdown in jolly old England. A lot of assholes acting like assholes. They should have their ass kicked to the fullest extent of the law.
Yes, there are plenty of welfare takers in on the looting but its about the general breakdown of society over there.

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8705294/Doctors-daughter-admits-looting.html]Doctor's daughter admits looting - Telegraph[/url]

And I can find plenty more articles similiar to that.[/quote]


The protests and initial riots started over something the government did. I suggest you read up on the facts. The continuing riots and looting is part of the disconnect that Brand (a person that actuallly lived in those areas and grew up there and was involved in similar protests) talks about between the government and its people.

Hate to break the bad news to you, but it's going to happen here.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=NC_Skins;823928]The protests and initial riots started over something the government did. I suggest you read up on the facts. The continuing riots and looting is part of the disconnect that Brand (a person that actuallly lived in those areas and grew up there and was involved in similar protests) talks about between the government and its people.

Hate to break the bad news to you, but it's going to happen here.[/quote]

I've read a ton of stuff.... the gangster that the police killed is just an event to use as an excuse for these idiots to run amok.
If you have read so many facts you would have seen the idiots in question admit to it.

You're being an apologist again using that incident to justify this crap, like it or not, thats what you're implying.

And Brand is a hollywood idiot. You discredit your argumnent when you mention his name.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=RedskinRat;823908]Only one seat on the bus needs to be electric......

:Smoker:[/quote]

WELL played..........

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=NC_Skins;823928]The protests and initial riots started over something the government did. I suggest you read up on the facts. The continuing riots and looting is part of the disconnect that Brand (a person that actuallly lived in those areas and grew up there and was involved in similar protests) talks about between the government and its people.

Hate to break the bad news to you, but it's going to happen here.[/quote]

Yes, government action was the catalyst - police shot a man brandishing a gun at them and it appears likely that they have lied as to whether or not he shot first. While the violence that sprung up afterwards may have initially been in response to outrage, however, it continued b/c of opportunistic outlaws taking advantage of a volatile situation.

All those interviews with looters who were "feeling disconnected" with their government are just people making an excuse for stealing from others and attempting to evade personal responsibilty for their violent actions ("It's not my fault, the devil/the government/big business/rich people made me do it"). The rich/wealthy weren't targeted, government offices weren't targeted. Nothing was targeted except wanton destruction and grabbing a "few extra trainers".

Making excuses for their lack of personal responsibility and attempting to excuse their imposition of violent chaos on an otherwise lawful society is an invitation to tyranny and a recipe for deeper evil. Hitler's thugs and blackshirts were just a bunch of poor, disenfranchised workers and war veterans who felt the need to beat people up b/c they couldn't make their voices heard through the failed liberal democratic system. It was bullshit then and its bullshit now.

The system may be flawed but spontaneous, chaotic violence for the sake of spontaneous, chaotic violence is wrong under any circumstances. Your comparisons to the French and American revolutions - if intended as an appropriate analogy in any way - are laughable and somewhat disturbing. Where is the Continental Congress or the National Assembly who speak for the looters? What are their specific claims? If they [I]are[/I] disaffected, what prohibits them from taking an active part in enacting peaceful political change? Are they prohibited from speaking freely? Are they not allowed to peacefully assemble and organize? Are their civil liberties being systematically violated or denied them?

Let me save you the time. No. No. No. No. These looters are not prohibited from affecting change by anything other than their own complacency. They are unhappy with their current life and rather than working hard to peacefully change it through the existing political structures - which they are free to do (unlike the French 3rd estate and the American middle class and plantation elite who were unable to do so) - they take advantage of a poor response by law enforcement to steal and destroy private property. Don't go romanticizing these thugs - they didn't find a Bastille to storm. Instead, they stole from shopkeepers, middle class business men/women. They destroyed the ability of many people to earn a living.

This was not some politically organized statement, it was thuggery sparked by a violent catalyst - nothing more nothing less.

Re: London Riots
 

[B]This was not some politically organized statement, it was thuggery sparked by a violent catalyst - nothing more nothing less[/B]

You sound somewhat....disconnected and disenfranchised to me Joe! Perhaps you would feel better if you boosted a new flat screen???

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=NC_Skins;823928]The protests and initial riots started over something the government did. I suggest you read up on the facts. The continuing riots and looting is part of the disconnect that Brand (a person that actuallly lived in those areas and grew up there and was involved in similar protests) talks about between the government and its people.

Hate to break the bad news to you, but it's going to happen here.[/quote]

Thats fine you come into my shop or my house and it will be the last time. It may happen but the dumb ass people will tear apart their own neighborhoods like they have done in the past.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=Hog1;823950][B]This was not some politically organized statement, it was thuggery sparked by a violent catalyst - nothing more nothing less[/B]

You sound somewhat....disconnected and disenfranchised to me Joe! Perhaps you would feel better if you boosted a new flat screen???[/quote]
I would like a new flat screen , when can I have it delivered ??

