Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=Schneed10;990632]Use this thread as a learning opportunity. There seem to be a striking number of people who think the only source of stem cells are a human embryo, completely unaware that we are all walking around with them inside our body.[/quote]

I agree. I did not mean to start any sort of debate - i was really just trying to paint a clear picture of the "stem cell debate" to explain why there are legitimate ethical concerns to certain types of stem cell research.

Most of us are not doctors (but some of us like to pretend to be, especially as it relates to RGIIIs knee). Its important for people to understand the distinction. The article which prompted this thread went out of its to make the distinction clear.

As to speculation that RGIII had stem cells injected in his knee - i think its pretty cool. I wonder if they'd have done the same thing for both knees to speed up recovery.

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;990638]ok we can leave it at agree to disagree.[/quote]

My opinion is that we probably agree on the same points, i just dont think we're understanding the intent behind eachothers posts. I do agree that the speculated surgery is pretty nifty stuff - i do wonder why Andrews would publically say they used stem cells from his pelvic bone in the press release on the surgery. I would imagine he's something of a pioneer with the surgery and I would imagine he'd want credit as such.

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[url=http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/01/23/nfl-redskins-duped-online-hoax/1859021/]Report: Several Redskins players duped by fake woman[/url]

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

^^ lol :Flush:

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;990641]I agree. I did not mean to start any sort of debate - i was really just trying to paint a clear picture of the "stem cell debate" to explain why there are legitimate ethical concerns to certain types of stem cell research.

Most of us are not doctors (but some of us like to pretend to be, especially as it relates to RGIIIs knee). Its important for people to understand the distinction. The article which prompted this thread went out of its to make the distinction clear.

As to speculation that RGIII had stem cells injected in his knee - i think its pretty cool.[B] I wonder if they'd have done the same thing for both knees to speed up recovery[/B].[/quote]

I suppose it depends on how the stem cells help the knee heal. Are they helping the ligaments adhere to the bone with great strength in a quicker fashion? Seems that way, since the article states that they're injecting them into reconstructed joints to generate strength in the ligaments sooner. But what about grafted tendons? Will stem cells help the grafted tendon from his other knee heal stronger?

Suffice it to say that wherever Andrews thought it would aid the healing process, he is probably doing it. It's smart business and good medicine for him. Doing this enables him to heal patients faster and grow his cache as the miracle worker for sports medicine.

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

I think the takeaway here is that when Andrews says 6-8 months, there's a possible medical reason to believe in that prognosis. He's in a much better position to make that call than medical experts who've had nothing to do with RG3's surgery chirp about the typical recovery period for an ACL reconstruction.

I don't think Andrews would put his sterling reputation on the line to back an overly optimistic stance by the team. I understand he's collecting a fee from the team, but his own business incentive is to retain his sterling reputation as the sports medicine pioneer that he is, so he can continue raking it in from his fundamental business. What he earns from his sports medicine surgical business far outstrips any money he collects from the Redskins; he knows where his bread gets buttered.

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;990644]My opinion is that we probably agree on the same points, i just dont think we're understanding the intent behind eachothers posts. I do agree that the speculated surgery is pretty nifty stuff - i do wonder why Andrews would publically say they used stem cells from his pelvic bone in the press release on the surgery. [B]I would imagine he's something of a pioneer with the surgery and I would imagine he'd want credit as such[/B].[/quote]

I would guess that it will all come out, but it may be that he wants to do follow up, and is using the results as part of a research paper he wants to publish or he may just be concerned about patient privacy. I hadn't heard of AP using this therapy (granted I didn't follow his recovery much) so maybe Dr Andrews just allows time to pass so that any concerns the athlete may have about their own privacy are alleviated. (Can't see Griffin being a privacy hawk though).

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=Schneed10;990649]I think the takeaway here is that when Andrews says 6-8 months, there's a possible medical reason to believe in that prognosis. He's in a much better position to make that call than medical experts who've had nothing to do with RG3's surgery chirp about the typical recovery period for an ACL reconstruction.

I don't think Andrews would put his sterling reputation on the line to back an overly optimistic stance by the team. I understand he's collecting a fee from the team, but his own business incentive is to retain his sterling reputation as the sports medicine pioneer that he is, so he can continue raking it in from his fundamental business. What he earns from his sports medicine surgical business far outstrips any money he collects from the Redskins; he knows where his bread gets buttered.[/quote]

Nail on the head.

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;990629]That was one of my first thoughts as well. Ireally dont like the leagues stance on HGH. In my opinion, HGH should be allowed to help players recover from injury faster. Its better for the league to have is players healthy. As long as the league would be allowed to approve HGH on a case by case basis (like they do with adderall), i dont see why they should have a problem with it.[/quote]

It will never happen. Not on Goodell's watch.

