Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

How could anyone say we had an ordinary off-season? We pulled off one of the largest trades of all time. I loved it, but I'll accept it if you didn't; what I don't accept is thinking this off season was "ordinary."

Ever move we made this offseason was out of NECESSITY. Because of our need for a franchise qb, we had the need to trade. Because of the trade, we have many more future needs that we cannot fill with our draft picks. When young players are available for us to get, we need to move earth to get them as we do not have the resources to fill our positions otherwise.

Yes it is a risky offseason that will be evaluated later, but if you don't ever take a risk, you'll never get a reward, and even if this trade does not work out, I commend us for trying to build a franchise for the future as opposed to us normally exclusively trying to "win now." "A" grade all the way from me.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

Look at it this way. The Redskins upgraded on offense in the areas that needed upgrading the most. While the offensive line is questionable in a few areas, they are only an upgrade or two of being a top flight offensive line. I like the additions of Garcon and Morgan at WR. Now, we're waiting for the draft that will completely balance out the roster and assist the goals set by the front office in order to build a winner.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

A+!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everything I hoped for and expected.

Would like another safety option in the draft and some OL depth but nothing they do from here on out could lower my grade.

I will say 9-7 and barely miss the playoffs.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=#56fanatic;908114]I gave it a B (B- to be exact) We really haven't taken care of the Oline as I expected us to do when we traded up for Griffin. I know everyone is excited about the WR position and the upgrades. I am a tad skeptical because neither of the additions were #1's with their respective teams. It remains to be seen how they will be used here, who will be the #1, if it will be a #1 by committee so to speak.

Also the London Fletcher thing is a bit troubling. They just signed Torrence (which isn't a huge amount of money) but I think they should have signed Fletch right from the get go.

Moving up to #2 gives them a huge jump in my rating. If not they may have gotten a D so far. Moving up to get the "franchise QB" is something this franchise hasn't really done in a while. Also, having a player with RGIII's caliber and talents is something I can NEVER remember this franchise having. Big props on moving up to get him.[/quote]

My problem with your assertion that we need to take care of the O-line is it is very hard for us fans to evaluate O-linemen who are not either top or bottom talent. We tried, but did not have the money to get the top talent due to the cap restrictions, and who are we to say that the middle guys are truly enough of an upgrade over what we have to mess with the O-line chemistry?

The Fletcher thing you are saying is ridiculous. I don't even have to look when I say I'm positive Torrence got the league minimum. Fletcher is going to want money that we do not have to give him. We want Fletcher back, but unless he is willing to settle for less, we just don't have the space. Also even if he were to take a paycut to lets say 2 million (not going to happen), I still would take Merriweather or Morgan over him. Those guys have potential to be on the team for some time while Fletcher has 1-2 years of mediocrity left.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=skinster;908188]My problem with your assertion that we need to take care of the O-line is it is very hard for us fans to evaluate O-linemen who are not either top or bottom talent. We tried, but did not have the money to get the top talent due to the cap restrictions, and who are we to say that the middle guys are truly enough of an upgrade over what we have to mess with the O-line chemistry?

The Fletcher thing you are saying is ridiculous. I don't even have to look when I say I'm positive Torrence got the league minimum. Fletcher is going to want money that we do not have to give him. We want Fletcher back, but unless he is willing to settle for less, we just don't have the space. Also even if he were to take a paycut to lets say 2 million (not going to happen), I still would take Merriweather or Morgan over him. [B] Those guys have potential to be on the team for some time while Fletcher has 1-2 years of mediocrity left[/B].[/quote]

:doh:

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

I say around a D. Not impressed w/ the off season and it looks as if the front office has grown desperate. Adding Garcon was a solid move, he's a good player, but I prefer that we bolster RT and guard before adding wr's...since we already have wr's on the roster that haven't been given a fair shot. Disapprove of signing Morgan. That move was just overkill. His best year is 52 catches and 3 td's. The DB moves are all just for the purpose of adding bodies. None of these guys are 16 game starters. Although I love the kid, I think the price for RG3 was just too steep. Hopefully we can find some gems in the draft.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=Monkeydad;908106]We have to keep in perspective how Goodell severely handicapped our offseason with the bogus cap penalty just hours before FA started. We didn't have all of our expected cap space.


I'll take [B]B[/B] because of the RGIII pick-up and loading up on quality WRs to support him. We FINALLY have a franchise QB. [B]"Strong, better than expected" perfectly describes what we did with the cap situation we were unfairly thrown into.[/B]

What's keeping it from being an A is not signing London Fletcher. We also need a new starting RT...but we do have the draft to address that position along with the secondary. Jammal Brown is very good when healthy, but that's the problem, he needs to stay healthy.[/quote]

We're not going to truly know if RG3 is a franchise QB until he gets on the field. I think he's got a great shot at it but a lot of that depends on what's around him. Not just players but front office goes with that. If Shanahan goes 3-5 wins next year will Snyder be patient? The worse thing that can happen to this kid is what happened to Jason Campbell. He needs stability aka..Brady, Ben, both Manning's, Rivers, Brees...