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=budw38;823976]I would like a new flat screen , when can I have it delivered ??[/quote]

When the proleteriat revolution reaches its ultimate and utopian end.

Or when you and bunch of friends firebomb a local business and steal it for yourself.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=Hog1;821728]Sorry.....no guns. Perhaps they could Bobby-stick a few.....[/quote]

You are a bit behind the times. Bobbies have been armed for several years now. They had no choice once the bad guys got them.

Re: London Riots
 

Yeah the cops shot an armed "gangsta" type, that set it off, but the economic situation over there is much like ours, but being a much smaller natioin, the immigration problem is much more compounded as they can't find jobs. Neither can many youths of the native population. You have an increased number of people from different ethnic backgrounds all trying to get their piece of an ever shrinking economic pie, and eventually the anger is going to boil over, then you get some over zealous cop that whacks one of these guys and it just all goes BOOM!!!!!!!! With the economic crisis, blue collar Brits have almost turned into callous barbarians, as the use of violence to get what one wants has gained wide acceptance with the youth. The sad thing is once our house of cards falls over here, we will look much worse. No gun control here, etc, and the youth are getting more desensitized to violence, and are more accepting of using it to get what they want, ie those flash mob robberies.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;823979]You are a bit behind the times. Bobbies have been armed for several years now. They had no choice once the bad guys got them.[/quote]
It was just my........subtle satire peaking through....

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;823980]Yeah the cops shot an armed "gangsta" type, that set it off, but the economic situation over there is much like ours, but being a much smaller natioin, the immigration problem is much more compounded as they can't find jobs. Neither can many youths of the native population. You have an increased number of people from different ethnic backgrounds all trying to get their piece of an ever shrinking economic pie, and eventually the anger is going to boil over, then you get some over zealous cop that whacks one of these guys and it just all goes BOOM!!!!!!!! With the economic crisis, blue collar Brits have almost turned into callous barbarians, as the use of violence to get what one wants has gained wide acceptance with the youth. The sad thing is once our house of cards falls over here, we will look much worse.[COLOR="Red"] No gun control here,[/COLOR] etc, and the youth are getting more desensitized to violence, and are more accepting of using it to get what they want, ie those flash mob robberies.[/quote]

Really, the USA has no gun control?

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=Hog1;823940]WELL played..........[/quote]

:food-smil

It's getting way to serious up in here. Levity needed, STAT!

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=NC_Skins;823928]The protests and initial riots started over something the government did. I suggest you read up on the facts. The continuing riots and looting is part of the disconnect that Brand (a person that actuallly lived in those areas and grew up there and was involved in similar protests) talks about between the government and its people.

Hate to break the bad news to you, but it's going to happen here.[/quote]

The U.S. Government (and the U.K.) has been doing bad things for decades, mainly through ineptitude. What would you say will be the catalyst for violent action?

I think [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/A national study on child well-being published today finds 14.7 million children - 20 per cent - were poor in 2009. The research by the Annie E. Casey Foundation found child poverty increased in 38 states from 2000 to 2009.One in five in poverty: 14.7million - or 20 per cent - of children in the U.S. live in families with incomes below the federal poverty level"]poverty[/URL] is a fine motivator, and we already have that.

As for Mr. Brand, he has as much credibility or less than I do. He's not lived in the real world for decades. Funny guy, not particularly credible though.

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=RedskinRat;824049]The U.S. Government (and the U.K.) has been doing bad things for decades, mainly through ineptitude. What would you say will be the catalyst for violent action?

I think [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/A national study on child well-being published today finds 14.7 million children - 20 per cent - were poor in 2009. The research by the Annie E. Casey Foundation found child poverty increased in 38 states from 2000 to 2009.One in five in poverty: 14.7million - or 20 per cent - of children in the U.S. live in families with incomes below the federal poverty level"]poverty[/URL] is a fine motivator, and we already have that.

As for Mr. Brand, he has as much credibility or less than I do. He's not lived in the real world for decades. Funny guy, not particularly credible though.[/quote]

We have spent trillions of dollars on poverty and nothing has ever changed and it is only worse. When a mom is on wellfair and she has three kids who are on wellfair and then they have kids who are on wellfair then have kids on wellfair etc.. etc... the problem will only get worse. Not all the poor are lazy and just looking for a hand out but i'd guess 80% are and thats the problem. Back in Clintons day we passed wellfair reform but that bill has been torn apart little by little until its back to what we have today. Take the extension of unemployment. I'd guess 60 to 70% of those people are just milking the system until their benifits run out and they have to work. I've seen it with the people and friends I know.

Re: London Riots
 

wtf is wellfair

Re: London Riots
 

[quote=Mattyk;824062]wtf is wellfair[/quote]

Thats funny because I do that stuff all the time and if I dont proof read I never pick it up.