Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

I don't know that Morocco has earned the right to just be anointed GM

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1049321][url=http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24375961/kyle-shanahan-staff-inexperience-at-core-of-redskins-dysfunction]Kyle Shanahan, staff inexperience at core of Redskins dysfunction[/url][/quote]Good riddance, Boy Wonder. Don't let the door hit you in the ass...

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1049434]I don't know that Morocco has earned the right to just be anointed GM[/quote]

So I take you are in favor of bringing in a cast of people and let the best man win eh?

As long as it isn't Pioli or some other retread, than I'm fine with it.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1049439]So I take you are in favor of bringing in a cast of people and let the best man win eh?

As long as it isn't Pioli or some other retread, than I'm fine with it.[/quote]

Yeah, test the waters some

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

I would love to see a Bruce Allen/ AJ Smith combination. AJ in charge of player acquisition, while Bruce handles contract negotiation and facilities development.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

Good lord, this drama is starting to sound alot like Cerrato is back in charge.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=VTSkins1961;1049185][B]I disagree. Mike is out an make no mistakes about it. Mike and RG3 have issues working with each other.[/B] [B]Mike and Snyder have issues[/B].... do the math. push come to shove Snyder would fire him but I think the negotiate an out.[/quote]

I think your wrong about that.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=VTSkins1961;1049185]I disagree. Mike is out an make no mistakes about it. Mike and RG3 have issues working with each other. Mike and Snyder have issues.... do the math. push come to shove Snyder would fire him but I think the negotiate an out.[/quote]

Insert Kyle for Mike and you're on to something.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1049412]... But you've got guys in sales, marketing, etc. who are just difficult people to work with/for. And, look I'm not saying they're the leaks, I'm just saying there are people in that building that I just don't trust.[/quote]

That is disheartening to hear. As I understood it, Cerrato encouraged these types of attitudes within the organization through his own blame shifting ways. When he was fired, and I praised the "culture change" that I believed Mike Shanahan and B. Allen were bringing to the organization. Unfortunately, whether half truths or not, it appears there are some [I]elements[/I] of truth to some of the various leaks about Kyle & Mike's motives.

Thus, while it seems obvious that Mike brought in "team" players and changed the culture of the locker room, it appears the deeper cancer within the organization has not been cured. In light of recent disclosures about Kyle and Mike, it appears that individuals who lack integrity, seek to shift blame and protect themselves by stabbing others in the back are still able to ply their through a lack of integrity. Certainly, Mike and Kyle have both been, at a minimum, disingenuous about their motives and by doing so demonstrate an organizational lack of integrity ("Hey, I am trying to be honest with you. I don't normally do that.").

My question is ... does DS know he has untrustworthy people working for him? Does he care? For these people, is all that matters to Dan that they "produce" in their specific line of responsibility (i.e. they are great marketers but backstabbing, lying SOB's)?

Mike may have fixed the integrity of the locker room, but it appears he has continued business as usual throughout the rest of the institutional structure. If true, this is on Snyder. The lack of institutional integrity will torpedo any organization and, ultimately, ensuring the Skin's institutional integrity is the responsibility of the Snyder.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1049486]That is disheartening to hear. As I understood it, Cerrato encouraged these types of attitudes within the organization through his own blame shifting ways. When he was fired, and I praised the "culture change" that I believed Mike Shanahan and B. Allen were bringing to the organization. Unfortunately, whether half truths or not, it appears there are some [I]elements[/I] of truth to some of the various leaks about Kyle & Mike's motives.

Thus, while it seems obvious that Mike brought in "team" players and changed the culture of the locker room, it appears the deeper cancer within the organization has not been cured. In light of recent disclosures about Kyle and Mike, it appears that individuals who lack integrity, seek to shift blame and protect themselves by stabbing others in the back are still able to ply their through a lack of integrity. Certainly, Mike and Kyle have both been, at a minimum, disingenuous about their motives and by doing so demonstrate an organizational lack of integrity ("Hey, I am trying to be honest with you. I don't normally do that.").

My question is ... does DS know he has untrustworthy people working for him? Does he care? For these people, is all that matters to Dan that they "produce" in their specific line of responsibility (i.e. they are great marketers but backstabbing, lying SOB's)?

Mike may have fixed the integrity of the locker room, but it appears he has continued business as usual throughout the rest of the institutional structure. If true, this is on Snyder. The lack of institutional integrity will torpedo any organization and, ultimately, ensuring the Skin's institutional integrity is the responsibility of the Snyder.[/quote]

Amazingly it actually is better even outside the locker room, just shows how bad it once was.