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

Grading the moves now is like giving someone a grade before they even take a test. I like the moves so far, but we still have the draft and plenty of more roster shaping ahead.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=skinsfan69;908193]I say around a D. Not impressed w/ the off season and it looks as if the front office has grown desperate. Adding Garcon was a solid move, he's a good player, but I prefer that we bolster RT and guard before adding wr's...since we already have wr's on the roster that haven't been given a fair shot. [B]Disapprove of signing Morgan. That move was just overkill. His best year is 52 catches and 3 td's.[/B] The DB moves are all just for the purpose of adding bodies. None of these guys are 16 game starters. Although I love the kid, I think the price for RG3 was just too steep. Hopefully we can find some gems in the draft.[/quote]

I think if it was a 4, 5 year 20+ million dollar deal i might agree, but his contract is really no risk. 2 year deal where we get to find out if he can become a stronger player. Shanny reallllly wanted this guy and there was a lot of interest from other teams. I think he could be an asset.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

i give the FO an A . . . not for the final product, but the biggest need the Skins have is QB . . . and they did everything they had to do to move up and select either RGIII or Luck . . . thats really makes this offseason and A by itself as if they turn out to be the player everyone thinks they can the Skins will be a much better team for the next decade and a half . . . everything else is just butter . . .

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=Chico23231;908231]I think if it was a 4, 5 year 20+ million dollar deal i might agree, but his contract is really no risk. 2 year deal where we get to find out if he can become a stronger player. Shanny reallllly wanted this guy and there was a lot of interest from other teams. I think he could be an asset.[/quote]

I can see people not liking Garcon's contract, but Morgan was a low risk signing.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=Mattyk;908221]Grading the moves now is like giving someone a grade before they even take a test. I like the moves so far, but we still have the draft and plenty of more roster shaping ahead.[/quote]

Agreed.

I'd like to have seen an additional option. 'Let's see what results we get this season in the W/L columns'.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=Mattyk;908259]I can see people not liking Garcon's contract, but Morgan was a low risk signing.[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. Garcon needs to make a big, immediate impact to justify the contract. I have no problem w/ Morgan on the other hand.

[QUOTE=The Goat;908276]My thoughts exactly. Garcon needs to make a big, immediate impact to justify the contract. I have no problem w/ Morgan on the other hand.[/QUOTE]

He will , fast and a very good route runner.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;908284]He will , fast and a very good route runner.[/quote]

...also (mostly) inconsistent. He had a handful of big games last year otherwise pretty average. If Garcon really produces at the level of his contract then I'm annoyed w/ the opportunity cost but happy to have a younger WR. If Garcon doesn't produce it will be yet another major flub by this FO.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

C-

No Flect, I don't need to explain this.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=The Goat;908286]...also (mostly) inconsistent. He had a handful of big games last year otherwise pretty average. If Garcon really produces at the level of his contract then I'm annoyed w/ the opportunity cost but happy to have a younger WR. If Garcon doesn't produce it will be yet another major flub by this FO.[/quote]

It's hard to tell if his down games were because of Garcon or because of the immortal Curtis Painter. :)

Really depends on what the outcome of arbitration is. If we are able to recoup cap space then I'm in love. If we have no first round pick coupled with no cap space next offseason I'm going to be less than thrilled.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

They made some good moves with questionable compensation.
They've also made some ouright questionable signings.
They haven't upgraded the OL.

Thus far I would grade FA a [I][B]C-[/B][/I] with a curve thrown in fueled by Griffin based homerism.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=Lotus;908296]It's hard to tell if his down games were because of Garcon or because of the immortal Curtis Painter. :)[/quote]Garcon had more than a fair share of tough days with Manning has his quarterback. Then again, he didn't have the luxury to be brought in gradually like Reggie Wayne did. Marvin Harrison's career ended pretty abruptly.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=Chico23231;908231]I think if it was a 4, 5 year 20+ million dollar deal i might agree, but his contract is really no risk. 2 year deal where we get to find out if he can become a stronger player. Shanny reallllly wanted this guy and there was a lot of interest from other teams. I think he could be an asset.[/quote]I think this is an incorrect characterization of Morgan's contract. It's short-term, big-money (so unlike Garcon, theres' no upside on the backend if the player becomes an integral part of the offense), and we've deferred some of the signing bonus to 2014 when we'll have more cap dollars.

