Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2013/02/19/offseason-questions-can-the-redskins-count-on-brandon-meriweather/]Offseason questions: Can the Redskins count on Brandon Meriweather?[/url]

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

Is there a consensus here on Hall's future with us?

I think we should keep him. I like Hall more and more. Let the punches fly...

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=The Goat;994696]Is there a consensus here on Hall's future with us?

I think we should keep him. I like Hall more and more. Let the punches fly...[/quote]

If DHall is willing to be true to his word and take a pay cut to remain a Skin, I'm all for it.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=The Goat;994696]Is there a consensus here on Hall's future with us?

I think we should keep him. I like Hall more and more. Let the punches fly...[/quote]

My opinion on it all depends on how much of a pay cut he is willing to take. I have always wanted him cut, but that was due to his overall value of play vs pay. I always thought he was overpaid and that we could get two DHalls for the price we were paying him.

He has already said he is willing to restructure. If that restructure is from the approx 7.5 mil down to 5-6 mil, then cut him. Offer 3 mil and if he says yes, then ink it and move on to safety and RT. 4 mil, take a look at available options but might not really be much improvement at that price. Cant see us paying him 5 mil or above though, there is better value at that point imo.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

I've always liked D Hall and been a supporter, but I think its time to move on.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

Hall needs to take a pretty big cut to make it worth it. I'm kinda on the fence with him.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

I have that bad feeling that Hall will be kept..

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If we re-do Hall's contract to make it SKINS friendly then I'm a BIG YES we keep him.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;994182]I feel like I've seen this thread before[/quote]

Why do you post this crap kiddo? If you don't want to read/discuss just stay away...

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=Mattyk;994705]Hall needs to take a pretty big cut to make it worth it. I'm kinda on the fence with him.[/quote]

Indeed, my "yea" vote on Hall assumes a restructure.

That said I'm less concerned about our CB corp now. I think C Griffin can still contribute at a high enough level and Crawford is going to develop nicely. And Wilson is a sure thing IMO.

That leaves FS as our biggest need on defense unless Fletch goes, and when Hall restructures I think we should stick him at FS beginning with the preseason. We're unlikely to draft a starting caliber FS and why go onto the market and blow cash for a starter when we've got a damn good prospect in house?

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=The Goat;994751]Indeed, my "yea" vote on Hall assumes a restructure.

That said I'm less concerned about our CB corp now. I think C Griffin can still contribute at a high enough level and Crawford is going to develop nicely. And Wilson is a sure thing IMO.

That leaves FS as our biggest need on defense unless Fletch goes, and when Hall restructures I think we should stick him at FS beginning with the preseason. [B]We're unlikely to draft a starting caliber FS[/B] and why go onto the market and blow cash for a starter when we've got a damn good prospect in house?[/quote]

Why is that? Safety is pretty loaded in this draft. There should be a few nice prospects sitting there in the 2nd round.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=The Goat;994745]Why do you post this crap kiddo? If you don't want to read/discuss just stay away...[/quote]

Everyone has their roles on this here messageboard. Someone has to be:

[IMG]http://yahwehssong.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/negative-nancy.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

Depending on who you draft, you can find a starter in round 5 IMO. (TJ McDonald comes to mind)

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=Mattyk;994758]Why is that? Safety is pretty loaded in this draft. There should be a few nice prospects sitting there in the 2nd round.[/quote]

Yup. It seems reasonable to expect that our starting FS next year will be a drafted rookie.

We picked a good year to need safety help.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;994760]Depending on who you draft, you can find a starter in round 5 IMO. (TJ McDonald comes to mind)[/quote]

Although this is a deep draft for secondary players, you can't tell me keeping Hall on the team is a bad thing if the contract is right.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

Hall played well down the stretch but was killed the first half of the season. Id cut Hall tomorrow and let him test the market. We cant afford to carry that cap number. If we do have him back, nothing more over 2.5 million for a 1 year deal.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=Chico23231;994767]Hall played well down the stretch but was killed the first half of the season. Id cut Hall tomorrow and let him test the market. We cant afford to carry that cap number. If we do have him back, nothing more over 2.5 million for a 1 year deal.[/quote]Vet min, with a bonus if he slaps Dez Bryant again. :)

Definitely not worth the contract now. But hope we bring him back at a reasonable price, based on his contributions last season. Should be worth starter money, right?

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=SkinzWin;994763]Although this is a deep draft for secondary players, you can't tell me keeping Hall on the team is a bad thing if the contract is right.[/quote]

Well, as some of you may know, I don't like DHall. He is inconsistent to the max. One week he shuts down Dez Bryant, another week he gets burned and abused by Boldin.

Wonder if hall would be a good option at safety?

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;994789]Wonder if hall would be a good option at safety?[/quote]

IMO you want your safety to be a much better tackler than DHall.

