Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

I'd give JH another year. The D has improved a lot this year, we just need to add a few more pieces and let this thing really come together.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=skinsfan69;870267]Not a big fan of JH but we just don't have the players to be a great defense. I think the Cofield at NT has been somewhat of a failure. Orakpo is overrated. Kerrigan is a good player, but not great. He's not explosive like the rookie on SF. Even with LL the safties can't cover, and the corners are soft. The defense needs 3 elite players somewhere...whether it's a NT or end with JJ coming back or corner. We just need some elite players, not just average and slightly above average ones. Right now we don't have them.[/quote]

I kinda agree with you here. I, too, think Rak is overrated and Cofield has been a bit underwhelming but by no means has he been a bust.

On the whole, I think we have more pieces than not. Right now we're ranked 13th in total defense and quite frankly, I'd take the Skins defense over the defenses ranked 12-10. My point is, I don't think we're that far off.

One thing people tend to [B]not[/B] take into consideration when grading the Redskins defense, we have an absolute turnover machine in Rex Grossman, which tends to favor the opponent in time of possession and/or starting field position.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;870243]Did we cut Orakpo and Kerrigan? I just don't like the way Hasslet looks, he has a dumb ass look on his face all the time so therefore I think he is but that's just my ho.[/quote]

I feel you there. It's unrealistic to be the best at everything statistically.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

One of the few games where the Defense lets us down and we want to fire the coach. Psssh.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic;870239]So Vick, Cam and who ever else you listed hasn't done the same stuff to other teams they have played against. Vick and Cam are rare QB's that you have to account for both as a runner and a passer. I live in Charlotte and Cam gives every single team they play trouble. Haslett is not the problem. What else to you want dude. 32nd ranked to 10th over all ranked. I just dont get it. Dont blame him for a loss or inconsistant play. Big plays that I can remember for example against Dallas were individual players getting beat or screwing up.

[B]I can't believe people want to get rid of a coach that has visibly made our defense one of the top defenses in the NFL. mind boggling.[/[/B]QUOTE]

This (bolded) is an absurd statement. We are far from a top defense. Week to week were ranked somewhere between 10 and 15 but it's irrelevant...the gap between the top 5 ranked defenses (Steelers, Texans, Ravens, Niners and Jags) and our defense could be compared to the gap between college and pro. We just allowed the lowly, pathetic Vikings score 30+ points and there was absolutely no indication the onslought would have slowed down...if anything they we're gaining more traction. Every one of those top 5 defenses would have stuffed the Vikings to a couple field goals and maybe a touchdown, maybe.

But your whole post completely ignores the fact (and basis for the thread) Haslett cannot gameplan for mobile QBs. It's been the same through his career, another season isn't going to change that.

The real problem; however, is that his (inconsistent) defense is outperforming Mike and Kyle's offense. As a GM, franchise etc it's a bit tricky to fire a coordinator when the HC is taking a poop on the field 10 or 11 games a season. I think the franchise is at risk (once again) of not looking like a serious organisation if Mike remains the HC into another season. We're further, arguably much further based on your interpretation of Mike's history, from securing a franchise QB and the other parts of the offense are really no better than what he inherited. Based on a real results evaluation the HC should be packing his stuff a week from now, but Snyder chose (two years ago) to put himself in this awkward position of dealing with a legacy guy who in all likelihood is coaching out of spite (kicked out of Denver) rather than passion for the game.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

I'm not big on JH either. But he has done a solid job. There is nothing in his body of work with the Skins that suggests he should be fired.

Pros: He converts a good 4-3 to an above average 3-4 in 2 years. He has gotten our sacks and turnovers up.

Cons: Scheme has lacked much surprise relying on blitzes for sacks. Defense lacks closing ability, both Cowboy games, Minnesota, NY jets, and Miami game this year the defense folded in the 4th.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=The Goat;870373][QUOTE=#56fanatic;870239][B]But your whole post completely ignores the fact (and basis for the thread) Haslett cannot gameplan for mobile QBs. It's been the same through his career, another season isn't going to change that.[/B][/quote]

Finally someone that gets it.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

Please see D. Hall and Mr. Doughty for any questions regarding our incosistant defense. All other questions will be answered if you push 7 on your keypad.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;870376][quote=The Goat;870373]

Finally someone that gets it.[/quote]

LOL I think more of us realize than it seems at times. But I do think it's hard to show Haslett the door under current circumstances SFredskin.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

Sup w/ the quote box errors? Looks like I responded to myself...as if I wasn't a big enough ahole already now I'm forced to carry on my own conversations too...

