Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=FRPLG;914025]RG3 > RG0

RG0 did not win us a game last year or ever. Good QBs can win games for you.

RG3's mobility alone and, hopefully, accuracy on the deep routes translates to a significant upgrade that, all else being equal, is 2 games. If RG3 can simply approximate RG0's effectiveness between the numbers, turnovers and all, we're immediately better at the position before he has even matured. RG3 will perform better as our starting QB from day one then RG0 ever did and that will mean wins.[/quote]

RG0 is cool and everything, but I think it far better to refer to Grossman as RG-3-and-out.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=Schneed10;914031]RG0 is cool and everything, but I think it far better to refer to Grossman as RG-3-and-out.[/quote]

:lol:

Or RG-3-interceptions.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;914024]I think we all need to remember that the teams in our division have been together a while. All those QB's have been in the same offense and are throwing the the same guys.Vick, Manning and Romo are all in the primes of their careers. We're putting in a lot of new parts in. Gotta be patient and give it time. That's why I'm not expecting a playoff run.[/quote]

I think the counter point is that we won 5 games with a mediocre QB and could have won 7 quite easily minus a play or two from said QB. 8-8 is a serious possibility. The NFL is an odd beast. Put RG3 on the team last year and what happens? Are we worse?

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;914024]I think we all need to remember that the teams in our division have been together a while. All those QB's have been in the same offense and are throwing the the same guys.Vick, Manning and Romo are all in the primes of their careers. We're putting in a lot of new parts in. Gotta be patient and give it time. That's why I'm not expecting a playoff run.[/quote]

Fair points, but the Cowboys have been together for a while yet can't seem to win a playoff game. The Giants played great in the clutch, yet barely won the division. The Eagles scare me a bit this year for some reason but they're not the Packers. There are no world beaters in this division. I think we need to get over the notion that the NFC East is a black and blue division right now. It's just frankly not.

That said, I think you need to give more than a cursory blanket statement to support your call for another poor season.

Let's name the reasons why we went 5-11 last year:

1) Lots of injuries and suspensions coupled with poor depth
2) Terrible secondary play
3) Grossman's high turnover rate (20 picks and 5 lost fumbles in 13 games)
4) Not enough skill position weapons

#1 is addressed just by the return of healthy players. #3 is somewhat addressed by Griffin, who will probably throw picks but won't get sacked nearly as much. And #4 is addressed by Garcon, Morgan, and the return of Hankerson and Fred Davis.

2) is still a major problem.

But I don't see how that doesn't equate to at least a 2 or 3 game improvement over last year's 5-11 debacle. Care to elaborate?

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=Schneed10;914031]RG0 is cool and everything, but I think it far better to refer to Grossman as RG-3-and-out.[/quote]

I approve.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=Schneed10;914035]Fair points, but the Cowboys have been together for a while yet can't seem to win a playoff game. The Giants played great in the clutch, yet barely won the division. The Eagles scare me a bit this year for some reason but they're not the Packers. There are no world beaters in this division. I think we need to get over the notion that the NFC East is a black and blue division right now. It's just frankly not.

That said, I think you need to give more than a cursory blanket statement to support your call for another poor season.

Let's name the reasons why we went 5-11 last year:

1) Lots of injuries and suspensions coupled with poor depth
2) Terrible secondary play
3) Grossman's high turnover rate (20 picks and 5 lost fumbles in 13 games)
4) Not enough skill position weapons

#1 is addressed just by the return of healthy players. #3 is somewhat addressed by Griffin, who will probably throw picks but won't get sacked nearly as much. And #4 is addressed by Garcon, Morgan, and the return of Hankerson and Fred Davis.

2) is still a major problem.

