Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=That Guy;872475]pittsburg drafted holmes in the 1st and gave him away for a 5th. how did jeff george work out? bad picks are bad picks whether they're in the draft or FA, so let's be careful about the drafting is the only option routine. detriot? really? the team that went 0-16 and will get bounced from th playoffs in 2 games with about 42 top 5 picks... that's the example? how'd joey harrington work out btw?

the saints built through the draft? you mean like when they signed drew brees as a FA and finally ended about 432 years of losing?

new england signs FAs/trades pretty consistently. moss, dillon, ocho, welker, branch, etc etc.

the other three do draft well and are mainly comprised of picks.

but this last year we signed otagwe, wilson, cofield, bowen to big deals and tons of smaller deals (gaffney etc - FAR more than your 2 FA limit), and guess what? they worked out (otagwe is a meh).

we need 4 players - OL, QB, CB, WR and we have 2 picks where we might be able to expect help this year, so at least 2 are going to be FA signings if we want some re-assurance they'll be filled.

QB and CB are the most expensive in FA cause there just isn't much there (flynn, grimes, rogers and that's almost it). I wouldn't mind signing any of those guys and/or a WR and/or grubbs... that's 0-4, but I'd say we need at least 2 and our picks to be competitive next year (and no i don't think we should expect to wait 3 more years for the playoffs).

this isn't cerrato handing out stupid contracts to bad players, so let's get over that. haynesworth and archuleta, lloyd, hall, etc were regarded as mistakes WHEN THEY WERE SIGNED. It was bad FO evaluation and the fans don't have any control over that.[/quote]

All these teams build through the draft with all their all pro players. All these teams except for New Orleans and Houston, have drafted their QB's.

I know its an annoying cliche, but it is a QB driven league, and you going to find your franchise QB 95% of the time in the draft.

And you go on about how these teams have gotten free agents that have been good or have been busts; You Clearly Didn't Read my original post. All teams get FA's, at sometime or all the time, but the good teams build through the draft. Steelers build through the draft and their in the playoffs every year. Green Bay;do I need to go on?

This also goes back to winning. We didn't win with the old regime and their FA habits. We currently aren't winning that well with this regime. Sure they are showing promise, but in this league, everyones professional and you are expected to win and improve. (ah ah ahh hold on) Just look at San Fran, they were 5-11 last year now their 13-3. We were 6-10 last year, now we're 5-11. Until we start winning we as a franchise are still going to be viewed as a laughing stock until we change our ways. Yes we can go get SOME free agents; I'm just saying don't get crazy on them. And as for the whole 'oh we got Bowen and wilson and so and so, etc. etc.' we got them; their Solid players at best. Let me be that realistic bubble burster for you. Cofield you could argue isn't suited at the NT spot. Josh Wilson got picked on a lot this year and lost a lot of matchups. OJ wasn't a good signing considering his health and play declined as the season went on.

Did we have bad signings? No, not really. Did we have signings that I am 100% confident in? Some. Is our signings better than Vinny's? We'll see, but so far they appear to be. Did we sign too many FA's? Yes!

It just seems to be the same trend with us; "We need to build through the draft" ;"Oh man I would like so and so and ____ in FA" ; "I love all our FA signings, getting him and him and that guy and him and possibly him could be huge for us this year! If we have a good draft we could definitely have something good." ; "We had a solid draft and some great FA's, now I'm stoked and opportunistic for this season!"; "god, so and so sucks, we need to replace so and so, why did we sign him, we need to replace him. I'm just ready for this season to be over and the draft." Repeat.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=That Guy;872479]really. so you can keep using that "whole other regime"'s bad FA signings as a damnation on using FA, but their massively bad drafts don't count? that's... umm... convenient. neither one is 100% safe, but this FO has done better on both fronts, so let's not go crazy with all the "FAs suck" stuff.[/quote]

I'm just focused on FA. I didn't trust them with anything; draft or FA. They were a bad regime that has us as a bad laughing stock in the league.

