Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;962164][B]Last season, the Redskins defense was stellar all season long and finished with a 13th place ranking in the NFL[/B]. As we all know, the defense has regressed this season after it showed much progress last season. I haven't been able to pinpoint the exact cause. Is it the scheme, the coverages that are called, or is the problem the personnel? Haslett can't truly be the problem as the defense in the past under his watch has been better.

If the problem is indeed the personnel in the secondary, then what players need to be replaced as a result? It's been said that D. Hall is not a true #1 CB and neither is Josh Wilson. Reed Doughty, while a decent fill in, can only help so much. And Madieu Williams has played more poorly than great although I credit him with a pick 6 against the Vikings weeks back. Brandon Meriweather hasn't played all season and Mike Shanahan should be blamed for signing a junky like Tanard Jackson, knowing full well that he had been in trouble with the NFL before for past offenses.

Next year in the draft or/and free agency, which players do the Redskins target to fix this anemic problem?

Thoughts?[/quote]

I think slightly better than average is more like it.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

Can't repalce the entire defense. Are we going to just bring in more free agents?Remember, Wilson was a free agent, everyone liked it when he signed and now everyone wants to run him off. To me, Wilson just needs to be coached up. He's been in position most of the time, he's just not making the plays. Hall? Now that's another story.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=Pigskins;962312]Deion was terrible!!!!! Most over rated to ever play the game. Green was way better. Deion would never make a tackle. Green actually had more pick then Deion and way more tackles. Deion was only good at running his mouth, put a big mouth in Dallas and he will make headlines.[/quote]

Darrell Green = Best redskin ever

Deion Sanders = Best cornerback ever to play the position. Just because you might not like him doesn't mean he was ever fat and lazy. Some people think that he might have even been faster than green. Deion, while I think he is a pompous asshat, was a damn good cornerback. His ONLY downside was his tackkling. I dont care about the dancing, rapping and arrogance, he backed up what he ran his mouth about.

(Although I will say that nothing that he ever did on the field came even close to the magic that was made in the studio when he made the best rap album of all time)

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=Mechanix544;962391]Darrell Green = Best redskin ever

Deion Sanders = Best cornerback ever to play the position. Just because you might not like him doesn't mean he was ever fat and lazy. Some people think that he might have even been faster than green. Deion, while I think he is a pompous asshat, was a damn good cornerback. [B]His ONLY downside was his tackling.[/B] I dont care about the dancing, rapping and arrogance, he backed up what he ran his mouth about.

(Although I will say that nothing that he ever did on the field came even close to the magic that was made in the studio when he made the best rap album of all time)[/quote]

Sorry, but that's a pretty BIG part of playing any position on defense.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;962392]Sorry, but that's a pretty BIG part of playing any position on defense.[/quote]

not back then for corners.... they werent as good at it then as they are now...

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=Mechanix544;962391]Darrell Green = Best redskin ever

Deion Sanders = Best cornerback ever to play the position. Just because you might not like him doesn't mean he was ever fat and lazy. Some people think that he might have even been faster than green. Deion, while I think he is a pompous asshat, was a damn good cornerback. His ONLY downside was his tackkling. I dont care about the dancing, rapping and arrogance, he backed up what he ran his mouth about.

(Although I will say that nothing that he ever did on the field came even close to the magic that was made in the studio when he made the best rap album of all time)[/quote]

Not taking anything away from Sanders, he was great but Green was as good or better due to his size. I would say Champ Bailey gives Deion a run for the money.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=Meks;962397]not back then for corners.... they werent as good at it then as they are now...[/quote]

But Deion was known for avoiding tackles. It wasn't just that he tried and missed ala Hall, he just out and out shied away from them. He was a very good corner, and could shut his side down, I am not arguing that. Just don't say he was the best ever. He wasn't.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;962373][B]Because Hall was just an all pro pro two years ago[/B]. It's a trade along with our 2nd round pick that Shanahan might be able to sell some team. Most teams would probably so no. But it would be worth a try.

If the Redskins can hold on to the second round choice and draft a CB like Vernon Dean than that would be okay too.[/quote]

He was?

Maybe you meant Pro Bowl.

Kind of a big difference there.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;962324]If I were Mike Shanahan, I would trade D. Hall and our second round pick for a mid round selection in the 1st round [/quote]




[YT]Z5iidxaqeVU[/YT]



..put down the Madden controller bro. Seriously.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

let's trade jim hasslett to the bucs for some future 1st rounders

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;962420]But Deion was known for avoiding tackles. It wasn't just that he tried and missed ala Hall, he just out and out shied away from them. He was a very good corner, and could shut his side down, I am not arguing that. Just don't say he was the best ever. He wasn't.[/quote]

no i agree completely.. but my vivid memory isnt good enough to remember deion shying away from tackles but i believe it.. and no, not the best ever by any means.. pretty good not the best...