I went back and watched every snap Morgan played last year and came away a bit disappointed because he had fantastic numbers and I expected to see an explosive downfield threat who could run away from corners. What I saw was a scheme that asked him to run routes underneath the corner. I saw a precise route runner who could separate from all but the top corner on the other team (Leon Hall, for example). Morgan has a nice, wide catching radius that gives the quarterback a lot of space to get the ball in, and he has a little bit of straight-line speed to run away from linebackers and safeties after the catch. You can send him over the middle, and he's comfortable there as he is on the edge. His best routes were the deep comeback and the slant. You can run a 'Z option' with him.

He had an obscenely high catch rate, so it's hard to argue that SF was using him improperly. He's probably a small upgrade over Gaffney, which means a 1,000 yard first season here is hardly out of the question (but it's unlikely because he'll be splitting snaps with Hankerson, who might even be better).

Morgan is essentially who Malcolm Kelly would have been if he could have gotten on the field. Outside of this ankle fracture he suffered, Morgan has been pretty healthy, I believe. I saw a better player on tape than the Redskins played with last year. What I did not see was a guy who offers something the Redskins haven't had in years. If he had played here in 2010, Morgan would have been perhaps the 2nd or 3rd receiver, splitting reps with the more versatile (but less reliable, IMO) Moss.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=skinster;908188]My problem with your assertion that we need to take care of the O-line is it is very hard for us fans to evaluate O-linemen who are not either top or bottom talent. We tried, but did not have the money to get the top talent due to the cap restrictions, and who are we to say that the middle guys are truly enough of an upgrade over what we have to mess with the O-line chemistry?

The Fletcher thing you are saying is ridiculous. I don't even have to look when I say I'm positive Torrence got the league minimum. Fletcher is going to want money that we do not have to give him. We want Fletcher back, but unless he is willing to settle for less, we just don't have the space. Also even if he were to take a paycut to lets say 2 million (not going to happen), I still would take Merriweather or Morgan over him. Those guys have potential to be on the team for some time while Fletcher has 1-2 years of mediocrity left.[/quote]


We did have the money to address the RT position in FA. We chose to go after other needs, which isn't wrong. My point is, we know we have struggled at RT the last couple of years, and there were several options there.

As i stated regarding Torrence, it wasn't much money. Not electing to resign our QB of the defense would be a huge mistake. He wants to finish here in DC, he WAS the heart and sole of the D last year and has been for the last 5 years. To say its ridiculous is a bit harsh in my opinion. I would imagine we have a # in mind for him, and it will get done. If it doesn't it would be a shame. Regardless of his age, he led the NFL in tackles, is a true leader of that defense, and a positive presence in the locker room. I would hope we take care of that deal and bring him back.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=Chico23231;908231]I think if it was a 4, 5 year 20+ million dollar deal i might agree, but his contract is really no risk. 2 year deal where we get to find out if he can become a stronger player. Shanny reallllly wanted this guy and there was a lot of interest from other teams. I think he could be an asset.[/quote]

Even so..we're paying for Morgan to put up numbers he's never produced. Never pay for potential in free agency. I would've signed Garcon and left it alone after that.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

C - Very Ordinary.
The fact that we are going after a franchise QB is great but not unexpected. I agree with the moves to get in the #2 overall to finally bring life to the QB position.

As far as Fletcher is concerned, I love him but, he's old and expensive, thats not a good combo when working under the current cap. With that said, he does bring more than great play on the field, his leadership/character was/is greatly needed in the locker room.

Garcon, great move IMO.
Morgan, bottom feeding but makes sense given the risk.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=skinsfan69;908361]Even so..we're paying for Morgan to put up numbers he's never produced. Never pay for potential in free agency. I would've signed Garcon and left it alone after that.[/quote]

What do you pay for in free agency?

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=skinsfan69;908361]Even so..we're paying for Morgan to put up numbers he's never produced. [B]Never pay for potential in free agency[/B]. I would've signed Garcon and left it alone after that.[/quote]

Right, because paying for past production has worked out so well for us in the past.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=SmootSmack;908365]What do you pay for in free agency?[/quote]

pie

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

Production and potential are both factors when evaluating free agents. Teams pay for both.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=SmootSmack;908365]What do you pay for in free agency?[/quote]

I would pay for past production, not potential. Potential is for the draft.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=mooby;908367]Right, because paying for past production has worked out so well for us in the past.[/quote]

Well who are you talking about?

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=skinsfan69;908392]Well who are you talking about?[/quote]

Pretty much all our big name signings since Snyder arrived? Some have actually panned out (like Fletch) but for the most part they haven't. And most of them were signed because the name they made for themselves in other places.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=skinsfan69;908389]I would pay for past production, not potential. Potential is for the draft.[/quote]

Why pay for production given to another team? Shouldn't we pay for production given to OUR team? And if so, isn't said production, at the time of signing, potential?

