Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=Mattyk;961245]Agreed.

And I don't think RG3 is comfortable yet making all the reads. He'll get there in time, that's what the offseason is for. Right now the best way to use him is in this option/read scheme.[/quote]Disagree, but understand your point. I believe RG3 can make the reads/throws. Unless we're going to stay in this RO offense, he needs to be opened up to a real passing game. Again, I'm not saying throw out the RO....but use it judiciously, not 15 times per game.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;961307]Disagree, but understand your point. I believe RG3 can make the reads/throws. Unless we're going to stay in this RO offense, he needs to be opened up to a real passing game. Again, I'm not saying throw out the RO....but use it judiciously, not 15 times per game.[/quote]

He still looks hesitant to me when dropping back and throwing, especially from under center.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8596167/mike-shanahan-washington-redskins-not-giving-2012]Mike Shanahan -- Washington Redskins not giving up on 2012 - ESPN[/url]

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=BDBohnzie;961305]It's been said in this thread already, so I'll reiterate. This team's had injuries to key positions. They're missing their top 2 receivers in Garcon and Davis, the best pass rusher in Orakpo, a line hog in Carriker, and the secondary has been banged up and bruised including 2 guys (one injured, one suspended) who were supposed to be big contributors who haven't played. The depth on this team clearly is lacking, and you're asking guys who should be playing sparingly (if at all) to contribute as starters. On top of that, the Skins are 18 million in the hole salary cap wise, and will be again next year. That is money that would normally help build depth, and it's simply not there.

The team has 2 weeks to regroup and get ready for the next 7 games, and show what kind of toughness they have. If you think we take it hard when the Skins lose, there are 53 men in that locker room who take it that much harder. And on top of that, you have fans who question them day in and day out. While I won't give them a free pass being 3-6 at this point, I will give them the benefit of the doubt in that they haven't mailed it in yet.[/quote]

Totally agree. It would be nice if they can dig deep and get on a winning streak. The only team remaining on the schedule I see them losing to is the Ravens. They can beat both Philly and Dallas twice and I'm not too concerned about the lucky Giants. Even if they finish 8-8 it would still be a positive step in the right direction.

Stephen A is killing Mike on first take.

"He needs to go, he's a waist Of time for Washington "

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;961320]Stephen A is killing Mike on first take.

"He needs to go, he's a waist Of time for Washington "[/quote]

Now this is something that should be cared less about. Although I do like to hear them debate. Stephen is right more times than not actually but not this time. Maybe disregard although interesting is a better description than care less on my behalf.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;961320]Stephen A is killing Mike on first take.

"He needs to go, he's a waist Of time for Washington "[/quote]

How can you even stand to listen to that crap? Did you ever hear Stephen A's radio show? You talk about garbage. That was the worst sh*t ever on the air. First Take is worst sh*t ever put on tv.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

I didn't put the link up for it to be a debate about First Take, but about what Shanahan said today

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=Mattyk;961310]He still looks hesitant to me when dropping back and throwing, especially from under center.[/quote]You'd look hesitant too if Polumbus was your RT with no help. LOL.

Lets look on the bright side here guys. We now have an extra 7 weeks of evaluation time where other teams are wasting their time on things like winning games. Ha, idiots.With this much time, we have to be odds on Super Bowl favorites for next year right...right? Anybody? Guys?

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=BDBohnzie;961305]It's been said in this thread already, so I'll reiterate. This team's had injuries to key positions. They're missing their top 2 receivers in Garcon and Davis, the best pass rusher in Orakpo, a line hog in Carriker, and the secondary has been banged up and bruised including 2 guys (one injured, one suspended) who were supposed to be big contributors who haven't played. The depth on this team clearly is lacking, and you're asking guys who should be playing sparingly (if at all) to contribute as starters. On top of that, the Skins are 18 million in the hole salary cap wise, and will be again next year. That is money that would normally help build depth, and it's simply not there.

The team has 2 weeks to regroup and get ready for the next 7 games, and show what kind of toughness they have. If you think we take it hard when the Skins lose, there are 53 men in that locker room who take it that much harder. And on top of that, you have fans who question them day in and day out. While I won't give them a free pass being 3-6 at this point, I will give them the benefit of the doubt in that they haven't mailed it in yet.[/quote]

I think this is a terrific post. I am concerned about Shanahan's post-game comment, and I worry that some of the less mature players in the locker room might take it the wrong way (I think he intended to use it to motivate his team, although I think it was a bad way to go about it -- I think he was trying to say, "Let's see what we're made of now that we're facing real adversity.").