Re: Defensive Parts
 

With secondary being the strongest part of the upcoming draft, trading a pick makes no sense when we can get a CB and S in the 2nd and 3rd, and you know Shanny will stockpile picks.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=los panda;962429]let's trade jim hasslett to the bucs for some future 1st rounders[/quote]

Damn Panda, what did the Bucs do to you, iv'e never had a problem with them, why screw them over like that??

Re: Defensive Parts
 

The 3-4 defense doesn't work without a dominant NT, period. Show me one example of a dominant 3-4 w/o a monster at NT...

Short of acquiring one of a handful of dominant NTs the switch back to 4-3 is common sense. What the last three years proves is running a 3-4 w/o that guy...just...doesn't...work. Unless a middle of the pack defense (last year) is good enough for everyone?

Our current group of d linemen and LBs will perform better in the 4-3 anyway. We need to add at least three quality starters to the secondary: two safeties and a CB.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;962449]Damn Panda, what did the Bucs do to you, iv'e never had a problem with them, why screw them over like that??[/quote]for starters. :cussing:

[YT]JX1ruNEo3Ro[/YT]

Re: Defensive Parts
 

^^^ Yeah Marcus Washington!!!

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=los panda;962453]for starters. :cussing:

[YT]JX1ruNEo3Ro[/YT][/quote]

Oooh yeah. But didnt we come back and beat them in the playoffs that year???

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;962456]Oooh yeah. But didnt we come back and beat them in the playoffs that year???[/quote]yes

Re: Defensive Parts
 

take it back a little further, to the 1999 season. i know we turked ourselves, but still.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

i hate tampa.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

just got some strange deja vu ... hm ....

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=Meks;962461]i hate tampa.[/quote]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X697nkecF4A]Stevie Janowski is going to TAMPA - YouTube[/ame]

Re: Defensive Parts
 

lmfffao

Re: Defensive Parts
 

gold might get you jonas brothers tickets

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=The Goat;962455]^^^ Yeah Marcus Washington!!![/quote]

Oh yeah, I had a full blown man crush on that him!! Loved the way he played, perfect example of an outside linebacker in the 4-3.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

he was a great LB

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=skinsfan69;962390]Can't repalce the entire defense. Are we going to just bring in more free agents?Remember, Wilson was a free agent, everyone liked it when he signed and now everyone wants to run him off. To me, Wilson just needs to be coached up. He's been in position most of the time, he's just not making the plays. Hall? Now that's another story.[/quote]

Chris Wilson played well in the preseason. He got a sack for a safety. But he's not Brian Orakpo and people want to see Wilson and Rob Jackson do the same things as Orakpo did. That's not going to happen simply because neither Jackson or Wilson are as talent as Orakpo. What Mike Shanahan needs to do is get another free agent signing with someone who can rush the passer just like Orakpo. Sure, it may cost money. But at least if Orakpo goes down with injury again this new free agent can step in and there will be no drop off like what happening now.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=Chico23231;962191]I think he is only signed through next year. His contract is affordable and [B]we cant afford to cut the entire secondary[/B]. Bring him back, cut Hall and let the 1 year deals of C Griff and M Williams expire and not resign either. Merriweather has another year left on his deal, so bring him back. We add 2 corners in the draft and free agency. We add another safety through the draft and hopefully sign a quality Free Safety. Cut Gomes as well.[/quote]

Oh yea we can. I'm ready to cut all of them right now and bring in a bunch of young healthy faster talent. I'd be looking at the other teams practice squads and putting them on the active roster. They certainly couldn't be any worse then how our secondary has been and it would give them decent playing time and decent evaluation time to see if they are worth keeping for next yr. .......since we are now in evaluation mode. lol.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;962520]Chris Wilson played well in the preseason. He got a sack for a safety. But he's not Brian Orakpo and people want to see Wilson and Rob Jackson do the same things as Orakpo did. That's not going to happen simply because neither Jackson or Wilson are as talent as Orakpo. What Mike Shanahan needs to do is get another free agent signing with someone who can rush the passer just like Orakpo. Sure, it may cost money. But at least if Orakpo goes down with injury again this new free agent can step in and there will be no drop off like what happening now.[/quote]

Bringing in free agents doesn't seem to work around here, or in general around the league. We have to hit some home runs in the draft.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=SBXVII;962522]Oh yea we can. I'm ready to cut all of them right now and bring in a bunch of young healthy faster talent. I'd be looking at the other teams practice squads and putting them on the active roster. They certainly couldn't be any worse then how our secondary has been and it would give them decent playing time and decent evaluation time to see if they are worth keeping for next yr. .......since we are now in evaluation mode. lol.[/quote]

It would never happen but you're probably right. Sadly, the amount of money you make determines playing time.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

Why isn't Gomes playing? Has he fallen out of favor with the coaches? As a rookie Gomes started all throughout last season and has a pick this season but we haven't seen much of him since week 2. Why? What does Madieu Williams, Reed Doughty, and Pugh have that Gomes doesn't?