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=Schneed10;990649]I think the takeaway here is that when Andrews says 6-8 months, there's a possible medical reason to believe in that prognosis. He's in a much better position to make that call than medical experts who've had nothing to do with RG3's surgery chirp about the typical recovery period for an ACL reconstruction.

I don't think Andrews would put his sterling reputation on the line to back an overly optimistic stance by the team. I understand he's collecting a fee from the team, but his own business incentive is to retain his sterling reputation as the sports medicine pioneer that he is, so he can continue raking it in from his fundamental business. What he earns from his sports medicine surgical business far outstrips any money he collects from the Redskins; he knows where his bread gets buttered.[/quote]

Agreed!! . . . This was the whole reason i posted the article in the first place . . . just to show there is reason for the hope that RGIII will be back for the start of the season!! . . . i wasn't trying to start a stem cell research debate, nor anything even remotely close to one.

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=mbedner3420;990599]Bone marrow? Wow that must be extremely painful to acquire.[/quote]

Yes it is and I had to watch as they did it to my oldest daughter. If you ever have to have it done tell them you want to be knocked out. My duaghter was under pretty good but as we waited for her drugs to kick in I heard several other who must not have taken enough drugs. They drill it out by twisting that green tool into the pelvis bone and then they suck out a sample.

[IMG]http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4903552147260985&pid=1.7&w=197&h=148&c=7&rs=1[/IMG]

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=Schneed10;990649]I think the takeaway here is that when Andrews says 6-8 months, there's a possible medical reason to believe in that prognosis. He's in a much better position to make that call than medical experts who've had nothing to do with RG3's surgery chirp about the typical recovery period for an ACL reconstruction.

[B]I don't think Andrews would put his sterling reputation on the line [/B]to back an overly optimistic stance by the team. I understand he's collecting a fee from the team, but his own business incentive is to retain his sterling reputation as the sports medicine pioneer that he is, so he can continue raking it in from his fundamental business. What he earns from his sports medicine surgical business far outstrips any money he collects from the Redskins; [B]he knows where his bread gets buttered.[/B][/quote]

This does not sound like a Dr. who is not willing to put his sterling reputation on the line.

(This is a statement from Dr Andrews before the Redskins Seahawks game.)
“I’ve been a nervous wreck letting him come back as quick as he has,” Andrews added. “He’s doing a lot better this week, but he’s still recovering and I’m holding my breath because of it.”

Remember RG3 was 4 weeks into a "lvl 1 sprain" why so much concern? If he's a nervous wreck then he should not have cleared him for play, yet he did. Pass the butter please...

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

there's nothing scientifically controversial about stem cells. they work. amazingly well in a lot of cases. I'm not a big fan of burying our collective head in the sand because some people have religious heebeejeebees about even mentioning them (even non embrionic).

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=firstdown;990678]Yes it is and I had to watch as they did it to my oldest daughter. If you ever have to have it done tell them you want to be knocked out. My duaghter was under pretty good but as we waited for her drugs to kick in I heard several other who must not have taken enough drugs. They drill it out by twisting that green tool into the pelvis bone and then they suck out a sample.

[IMG]http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4903552147260985&pid=1.7&w=197&h=148&c=7&rs=1[/IMG][/quote]

Most likely the sample was taken while he was under anesthesia. And the picture above is of an interosseous kit, basically an IV that goes into the bone, usually the femur, rather than a vein. Us medics use em in the army, since it is easier to screw in the catheter rather than looking for a vein on a soldier that is under 50 lbs of gear, long sleeves and is dehydrated most likely. The process for removing actual bone marrow is a little more delicate than just shoving the corkscrew needle into the bone. Its akin to getting a spinal, just on a different part of the body, and is usually done in the operating room.

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=That Guy;990685]there's nothing scientifically controversial about stem cells. they work. amazingly well in a lot of cases. I'm not a big fan of burying our collective head in the sand because some people have religious heebeejeebees about even mentioning them (even non embrionic).[/quote]

That was my point above. You put it clearer. Thank you.

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=skinsfan69;990673]It will never happen. Not on Goodell's watch.[/quote]

I agree with you - I just don't understand it. The league should support any treatments that help players recover more quickly and/or effectively... It's just good business.

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

Hmmm.....a drill into your pelvis......
gak

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000130270/article/adrian-peterson-warns-against-rg3-injury-comparisons]Adrian Peterson warns against RG3 injury comparisons - NFL.com[/url]

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

Another source of stem cells.

[url=http://marrow.org/Get_Involved/Donate_Cord_Blood/Cord_Blood_FAQs.aspx]Cord Blood FAQs[/url]

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=GridIron26;990695][URL="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000130270/article/adrian-peterson-warns-against-rg3-injury-comparisons"]Adrian Peterson warns against RG3 injury comparisons - NFL.com[/URL][/quote]

Wow, if I were Bob Griff, I would find this a little condescending:

[quote]
This is also a matter of genetics," Peterson said. "Look at my dad. And my mom's side, my aunts and uncles, they're all ripped. At 50 years old, they've got six packs and eight packs.