But as badly as the last two weeks have gone, there's a lot left to this season. We have the Eagles twice (they don't scare me), Dallas twice (they don't scare me much either -- we put up more points on Atlanta than Dallas did last night), the Giants again (and our guys ought to be primed to kill), Cleveland (not a good team), and the Ravens (seem to be able to play without key guys on defense). If we can put up a few more wins here and salvage a respectable season, I doubt everyone will be calling for the coach's head, given our horrible injury situation and lack of depth. (Haslett's head, on the other hand, seems likely to roll.)

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=Mattyk;961310]He still looks hesitant to me when dropping back and throwing, especially from under center.[/quote]

I think some of that comes from his WRs dropping a ton of balls. He doesnt really trust them so he is hesitant to let it happen.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;961091]I disagree with you then. You really think Chris Chester, Will Montgomery, Ryan Kerrigan, Lorenzo Alexander (just to name a few) have mailed it in?[/quote]

Our offensive line was abused thoroughly yesterday, and I've never heard the Panthers d line heralded as anything special. Yeah, the oline mailed it in yesterday. Kerrigan has the strength and talent to beat most blockers one on one, but like most of the d line we're not seeing any explosion off the ball and our guys are getting blocked effectively one on one. The lack of explosion and push really evident. I watched replay video of Jenkins and Cofield just bumping up against o lineman, clearly not playing hard to create pressure.

Didn't see much out of Zoe yesterday. I noticed Riley had a down game from the trend he's been on.

So let me flip this: do you honestly see anything close to 100% by a majority of players over the last two weeks?

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;961320]Stephen A is killing Mike on first take.

"He needs to go, he's a waist Of time for Washington "[/quote]

Man you aint kidding,he went off
Antonio Pierce on shanahans ass too
And of course Shanny is gonna backtrack and say thats not what he meant,we'll never know for sure,but its already done the damage

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;961177]I won't say the players "mailed it in", but I will say they have lost confidence in the coaches and system. Also, our culture is one where failure/losing are acceptable. For example, penalties, dropped balls, missed assignments....nothing happens to any of these guys, no accountability. How do you enforce accountability when the OC (who has been bad for 3yrs.) has no concern for his job security?

Enough is enough. If I'm Snyder, I can get the same results for a whole hell of a lot less than $ 7M / yr.

On top of all this, the Shannys are stunting RG3's development. This gimmickly college read option BS isn't developing RG3 into a Brees or A. Rodgers type QB. RG3 is extremely bright and accurate, stop holding the young man back and let him play the NFL game....will his Comp % drop, yes. Will he be far better long term, absolutely.[/quote]

The best post I've read in a long time...especially the last paragraph. I think you're the first one to say it plainly. Lonely are the brave.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;961227]This is my point, RG3 isn't Cam or Vick, he's got the ability in the passing game that's on par with Luck and will develop into a Brees/Rogers/S. Young type QB....if given the chance. I haven't been doing the DVR and going back over the games play-by-play or invested in the all-22, but the only time KS is opening up the offense is when we're behind and he has to.

I don't mind the RO every once in a while, but let RG3 work out of gun in a traditional NFL passing O more. Our WRs are good enough to get open vs. Zone and are good enough to beat press. Especially with MS throwing in the towel on the season, open the O up and let RG3 learn.[/quote]

The one counter argument to running a more traditional offense, that btw is the only way to be an elite QB in pro football, is that our o line is too weak to protect consistently. We have a garbage player at RT and our interior over achieves but struggles against tough d lines.

But the lack of solid pass protection is just another indictment of the regime.

All that said I don't think we're avoiding a more traditional offense solely to protect RG3 from getting pancaked. From everything we've seen, this brain-trust cannot put together a traditional scheme that consistently generates points. We don't spread the field. We don't create mismatches. We don't see play-calling/play-design that exposes our opponents weaknesses from week to week, play to play. As I've said, this is among the worst coaching I've seen in pro football. It's really just a continuation of the Zorn era, but a cult of personality around Shanahan has kept the realists at bay up to this point anyway.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=The Goat;961375]The one counter argument to running a more traditional offense, that btw is the only way to be an elite QB in pro football, is that our o line is too weak to protect consistently. We have a garbage player at RT and our interior over achieves but struggles against tough d lines.

But the lack of solid pass protection is just another indictment of the regime.