But I don't see how that doesn't equate to at least a 2 or 3 game improvement over last year's 5-11 debacle. Care to elaborate?[/quote]
I agree. The biggest thing for everyone to remember too at this point is we're all talking in likelihoods. If we have major injuries we could lose another 10-12 games. If we are remarkably healthy we could win 11-12. When I say 8-8 is reasonable I mean in a typical year with typical injuries and everything working out about average compared to last year.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=Schneed10;914035]Fair points, but the Cowboys have been together for a while yet can't seem to win a playoff game. The Giants played great in the clutch, yet barely won the division. The Eagles scare me a bit this year for some reason but they're not the Packers. There are no world beaters in this division. I think we need to get over the notion that the NFC East is a black and blue division right now. It's just frankly not.

That said, I think you need to give more than a cursory blanket statement to support your call for another poor season.

Let's name the reasons why we went 5-11 last year:

1) Lots of injuries and suspensions coupled with poor depth
2) Terrible secondary play
3) Grossman's high turnover rate (20 picks and 5 lost fumbles in 13 games)
4) Not enough skill position weapons

#1 is addressed just by the return of healthy players. #3 is somewhat addressed by Griffin, who will probably throw picks but won't get sacked nearly as much. And #4 is addressed by Garcon, Morgan, and the return of Hankerson and Fred Davis.

2) is still a major problem.

But I don't see how that doesn't equate to at least a 2 or 3 game improvement over last year's 5-11 debacle. Care to elaborate?[/quote]

Not to harp on Beck, but let's also remember that we were 0-3 with him, and while that doesn't excuse the coaches for keeping him in, I think if Griffin goes out, RG-INT is still capable of winning a game or two in a stretch, and Cousins probably is as well.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;914024]I think we all need to remember that the teams in our division have been together a while. All those QB's have been in the same offense and are throwing the the same guys.Vick, Manning and Romo are all in the primes of their careers. We're putting in a lot of new parts in. Gotta be patient and give it time. That's why I'm not expecting a playoff run.[/quote]

Well the Eagles took a step backwards last year after adding all those superstars and who says it will be any better for them this year. I alos think vick is on the decline and with the hits he has taken over the years he could go real quick. Romo will play good enough to keep his job but he is still Homo Romo. We beat the Giants twice last year so maybe we have their number. For some reason I think we make the playoffs this year. We will be the 48ers of last year.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=firstdown;914058]Well the Eagles took a step backwards last year after adding all those superstars and who says it will be any better for them this year. I alos think vick is on the decline and with the hits he has taken over the years he could go real quick. Romo will play good enough to keep his job but he is still Homo Romo. We beat the Giants twice last year so maybe we have their number. For some reason I think we make the playoffs this year. [B]We will be the 48ers of last year[/B].[/quote]

You...are...awesome!!!

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

The 48ers. They must have been the prospectors who found the gold first.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=Schneed10;914009]I see more reasons for optimism than pessimism, actually. I think we're 8-8 or 9-7 here, with the only thing keeping us from 10-6 or 11-5 being the indiscretion of a youthful QB - turnovers.

First off, we were incredibly injured last year. Injured and suspended. The return of healthy players alone is enough to stabilize us a bit. Lichtensteiger was really missed along the offensive line when he went down - it caused us to shuffle pieces that never really fit. And obviously Trent for those last four games. And Brown's hip still wasn't right - by Shanahan's account there's reason to hope that he's in better health this season.

Jarvis Jenkins never got a chance to make an impact for us - he adds depth. Getting rid of Landry is addition by subtraction in a way. You lose quite a talent but at least you have a healthy player in his spot.

Fred Davis returning from suspension and Chris Cooley coming back gives us TE depth. Remember, we were 3-1 at one point before the injuries really started mounting up. Not that we could have gone 12-4 with that team last year, but with health I don't see why 7-9 or 8-8 was unachievable.

Then we get to the improvements - hello real WRs. No star at WR still, but the depth is miles better than it was last year. And lastly, the obvious - QB. Griffin is going to make plenty of mistakes but I think he's going to move the ball. Our offensive line may not be perfect, but he's going to rip off the occasional long TD run when the line breaks down and he escapes.

You have to expect a rookie QB to make mistakes and throw INTs. But Grossman threw 20 last year in like 13 games started, plus he lost 5 more fumbles. I think that's even a lot of turnovers for a rookie. So what I'm saying is, Griffin really can't be worse than Rex was last year.