Re: Defensive Parts
 

Im sorry but orakpo... gets held every time he rushes and he also only has like one move (which he vowed to work in but did not) and he's not as effective as everyone thinks ... maybe if he recovers 100% he will be who we want him to be but in this vanilla ass scheme and defense... he hasnt.been, since his rookie year, and wont be... the player everyone thinks he is..n believe me it was hard for me to come to grips with this i love rak ... but he's just not elite

Re: Defensive Parts
 

We.need.to go.back to 4-3 and put rak and ryans ****ing hamds in the dirt... im sick of forcing players to fit a scheme out of their natural position... sick of it. **** off haslett

Re: Defensive Parts
 

Seriously... think of.it... orakpo/wilson DE .. cofield/jenkins DT... carriker/golston DT ... kerrigan/jacksin DE.... fletcher MLB ... Riley OLB... see our team just filling in linebackers as D lineman because.of poor drafting?? ... forcing ends to be LBs because of poor drafting?? ... not the current regime fault.but i also used to see SOOOOO mamy more exotic looks with eilliams EVEN BLACHE... minus the 10ydyou corner cusion that i DESPISE! ... we need the transfer back to 4-3... we just do... our players would all benefit so much from it and be more preductive... so sick of ud forcing shit on playet for the past few years smh... rant over.. phone typing sux..

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=Meks;962535]Seriously... think of.it... orakpo/wilson DE .. cofield/jenkins DT... carriker/golston DT ... kerrigan/jacksin DE.... fletcher MLB ... Riley OLB... see our team just filling in linebackers as D lineman because.of poor drafting?? ... forcing ends to be LBs because of poor drafting?? ... not the current regime fault.but i also used to see SOOOOO mamy more exotic looks with eilliams EVEN BLACHE... minus the 10ydyou corner cusion that i DESPISE! ... we need the transfer back to 4-3... we just do... our players would all benefit so much from it and be more preductive... so sick of ud forcing shit on playet for the past few years smh... rant over.. phone typing sux..[/quote]

Seriously?

Cofield and Jenkins would be fine. Carriker failed miserably in St. Louis at DE and DT. That's why we got him for next to nothing. Golston isn't a starting. A starting caliber DT. Fletcher is not good anymore. And orakpo has yet to play DE in the nfl. By the way, the 4-3 limits what you can do as a defense in terms of where the blitz is coming from.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;962557]Seriously?

Cofield and Jenkins would be fine. Carriker failed miserably in St. Louis at DE and DT. That's why we got him for next to nothing. Golston isn't a starting. A starting caliber DT. Fletcher is not good anymore. [B]And orakpo has yet to play DE in the nfl.[/B] By the way, the 4-3 limits what you can do as a defense in terms of where the blitz is coming from.[/quote]

So we are gonna ignore the fact that he played DE in his rookie season when he had 11 sacks?

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;962557]Seriously?

Fletcher is not good anymore.[/quote]

All of a sudden Fletcher isn't good anymore? I've been seeing people say that around here for the past few weeks. Fletcher has 73 tackles in 9 games which puts him on pace for him to have as many tackles as he had in 2008, 2009, and 2010. I see absolutely no drop off whatsoever from him.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;962586]All of a sudden Fletcher isn't good anymore? I've been seeing people say that around here for the past few weeks. Fletcher has 73 tackles in 9 games which puts him on pace for him to have as many tackles as he had in 2008, 2009, and 2010. I see absolutely no drop off whatsoever from him.[/quote]


You are misinformed.

[url=http://httr24-7.com/?p=3399]HTTR 24-7 - Redskins Defensive Player Grades At The Bye Week[/url]


[quote]London Fletcher

Overall #48 (-14.3)

#47/51 vs Run, #37/51 Coverage

Pass Rush -1.2, Run Defense -7.5, Coverage -2.5 QB Sacks 1, QB Hits 0, QB Hurries 4

Tackles 49, Missed Tackles 14, Coverage Targets 54, Receptions 39(#51) , Yards 415(#51), Yac 191(#49), TD 4[/quote]


LF is still playing with vertigo (balance issues), and it's obvious he doesn't need to be out there.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=NC_Skins;962587]You are misinformed.

[url=http://httr24-7.com/?p=3399]HTTR 24-7 - Redskins Defensive Player Grades At The Bye Week[/url]





LF is still playing with vertigo (balance issues), and it's obvious he doesn't need to be out there.[/quote]

That chart or report doesn't mean anything. Fletcher is still playing the same way he's been playing since he became a Redskin.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;962593]That chart or report doesn't mean anything. Fletcher is still playing the same way he's been playing since he became a Redskin.[/quote]

No he is not, and you clearly are not watching the games. That much is evident.