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=The Goat;870379][quote=SFREDSKIN;870376]

LOL I think more of us realize than it seems at times. But I do think it's hard to show Haslett the door under current circumstances SFredskin.[/quote]

I understand, but it pisses me off that this guy has had 2 years to adjust to a mobile QB and still can't do it, drives me ****ing nuts!!. Petitbone would do it in a week.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=skinsfan69;870268]LOL! He does look kinda lost out there![/quote]

He reminds me of ol Bill Peterson the old coach for the Oilers, who would tell his players crazy stuff like get single file and pair it up in a circle or one time he sent out the punt team on 3rd down. I could see Hasslett doing that. Rest in peace coach Peterson.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

A little bit of a knee jerk reaction this thread is. I wasn't high on Hasslett coming in and I don't think he was Shanahan's first choice. I wasn't high on switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4. However, with that said, you have to look at the body of work throughout the season. The defense has improved greatly from last season. I will say this though, I was a little taken back from the fact that the Redskins were not able to stop Webb. Knowing that they watched film on the Viking's offense, you would assume they would be prepared for the trickery of putting Webb in there from time to time, but they didn't seem prepared for him at all. Seems like the 'skins were highly prepared for Ponder and A.P., and they did a heck of a job on them, but as soon as both were knocked out of the game, it was like "OK, what do we do now?"

You give Jim Hasslett at least one more year. I think the Redskins must address the secondary in the off season, which might be the answer.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

The problem with coach Haslett's defense is the secondary. Last year everybody was struggling in this 3-4 scheme- the defensive linemen, the linebackers, and the entire secondary. But while the play of the defensive line has gotten way better, and the linebackers are doing a tremendous job not only in rushing the passer but in coverage also, the secondary remains the weak link in this defense. Josh Wilson played sloppily earlier in the season and got beat alot, but he's played wonderfully since the New England game. DeAngelo Hall hasn't put together one solid game all year. He did okay against the NYG in their second contest, but he still left much to be desired. Hall has been scorched and burned all year. There's no reason to even mention LaRon Landry. The guy needs surgery. He and O.J. Atogwe have been injured all season and while Atogwe has played some decent football, he still hasn't played up to the level that he played when he was in St. Louis.

Mike Shanahan really needs to take a painstaking look at this secondary and consider upgrading it in the offseason.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

Last year new defense was implemented and we struggled. This year, we improved to a mid-level, decent defense. So we improved a ton. Our starting safeties were out most the year and our nickle corner position was maybe our worst position on d. We have seen good improvement, so no way im getting rid of Haselett. Even though i hatte inconsist

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

Damn!! Richie looked good and I bet can still coach.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/videos/Richie-Petitbon-ROF-Induction/e431ba6d-7eb6-4b0c-b6e2-54ce846db353]Richie Petitbon ROF Induction[/url]

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-sound-efx/09000d5d8257ebe4/Sound-FX-Ryan-Kerrigan?module=HP11_content_stream]NFL Videos: Sound FX: Ryan Kerrigan[/url]
Nice video of Kerrigan wired for sound.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

Somebody help me understand why Haslett is so bad. I am just not seeing it. We went from 31st to 13th in total D, top 5 in NFL on 3rd down which is a very important part of a good defense, top 5 in sacks. I am just not getting it. From 31st to 13th in one year, one draft, one free agency...

Aren't you jumping the gun. The complaint about mobile QB's, well I remember Vick whipping on Greg Williams D when he was with the Falcons. Newton hasn't been contained by any D this year. Some Redskins fans are just never satisfied. What do you want a #1 defense? Well, get rid of Haslett and that wish will be WAY further from reality than if we keep him.

Haslett has transformed this defense in one freaking season. We have talent all over the field and give him one more draft, one more FA period and I really think we are going to be outstanding.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=SkinItup;870375]I'm not big on JH either. But he has done a solid job. There is nothing in his body of work with the Skins that suggests he should be fired.