We'll get torched on long TD passes because I don't love our secondary. And Griffin will make mistakes. But the supporting cast is healthy and deep enough now for us to at least be in the playoff conversation in the month of December.[/quote]

Great post. I also think Griffin will be an instant upgrade over Rex even adjusting for rookie mistakes.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=firstdown;914058]Well the Eagles took a step backwards last year after adding all those superstars and who says it will be any better for them this year.[B] I alos think vick is on the decline and with the hits he has taken over the years he could go real quick.[/B] Romo will play good enough to keep his job but he is still Homo Romo. We beat the Giants twice last year so maybe we have their number. For some reason I think we make the playoffs this year. We will be the 48ers of last year.[/quote]

Vick won't quit anytime soon (short of a career-ending injury) but I think you're right about a decline in performance. The dude just gets effed up too much because of his size and style.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

I feel like we will be 8-8, 9-7 at best on our schedule. We play the AFC North with a New Steeler defense, A pissed of Cleveland brown team that didn't get RG3, a reloaded and less of a joke Bengals team, and the consistently good powerful ravens defense/team. I'm very very excited to see how we far against the AFC North. We could go 0-4, or we could go 3-1. I honestly think that the Ravens are in their absolute last year of going to a super bowl with Ray Lewis. The steelers are the steelers, always good, and they've had our number for the past 8 years. We also play them AT Pittsburgh which is always tough. Having said that, their defense isn't as experience as it has been in the past with some major veteran losses on the interior. And their CB's suck. It will be interesting when Griffin goes against them, because it will be later in the season, so he'll know what to expect from 3-4 defenses and creative blitzing more by then.

We have to play the tough NFC South, which is almost a copy cat of the AFC North except more offense based instead of defense based teams. I believe we beat the saints. The falcons are great at home, but we play them here. The Bucs are the browns equivalent, and at home, but I feel like we'll be better--classic wildcard game of either team could be easily seen as the winner. And the panthers. That will be The Game to see. Two great athletic QBs. I say we lose, but close. Then again our defense will be used to going against a faster QB by then, so that could help. Edge to the panthers. It will be great. Worst case we go 1-3 in that division. Best case we could go 3-1.

Then the NFC East which is always a play or two away division from deciding whose in last place and whos going to the playoffs. I say we split the Gmen, beatup the Cowgirls both games, and split the eagles (although I could see the eagles beating us both times with an improved defense--I picked them to be in the super bowl this year against the Ravens.)


It will be great watching speed this year. Our strength with be our speed on offense with our skilled positions and defense with our pass rush. Our weakness will be our CB/S's and lack of tackling/poor coverage.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

The Gold Rush actually began in 1848. :Smoker:

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=FRPLG;914038]I agree. The biggest thing for everyone to remember too at this point is we're all talking in likelihoods. If we have major injuries we could lose another 10-12 games. If we are remarkably healthy we could win 11-12. When I say 8-8 is reasonable I mean in a typical year with typical injuries and everything working out about average compared to last year.[/quote]

There most certainly will be injuries. EVERY team will be injured by the end of the regular season/beginning of playoffs. The teams that have depth will be successful. If I remember correctly the super bowl champs- NY Giants were fortunate in the sense that they had most of their key injuries early in the season and they were back by the end of the season/playoffs. One of the biggest factors in our success/failure will be how our backups step up when injuries happen - depth - especially on the 1. o line and 2. secondary.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

8-8 or 9-7 are my expectations...although who knows how bad our secondary is going to be...could make the season 7-9....

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;913917]I think we're all looking for progression in the end, but a much-improved offense sure as hell doesn't hurt.

I could get into detail, but in the end, I'd much rather lose 40-39 versus 7-3.