"My body just heals differently. I know it has a lot to do with rehabilitation and work ethic -- but I really credit my genetics for my recovery as much as anything else.[/quote]

I have no problem with the suggestion that Peterson is a genetic marvel. But if I were Griffin I'd be like yo holmes, what am I, chopped liver? There's a reason I can run a 4.3 and win at hurdles and throw a ball on a dime. Jamaal Charles is another example of a lightning-quick-but-wiry athlete coming back strong from an ACL.

Elite athletes tend to heal quickly, and maybe this stem cell treatment has something to do with it. Being an elite athlete and healer is not exclusive to Adrian Peterson.

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=44ever;990679]This does not sound like a Dr. who is not willing to put his sterling reputation on the line.

(This is a statement from Dr Andrews before the Redskins Seahawks game.)
“I’ve been a nervous wreck letting him come back as quick as he has,” Andrews added. “He’s doing a lot better this week, but he’s still recovering and I’m holding my breath because of it.”

Remember RG3 was 4 weeks into a "lvl 1 sprain" why so much concern? If he's a nervous wreck then he should not have cleared him for play, yet he did. Pass the butter please...[/quote]

I am sure he, and any other doctor, holds their breath whenever a player comes back from a sprain. If doctors had their druthers the players would be out 8 weeks for a sprain to make 1000% sure the player was completely healed.

But that's not the reality of the NFL.

I definitely think he should have been pulled once he hurt himself at the end of the first quarter, that was clearly where he did damage to the knee. But entering that game he was 100% ready to play, as evidenced by that first quarter (two quick TDs) despite Andrews' nervous feelings.

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

Being cleared to play does not mean a player is fully healed.

A level one LCL sprain can take 3 weeks to 3 months to fully recover from.

[url=http://www.rcmclinic.com/patient-info/knee/diagnosis/59-knee-diagnosis/87-grade-i-lcl-sprain]Grade I Sprain of the Lateral Collateral Ligament (LCL)[/url]

Naturally, Andrews had cause for concern.

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;990601]Whats stiking is that you would question why some people are opposed to embryonic stem cell research - whether you agree with their point of view or not.

There was arguably scientific benefit to the horrific research the nazis did experimenting on prisoners in WWII. I hate to use such a extreme comparison to prove a point, as no rational person would equate what the nazis did to embryonic stem cell research, but the underlying principle is the same - Scientists can't just perform research because of the [I]potential[/I] benefits. Ethical concerns [U]should[/U] be weighed against potential benefits in any type of research.

The reasons many peope oppose research using embryonic stem cells are obvious. Whether you agree with their point of view is entirely another matter, and its entirely reasonable for a person to have no problems with embryonic stem cell research.[/quote]



The Nazis did horrible things, but the West surely used this research to advance society. The list goes on forever. The research has been used.

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

Who wants to bet that Shanny no longer listens to RGIII when it comes to his health again?

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=Mechanix544;990688]Most likely the sample was taken while he was under anesthesia. And the picture above is of an interosseous kit, basically an IV that goes into the bone, usually the femur, rather than a vein. Us medics use em in the army, since it is easier to screw in the catheter rather than looking for a vein on a soldier that is under 50 lbs of gear, long sleeves and is dehydrated most likely. The process for removing actual bone marrow is a little more delicate than just shoving the corkscrew needle into the bone. Its akin to getting a spinal, just on a different part of the body, and is usually done in the operating room.[/quote]

They might use something else in these type of cases but when they just need bone marrow for testing I know how its done and they use that tool. They drive in down into the bone (by hand), the suck out the core of bone they cut out using that tool. I saw it done and know this for a fact.

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

@JasonColeYahoo Redskins are getting daily video updates of RG3's rehab via Internet. He's already doing movement exercises on knee

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=12thMan;990848]@JasonColeYahoo Redskins are getting daily video updates of RG3's rehab via Internet. He's already doing movement exercises on knee[/quote]

That's standard. I was doing motion stuff the next week after my surgery. The pain of leg pressing 10lbs was tough to go though. I think it was more depressing because you struggle just to push 10 or so pounds...lol

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=NC_Skins;990786]Who wants to bet that Shanny no longer listens to RGIII when it comes to his health again?[/quote]

im with you on that no way he leaves him in the game again if we ever see the same type of scenario.

Re: Dr. Andrews Using Stem Cells to Speed Recovery??
 

[quote=NC_Skins;990857]That's standard. I was doing motion stuff the next week after my surgery. The pain of leg pressing 10lbs was tough to go though. I think it was more depressing because you struggle just to push 10 or so pounds...lol[/quote]


I agree but one thing RGIII has going for him is that he's done it all before the hard thing to do will be to tune others out and listen to the doctors .