All that said I don't think we're avoiding a more traditional offense solely to protect RG3 from getting pancaked. From everything we've seen, this brain-trust cannot put together a traditional scheme that consistently generates points. We don't spread the field. We don't create mismatches. We don't see play-calling/play-design that exposes our opponents weaknesses from week to week, play to play. [B]As I've said, this is among the worst coaching I've seen in pro football. It's really just a continuation of the Zorn era, but a cult of personality around Shanahan has kept the realists at bay up to this point anyway[/B].[/quote]

Whew, you are really Gloating today about this loss.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=The Goat;961367]The best post I've read in a long time...especially the last paragraph. I think you're the first one to say it plainly. Lonely are the brave.[/quote]

Brave does not equal right though.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=Paintrain;961188]Wait, really? Stunting his development? The guy has been UNIVERSALLY praised for his ability to this point in the passing game including reading defenses and making tough throws but he's being stunted in his development? While I will agree with you somewhat about the volume of read option that is our playbook, it's been damn effective, even against the top defenses we've faced.

If Garçon and Davis were both healthy, I think we'd see a slightly more traditional offense but dropping back and expecting Hankerson, Robinson and Paulsen to consistently win their matchups and develop a passing rhythm is a recipe for getting RG3 killed in the pocket.[/quote]

If you notice in a lot of the passing plays we've got 3 guys in the back field and it's almost all playaction passes. No one is being fooled on play action when you're either behind or it's 3rd and long. No one is being fooled with a wr screen on 3rd and 12. No one is being fooled with QB sweeps in the red zone. Davis and Garcon hurt but again...can you name one WR that Andrew Luck is throwing to besides Reggie Wayne? Hank, Morgan and Robinson are healthy and should be able to get open against Carolina. Get Banks involved in the passing game as well.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;961391]If you notice in a lot of the passing plays we've got 3 guys in the back field and it's almost all playaction passes. No one is being fooled on play action when you're either behind or it's 3rd and long. No one is being fooled with a wr screen on 3rd and 12. No one is being fooled with QB sweeps in the red zone. Davis and Garcon hurt but again...[B]can you name one WR that Andrew Luck is throwing to besides Reggie Wayne?[/B] Hank, Morgan and Robinson are healthy and should be able to get open against Carolina. Get Banks involved in the passing game as well.[/quote]

You keep saying that but Donnie Avery isn't exactly some unknown scrub, and they added some nice weapons this year in the draft at TE and WR too.

We need more out of our WRs no doubt. But there's no denying that when you lose your top WR and top TE, it's gonna hurt things a bit.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=The Goat;961367]The best post I've read in a long time...especially the last paragraph. I think you're the first one to say it plainly. Lonely are the brave.[/quote]Thanks GOAT, you've been banging the drum quite effectively too.

It's not a mater of being right or wrong, we just want to see an improved product...and outside of Gibbs in 2005 & 2007, we haven't seen it in 20 years. We see glimpses, try to be optimistic, gain hope, only to have those hopes dashed by this time every year. Why should Snyder spend $ 7M / yr. for piss-poor results. I'll say it with 100% confidence, if Snyder made me HC, I would do no worse and for a hell of alot cheaper than what's going on now.

You are what you're record says you are.....and Shanny's ain't very good.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=The Goat;961364]Our offensive line was abused thoroughly yesterday, and I've never heard the Panthers d line heralded as anything special. Yeah, the oline mailed it in yesterday. [/quote]


They didn't mail it in, but I believe they aren't as good as they appear to be.


Mind you, LL is pretty smart about this things and does break down game film. Also one of the ES insiders that has the scoop on the behind the scenes. When he says this, I tend to believe it.


[B]
LL ‏@HTTR24_7

Bothers me that 2 1/2 years in #Redskins can't run their base offense due to issues on the OL.. No excuse for that Imo.

LL ‏@HTTR24_7

Offense has to work on smoke and mirrors due to Oline. RT and LG not getting it done consistently enough
[/B]


It would answer the question as to why we haven't run our normal offense for the most part.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

The thing that get's me is that the majority of people were predicting right around or under .500 and the most optimistic had us at most 1 game or two over. If we have such modest expectations before the season starts then why is that the second the ball is kicked off we flip a s**t when we see that our team is struggling. Rookie QB, in general a young team, a new developing offensive scheme(!), and dealing with several big injuries on both sides of the ball.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=Swarley;961410]The thing that get's me is that the majority of people were predicting right around or under .500 and the most optimistic had us at most 1 game or two over. If we have such modest expectations before the season starts then why is that the second the ball is kicked off we flip a s**t when we see that our team is struggling. Rookie QB, in general a young team, a new developing offensive scheme(!), and dealing with several big injuries on both sides of the ball.[/quote]

Because being frustrated at a consistently losing program, many 'fans' don't comprehend how hard it is to win at the NFL level and expect/demand immediate results.