It's just been SO LONG since we've straight up blown another team out (the Lions a few years ago is really the last one I remember) and it's only been recently we've been able to even do the victory formation.[/quote]

I agree and disagree. If you have scores like that, that just means your D is just plain awful. Yeah, the higher scoring is more exciting, but face it man, games like that come down to who has the ball last, or comes down to who coughs up the ball first. A team like that is bound to hover around 500 or just below it. Look at the high powered offense Norv had with Gus, but our safeties were sieves, with not the best pass rush either. Our LBs and Darrell were hung out to dry on several occasions. That being said I think even 7-9 would be an improvement and I won't be bitching about that. But to be honest, if these newbie linemen actually produce and make the team, and Robert meets or surpasses expectations, we can see 9-7 -r even 10-6. I see the Giants going down a notch and the Eagles being slightly better than last season. The Cowboys will be interesting to watch. I think it will be Boys/Skins again in a couple seasons and the old fun will be back with the rivalry I hope. It has been rather pathetic the last 6 seasons.

[QUOTE=SirClintonPortis;914196]8-8 or 9-7 are my expectations...although who knows how bad our secondary is going to be...could make the season 7-9....[/QUOTE]

I'm w you, 9-7 at best and that's with griff being ROY.. I just don't see the secondary holding up and our wrs are still a?

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=Schneed10;914035]

1) Lots of injuries and suspensions coupled with poor depth
2) Terrible secondary play
3) Grossman's high turnover rate (20 picks and 5 lost fumbles in 13 games)
4) Not enough skill position weapons

?[/quote]

Except for grossman you just named the Giants reasons for a 9-7 season,we had 10 people on IR the first time we player the Skins(opening day) 6 of those were DB's.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

8-8 9-7 is where I'm at as well. Team has talent, but Griffin isn't going to hop in day 1 and be lights out. He still needs to learn and I don't expect him to really pick it up till about week 5-6. We'll see though.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

Our 5-11 record last year was a bad 5-11.
Gifted 2 games by the Giants who simply didn't turn up for either game and victories over the hapless Cards and the woeful Rams hardly inspires confidence for much improvement.

2-14 to 4-12 is not unlikely.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=Giantone;914238]Except for grossman you just named the Giants reasons for a 9-7 season,we had 10 people on IR the first time we player the Skins(opening day) 6 of those were DB's.[/quote]

and number 4. you D-Line and WR corp and QB qualify as a skilled positions, you have above average talent on that team. Your right about your secondary, its full of garbage players.


You need to quit with the excuses and get over the fact we whipped your ass twice last year in convicing fashion. Let it go

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

While i'll hold off on any prediction (who could even say with so many variables?) I have been saying since the start that the pressure shouldn't be on till Shanahan's 4th year. By that time, there should be no excuses.

So, I think excitement is enough. I don't want any knee-jerk reactions if RGIII's first year isn't a 10-6 wilcard playoff birth. There are going to be growing pains.

With that being said, I think there should be some improvement, some signs of moving up. By hitting .500, I think it starts showing the message we've turned a corner and next year it will be even better.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=davy;914262]Our 5-11 record last year was a bad 5-11.
Gifted 2 games by the Giants who simply didn't turn up for either game and victories over the hapless Cards and the woeful Rams hardly inspires confidence for much improvement.

2-14 to 4-12 is not unlikely.[/quote]

What about the cowgurl games. We should of WON those.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=davy;914262]Our 5-11 record last year was a bad 5-11.
Gifted 2 games by the Giants who simply didn't turn up for either game and victories over the hapless Cards and the woeful Rams hardly inspires confidence for much improvement.

2-14 to 4-12 is not unlikely.[/quote]

We lost quite a few very close games w/ arguably the worst starting QB(s) in the league...let's look on the bright side shall we?

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=davy;914262]Our 5-11 record last year was a bad 5-11.
Gifted 2 games by the Giants who simply didn't turn up for either game and victories over the hapless Cards and the woeful Rams hardly inspires confidence for much improvement.

2-14 to 4-12 is not unlikely.[/quote]

Let's face it guys, davy here is right. We're doooooooooomed! DOOOOOOOOOMED I TELLS YA! AND WE'RE NEVER GONNA GET ANY BETTER BECAUSE THE RAMS HAVE OUR FIRST ROUNDERS!

