Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=smootsmack]The Snyder aspect is interesting because it inevitably leads to the question of how much of this was Snyder wanting to finally get Santana Moss

I don't think it's a bad move really. I might have held out a bit longer to see if any other better offers came along but time is a factor with that bonus for Coles set to kick in on Monday I believe[/QUOTE]

Could be, but it's possible Moss was simply the best player that was being offered by any team, and Gibbs simply didn't want a pick in return. He seems to really like free agency and the opportunity to improve your team quickly with veteran players and this deal is along those same lines.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

Moss is supposed to be on ESPN Radio in a few minutes (a replay of an interview that was done earlier today)

[url]http://1050espnradio.com/[/url]

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Perhaps with the Vikes moving up to #7 the Skins saw the writing on the wall that Williams could possibly be gone by the time they pick at #9.

With picking up Moss I think this gives us more flexibility with the #9 pick, we could address another need with it like taking a CB, or we could trade down, taking a WR is no longer a must.[/QUOTE]

I still see the WR as a must becasue I only see Moss as being a replacement for Grdner, I don't see him as a quality #1 WR.

I see what your saying about flexibility in the draft though. I also don't believe the Vikes will use #7 on a WR. I think they need defense. They scored like 30 a game in the weeks Randy Moss was out of the lineup. Also can you imagine the pressure on a WR being taken with the pick that Randy Moss was traded for. Way to much pressure on a rookie. At least if they go defense with #7 it's harder to make a direct comparison of Moss and a defensive player. The Vikes have a late first round pick also that they could take a WR with.

Or look at it this way. the Vikes were one of the teams reportedly interested in Coles. if the SKins had traded Coles to the Vikes that would remove the possibility of them taking a WR at #7.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

Apparently the Vikings are interested in Mason. So, I think they might be looking for a defensive player at the number 7 pick.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

I will breath a lot easier on draft day if the Vikes add a WR in free agency.

Although i don't like Moss much, if this trade does happen he does bring the speed to get deep and he would make a nice compliment to the big sure handed Mike Williams who I hope they add in April. I just don't like Moss as the main WR but I could see him as a real good #2 with deep speed.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

I really think the Vikings will pursue a free agent WR. If you look at that team, they're not really looking for a rookie WR to groom. I think they're looking for an experienced, proven WR. Also, they desperately need help on defense. The offense is fine even without Moss.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

I think I agree. I was worried at first that they would want a WR, but the more I think about it I think they will draft defense.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=celts32]I think I agree. I was worried at first that they would want a WR, but the more I think about it I think they will draft defense.[/QUOTE]


Well Celts, looks like I might be wrong on my assumption. This will not make you happy.

[url]http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/3417548[/url]


But remember this is a "mock" draft, and free agency hasn't started yet.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

Given the circumstances (Coles doesn't want to be here, Coles' toe, Moss is young, Moss has speed, and we need a wideout), I don't think this is a bad trade. It's true, Moss hasn't developed into a true #1 yet. It's true that Coles has already shown that he can be a monster when healthy. But, beggars can't be choosers.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

I never really like S. Moss, even coming out of college. He remindes of another small WR that we drafted very high out of Michigan way back in the day. We do need a speed WR, but I want one with some size and strength. Plus I do not want my #1 or #2 WR returning kicks, he will never make through an entire season healthy.
One other thing about S. Moss is it seems that what ever WR that plays with Chad Pennington shows well and ends up with great numbers. I am not sure if S. Moss is a product of a good QB in a good system.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

I think the better trade would be for one unhappy player for another. So it would be John Abraham for Coles straight up. Coles is a top ten reciever in the league in a struggling offense, so he has enough value. otherwise I'd take the Ravens first for Coles

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

I wanted Abraham!!!!!!!!!:banghead:

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=Funbunchfan]I wanted Abraham!!!!!!!!!:banghead:[/QUOTE]

we can still get him, remember we franchised Champ then traded him off. So it's a serious possibility.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

I think Snyder just wanted to get a "Moss", and since the other one now resides in Oakland.......