To change our views around the league and to us the fans, we need to draft and draft and draft well like it appears that we've been doing and doing less lets get, lets get, we need, if we just fill in this need with him. Like I said its fine to get a guy or two, but come march (or whenever FA starts) people hear are gonna go from wanting 1-4 guys to wanting 5-10 guys. I'm just saying now keep it at 0-2, because the more we get, the worse it gets. Thats when you get a guy in FA that you had a decent need for (lets say DE for example), then when the draft comes around you pass on a DE who you clearly could have gotten. Then come the season your there with an ok DE while the other DE that you passed on in the draft is have a great year.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;872514]I'm just focused on FA. I didn't trust them with anything; draft or FA. They were a bad regime that has us as a bad laughing stock in the league.

To change our views around the league and to us the fans, we need to draft and draft and draft well like it appears that we've been doing and doing less lets get, lets get, we need, if we just fill in this need with him. Like I said its fine to get a guy or two, but come march (or whenever FA starts) people hear are gonna go from wanting 1-4 guys to wanting 5-10 guys. I'm just saying now keep it at 0-3, because the more we get, the worse it gets. Thats when you get a guy in FA that you had a decent need for (lets say DE for example), then when the draft comes around you pass on a DE who you clearly could have gotten. Then come the season your there with an ok DE while the other DE that you passed on in the draft is have a great year.[/quote]

This all started when you decided to "grill Paintrain" for suggesting adding 3 FAs at key positions. But now you're saying it should be up to 3 FAs. So what's the deal?

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=Paintrain;872502]This was more confusing than your first post, now I really don't know what the hell you're talking about..

Who is saying eschew the draft for free agency? In order to build a strong team we have to master BOTH avenues for acquiring players. So far, Shanahan has missed badly on two players, McNabb and Atogwe. Anyone else? You failed to mention the players we've added via free agency (Cofield, Bowen, Wilson) or via trade (Gaffney, Hightower, Carriker) that haven't been busts at all.

Here's a difficult reality you may need to come to terms with. Some professional athletes are assholes. Sometimes assholes are great players that can help your team win. If you want to root for choir boys then adopt your local Pop Warner team. Give me a talented prick over a polite loser. I'll be the first one posting hooray if we sign Desean Jackson because he represents the type of talent we haven't had on this team in decades. I'm not ignoring his flaws as a leader, just think we have enough character around him to keep him in line.

Since you mentioned whole other regime, then you should ignore the sins of front offices past when discussing the current offseason plan.[/quote]
I'm a better talker than typer; I'll have a long thought in my head and then say about 3/4's of it and leave out some key words. Thats just a bad habit I have; My bad.

I love DeSean Jackson; I think he's a great player. Having said that he's also a diva and headcase. He also has character problems. Fat Albert was the same way; very talented, but also a headcase me me me kind of guy. The media just licks their chops when they get headcases like those two to talk about. I completely understand why you want DeSean. If the WR's weren't so good in the draft coming out, and we had a need, then yeah I'd get him, but there are some solid WR's in the draft, And even in FA, Marques Colston would be a better value in terms of production, character, teammate etc. You can win though with headcases just as much as you can win with the nice guys.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;872519]This all started when you decided to "grill Paintrain" for suggesting adding 3 FAs at key positions. But now you're saying it should be up to 3 FAs. So what's the deal?[/quote]

type-o

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

bowen's solid at best? cofield isn't an NT? what team have you been watching.

you're arguing in circles, it's pointless. you're obviously right and no one knows what they're talking about, but its funny how the saints "build through the draft" but the best 2 players their team may have ever have are drew brees and sproles, both of whom signed as FAs.

