Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

I've been skeptical of Beck, but more so it's that I'm supportive of Rex. I can't quite explain it but I feel more comfortable right now with Rex as the "Oh shit! We need a QB right away backup" than I am with Beck...which has me kind of leaning toward wanting Beck as the starter.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

I voted for Grossman, soley for the reason he is a SB QB and can play in real games. To be honest I would love to see Beck take it and do great things for us, but you can't get all gaga over the guy because of one crisp performance against a crappy Colts team. Cam Newton did nice things his first preseason game, only to suck eggs his first start.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;826329]I voted for Grossman, [B]soley for the reason he is a SB QB and can play in real games[/B]. To be honest I would love to see Beck take it and do great things for us, but you can't get all gaga over the guy because of one crisp performance against a crappy Colts team. Cam Newton did nice things his first preseason game, only to suck eggs his first start.[/quote]
Solid reasoning.........

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

It's obvious that many on this post don't realize how good Rex Grossman is. He only led the Bears to the super bowl his first season as a starter. That's a huge accomplishment and he should receive plenty of respect for it and he doesn't. He has a very quick release and great anticpation of the big play. Why would you want a less talented quarterback to play?

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=jonny5dicky;826366]It's obvious that many on this post don't realize how good Rex Grossman is. He only led the Bears to the super bowl his first season as a starter. That's a huge accomplishment and he should receive plenty of respect for it and he doesn't. He has a very quick release and great anticpation of the big play. Why would you want a less talented quarterback to play?[/quote]

It's obvious you don't realize how bad he can also be.

We know what we have in Rex, why not see what Beck has to offer? Rex is a solid fall back plan for the short term.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

I voted for Beck. I liked his interview on the NFL network and the fact that he was willing to share the spotlight with his lineman. That is a sign of leadership. Also, I like his mobility and decision making in the Indy game.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

On Jan.20th 2010 this poll was conducted on which QB we thought would start the 2011 season. [url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/40578-who-will-redskins-2011-opening-day.html?highlight=poll%3A+which+Qbuaterback+will+start+the+2011+season[/url]

We've seen 1/2 of a preseason game from John Beck and the disparity, percentage wise, between he and Rex Grossman has shrunk tremendously during that eight month period. There has to be a good reason for that.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Its too early to vote now,Becks played a couple qaurters,thats it,you cant base anything on that.If he starts against the Ravens and plays well we will know a little more,but not much,even that could be misleading.
I like Grossmans approach of looking downfield and stretching the field more,I hate the dink n dunk crap.
Ive only seen Beck in one game,is it just me or does he have a wierd throwing motion? I thought a few times it looked like he was slinging some sidearm

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;826428]On Jan.20th 2010 this poll was conducted on which QB we thought would start the 2011 season. [url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/40578-who-will-redskins-2011-opening-day.html?highlight=poll%3A+which+Qbuaterback+will+start+the+2011+season[/url]

We've seen 1/2 of a preseason game from John Beck and the disparity, percentage wise, between he and Rex Grossman has shrunk tremendously during that eight month period. There has to be a good reason for that.[/quote]

Well...they are two different questions

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=htownskinfan;826436]Its too early to vote now,Becks played a couple qaurters,thats it,you cant base anything on that.If he starts against the Ravens and plays well we will know a little more,but not much,even that could be misleading.
I like Grossmans approach of looking downfield and stretching the field more,I hate the dink n dunk crap.
Ive only seen Beck in one game,is it just me or does he have a wierd throwing motion? I thought a few times it looked like he was slinging some sidearm[/quote]

For the most part I've been a supporter of John Beck from day one. I did so because I hadn't seen much of him in the past and wanted to see what he could do in this offense. My support for him has not waned because I'm a Redskin fan and whoever is under center I'll root for, but I want to see more of him under different sets of circumstances before the pendulum can be swung either up or down.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;826437]Well...they are two different questions[/quote]

Maybe, but I think the end result is basically the same. If there's a judgement there must be something to base it on.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

At this point I really don't care. Everyone is on the Beck bandwagon after one half of a pre season game. To me that's just ridiculous. I just can't judge a guy off that. I assume we're going to see both guys this year and perhaps one will seperate himself. But I really believe that this team needs to draft a guy next year.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Beck for 3 simple reasons:
1. We've seen all that Rex can do-good and bad. We aren't in a position where the QB is going to be the difference between being a SB contender or being 3-13. We are probably firmly in the 7 to 9 win range so it's best to see what we have in Beck.
2. Beck seems to have the pulse and support of the team. Not trying to overstate things from one half of one preseason game but Beck has really stepped up to become a leader, Rex seems happy to just be part of the team. I want my QB to lead by example and set a tone.
3. I really want to shut up the Mike Greenburgs and Rich Eisens of the national media who keep singing the 'JOHN BECK!?!?' chorus like he's a guy we pulled out of the accounting department of IBM and plugged him in. I hope Mike and Kyle drop a big old 'told ya so' on those guys.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;826428]On Jan.20th 2010 this poll was conducted on which QB we thought would start the 2011 season. [url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/40578-who-will-redskins-2011-opening-day.html?highlight=poll%3A+which+Qbuaterback+will+start+the+2011+season[/url]