But it is better than having to release Coles and get zilch in return.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Even before this deal I think Morton's spot with the team was in jeopardy.[/QUOTE] Along with his Avatar, PLEASE.

This is a great trade for us, and it adds another U guy.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

Ughhhh

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

Come on Matty just think Nike. You know the saying.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=CRT3]Come on Matty just think Nike. You know the saying.[/QUOTE]
i agree "just do it" Out with morton, in with thrash :food-smil

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]Well Celts, looks like I might be wrong on my assumption. This will not make you happy.

[url]http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/3417548[/url]


But remember this is a "mock" draft, and free agency hasn't started yet.[/QUOTE]

I don't put much faith in mock drafts. it's the easy assumption to assume that the Vikings will take a WR with the pick that they traded Moss for. i still think when it comes down to it they will address that horrible defense in the first round. If Mike Williams is not available at #9 I think that will be becasue someone else other than Minnesotta took him.

I Dont Like It
 

i do not like the idea coles 4 moss. i rather trade coles to either jets or ravens 4 picks. moss hasnt played up to his hype coming out of miami + i dont think he's played a full year. i say this cause multiple picks in the first round would help us more. with our pick we can take Willaims WR or Rolle, if we take a corner then we can grab a WR' with one of their 1st rounders. I said this in January we need a [B]GODAMN GM and FIRE VINNY CERRATO.[/B] . did we not learn this past year especially on the DEF that names dont win games.

Re: I Dont Like It
 

[QUOTE=juggernaunt]i do not like the idea coles 4 moss. i rather trade coles to either jets or ravens 4 picks. moss hasnt played up to his hype coming out of miami + i dont think he's played a full year. i say this cause multiple picks in the first round would help us more. with our pick we can take Willaims WR or Rolle, if we take a corner then we can grab a WR' with one of their 1st rounders. I said this in January we need a [B]GODAMN GM and FIRE VINNY CERRATO.[/B] . did we not learn this past year especially on the DEF that names dont win games.[/QUOTE]


What are we going to do with more picks? Do you really think that by drafting a couple more 1st rounders will make our team better? I don't think so.

Re: I Dont Like It
 

[QUOTE=juggernaunt]i do not like the idea coles 4 moss. i rather trade coles to either jets or ravens 4 picks. moss hasnt played up to his hype coming out of miami + i dont think he's played a full year. i say this cause multiple picks in the first round would help us more. with our pick we can take Willaims WR or Rolle, if we take a corner then we can grab a WR' with one of their 1st rounders. I said this in January we need a [B]GODAMN GM and FIRE VINNY CERRATO.[/B] . did we not learn this past year especially on the DEF that names dont win games.[/QUOTE]

I agree completely...

Re: I Dont Like It
 

Moss hasnt been given a chance to play anywhere near his potential. He didnt play much at all his first two years. They finally used him in 2003, he had huge numbers, and they still wernt maximizing his potential. This was supposed to be a huge year for him but Pennington never got him the ball. Remeber teh jets in the first like 8 games, they had no good fantasy receivers becuase they would have like 8 guys catch two balls a game. The deep bomb to moss in teh playoffs is the type of stuff moss is good at, his blazing freaking fast.

I think getting a guy like Moss makes losing coles of little consequence. You know what risk you are taking. You arent hoping to get someone in the draft that you have to groom. And it sure as hell is better than just cutting him.

Re: I Dont Like It
 

I don't think we should trade CL at all. He signed the deal took the money and now wants out. The cap hit I saw was over 9mil thats way to big of a hit to take for a disgruntled baby. If your worried about his effect on the team I think Lavar can handle that. How many teams have we seen in the past that hung on to a disgruntled player and everything worked out. When training camp starts this will all blow over. I do not blame Coles for being disgruntled. If I was him and watched my coach leave a qb in as bad as Brunell I would want out too. He just needs to get past last year.