and green bay traded for favre and got the first big FA ever in reggie white. I don't understand this crusade against FA signings. as long as the players are good it shouldn't matter. plenty of draft picks are horrible or bust, so why not take the best of both? it makes no sense to put artificial limits based on nothing beyond your opinion.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;872521]I'm a better talker than typer; I'll have a long thought in my head and then say about 3/4's of it and leave out some key words. Thats just a bad habit I have; My bad.[/quote]That's a good thing to consider before you decide to grill somebody. You may now remove your foot from your own mouth.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

These three plays represent best how I feel about RG3.
[YT]XlsCQA9H3Sw[/YT]

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=Paintrain;872502]Who is saying eschew the draft for free agency? In order to build a strong team we have to master BOTH avenues for acquiring players. So far, Shanahan has missed badly on two players, McNabb and Atogwe. Anyone else? You failed to mention the players we've added via free agency (Cofield, Bowen, Wilson) or via trade (Gaffney, Hightower, Carriker) that haven't been busts at all.[/quote]To try to put this back on track, he missed on:

-Donovan McNabb
-Larry Johnson
-O.J. Atogwe
-Mike Williams (this was just bizarre)
-Artis Hicks
-Jammal Brown
-Ma'ake Kemoeatu
-Joey Galloway
-Roydell Williams
-Rocky McIntosh
-Santana Moss
-John Beck

With the criteria that they must have signed for and underperformed (which is typically relative) for the current regime, that's a pretty exhaustive list. The questionable releases list is about 2/3rds that long.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;872541]To try to put this back on track, he missed on:

-Donovan McNabb
-Larry Johnson
-O.J. Atogwe
-Mike Williams (this was just bizarre)
-Artis Hicks
-Jammal Brown
-Ma'ake Kemoeatu
-Joey Galloway
-Roydell Williams
-Rocky McIntosh
-Santana Moss
-John Beck

With the criteria that they must have signed for and underperformed (which is typically relative) for the current regime, that's a pretty exhaustive list. The questionable releases list is about 2/3rds that long.[/quote]

And why is Santana Moss on that list? I personally feel that Shanny had to scrap the bottom of the barrel in FA just to start patching the sh!# job Cerrato left the team in after all these years. That's why you have all these players that obviously weren't elite level talent.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;872541]To try to put this back on track, he missed on:

-Donovan McNabb
-Larry Johnson
-O.J. Atogwe
-Mike Williams (this was just bizarre)
-Artis Hicks
-Jammal Brown
-Ma'ake Kemoeatu
-Joey Galloway
-Roydell Williams
-Rocky McIntosh
-Santana Moss
-John Beck

With the criteria that they must have signed for and underperformed (which is typically relative) for the current regime, that's a pretty exhaustive list. The questionable releases list is about 2/3rds that long.[/quote]

And why is Santana Moss on that list? I personally feel that Shanny had to scrap the bottom of the barrel in FA just to start patching the sh!# job Cerrato left the team in after all these years. That's why you have all these players that obviously weren't elite level talent. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;872541]To try to put this back on track, he missed on:

-Donovan McNabb
-Larry Johnson
-O.J. Atogwe
-Mike Williams (this was just bizarre)
-Artis Hicks
-Jammal Brown
-Ma'ake Kemoeatu
-Joey Galloway
-Roydell Williams
-Rocky McIntosh
-Santana Moss
-John Beck

With the criteria that they must have signed for and underperformed (which is typically relative) for the current regime, that's a pretty exhaustive list. The questionable releases list is about 2/3rds that long.[/quote]

Of these guys only McNabb, Beck, Atogwe, Brown and possibly Hicks were guys counted on to make a difference. The rest were, in my opinion, simply guys MS took a flyer on or stop gap folks who did not have a big impact on the ability to subsequently acquire talent (i.e. - delayed development of youth or limited flexibility in free agency). As to MS's "big" signings Wilson, Cofield and Bowen seem to have been solid signings. (Also, I disagree with your take on the M. Williams thing - he was dirt cheap and was progressing nicely until his injury and, if I recall your game analysis, was one of the better linemen when he played)(Also, did we overpay for S. Moss? Maybe, but, in light of our options at the position, I disagree that he was a "miss".