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=skinsfan69;908389]I would pay for past production, not potential. Potential is for the draft.[/quote]

it needs to be a balanced, planned approached with both production and potential in mind.

I think if your hung up on a 2 year contract with a young WR who has shown flashes in a fairly poor offensive scheme before last year, you really shouldnt be. Seasons with 40+ and 50+ catches is not nothing and the contract is pays him not to be a no. one, but a underneath possesion scheme compliment who could become more. Tripp stated the guy who I see, is a younger Gaffney. I dont have a problem with that.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=skinsfan69;908361]Even so..we're paying for Morgan to put up numbers he's never produced. Never pay for potential in free agency. I would've signed Garcon and left it alone after that.[/quote]

Maybe a better way to say it is don't overpay for potential in free-agency. We (knowingly) used much of our cap space to sign an inconsistent performer in Garcon. IMO that qualifies as overpaying pretty much no matter what. The Morgan signing is even more perplexing given he was cut by a SB contender team that needs more production from WRs. So SanFran doesn't see him as a starter, and he's coming off injury. Back to Garcon, it's significant P Manning didn't lobby Garcon to wait in FA and sign the same place. Obviously if Manning said to Garcon "you're coming w/ me" and said to Denver "he's coming w/ me" it would have happened that way.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=The Goat;908429]Maybe a better way to say it is don't overpay for potential in free-agency. We (knowingly) used much of our cap space to sign an inconsistent performer in Garcon. IMO that qualifies as overpaying pretty much no matter what. The Morgan signing is even more perplexing given he was cut by a SB contender team that needs more production from WRs. So SanFran doesn't see him as a starter, and he's coming off injury. Back to Garcon, it's significant P Manning didn't lobby Garcon to wait in FA and sign the same place. [B]Obviously if Manning said to Garcon "you're coming w/ me" and said to Denver "he's coming w/ me" it would have happened that way.[/B][/quote]

Unless Garcon said,"I'd prefer to blaze my own trail." In which case he would be free to blaze his own trail. You don't think RG3/Luck factored into Garcon's decision? Also, correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Morgan a free agent? If that's the case that would hardly qualify as being cut.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=mooby;908435]Unless Garcon said,"I'd prefer to blaze my own trail." In which case he would be free to blaze his own trail. You don't think RG3/Luck factored into Garcon's decision? Also, correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Morgan a free agent? If that's the case that would hardly qualify as being cut.[/quote]

Thanks for the correction on Morgan...he wasn't retained by his former team. Definitely think RGIII factored into the decision and even remember reading it somewhere. Also read a Garcon quote that made it plain Manning didn't extend an invite or anything of the sort. Maybe I'm reading to much into it...but knowing how important chemistry between QB/WR is I tend to think Manning would have liked continuity in his supporting cast.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=Chico23231;908401]it needs to be a balanced, planned approached with both production and potential in mind.

I think if your hung up on a 2 year contract with a young WR who has shown flashes in a fairly poor offensive scheme before last year, you really shouldnt be. Seasons with 40+ and 50+ catches is not nothing and the contract is pays him not to be a no. one, but a underneath possesion scheme compliment who could become more. Tripp stated the guy who I see, is a younger Gaffney. I dont have a problem with that.[/quote]

Not hung up on it. It's just not a smart signing. We should be able to get that same production from someone that's currently on the team.... Hankerson or Paul to go along with Gaffney and Moss....then take the money that was given to Morgan and sign an o-linemen.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=mooby;908395]Pretty much all our big name signings since Snyder arrived? Some have actually panned out (like Fletch) but for the most part they haven't. And most of them were signed because the name they made for themselves in other places.[/quote]

Well as people know around here I'm not a fan of free agency at all and you just said the reason why. Most of the time it doesn't work. Garcon I can somewhat understand. Morgan I just don't.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

[quote=The Goat;908429]Maybe a better way to say it is don't overpay for potential in free-agency. We (knowingly) used much of our cap space to sign an inconsistent performer in Garcon. IMO that qualifies as overpaying pretty much no matter what. The Morgan signing is even more perplexing given he was cut by a SB contender team that needs more production from WRs. So SanFran doesn't see him as a starter, and he's coming off injury. Back to Garcon, it's significant P Manning didn't lobby Garcon to wait in FA and sign the same place. Obviously if Manning said to Garcon "you're coming w/ me" and said to Denver "he's coming w/ me" it would have happened that way.[/quote]

Exactly.

Re: Grade the Redskins Moves So Far
 

I cant believe 31% think it is an odrinary offseason. My god man, we trade three ones, and a second to move up 4 spaces to pick Griffin. Thats the most I have ever seen given up for one player. I am happy about it, but ordinary?