Re: Moss for Coles (merged)
 

5. Santana Moss, Miami (Fla.) -- Qualifies as one of the top playmakers in the draft, able to beat you as both a wideout and punt returner. And while he's just 5-9½ and 185 pounds, Moss shows the toughness to finish plays that are directed to the middle of the field. If he were a couple of inches taller, you would more than likely be looking at a top-five pick instead of a mid-first-rounder. Drafted by NY Jets, first round (16th)

SANTANA MOSS, Miami, 5-9, 185 — A fourth-year senior who came to Miami on a track scholarship and walked on to the football team...A three-year starter who has got better every year — catching 30 passes for 681 yards and eight touchdowns in ‘98, 54-889-6 in 1999 and 45-748-5 last year, despite being slowed much of the season with left ankle tendinitis...From his numbers, it’s obvious he is a big-play receiver who picks up yardage in bunches...A dangerous punt returner...Finished seventh in the Heisman Trophy balloting...Between receptions, punt returns and reverses, he scored 10 touchdowns last year and averaged 17 yards every time he touched the ball...Has a monstrous 42-inch vertical jump, which helps make up for his lack of size — viewed as his primary drawback...Willing to fight for the ball...Very muscular for a wide receiver...Scored six touchdowns on punt returns the last two seasons...Size will be his primary hindrence...Won the Big East track titles for long jump and triple jump last year...Did not work out at the Combine.
PROJECTION: A dangerous gamebreaker, but, in the era of big wide receivers, he will have to be a change-of-pace guy who doesn’t fit the prototype mold. Even so, expect to see him go in the first half of the first round.

I'll keep digging up some descriptions of him. Until I watched Devin Hester run this year, i didnt think I would ever see a better punt returner in college football.

Im going to try and find the quote, but they asked Butch Davis what he thought about how everyone says moss is to small to be a receiver, he said somethign to the effect of he has never seen anyone be able to out jump him and come down with a ball.

If we get Moss, we still need another receiver to step up and take pressure off of him so he can run the deep routes. Hopefully Jacobs will step up this year. Id say look for us to draft defense and not a recevier, thats where our team is trying to win right now.

Re: Moss for Coles (merged)
 

He has to go at this point. Gibbs said publicly that any player that does not want to be on the team will be accomodated. Gibbs wants a team of guys that want to be Redskins and for him to keep Coles after this thing got so public would kind of undermind the stance he has taken. Gibbs is a man that is all about his credibility so I just can't see how he can bring Coles back.

Re: Moss for Coles (merged)
 

All the experts had Moss as their breakout player before last season, injuries slowed him down obviously.

That's my only concern about him, keeping him healthy. He can't do any damage sitting on the bench.

When he's healthy and on the field he's explosive. In his first 4 years in the league he has 12 catches over 40 yards.

Coles over his first 4 years in comparison had 7 over 40.

Re: Moss for Coles (merged)
 

Despite his injuries last year he still had decent numbers, 45 catches, 838 yards (18.6 avg) and 5 scores.

Re: Moss for Coles (merged)
 

Moss was having a bad year with pennington, when chad went down and carter came in then moss started having huge games. Clearly pennington preferred coles and didnt use moss that much. Ramsey needs to get on teh same page as moss and he cna be huge

Re: Moss for Coles (merged)
 

This trade is a good deal for both teams. It is a better deal for the Jets than it is for the Skins, but I believe that Washington will benefit from it nonetheless.

It's obvious that this deal will help the Jets. 9 of 10 people would agree that Coles is the better of the two receivers. Most would agree that Coles is one of the top-10 receivers in the league, and getting him at such a low cost over the next 5 years is a bargain to say the least. Coles' toe does present a small risk to the Jets, but it is a negligible one.

The Skins benefit because they are getting rid of a problem player who does not want to be there. The alternative to trading Coles (simply releasing him outright) would immediately save $5M in cap room, but the Skins would be left empty-handed. Granted, Moss is not the receiver that Coles is, but he is no chump. Plus, Coles' refusal to get surgery was contradictory to Washington's plans, and you cannot have a player who will only do what is best for himself, and not the team.

I think the resistance to this trade comes from the fact that it is obvious that NY is getting a better deal than Washington. Fans don't want to feel like their team just got whored in a deal that was much better for the other team. The deal should be made anyway; ball clubs cannot be afraid of getting bitched by other teams. They have to do what is best for themselves in the long run. Good move Dan Snyder.