I think Snyder is aware that some people in his organization, while great at their assigned jobs, probably aren't going to win any congeniality awards. But he may not know the lengths they go to.

I've been approached a handful of times about joining that organization, and every time I meet with them I come away thinking it's really an every man for himself mentality there.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1049492]Amazingly it actually is better even outside the locker room, just shows how bad it once was.

I think Snyder is aware that some people in his organization, while great at their assigned jobs, probably aren't going to win any congeniality awards. But he may not know the lengths they go to.

I've been approached a handful of times about joining that organization, and every time I meet with them [b]I come away thinking it's really an every man for himself mentality there[/B].[/quote]

<sigh> That just royally sucks. Until that changes, it seems to me the best we can hope for is mediocrity - doesn't matter who coaches the team.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1049494]<sigh> That just royally sucks. Until that changes, it seems to me the best we can hope for is mediocrity - doesn't matter who coaches the team.[/quote]

It's a chicken or egg situation in some ways. These issues, at the very least, get buried when we're winning. But at the same time they play a big role in why we don't win more often

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1049347]It's-forgive me here-a bunch of half-truths[/quote]

Even with half truths, there is still a lot to be concerned about there.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1049504]It's a chicken or egg situation in some ways. These issues, at the very least, get buried when we're winning. But at the same time they play a big role in why we don't win more often[/quote]

Why doesnt someone recognize this and take action? Whose the responsible party to do that?


How come Im starting to feel like Shanny returns next year?

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

Why don't the sales and marketing people work over in Landover? That way they're away from the football people. Real simply process...the football people work one place, the sales people work in another place. Or they might already do that...

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1049507]Why don't the sales and marketing people work over in Landover? That way they're away from the football people. Real simply process...the football people work one place, the sales people work in another place. Or they might already do that...[/quote]

Some work at Landover, but most work at Redskins Park. Just like it would be for any NFL team

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1049506]Why doesnt someone recognize this and take action? Whose the responsible party to do that?


How come Im starting to feel like Shanny returns next year?[/quote]

I don't think Shanny comes back next year, but I think he and Snyder are in a game of chicken right now

As to the first part of the question, I don't know. Ultimately it's about deciding if you want to be a football team or a business. I mean every football team is a business. Some, like the Steelers, have historically been able to make a winning football team the primary driver of their business. But when you lose, you have to take other measures..and that's when it gets uncomfortable for all parties.

The first thing I would do is make Bruce Allen the President of the team. He's got the know how to do it. Put him firmly in charge of the organization, all aspects of it and let him hire the people he wants to make the team and the business better.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1049510]I don't think Shanny comes back next year, but I think he and Snyder are in a game of chicken right now

As to the first part of the question, I don't know. Ultimately it's about deciding if you want to be a football team or a business. I mean every football team is a business. Some, like the Steelers, have historically been able to make a winning football team the primary driver of their business. But when you lose, you have to take other measures..and that's when it gets uncomfortable for all parties.

[B]The first thing I would do is make Bruce Allen the President of the team. He's got the know how to do it. Put him firmly in charge of the organization, all aspects of it and let him hire the people he wants to make the team and the business better[/B].[/quote]

Totally agree.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1049510]The first thing I would do is make Bruce Allen the President of the team. He's got the know how to do it. Put him firmly in charge of the organization, all aspects of it and let him hire the people he wants to make the team and the business better.[/quote]


So is he inclined to hire M. Brown for GM or to bring in other people to interview for the job?

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1049513]So is he inclined to hire M. Brown for GM or to bring in other people to interview for the job?[/quote]

Well you know that I, and others (mainly others) have heard that it's Brown's job to lose or give up. But I'd like to think Allen has other people in mind.

And I mean maybe Brown would be great at the job. I'm just not totally convinced

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1049514]Well you know that I, and others (mainly others) have heard that it's Brown's job to lose or give up. But I'd like to think Allen has other people in mind.

And I mean maybe Brown would be great at the job. I'm just not totally convinced[/quote]

As long as it's Allen's decision to make to promote Brown, I'll get behind it.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1049424]Well, when Griff was drafted Shanahan (Mike) said it was going to be a three year (more or less) plan to develop him. Cousins was more of a "pro style QB' coming into the league. And they adjusted the offense to fit what was most comfortable for him (even though everyone said they were too stubborn and would never adapt their offense). As he got more comfortable the plan was to increase his arsenal (so to speak). But someone (some say it was Kyle, other says Mike) said "no, what we've got going on right now is working. Let's not mess with it"

And then he got hurt, and all hell broke loose.[/quote]

This is the problem I have. Why didn't they just put him in the normal offense and let him learn, instead of running some completely different offense? I heard all last year how Robert did not want to run the read option, and pretty much begged the coaching staff not to do it.