We've seen 1/2 of a preseason game from John Beck and the disparity, percentage wise, between he and Rex Grossman has shrunk tremendously during that eight month period. There has to be a good reason for that.[/quote]

When that poll was made Shanny had not yet made public statements of support for Beck. Also, after McNabb had been yanked, Grossman played, not Beck. The lay of the speculation land was different then, even if we lay aside preseason 2011 performance.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=htownskinfan;826436]Its too early to vote now,Becks played a couple qaurters,thats it,you cant base anything on that.If he starts against the Ravens and plays well we will know a little more,but not much,even that could be misleading.
I like Grossmans approach of looking downfield and stretching the field more,I hate the dink n dunk crap.
Ive only seen Beck in one game,is it just me or does he have a wierd throwing motion? I thought a few times it looked like he was slinging some sidearm[/quote]

I saw some of that sidearm motion as well

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Beck is the easy choice. We already know what Grossman is. Beck is more of an unknown...he could be better or he could be worse. Only way to find out is to play him. We can always turn to Grossman during the season if Beck is a flop.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Lotus;826453]When that poll was made Shanny had not yet made public statements of support for Beck. Also, after McNabb had been yanked, Grossman played, not Beck. The lay of the speculation land was different then, even if we lay aside preseason 2011 performance.[/quote]

For me it was not about Shanahan and or his support for either QB. It was about opinions solicited from our posters and their support or lack thereof for those listed in the poll. I voted in the poll based on my feelings when comparing the QB's listed for comparison not having any idea how Shanahan felt about any of them...Beck/Grossman respectively since they were already on the team at the time the poll was conducted.

Look closely and you'll witness some suggesting Beck should not even be on the team, to now suggesting he should be the starter. Your word is your bond.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

A lot has changed since then. Hard to hold opinions against someone given the circumstances then vs. now.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

There's not much of a premium on opinions therefore they need not be valued. I understand.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;826469]For me it was not about Shanahan and or his support for either QB. It was about opinions solicited from our posters and their support or lack thereof for those listed in the poll. I voted in the poll based on my feelings when comparing the QB's listed for comparison not having any idea how Shanahan felt about any of them...Beck/Grossman respectively since they were already on the team at the time the poll was conducted.

Look closely and you'll witness some suggesting Beck should not even be on the team, to now suggesting he should be the starter. Your word is your bond.[/quote]

Honestly, I don't entirely follow your point here

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;826482]There's not much of a premium on opinions therefore they need not be valued. I understand.[/quote]

Given the circumstances that have changed since then, no, I don't think you can put much value on those opinions from back then.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Paintrain;826447]Beck for 3 simple reasons:
1. [B]We've seen all that Rex can do-good and bad. We aren't in a position where the QB is going to be the difference between being a SB contender or being 3-13. We are probably firmly in the 7 to 9 win range so it's best to see what we have in Beck.[/B]
2. Beck seems to have the pulse and support of the team. Not trying to overstate things from one half of one preseason game but Beck has really stepped up to become a leader, Rex seems happy to just be part of the team. I want my QB to lead by example and set a tone.
3. I really want to shut up the Mike Greenburgs and Rich Eisens of the national media who keep singing the 'JOHN BECK!?!?' chorus like he's a guy we pulled out of the accounting department of IBM and plugged him in. I hope Mike and Kyle drop a big old 'told ya so' on those guys.[/quote]

Amen brother ... the first thing I would add to this list is that Beck seems like he understands his role. He seems to understand that he hasn't done anything and how big of a responsibility it is to be the starting qb of a team (no one really knows what he's thinking but he's saying the right things). Lastly, MS and KS are really high on this guy and whether it's just a diversion, a ploy or they really believe it, these guys know good quarterbacks so I am more likely to trust their judgment -- I know, I know what about DMac? Hey, they let him go after a season, a good FO/talent evaluation team knows when they have made a mistake and corrects it ASAP and that's what happened in that situation.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;826469]For me it was not about Shanahan and or his support for either QB. It was about opinions solicited from our posters and their support or lack thereof for those listed in the poll. I voted in the poll based on my feelings when comparing the QB's listed for comparison not having any idea how Shanahan felt about any of them...Beck/Grossman respectively since they were already on the team at the time the poll was conducted.