[QUOTE=Lotus;994790]IMO you want your safety to be a much better tackler than DHall.[/QUOTE]

Good point. I'd love to get a player that made an impact like woodson did in green bay but obviously Charles woodson doesn't walk through many teams doors often.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;994775]Well, as some of you may know, I don't like DHall. He is inconsistent to the max. One week he shuts down Dez Bryant, another week he gets burned and abused by Boldin.[/quote]

Not that I'm a D Hall apologist, because he does have his issues, but Boldin abused pretty much everyone he faced this past year. I think he was much better the second half of the season as well and can continue that moving forward as our secondary improves. It will take pressure of him to have to make all the big plays.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;994789]Wonder if hall would be a good option at safety?[/quote]

They took a look last year and if he was any good he could have easily taken either spot with all the injuries and bad play from that position. I think that experiment is over.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=Lotus;994790]IMO you want your safety to be a much better tackler than DHall.[/quote]

I've posted the stats here before from PFF...Hall is one of the top-tackling safeties in football, so is Reed Doughty.

If Hall is true to his word and will stay for less money, I'd definitely keep him. If we can get our starting SS in Round 2 of the draft, we could use Hall at either nickel CB or starting FS. Hopefully Chase Minnifield or another FA or drafted rookie can be our other starting CB alongside Wilson.

Regardless, we need at least 2 new starters in the secondary, both safety spots. If we can get two outstanding safeties, we can keep Hall and Wilson at CB and be fine. If we can snag another great starting CB, moving Hall to FS is an attractive option to me. Anyway, we just need two starting safeties from somewhere...draft, FA or from moving Hall back there, which will only be possible if we get another quality CB.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=SkinzWin;994804]Not that I'm a D Hall apologist, because he does have his issues, but Boldin abused pretty much everyone he faced this past year. I think he was much better the second half of the season as well and can continue that moving forward as our secondary improves. It will take pressure of him to have to make all the big plays.[/quote]

Ok, Boldin maybe wasn't a great example.

Use Mike Williams, Vikings WRs, Steelers WRs, Amendola, and so on as examples of him getting beat like a drum.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=Monkeydad;994843]I've posted the stats here before from PFF...Hall is one of the top-tackling safeties in football, so is Reed Doughty.

If Hall is true to his word and will stay for less money, I'd definitely keep him. If we can get our starting SS in Round 2 of the draft, we could use Hall at either nickel CB or starting FS. Hopefully Chase Minnifield or another FA or drafted rookie can be our other starting CB alongside Wilson.

Regardless, we need at least 2 new starters in the secondary, both safety spots. If we can get two outstanding safeties, we can keep Hall and Wilson at CB and be fine. If we can snag another great starting CB, moving Hall to FS is an attractive option to me. Anyway, we just need two starting safeties from somewhere...draft, FA or from moving Hall back there, which will only be possible if we get another quality CB.[/quote]

Fair enough. I remember seeing stats that had Hall at the bottom in tackling. I've also seen Hall miss many makeable tackles. But I don't know where those stats I saw came from and I don't have time to look right now, so I will defer to your numbers and agree with you. As long as he can tackle, Hall should make a good safety.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=Mattyk;994758]Why is that? Safety is pretty loaded in this draft. There should be a few nice prospects sitting there in the 2nd round.[/quote]

It seems unlikely to score a starting caliber FS in the 2nd round, yeah. Admittedly I don't follow college ball enough to say this guy or that won't be available etc, but FS is one of the toughest positions in football IMO.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=hailgreen28;994769]vet min, [b]with a bonus if he slaps dez bryant again.[/b] :)

definitely not worth the contract now. But hope we bring him back at a reasonable price, based on his contributions last season. Should be worth starter money, right?[/quote]

lol

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=The Goat;994858]It seems unlikely to score a starting caliber FS in the 2nd round, yeah. Admittedly I don't follow college ball enough to say this guy or that won't be available etc, but FS is one of the toughest positions in football IMO.[/quote]

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2013/02/18/mike-mayock-safety-johnathan-cyprien-makes-a-lot-of-sense-for-redskins/]Mike Mayock: Safety Johnathan Cyprien ‘makes a lot of sense’ for Redskins[/url]

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=Monkeydad;994843]I've posted the stats here before from PFF...Hall is one of the top-tackling safeties in football, so is Reed Doughty.

If Hall is true to his word and will stay for less money, I'd definitely keep him. If we can get our starting SS in Round 2 of the draft, we could use Hall at either nickel CB or starting FS. Hopefully Chase Minnifield or another FA or drafted rookie can be our other starting CB alongside Wilson.