Pros: He converts a good 4-3 to an above average 3-4 in 2 years. He has gotten our sacks and turnovers up.

Cons: Scheme has lacked much surprise relying on blitzes for sacks. Defense lacks closing ability, both Cowboy games, Minnesota, NY jets, and Miami game this year the defense folded in the 4th.[/quote]

With the 3-4 you have to blitz. Very few, if any, 3-4 can get pressure if not blitzing. Closing those games were more on blown individual assignments than a combined effort by the total team defense.

Haslett is doing a fantastic job by what he was given, and transforming this D into a very very good 3-4 defense.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;870376][quote=The Goat;870373]

Finally someone that gets it.[/quote]


But your acting like mobile QB's are on all 32 teams. Mobile QB's like Vick, Newton, Webb are not a normality. Preparing for these guys is a very difficult task. Especially if they can throw in the pocket as well as they can on the run. Newton has been unstoppable no matter who he plays, Vick has as well. Which honestly, I think we did a pretty decent job against Vick when we played him this past season. Picking on a D coordinator because he seems to not handle mobile QB's is a bit too picky. How many mobile QB's are we going to play in a season...2 maybe. Now if you want to say his D is horrible at getting off the field on 3rd down, or can't get pressure, or can't stop the run, then those are legit. But to my knowledge those areas are pretty well covered.

People need to back off and realize this is how a championship team is built. Patience is required for something like this. This is so ridiculous it reminds me when SD Chargers fired Marty after going 14-2. Haslett has done a remarkable job people. from 31st to 13th. and in the top 5 in several D catagories.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=backrow;870247]I'm not saying get rid of Jim Useless. Just never wanted him to begin with.
:bdh:

His defensive track record is less than stellar except when he was a player.

Defensive rankings and statistics aside, what was our W-L record last year, and what is it again this year? Anyone? Anyone?


Yea! That's my point![/quote]


I believe the turnover machine that is our offense has the honor of accepting blame for the 5-10 record. Our Defense has been the one bright sport in the rebuilding process. Oh and our kickoff coverage. LOL

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=skinsfan69;870267]Not a big fan of JH but we just don't have the players to be a great defense. I think the Cofield at NT has been somewhat of a failure. Orakpo is overrated. Kerrigan is a good player, but not great. He's not explosive like the rookie on SF. Even with LL the safties can't cover, and the corners are soft. The defense needs 3 elite players somewhere...whether it's a NT or end with JJ coming back or corner. We just need some elite players, not just average and slightly above average ones. Right now we don't have them.[/quote]


Uh...have you watched this years games? Cofield has been stellar at NT given this is his first year ever playing that position, which leads me to believe given another year he'll be fantastic. Orakpo..overated..really?? People are looking at stats, and you have to consider Kerrigan is getting some sacks, Bowen has like 6 or 7, cofield, neild all have contributed to the sack total. Raks sacks will naturally be down given the production increase of surrounding players. I am not seeing anything true in any of the statements you have made. We have elite players on the D, Rak is only 3 years in, but made 2 probowls his first 2 years. Fletch is elite, leads the NFL in tackles at 36, I believe Hall has done a decent job.. but corners are effected by the safties, and we haven't had any help from Landry or #20 all season. Give these guys another off season, add some talent around them and we'll be a top 5 unit. We'll never be an elite D if we keep changing coaches and schemes every damn two years. I am sick of the constant change

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=The Goat;870373][QUOTE=#56fanatic;870239]So Vick, Cam and who ever else you listed hasn't done the same stuff to other teams they have played against. Vick and Cam are rare QB's that you have to account for both as a runner and a passer. I live in Charlotte and Cam gives every single team they play trouble. Haslett is not the problem. What else to you want dude. 32nd ranked to 10th over all ranked. I just dont get it. Dont blame him for a loss or inconsistant play. Big plays that I can remember for example against Dallas were individual players getting beat or screwing up.