Look closely and you'll witness some suggesting Beck should not even be on the team, to now suggesting he should be the starter. Your word is your bond.[/quote]

When DMac was benched, Beck did not play, Grossman did. Therefore there was no reason at the time of the earlier poll for me to think that Beck might start this year, which is what the earlier poll asked. That's why I voted for Rex in the earlier poll. Things changed on this point even before the preseason.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Grossman, Beck will be a very unexciting check down machine which I am not prepared for.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=IrMitchell;826520]Grossman, Beck will be a very unexciting check down machine which I am not prepared for.[/quote]

I would happily take some boring, unexciting wins over some super exciting, adrenaline pumping losses

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

As opposed to Mr. Long Ball McNabb from last year who go us sooo far.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Mattyk;826529]As opposed to Mr. Long Ball McNabb from last year who go us sooo far.[/quote]

^^t

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Ok, back with a beginner wondering: why does it seem unthinkable to have two quaterbacks? I mean, for example, Beck would be the stater, he'd play a lot more than Grossman, BUT, no one would be upset if at the end of some matches Grossman comed on the field for the last 10 minutes. Or if Beck has a little injury which doesn't necessarily prevent him from playing, Shannahan would make the decision to let Grossman start a game or two and let Beck come back when he's feeling better. Or, "hey this week at practice Grossman was better than Beck, he'll start next game, maybe next week Beck will be more in it at practice..."
I know this question will seem very very strange to football fans, but we see a lot of this in Rugby, at the higher level, and I think it's a good thing because it takes drama out of players' shoulders, they no longer pray for the other one to hurt himself, and it makes the competition for the job both permanent, more dynamic and it means less tension, and the possibility for both players to work together.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

First and foremost, that's awesome -- a French Redskins fan. Are you legit french or an american expat/american parents but born in France?

Second, yeah we could have two qbs but its better IMO to have one unquestioned leader of the offense whom you want to have the ball with 90 seconds left to drive down the field and win the game.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;826548]Ok, back with a beginner wondering: why does it seem unthinkable to have two quaterbacks? I mean, for example, Beck would be the stater, he'd play a lot more than Grossman, BUT, no one would be upset if at the end of some matches Grossman comed on the field for the last 10 minutes. Or if Beck has a little injury which doesn't necessarily prevent him from playing, Shannahan would make the decision to let Grossman start a game or two and let Beck come back when he's feeling better. Or, "hey this week at practice Grossman was better than Beck, he'll start next game, maybe next week Beck will be more in it at practice..."
I know this question will seem very very strange to football fans, but we see a lot of this in Rugby, at the higher level, and I think it's a good thing because it takes drama out of players' shoulders, they no longer pray for the other one to hurt himself, and it makes the competition for the job both permanent, more dynamic and it means less tension, and the possibility for both players to work together.[/quote]

Welcome. As far as I know its never work very well in the NFL but someone could correct me. Steve S. tried that with us back in the old ball coach days.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;826553]First and foremost, that's awesome -- a French Redskins fan. Are you legit french or an american expat/american parents but born in France?

Second, yeah we could have two qbs but its better IMO to have one unquestioned leader of the offense whom you want to have the ball with 90 seconds left to drive down the field and win the game.[/quote]

no no, real French (I thought it was obvious when reading how I write), born in Toulouse , became skins fan... don't ask why ^^

Hard to describe (or compare to football) the situation in Rugby, but each team has a leader of the offense, undisputed starter, but it's no big deal if the back up starts a game because it's a "small game" (which no longer exists at high level) or just because the coach wants to give him a shot.
But in rugby, games last 80 minutes and there are very few stops, so you have to deal with players being exhausted 20 minutes before the end of the game because some plays can last several minutes, which you obviously don't have in football (unless if a coach designed a very sofisticated play in which he wanted all elligible players to pitch eachother the ball for 2 minutes to disturb the defense or win some time but I seriously doubt this would be efficient...)