As for the questionable releases, I am sure there are a few. At the same time, every roster in the league (including ours: Jabar Gaffney, K. Lichten, L. Fletcher, W. Montgomery, S. Rocca) includes guys - either through free agency or outright release - that other teams gave up on, didn't value, etc. who later turn things around. Hell, B. Lloyd bilked a few teams before he got his act together. It happens. Has it happened here? Yup. You seem to believe it has happened to MS an inordinate amount. Without a detailed look at other rosters, I think that is a leap.

I get the "MS is not a good talent evaluator" line - that was his rap in Denver and it has followed him here after his epic fail on McNabb. At the same time, I look at the successes he has had in the last two years (Riley, Bowen, Cofield, Wilson, this year's crop of rookies, Carriker, D. Young, Gaffney (again)) and see the aquisition of some good young talent with a sprinkling of maturity.

Bottom line, while the talent management has not been exemplary, it has not sucked either. It seems to me to be somewhere near the league norm with the potential to be much better dependent upon this off season. All the "diamonds in the rough" were not retained for more development; at the same time, some were and some were acquired from other teams. Although MS/BA missed on a couple of important acquisitions, they hit on a few also. Other than the McNabb trade and the reliance on Beck/Grossman, there haven't been any other (in my opinion) epically bad moves. In fact, the trades of McNabb and Haynesworth seem to have gotten us something when nothing was expected. Further, to balance the mismanagement of the QB slot, we have just had the type of draft that may allow the sort of flexibility in talent development/acquisition that this franchise has not had in years, decades even. A follow-up draft in 2012 that even approaches the 2011 one would set right many a wrong. In fact, if the 2012 offseason talent acquisition/managemnt is a duplicate or approaches the 2011 offseason of the same, I will feel pretty damn good about this team for 2012 and beyond.

Like I said, to date, the MS/BA talent management team has, IMHO, been solid if unspectacular (with a couple of truly bad decisions) and, come this time next year, we will see if it can join the ranks of the well managed teams or if MS/BA are just are just singing the same old song to a different melody.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;872539]That's a good thing to consider before you decide to grill somebody. You may now remove your foot from your own mouth.[/quote]

When I'm wide awake, my thoughts get out, when its late at night, its like I said earlier. I should just grill you now for saying such a comment, instead of later tonight!


And Thank you for pointing out the other big name guys we got LJ Willie Parker Maake Kemoeatu, they were bad signings too. Luckily we didn't pay much to get them, however thats valuable roster spots which rookies could have had than those old vets.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=That Guy;872531]bowen's solid at best? cofield isn't an NT? what team have you been watching.

you're arguing in circles, it's pointless. you're obviously right and no one knows what they're talking about, but its funny how the saints "build through the draft" but the best 2 players their team may have ever have are drew brees and sproles, both of whom signed as FAs.

and green bay traded for favre and got the first big FA ever in reggie white. I don't understand this crusade against FA signings. as long as the players are good it shouldn't matter. plenty of draft picks are horrible or bust, so why not take the best of both? it makes no sense to put artificial limits based on nothing beyond your opinion.[/quote]

both those guys I've mentioned at the top have been solid guys for us this year. Our best DLineman was probably Carriker based on the fact he had, what like 6 sacks? I remember people here on this board questioning if cofield was suited for the NT spot after some of his performances in games this year. He wasn't a bad signing, nor was he that great difference maker. Over Maake who we had last year; yeah he was better. But was he the best option? No, not when Aubrayo Franklin was still out there and accepted a 1 year deal for 4 million.

And you didn't read my originial post. I said that these guys go out and get 1 to 2 free agents a year. Brees was in 2006. Sproles was 2011. Franklin was 2011. Greer and Sharper were 2009. They didn't get all these guys in one year. I'm saying you got to sprinkle in some free agency signings, not use them as the main ingredient to make your team.