Now the counter argument will be 3 years is plenty of time and there is some merit to that. The program should be a little further along than it is. But I wonder what the conversation would be if Morgan goes for the first down rather than towards the sideline to tangle with Finnegan vs. the Rams, 2 bad penalties aren't called in the final seconds of the Bengals game as we're driving, Madieu Williams plays his position correctly vs. Victor Cruz.. With the exception of the Steelers game, despite all of the penalties, the injuries, the turnovers, a rookie QB, etc. each game has been a one possession game that we had a chance to win.

People are acting like we are getting blown out the stadium every week. Our record sucks but those who can't see the signs that we are better in 2012 than we were in 2009, 2010 and 2011 simply aren't watching.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=Swarley;961410][B]The thing that get's me is that the majority of people were predicting right around or under .500 and the most optimistic had us at most 1 game or two over. [/B]If we have such modest expectations before the season starts then why is that the second the ball is kicked off we flip a s**t when we see that our team is struggling. Rookie QB, in general a young team, a new developing offensive scheme(!), and dealing with several big injuries on both sides of the ball.[/quote]

I understand your point and have thought that way most of the season. However, the last two weeks we've looked worse, not better.

We have to go 5-2 just to finish 8-8. That's a problem.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;961408]They didn't mail it in, but I believe they aren't as good as they appear to be.


Mind you, LL is pretty smart about this things and does break down game film. Also one of the ES insiders that has the scoop on the behind the scenes. When he says this, I tend to believe it.


[B]
LL ‏@HTTR24_7

Bothers me that 2 1/2 years in #Redskins can't run their base offense due to issues on the OL.. No excuse for that Imo.

LL ‏@HTTR24_7

Offense has to work on smoke and mirrors due to Oline. RT and LG not getting it done consistently enough
[/B]


It would answer the question as to why we haven't run our normal offense for the most part.[/quote]

What is our "normal" offense though?

With RG3 it's clearly based on the zone read option, and throwing off the play action.

I think the offense this year is partly based on some of our deficiencies at OL, but also it plays to the strengths of RG3.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=Lotus;961423]I understand your point and have thought that way most of the season. However, the last two weeks we've looked worse, not better.

We have to go 5-2 just to finish 8-8. That's a problem.[/quote]

I understand and agree with that but it's also only 2 games. If you have modest expectations you need to factor in some regression during the season as well as progress. If we come out and look good the next two weeks after the bye and win both games do we all of a sudden think we're headed to a 10-6 record? Or do we instead realize that as a young developing team that is dealing with injuries we will probably have some more downs to go with our ups?

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=Swarley;961432]I understand and agree with that but it's also only 2 games. If you have modest expectations you need to factor in some regression during the season as well as progress. If we come out and look good the next two weeks after the bye and win both games do we all of a sudden think we're headed to a 10-6 record? Or do we instead realize that as a young developing team that is dealing with injuries we will probably have some more downs to go with our ups?[/quote]

I agree with this...therefore THIS IS THE GREATEST POST EVER. YOU ARE SO BRILLIANT!!!!!!

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=Paintrain;961420]Now the counter argument will be 3 years is plenty of time and there is some merit to that. The program should be a little further along than it is. But I wonder what the conversation would be if Morgan goes for the first down rather than towards the sideline to tangle with Finnegan vs. the Rams, 2 bad penalties aren't called in the final seconds of the Bengals game as we're driving, Madieu Williams plays his position correctly vs. Victor Cruz.. With the exception of the Steelers game, despite all of the penalties, the injuries, the turnovers, a rookie QB, etc. each game has been a one possession game that we had a chance to win.[/quote]Fundamental problems with FO & Coaching still exist and would manifest throughout the season, even if we get a couple plays to go our way.

However, the Morgan play would've only set up a very long field goal. It also goes back to the problem of lack of discipline. M. Williams, again lack of fundamental assignment responsibility/lack of discipline. 3-6 or 4-5, still same problems.

[quote]People are acting like we are getting blown out the stadium every week. Our record sucks but those who can't see the signs that we are better in 2012 than we were in 2009, 2010 and 2011 simply aren't watching.[/quote]I would point to this link, we're not markedly better other than shifting O & D rankings due to a QB who can play vs. the crap we fielded in 2009-11.

Based on Simple Rating System, we're right where we've been since 2009. And based on our remaining schedule, we'll be lucky to finish 6-10. Please let me know another team that would keep a coach 4 years in with a winning % below .350.