[B]I can't believe people want to get rid of a coach that has visibly made our defense one of the top defenses in the NFL. mind boggling.[/[/B]QUOTE]

This (bolded) is an absurd statement. We are far from a top defense. Week to week were ranked somewhere between 10 and 15 but it's irrelevant...the gap between the top 5 ranked defenses (Steelers, Texans, Ravens, Niners and Jags) and our defense could be compared to the gap between college and pro. We just allowed the lowly, pathetic Vikings score 30+ points and there was absolutely no indication the onslought would have slowed down...if anything they we're gaining more traction. Every one of those top 5 defenses would have stuffed the Vikings to a couple field goals and maybe a touchdown, maybe.

But your whole post completely ignores the fact (and basis for the thread) Haslett cannot gameplan for mobile QBs. It's been the same through his career, another season isn't going to change that.

The real problem; however, is that his (inconsistent) defense is outperforming Mike and Kyle's offense. As a GM, franchise etc it's a bit tricky to fire a coordinator when the HC is taking a poop on the field 10 or 11 games a season. I think the franchise is at risk (once again) of not looking like a serious organisation if Mike remains the HC into another season. We're further, arguably much further based on your interpretation of Mike's history, from securing a franchise QB and the other parts of the offense are really no better than what he inherited. Based on a real results evaluation the HC should be packing his stuff a week from now, but Snyder chose (two years ago) to put himself in this awkward position of dealing with a legacy guy who in all likelihood is coaching out of spite (kicked out of Denver) rather than passion for the game.[/quote]


someone sounds bitter. I guess I am one that likes to look at this as we are finally doing the rebuilding (through the draft) that this organization has needed for 10 years. I look at the progress we have made as far as the infusion of youth at key positions. The Oline, RB, WR, Dline, LB, Gomes at safety. I really like the direction we are going. Bad mouth Shanny all you want, but look at the draft picks and FA pickups he made this offseason and every one of them is contributing and playing quite well. Hell, the 7th round Nield has played quite well, 6th rounder Hurt is playing well, Rookie undrafted SMith (LT) is playing well and handling some big competition playing LT. Helu, Royster..come on man can't you see the light!! LOL -
People look at things differently - I am excited to see where we are going to be in another year or two. This rebuilding through the draft takes a few years and I am willing to have a few subpar years if we are doing it the right way.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=#56fanatic;870880]Uh...have you watched this years games? Cofield has been stellar at NT given this is his first year ever playing that position, which leads me to believe given another year he'll be fantastic. Orakpo..overated..really?? People are looking at stats, and you have to consider Kerrigan is getting some sacks, Bowen has like 6 or 7, cofield, neild all have contributed to the sack total. Raks sacks will naturally be down given the production increase of surrounding players. I am not seeing anything true in any of the statements you have made. We have elite players on the D, Rak is only 3 years in, but made 2 probowls his first 2 years. Fletch is elite, leads the NFL in tackles at 36, I believe Hall has done a decent job.. but corners are effected by the safties, and we haven't had any help from Landry or #20 all season. Give these guys another off season, add some talent around them and we'll be a top 5 unit. We'll never be an elite D if we keep changing coaches and schemes every damn two years. I am sick of the constant change[/quote]

I'm sorry bro, but Rak is overrated. I don't know if you've seen his stat line vs NFC East opponents, but he's horrible. And when was the last time he had an interception, a multiple sack game -- or even a game changing sack? Sure he get's double team, but it seems to be working. All the great pass rushers and outside linebackers get their share of double teams, but it seems they have a way of taking Rak completely out of the game. No one's saying he's a bust or should be traded, but I don't think he's a top 5 guy right now.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=12thMan;870885]I'm sorry bro, but Rak is overrated. I don't know if you've seen his stat line vs NFC East opponents, but he's horrible. And when was the last time he had an interception, a multiple sack game -- or even a game changing sack? Sure he get's double team, but it seems to be working. All the great pass rushers and outside linebackers get their share of double teams, but it seems they have a way of taking Rak completely out of the game. No one's saying he's a bust or should be traded, but I don't think he's a top 5 guy right now.[/quote]


I honestly think so fans refuse to be happy or likes to complain and be miserable. It is his 2nd year in this D, 2nd playing OLB, and yeah his stats are down but dont you think that could be a result of the players around him. I dont believe he is overrated, if he was he wouldn't get doubled and chipped the entire game. Obviously O-coordinators dont think he's overrated.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

Mike Lombardi on Inside the NFL said that Haslett could be fired

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

I would be shocked to see that happen.......