Still confused? Message me because I don't feel like filling up a thread dedicated to RG3 be filled about FA talk.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;872651]When I'm wide awake, my thoughts get out, when its late at night, its like I said earlier. I should just grill you now for saying such a comment, instead of later tonight!


And Thank you for pointing out the other big name guys we got LJ Willie Parker Maake Kemoeatu, they were bad signings too. Luckily we didn't pay much to get them, however [B]thats valuable roster spots which rookies could have had than those old vets.[/B][/quote]

What valuable rookies? Who did we forego by signing LJ, Parker and Kemoetu? They were cheap bottom feeders. Given who was cut and who wasn't in 2009, I am not convinced they had any impact on this team's development at all. The only player I remember being of value was a A. Bryant who is still with the Eagles as 4-3 DT but who isn't even listed on their depth chart. [url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/phi/formation/4-3-defense]Philadelphia Eagles 2011 Depth Chart - Base 4-3 D - ESPN[/url].

When Belichick trades for trash like Haynesworth in hopes of a career renaissance it's hailed as brilliant. When we pick guys off the scrap heap in hopes of that they will have a career renaissance, it's "a waste of a roster space".

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;872658]both those guys I've mentioned at the top have been solid guys for us this year. Our best DLineman was probably Carriker based on the fact he had, what like 6 sacks? I remember people here on this board questioning if cofield was suited for the NT spot after some of his performances in games this year. He wasn't a bad signing, nor was he that great difference maker. Over Maake who we had last year; yeah he was better. But was he the best option?[B] No, not when Aubrayo Franklin was still out there and accepted a 1 year deal for 4 million.[/B]

And you didn't read my originial post. I said that these guys go out and get 1 to 2 free agents a year. Brees was in 2006. Sproles was 2011. Franklin was 2011. Greer and Sharper were 2009. They didn't get all these guys in one year. I'm saying you got to sprinkle in some free agency signings, not use them as the main ingredient to make your team.

Still confused? Message me because I don't feel like filling up a thread dedicated to RG3 be filled about FA talk.[/quote]

Um....I think you might be this week's winner. Let me confer with GMScud

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;872640]Of these guys only McNabb, Beck, Atogwe, Brown and possibly Hicks were guys counted on to make a difference. The rest were, in my opinion, simply guys MS took a flyer on or stop gap folks who did not have a big impact on the ability to subsequently acquire talent (i.e. - delayed development of youth or limited flexibility in free agency). As to MS's "big" signings Wilson, Cofield and Bowen seem to have been solid signings. (Also, I disagree with your take on the M. Williams thing - he was dirt cheap and was progressing nicely until his injury and, if I recall your game analysis, was one of the better linemen when he played)(Also, did we overpay for S. Moss? Maybe, but, in light of our options at the position, I disagree that he was a "miss".

As for the questionable releases, I am sure there are a few. At the same time, every roster in the league (including ours: Jabar Gaffney, K. Lichten, L. Fletcher, W. Montgomery, S. Rocca) includes guys - either through free agency or outright release - that other teams gave up on, didn't value, etc. who later turn things around. Hell, B. Lloyd bilked a few teams before he got his act together. It happens. Has it happened here? Yup. You seem to believe it has happened to MS an inordinate amount. Without a detailed look at other rosters, I think that is a leap.

I get the "MS is not a good talent evaluator" line - that was his rap in Denver and it has followed him here after his epic fail on McNabb. At the same time, I look at the successes he has had in the last two years (Riley, Bowen, Cofield, Wilson, this year's crop of rookies, Carriker, D. Young, Gaffney (again)) and see the aquisition of some good young talent with a sprinkling of maturity.