Re: Moss for Coles (merged)
 

I think the big number for Moss is 18.6 ypc, that's what we're missing

Re: Moss for Coles (merged)
 

I think my biggest problem with this is not Coles for Moss becasue I actually think they are similar in skill. I just would have rather gotten a draft pick. I think if they got the Samuels deal done they could have taken offers from the 3 or 4 teams that were suposedly interested and maybe gotten a #1 pick for Coles. As usual I think they may be jumping in with both feet before they tested the waters...

The first thing they needed to do was finish up with Samuels today and then use the weekend in Indy to field offers from all the interested teams and take the best offer. It just alwasy seems like the skins rush into things...

Re: Moss for Coles (merged)
 

We need a guy that makes you miss and make plays. i thought coles would do that but he didnt. He got the ball 90 times and didnt break hardly any except the one play at the end of the dallas game. why didnt he have the intensity everyplay? Coles could have been great with us and i wish he would stay, but he didnt have the heart that he needed and we dotn need that

Re: Moss for Coles (merged)
 

Did Coles big plays disapear when Gibbs got to DC or did they disapear back when he hurt that toe? Although I don't love this trade I certainly will not miss LC and his untreatable neverending toe injury....

Re: Moss for Coles (merged)
 

No, I think Coles had heart and played hard with a lot of effort, I just think he couldn't cut like he wanted to with the toe. And since he's not getting it fixed, it is probably better that he's movin on out.

Moss is a big play guy with the big Yards Per Catch number, but let's not overrate him here, he's not a true #1 receiver. We're going to need another guy to line up across from him and attract attention, or else defenses are just going to roll a safety over to handle Moss on deep routes. If the Redskins can't keep the safeties honest with another receiver, Moss's big-play ability is going to be limited, because he's just not going to outmuscle a double team like TO can, or out-jump one like Randy Moss can. Maybe Taylor Jacobs can step up and be big for us, I don't know. But if we don't have a good receiver to go with Moss, I don't think the passing game will improve that much.

We should still be looking to land another WR if possible. I'd prefer restructuring Samuels for the cap room to resign Pierce and go get a Derrick Mason. But drafting a Mike Williams or a Troy Williamson would be nice too.

Re: Moss for Coles (merged)
 

Picks are overrated, you're getting an unknown commodity in what's not regarded as an overly strong draft class, while with Moss you know exactly what you're getting, and dumping serious baggage at the same time.

Re: I Dont Like It
 

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]Moss hasnt been given a chance to play anywhere near his potential. He didnt play much at all his first two years. They finally used him in 2003, he had huge numbers, and they still wernt maximizing his potential. This was supposed to be a huge year for him but Pennington never got him the ball. Remeber teh jets in the first like 8 games, they had no good fantasy receivers becuase they would have like 8 guys catch two balls a game. The deep bomb to moss in teh playoffs is the type of stuff moss is good at, his blazing freaking fast.

I think getting a guy like Moss makes losing coles of little consequence. You know what risk you are taking. You arent hoping to get someone in the draft that you have to groom. And it sure as hell is better than just cutting him.[/QUOTE]

Defiently agree with that assesment of Moss SC, Pennington couldn't get the ball to anyone this past year because of his rotatorcuff injury, I knew the Jet's would step up I am surprised that they are offering Moss, I would think they would want both but I will take Moss no prob., plus I believe he will be much more durable playing the majority of his games on grass, I also feel he is a better grass player anyway.

Re: Moss for Coles (merged)
 

I would hope we try to throw Morton in with this deal and pry away a 3rd rd pick from the jet's as well, that would make this deal a no brainer.

Re: Moss for Coles (merged)
 

I still think we target a #1 reciever in the upcoming draft, if that happen's we will be fine, now if we could only get this kind of interest in Gardner we would be set come draft day.

Re: Moss for Coles (merged)
 

This trade might not be straight up. Mabye for a change a team came to us and offered extra compensation to make a deal. Mabye we'll get a second and moss out of this.