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;870898]Mike Lombardi on Inside the NFL said that Haslett could be fired[/quote]

I don't think that's quite what he said. He said there could be some surprises and some changes to the staff. I suppose one could imply he meant Haslett

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=SmootSmack;870903]I don't think that's quite what he said. He said there could be some surprises and some changes to the staff. I suppose one could imply he meant Haslett[/quote]

Could he have meant Kyle landing a head coaching job somewhere else? That might be a blessing in disguise for the new QB coming in. (Assuming of course there is one....)

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsistent defense
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;870166]If there's one off season move I would like to see the Redskins to make, is to replace Jim Haslett as DC, his defenses drive me nuts. One week they play great, the next week they allow RB's and QB's to run at will. The one thing I've noticed with Haslett is that he has not been able to adjust his defense to scrambling type QB's like Vick, Newton, Webb/Ponder. 2 years now with the same problem and no fix. If Leslie Frazier or Raheem Morris get fired, I would like to see either one as a replacement. Your thoughts?[/quote]

How about we try continuity for a change? Not saying haslett is the best DC in the league but he's not a bad one either. The good teams in this league do not make kneejerk changes every offseason.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

snatch up spags

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsistent defense
 

[quote=celts32;870918]How about we try continuity for a change? Not saying haslett is the best DC in the league but he's not a bad one either. The good teams in this league do not make kneejerk changes every offseason.[/quote]


Thank goodness someone sees what I have been preaching for quite a while. Teams that are successful have continuity on both sides of the ball. He has our D from 31st to 13th, top 5 in several key areas (3rd downs, sacks) I am looking for a much bigger improvement next year after another draft and off season. Plus Jarvis will be back, Cofield and Bowen another off season to learn more of the 3-4. Riley playing from the beginning of the season. I really think we are in a position to be a top notch defense if we stay the course.

And honestly, a contender for the division next season if we keep building and adding pieces to this offense. Hell, with Rex were putting up 20+ a game the last month 1/2 and had games that we lost late.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

SS,
He said that we should monitor what happens with washington's coaching staff, and that his gut says that shanahan stays, but he feels like one or both of the coordinators would have to change, defensively and or offensively.

And yeah I say we give him another year--haslett.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

I think you definitely keep Haslett for one more year, but I have to say, if Spags is available, that would be awful tempting....

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

Spags is a 4-3 guy...we run a 3-4...ain't gonna work and the eagles are expected to get him.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;870935]Spags is a 4-3 guy...we run a 3-4...ain't gonna work and the eagles are expected to get him.[/quote]

We're (still) best suited as a 4-3 in terms of personnel. And letting Spags go to the Iggles if we could land him would be unforgivable.

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=The Goat;870945]We're (still) best suited as a 4-3 in terms of personnel. And letting Spags go to the Iggles if we could land him would be unforgivable.[/quote]

What is so great about Spags?

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=SmootSmack;870948]What is so great about Spags?[/quote]


Not being a HC thats for sure

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=SmootSmack;870948]What is so great about Spags?[/quote]

He's Super Smart on defense :)

Re: Jim Haslett's inconsist defense
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;870929]SS,
He said that we should monitor what happens with washington's coaching staff, and that his gut says that shanahan stays, but he feels like one or both of the coordinators would have to change, defensively and or offensively.

And yeah I say we give him another year--haslett.[/quote]


If that happens where we get rid of or change coaching our coaching staff, I swear it is getting hard to root for an organization that continues to set itself up for failure year in and year out. Just when you think we are going in the right direction, getting some continuity, some familiarity with offensive and defensive schemes, they change it. No one has patience and no one can expect to win consistantly if you change every damn thing after two years. OUr defense is progressing from 31st to 13th in one season!!! Why do we need to change that. Our offense is finally moving the ball, averaging 22 points a game the last 5 weeks, with rookie RB's and make shift Oline and really not a #1 true WR and Rex at QB. I just dont freaking get it why we need to change all the time. We will never win if we keep changing the f'n coaches. so damn frustrating