Bottom line, while the talent management has not been exemplary, it has not sucked either. It seems to me to be somewhere near the league norm with the potential to be much better dependent upon this off season. All the "diamonds in the rough" were not retained for more development; at the same time, some were and some were acquired from other teams. Although MS/BA missed on a couple of important acquisitions, they hit on a few also. Other than the McNabb trade and the reliance on Beck/Grossman, there haven't been any other (in my opinion) epically bad moves. In fact, the trades of McNabb and Haynesworth seem to have gotten us something when nothing was expected. Further, to balance the mismanagement of the QB slot, we have just had the type of draft that may allow the sort of flexibility in talent development/acquisition that this franchise has not had in years, decades even. A follow-up draft in 2012 that even approaches the 2011 one would set right many a wrong. In fact, if the 2012 offseason talent acquisition/managemnt is a duplicate or approaches the 2011 offseason of the same, I will feel pretty damn good about this team for 2012 and beyond.

Like I said, to date, the MS/BA talent management team has, IMHO, been solid if unspectacular (with a couple of truly bad decisions) and, come this time next year, we will see if it can join the ranks of the well managed teams or if MS/BA are just are just singing the same old song to a different melody.[/quote]I think it's more than possible that no team truly has sucky talent evaluation, and every GM in the league has a defense for keeping his job somewhere in his record. The Redskins may not be any different than the worst teams with the worst records in this aspect. I mean, Matt Millen hasn't been employed by an NFL team for three seasons, but he's still the go-to punchline for people making fun of talent evaluators. Al Davis isn't alive anymore.

I think the only main disagreements I have with you here are that we can look around the league and you'd be hard pressed to find a team that has managed its talent worse. I think a lot of fans will do analyses where they just write off everything that the Redskins did in 2010, blame it on Cerrato, and then compare the 2011 season to other teams and find out that the Redskins stack up pretty well with other teams, including other teams in their own division.

But if you go back to the start of Shanallen, I don't think any one franchise has done less with more. I think you can go out and find teams whose list of failed additions match the length of that list over the last two years, and you can find other teams who have made a number of really silly releases who have gone on to find success elsewhere. You can find teams like the Bears (in 2009), Cardinals, and Raiders who overpaid for quarterbacks just like the Redskins did. You can find successful teams who have struggled just as much over the last couple years to build a roster as the Redskins.

But I don't think we can stretch the evidence to put the Redskins into the middle of the pack over the timeframe of 2010-2012. They are, charitably, in the bottom third of the NFL in building up a roster in the last two years.

And the reason there is such a prolific misunderstanding for what the Redskins have actually accomplished is because it became so popular to put whatever went wrong in Shanahan's first year on what Cerrato had done the past two years. Look around these parts. It's still really popular to blame Cerrato for the lack of success enjoyed by Shanahan.

***

To try to support my point, I want to name other teams that have a talent issue, similar to the Redskins, that prevents them from being a winning team on the field.

-Jacksonville Jaguars
-Tampa Bay Buccaneers
-Minnesota Vikings
-Cleveland Browns
-St. Louis Rams
-Seattle Seahawks
-Buffalo Bills
-Arizona Cardinals
-Indianapolis Colts?

And I will open up the floor for anyone who wants to totally rip one or more of these teams for totally silly personnel moves that make us so lucky to have our roster and coaching staff lead by Mike Shanahan's wisdom. In the won/loss column, these teams have been just as bad as the Redskins. So if we're rebuilding the right way, we're doing stuff better than them, right?

Or at the very least, we should be able to get a list of personnel gaffes longer than those of the Redskins over the last two years, right?

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;872541]To try to put this back on track, he missed on:

-Donovan McNabb
-Larry Johnson
-O.J. Atogwe
-Mike Williams (this was just bizarre)
-Artis Hicks
-Jammal Brown
-Ma'ake Kemoeatu
-Joey Galloway
-Roydell Williams
-Rocky McIntosh
-Santana Moss
-John Beck

With the criteria that they must have signed for and underperformed (which is typically relative) for the current regime, that's a pretty exhaustive list. The questionable releases list is about 2/3rds that long.[/quote]

most of those guys were vet mins, which fail/wash out pretty consistently, and I also don't know how moss made that list. mcnabb and beck are obviously awful, and atogwe can't stay healthy (and hasn't played great either compared to his contract). I don't see a reason to ever pay safeties or RBs big money though unless they're like AP or sean taylor.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;872707]Um....I think you might be this week's winner. Let me confer with GMScud[/quote]

What?