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

4-12 wouldn't surprise me but neither would 9-7

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

Didnt Peyton Manning only win 2 games his rookie year?

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=iRepDMV;914400]Didnt Peyton Manning only win 2 games his rookie year?[/quote]

He did, but he was on a horrible team.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=davy;914262]Our 5-11 record last year was a bad 5-11.
Gifted 2 games by the Giants who simply didn't turn up for either game and victories over the hapless Cards and the woeful Rams hardly inspires confidence for much improvement.

2-14 to 4-12 is not unlikely.[/quote]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9zJHvCsmOI]Debbie Downer theme song - YouTube[/ame]

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=davy;914262]Our 5-11 record last year was a bad 5-11.
Gifted 2 games by the Giants who simply didn't turn up for either game and victories over the hapless Cards and the woeful Rams hardly inspires confidence for much improvement.

2-14 to 4-12 is not unlikely.[/quote]

No way they fall that far. I'm saying 8-8 or 9-7. Either record would be a solid first year with RG3.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=DC Tailgate;914239]8-8 9-7 is where I'm at as well. Team has talent, but Griffin isn't going to hop in day 1 and be lights out. He still needs to learn and I don't expect him to really pick it up till about week 5-6. We'll see though.[/quote]

Reason for optimism after the year Newton and Dalton had last year. RG3 has more talent around him than Newton had.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

I just want to see a competitive team. I can't quantify that in number of wins, it's subjective, I'm more concerned with the level of effort. There were times last year where I knew the team was going to fold late in the game. I want the opposite feeling. I want to see a team that has a chance to pull off the victory. The offense has been so disappointing, for so long, I just want to see scoring. The defense will be okay.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=Mattyk;914401]He did, but he was on a horrible team.[/quote]

How did Manning do statistically wise his rookie year? I can imagine with good qb play on a horrible team you should be able to win more than 2 games.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

Didn't most people around here think we were going to win 8-10 games last year?

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;914563]Didn't most people around here think we were going to win 8-10 games last year?[/quote]

I felt like it was going to depend on which version of Rex Grossman showed up. If he played consistently good football I felt 8-8 to 10-6 was reasonable, but if he played crappy than we'd have another crappy season. I didn't see the Beck hiccup coming though. Obviously the latter happened.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=iRepDMV;914541]How did Manning do statistically wise his rookie year? I can imagine with good qb play on a horrible team you should be able to win more than 2 games.[/quote]

Up until last year he had the most passing yards in a season as a rookie, but he was upside down with TDs to INTs. He threw almost 30 picks I believe.

I was talking with one of the odds makers at a popular casino with a roman theme. He Told me the over under on redskins wins next year is looking like its going to be set at 6.5.

I would take the under. I put us about 6-10z.

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

Peyton Manning rookie stats:

rating: 71.2
comp pct: 56.7
yards: 3739
y/a: 6.5
TD: 26
INT: 28

Re: Is excitement enough in 2012?
 

[quote=Chico23231;913978]if the offense struggles and our loses are in the double digits, Snyder will give Shanny the ultimatum either fire Kyle or both of you are leaving. Kyle's got so much to prove this year its not funny.

excitement is not enough this year[/quote]I hold the opinion that no matter what happens with this season, Snyder is going to invite RGIII to his home at the end of it and is going to ask him very bluntly if he thinks Mike and Kyle's system plays to his strengths or not. He's going to ask Mr. Griffin if he honestly feels he can be a success in it.

If he says yes, they will be here 2013-1014.

If he says no, they're gone ... or at the least there will be an ultimatum; i.e., your boy goes and you get a new OC in here or you both go.

It's as simple as that, IMO, unless we went to the Superbowl. Snyder isn't going to let Mike and Kyle ruin RGIII. He gave up a lot to get him and I think he knows it's in the organization's best interests to do everything to make sure he succeeds, and if Mike and Kyle gotta go for that to happen, then they gotta go...