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

I know I know, but this was a great breakdown of the performances vs each preseason start considering opponent, individual play, etc

[url=http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?352052-Preseason-breakdown-Grossman%92s-Game-1-vs-Beck%92s-Game-2.-Sex-Cannon-dominates-13-4-Steelers.-Admiral-Checkdown-rolls-over-4-18-Colts.-Mike-and-Kyle-Shanahan%92s-Jedi-mind-tricks-confuse-everyone.]Preseason breakdown: Grossman’s Game 1 vs Beck’s Game 2. Sex Cannon dominates 13-4 Steelers. Admiral Checkdown rolls over 4-18 Colts. Mike and Kyle Shanahan’s Jedi mind tricks confuse everyone.[/url]

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=tryfuhl;826619]I know I know, but this was a great breakdown of the performances vs each preseason start considering opponent, individual play, etc

[url=http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?352052-Preseason-breakdown-Grossman%92s-Game-1-vs-Beck%92s-Game-2.-Sex-Cannon-dominates-13-4-Steelers.-Admiral-Checkdown-rolls-over-4-18-Colts.-Mike-and-Kyle-Shanahan%92s-Jedi-mind-tricks-confuse-everyone.]Preseason breakdown: Grossman’s Game 1 vs Beck’s Game 2. Sex Cannon dominates 13-4 Steelers. Admiral Checkdown rolls over 4-18 Colts. Mike and Kyle Shanahan’s Jedi mind tricks confuse everyone.[/url][/quote]That guy spent about four more hours on a Redskins preseason game than I would spend on their entire preseason. And I think his point is pretty airtight. Kyle Shanahan's playing a pretty darn big perception game right now. And he's winning. See: the above poll.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=IrMitchell;826520]Grossman, Beck will be a very unexciting check down machine which I am not prepared for.[/quote]

I suppose Peyton Manning "90% short and intermediate, 10% deep" ratio on his pass attempts disgusts you.

Here's the deal, NOT every short route is a ****ing checkdown. The checkdown is the LAST or "panic" option in the play. A quick slant or a quick out is not a ****ing checkdown because it's an early read.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;826548]Ok, back with a beginner wondering: why does it seem unthinkable to have two quaterbacks? .[/quote]


U need one guy and its due more for the rhythm and chemistry of the team. Its easier for the rest of the guys say the WRs on know how 1 guy throws the ball and when its gonna be deliveryed. Same for the RB getting the ball and the Oline getting use to the style of how far one guy drops back oppose to another, how he scrambles, etc. Its easier for the rest of the guys to adjust their game to one guy and creates chemistry and trust. I think it mentally much easier for one QB who knows he is the man and what he expects from the coaches. Rotating doors at starters spots in football just doesnt work as well unless say RB and that done to keep the D on its toes. Rotating door at QB usually turns into a distraction for the team.

Have they announced the starter for the ravens game? I heard both will play with the firsts, any idea how that is going to be structured?

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;826627]I suppose Peyton Manning "90% short and intermediate, 10% deep" ratio on his pass attempts disgusts you.

Here's the deal, NOT every short route is a ****ing checkdown. The checkdown is the LAST or "panic" option in the play. A quick slant or a quick out is not a ****ing checkdown because it's an early read.[/quote]

1 out of 10 deep is a team that stretches...

Grossman avgd 6 yards in the air per pass in his start, 7 without that 2 min hurry up, mostly no huddle drive

Beck's passes avgd 3 yards in the air vs the colts, a much softer preseason team (30th ranked preseason D vs Steelers 2nd ranked last year)

Grossman had more good decisions, less bad ones, and no self-caused sacks in each of their starts

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Grossman is the best quarterback that's been in Washington in forever. He's the Redskins future as in the next 3-4 years not sorry ass beck, get real.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=IrMitchell;826520]Grossman, Beck will be a very unexciting check down machine which I am not prepared for.[/quote]

Checkdowns are a result of wideouts not getting open or offensive lines not giving enough time for the qb to make his reads, not an indication of a bad quarterback. So if Beck is the checkdown king this season, it will mean we are worse off at wideout or o-line than we've been led to believe.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=tryfuhl;826639]1 out of 10 deep is a team that stretches...

Grossman avgd 6 yards in the air per pass in his start, 7 without that 2 min hurry up, mostly no huddle drive

Beck's passes avgd 3 yards in the air vs the colts, a much softer preseason team (30th ranked preseason D vs Steelers 2nd ranked last year)

Grossman had more good decisions, less bad ones, and no self-caused sacks in each of their starts[/quote]
Late EDIT: First of all, the Colts have the 13th ranked passing D while having the 30th overall D. That should tell you something about their run D.

Averages don't tell you if the men were open in the first place.

Self-caused sacks? On his second sack had the camera zoomed in and thus the WRs were no longer in the picutre. It very well could have been a coverage sack

The first one, his reads were from left-to-right. Trent was beat and had he pulled the trigger, it would have been an incompletion or interception.

The third one had his reads from right-to-left. The BLINDSIDE backup absolutely embarassed Trent Williams and hence he couldn't hit either of his targets on the left(the RB checkdown).