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=That Guy;872889]most of those guys were vet mins, which fail/wash out pretty consistently, and I also don't know how moss made that list. mcnabb and beck are obviously awful, and atogwe can't stay healthy (and hasn't played great either compared to his contract). I don't see a reason to ever pay safeties or RBs big money though unless they're like AP or sean taylor.[/quote]Well, if you throw out the vet mins in Galloway, Williams, and McIntosh, that's still a pretty significant list. The reason I listed Galloway, Williams, and McIntosh but not Willie Parker is because Parker didn't make the roster, so like Bobby Wade or Mike Furrey, he's a meaningless signing. No harm done.

Moss is there because he got a new contract, then didn't have a very good year. Obviously the injury hurt. But not catching half the balls that come your way when you don't go deep anymore is not what you're looking for.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;872912]Well, if you throw out the vet mins in Galloway, Williams, and McIntosh, that's still a pretty significant list. The reason I listed Galloway, Williams, and McIntosh but not Willie Parker is because Parker didn't make the roster, so like Bobby Wade or Mike Furrey, he's a meaningless signing. No harm done.

Moss is there because he got a new contract, then didn't have a very good year. Obviously the injury hurt. But not catching half the balls that come your way when you don't go deep anymore is not what you're looking for.[/quote]

did we turn down better bodies for all those 1mill and under guys though? cause everyone knew galloway sucked, but we didn't have much here to replace him with. If you're saying we should have, well, I guess I'd have to agree, but I can't remember now who was there they we could have gotten and didn't (and knew about at that time, not 2 years and a surprise pro bowl year later).

I definitely remember this last offseason thinking we were a QB and 3 OL short of where we needed to be. moss was a disappointment for sure, but at the time I though gaffney was a great and super cheap addition (an 800 yard type guy).

btw, landry's already delayed surgery a month longer than he should have. the whole "I don't need surgery" thing is NOT making me happy.
that also makes the decision on him harder.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=That Guy;872953]did we turn down better bodies for all those 1mill and under guys though? cause everyone knew galloway sucked, but we didn't have much here to replace him with. If you're saying we should have, well, I guess I'd have to agree, but I can't remember now who was there they we could have gotten and didn't (and knew about at that time, not 2 years and a surprise pro bowl year later).

I definitely remember this last offseason thinking we were a QB and 3 OL short of where we needed to be. moss was a disappointment for sure, but at the time I though gaffney was a great and super cheap addition (an 800 yard type guy).

btw, [B]landry's already delayed surgery a month longer than he should have[/B]. the whole "I don't need surgery" thing is NOT making me happy.
that also makes the decision on him harder.[/quote]
I would love to know what the rationale is behind this.....

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

^ Yeah what the F is up with that?

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

He wanted other opinions.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;873087]He wanted other opinions.[/quote]

Still, what more does he need to hear? He didn't have surgery this past offseason, and look how it worked out for him. Get it fixed ASAP, bite the bullet and do your rehab, come back 100%. He's a knucklehead.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

Easy for us to say.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

By not making a move, is he not flirting with not playing next season or at least a shortened season if he should need surgery?