There is no reason for optimism other than RG3 with this current regime in place. What makes you think they'll magically get better at personnel decisions, or in-game play-calling, or improve discipline? How many times do you think that Read-option will work until someone decides, yardage be damned, they're going to take RG3's head off every play.

How does the current regime solve the mess they created in one off-season:
- no CBs on roster who are a # 1 or #2
- Two safeties that will be a year removed from in-game NFL action.
- Fletcher aging and likely only 1 more year
- Gaping hole at RT, mediocre interior OL, and LT that struggles with elite DE/pass-rushing LBs (JPP, Ware, etc.)
- WRs that can't catch, Moss slowing down, Garcon coming off foot injury that may slow him down.

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/]Washington Redskins Team Encyclopedia - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;961438]I agree with this...therefore THIS IS THE GREATEST POST EVER. YOU ARE SO BRILLIANT!!!!!![/quote]

:rofl:

We've been seeing way to much of that lately huh

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

This is the same Redskins team that beat the Saints right? What has changed?

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;961404]Thanks GOAT, you've been banging the drum quite effectively too.

It's not a mater of being right or wrong, we just want to see an improved product...and outside of Gibbs in 2005 & 2007, we haven't seen it in 20 years. We see glimpses, try to be optimistic, gain hope, only to have those hopes dashed by this time every year. Why should Snyder spend $ 7M / yr. for piss-poor results. I'll say it with 100% confidence, if Snyder made me HC, I would do no worse and for a hell of alot cheaper than what's going on now.

You are what you're record says you are.....and Shanny's ain't very good.[/quote]

Word. I think all of Redskins nation wanted Mike and his regime to succeed, and even at the beginning of this season I had the highest hopes we'd see improvement.

Not to nitpick but I'm not The GOAT (as in greatest of all time), I'm The Goat because way back in college friends called me goat because I ate everything in sight lol

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

Atleast if we lose out, we will have a good shot at the number 1 pick...

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=WaldSkins;961477]Atleast if we lose out, we will have a good shot at the number 1 pick...[/quote]you mean the rams will

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=Bucket;961081]We had Jim Zorn for that.[/quote]

But he made awesome funny faces.
:cheeky-sm

Goat - I dont think they are mailing it in, I think they just arent good enough. We can go up and down the roster, and the talent just isnt spread far enough. RG-3, ALMO, TW, a handful of injured guys, Forbath - money with the FG's. A few others.
WR - ehhh
O-line - been exposed last couple weeks - they were playing above their heads and now they are being exposed.
Secondary - do I need to even discuss that.
Dline - ehhhh
Riley/Fletcher - ehhhhh
I would like to believe that you could light a candle under this teams ass and it will respond - and its that easy. But Im afraid motivation only means so much - at some point you have to be better than the guy across from you.
We just arent good enough.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=44ever;961468]This is the same Redskins team that beat the Saints right? What has changed?[/quote]

Nothing except that in Week one we thought the Saints were good. They are 2-6.

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

I don't think anyone has mailed it in but it is past time to realize that we are it that good, where not that good last year, and haven't been good in the past decade with the exception of a few playoff appearances where we were just window dressings and never a factor.

We are several players away from being contenders even in our own division. Is shanty the answer I honestly do not know anymore, I thought he was but I have seen nothing to convince me he can coach this team up, and make solid player evals.

Ill never be done as a fan but I have zero hope at this point for this or next season.

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;961178]Your saying we don't have talent and I agree but who's fault is that? Mike has been here three years now it's his fault[/QUOTE]

Once you realize Shanny is not the guy it all becomes so obvious doesnt it? The excuses start to melt away and nothing is left but cold hard facts.

[QUOTE=REDSKINS4ever;961317]Totally agree. It would be nice if they can dig deep and get on a winning streak. The only team remaining on the schedule I see them losing to is the Ravens. They can beat both Philly and Dallas twice and I'm not too concerned about the lucky Giants. Even if they finish 8-8 it would still be a positive step in the right direction.[/QUOTE]

Was Carolina on that list last week?
If they finish 8-8 it wouldnt be a positive step in the right direction. It would be a god damn miracle!

Re: Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)
 

[quote=punch it in;961569]Once you realize Shanny is not the guy it all becomes so obvious doesnt it? The excuses start to melt away and nothing is left but cold hard facts.[/quote]

I think if we don't end this season at 8-8, Shanahan's gone. I won't feel horrible about it, but I'm still not ready to cry "mutiny" on the Shanahans yet.

If he gets fired, its cool and if he doesn't, that's cool too.