Regardless, we need at least 2 new starters in the secondary, both safety spots. If we can get two outstanding safeties, we can keep Hall and Wilson at CB and be fine. If we can snag another great starting CB, moving Hall to FS is an attractive option to me. Anyway, we just need two starting safeties from somewhere...draft, FA or from moving Hall back there, which will only be possible if we get another quality CB.[/quote]

Solid post. I wonder if FS can be solidified SS won't have to be addressed right away. Doughty played lights out toward the end of the season. Merriweather will come back for a minimal contract.
I'm just looking at overall team needs. RT has to be upgraded too, and we shouldn't skimp on that one. I'd like to think he's on our roster already but who knows. That guy needs to protect our passer well from day one.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

Not only could you get a starter at either safety position in the 2nd this year, but the 3rd round as well.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=Mattyk;994860][URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2013/02/18/mike-mayock-safety-johnathan-cyprien-makes-a-lot-of-sense-for-redskins/"]Mike Mayock: Safety Johnathan Cyprien ‘makes a lot of sense’ for Redskins[/URL][/quote]

Lots of speculation there. It'd be great if he fell to us though.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=The Goat;994696]Is there a consensus here on Hall's future with us?
[/quote]

Here's the thing with Hall.... his contract cannot be "restructured". A restructure is when a guy is gonna be on the team either way, and we rearrange the money to push more to the future. Trent Williams is a good example of a potential restructure.

There is 0% chance Hall comes back under his current contract, and we can release him for free (pretty much). So in other words Hall should be viewed as a [B]free agent[/B].

So the proper question is - should we bring in free agent DHall?

In this light I'm not sure I'd want him back. Not hating on DHall, but once we're bringing in a free agent I'd rather target youth. I suspect if Hall was coming from another team, no one would want us to take him.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;994877]Here's the thing with Hall.... his contract cannot be "restructured". A restructure is when a guy is gonna be on the team either way, and we rearrange the money to push more to the future. Trent Williams is a good example of a potential restructure.

There is 0% chance Hall comes back under his current contract, and we can release him for free (pretty much). So in other words Hall should be viewed as a [B]free agent[/B].

So the proper question is - should we bring in free agent DHall?

In this light I'm not sure I'd want him back. Not hating on DHall, but once we're bringing in a free agent I'd rather target youth. I suspect if Hall was coming from another team, no one would want us to take him.[/quote]

Good info.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;994877]Here's the thing with Hall.... his contract cannot be "restructured". A restructure is when a guy is gonna be on the team either way, and we rearrange the money to push more to the future. Trent Williams is a good example of a potential restructure.

There is 0% chance Hall comes back under his current contract, and we can release him for free (pretty much). So in other words Hall should be viewed as a [B]free agent[/B].

So the proper question is - should we bring in free agent DHall?

In this light I'm not sure I'd want him back. Not hating on DHall, but once we're bringing in a free agent I'd rather target youth. I suspect if Hall was coming from another team, no one would want us to take him.[/quote]

It is good info. But Hall's experience in the system and ball-hawk skills should still make him a top prospect in FA, at CB or FS. I mean, it seems like a plus we have to release him and deal as a FA situation.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

I can see us bringing him back if only because I doubt the market will have much interest in him. He seems to want to stay too.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=The Goat;994879]It is good info. But [B]Hall's experience in the system and ball-hawk skills[/B] should still make him a top prospect in FA, at CB or FS. I mean, it seems like a plus we have to release him and deal as a FA situation.[/quote]

Agreed. His athleticism and knowledge of the defense are the main things he has going for him.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;994877]Here's the thing with Hall.... his contract cannot be "restructured". A restructure is when a guy is gonna be on the team either way, and we rearrange the money to push more to the future. Trent Williams is a good example of a potential restructure.

There is 0% chance Hall comes back under his current contract, and we can release him for free (pretty much). So in other words Hall should be viewed as a [B]free agent[/B].

So the proper question is - should we bring in free agent DHall?

In this light I'm not sure I'd want him back. Not hating on DHall, but once we're bringing in a free agent I'd rather target youth. I suspect if Hall was coming from another team, no one would want us to take him.[/quote]



If he's willing to tear up his contract and take less than I wouldn't have a problem with it. By less, I mean in the 3mil/yr range. He's not worth anything more than that. He should play for free since he's been overpaid the past 5-6 years. Paying top money but getting low level production.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=Mattyk;994885]I can see us bringing him back if only because [B]I doubt the market will have much interest in him[/B]. He seems to want to stay too.[/quote]

And I think thats the answer to the question is it time to get rid of D Hall.

Re: Secondary is a Primary
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;994849]Ok, Boldin maybe wasn't a great example.

Use Mike Williams, Vikings WRs, Steelers WRs, Amendola, and so on as examples of him getting beat like a drum.[/quote]

I'll give you Mike Williams and Vikings WR's - Percy Harvin, but Steelers WRs were good all year and so was Amedola until he got hurt. I think D Hall did have some bad games, but what player doesn't?