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=That Guy;872953]btw, landry's already delayed surgery a month longer than he should have. the whole "I don't need surgery" thing is NOT making me happy.
that also makes the decision on him harder.[/quote]SMH.
He needs to have the surgery.
Stop lifting like a body builder; work on core strength, speed and agility.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

Speaking of RG3

[url=http://eye-on-football.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/34210720]Let 'Redskins will trade up for RGIII' rumors fly - CBSSports.com[/url]

...who knows, we're 3 1/2 months away but anything can happen

I just want a qb

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

I've been on the RG3 bandwagon, so I would be in favor of trading up to the #2 pick, even if that meant trading this year's #1 and #2, and next year's #1. The QB talent dropoff after Luck and Griffin is steep.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=SouperMeister;873600]I've been on the RG3 bandwagon, so I would be in favor of trading up to the #2 pick, even if that meant trading this year's #1 and #2, and next year's #1. [B]The QB talent dropoff after Luck and Griffin is steep.[/B][/quote]

True it appears as that Now, but like last year, wait till the senior bowl and pro days. Perfect example, Andy Dalton. He was listed as if I remember correctly, a 2-3 round pick before senior bowl and pro day. After his pro day, he was listed as a possible later 1st rounder. I'm going to be very curious to see how Kellen Moore, Nick Foles and Ryan Tannehill play in the senior bowl in a pro style offense they have 1 week to learn.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

I know Smoot had alluded to this earlier, but let's send our 2012 1st, Orakpo and 2013 2nd for the Rams #2.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=NM Redskin;873654]I know Smoot had alluded to this earlier, but let's send our 2012 1st, Orakpo and 2013 2nd for the Rams #2.[/quote]

I'm only giving up Orakpo if its in a trade for Luck. RG3 isn't worth giving up an all pro like Orakpo.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

I am sure it has already been talked about, but the Browns a expected to move up to take RG3

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;873093]Easy for us to say.[/quote]

true, but we aren't the ones who will be missing out on millions of dollars either.

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;876650]I am sure it has already been talked about, but the Browns a expected to move up to take RG3[/quote]

As are the Redskins, as are the Dolphins (which is the team I think will actually get him)

And, as crazy as this sounds, I've heard yet again that the Broncos are looking to make a serious move for RG 3

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

No shock for Denver they were rumored to be in the Cam Newton mix last year

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;872692]What valuable rookies? Who did we forego by signing LJ, Parker and Kemoetu? They were cheap bottom feeders. Given who was cut and who wasn't in 2009, I am not convinced they had any impact on this team's development at all. The only player I remember being of value was a A. Bryant who is still with the Eagles as 4-3 DT but who isn't even listed on their depth chart. [url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/phi/formation/4-3-defense]Philadelphia Eagles 2011 Depth Chart - Base 4-3 D - ESPN[/url].

[B]When Belichick trades for trash like Haynesworth in hopes of a career renaissance it's hailed as brilliant. When we pick guys off the scrap heap in hopes of that they will have a career renaissance, it's "a waste of a roster space".[/B][/quote]

That was one of the best things Ive read on this site in a while, but in order to make a brilliant "move", you have to have a brilliant "coach". One, say, that doesnt have the following stat attached to his hall of fame career maybe?

[I]On the other hand, there’s this: if he fails to do so this year (highly likely after the last two games), Mike Shanahan will have only won a division title in 3 of the 18 seasons in which he was head coach.[/I]

excerpted from - [url=http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/11/02/when-mike-shanahan-is-no-better-than-jim-zorn-thats-a-problem/]When Mike Shanahan is No Better Than Jim Zorn, That’s a Problem | The Big Lead[/url]

Re: What is RG3 worth to us?
 

Didn't know where to put this quote from rotoworld. Here is an RG3 tidbit and a little hope


Robert Griffin III - QB - Player

The Akron Beacon Journal expects the Browns to stay put at the No. 4 overall draft slot if they can't find a way to trade down.
Beat reporter Nate Ulrich points to GM Tom Heckert's tendency to "covet" draft picks, and believes the Browns will not trade up for Baylor QB Robert Griffin. NFL Network's Albert Breer and Jason La Canfora both think the Dolphins and Redskins are candidates to move up for Griffin. The Browns are known to be high on the 2011 Heisman winner, but may only get RG3 if he falls to No. 4.