So why do it? Why not just let the kid either sink or swim instead of running some gimmick offense that wasn't going to last. Now, they set him back his first year by learning crap that really didn't need to be done, and then he's set back big time with the injury because he missed out of the time that should have been done last year.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

RG really wasn't running a different offense. They just added the read option and ran it out of the pistol vs under center.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1049510]I don't think Shanny comes back next year, but I think he and Snyder are in a game of chicken right now

As to the first part of the question, I don't know. Ultimately it's about deciding if you want to be a football team or a business. I mean every football team is a business. Some, like the Steelers, have historically been able to make a winning football team the primary driver of their business. But when you lose, you have to take other measures..and that's when it gets uncomfortable for all parties.

The first thing I would do is make Bruce Allen the President of the team. He's got the know how to do it. Put him firmly in charge of the organization, all aspects of it and let him hire the people he wants to make the team and the business better.[/quote]

Thanks for the insight. And I agree with making BA president.

It just seem like Shanny and Dan egos are way to big and its unprofessional imo. I mean this is some female stuff. Bruce Allen seems level headed enough to get between these two and come to a good decision.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

We lose Bruce and this place is totally F--ked.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1049519]RG really wasn't running a different offense. They just added the read option and ran it out of the pistol vs under center.[/quote]

Exactly. The read-option is merely a "plugin" to the normal Shanahan offense. It isn't a complete offense on its own. People don't seem to understand that.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1049519]RG really wasn't running a different offense. They just added the read option and ran it out of the pistol vs under center.[/quote]


I shouldn't have stated a different offense, I should have stated, why didn't they run the offense and leave out adding anything in. Why even do the pistol if he needed reps at under center to survive in this league?

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1049541]I shouldn't have stated a different offense, I should have stated, why didn't they run the offense and leave out adding anything in. Why even do the pistol if he needed reps at under center to survive in this league?[/quote]

Just look at the results last year, 10-6, rookie of the year, I don't think anyone can really argue with that. As SS said they had a 3 yr plan in mind, last year went so well (probably much better than they even expected) so they left well enough alone. The injury really took the plan off track.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=mredskins;1049531]We lose Bruce and this place is totally F--ked.[/quote]

I get the same feeling

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1049541]I shouldn't have stated a different offense, I should have stated, why didn't they run the offense and leave out adding anything in. Why even do the pistol if he needed reps at under center to survive in this league?[/quote]

You put your quarterback in the best situation to succeed. Letting RGIII run the read option and be in the pistol helped him a lot last year. This year, was supposed to be more of a transition away from the RO and then by year three, the hope was for RGIII to have developed into more of a pro style quarterback.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1049543]Just look at the results last year, 10-6, rookie of the year, I don't think anyone can really argue with that. As SS said they had a 3 yr plan in mind, last year went so well (probably much better than they even expected) so they left well enough alone. The injury really took the plan off track.[/quote]


Sure, you'll get good results on a short term level, but all it does is prolong the person's growth. Cam looked good under that modified offense he had his first year. Second year was pretty crappy, but I think much of that was him learning in his second season what he should have been learning in year one. Even at the beginning of the year he was struggling, then all of a sudden it's started clicking for him.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1049519]RG really wasn't running a different offense. They just added the read option and ran it out of the pistol vs under center.[/quote]

You are correct.

But IMO Gryphon and Cousins run the offense differently, even if it is essentially the same offense. And Cousins seems to run it more the way that the Shanahans want it to be. Cousins makes different, more "Shanahan" decisions that RGIII.

This might be a reason why RGIII was benched. Cousins seems to follow Shanny instructions more closely than RGIII.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

I love Cousins, and I hope we can snag a second and a fourth round pick or something like that for him in the offseason, lord knows we need the pick. But, is it just me, or did some of his balls look to float yesterday, or lack the mustard one would expect, even though it looked like he was stepping up and putting his ass behind his throws a bit?

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=Mechanix544;1049648]I love Cousins, and I hope we can snag a second and a fourth round pick or something like that for him in the offseason, lord knows we need the pick. But, is it just me, or did some of his balls look to float yesterday, or lack the mustard one would expect, even though it looked like he was stepping up and putting his ass behind his throws a bit?[/quote]

For the most part, his passes looked like laser beams.

I don't remember but there may have been some passes that he threw under duress where he didn't have much follow through.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

Bruce Allen can save this team if he is given control. At least he's savvy enough to steer clear of the media s**tstorm.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=Mechanix544;1049648]I love Cousins, and I hope we can snag a second and a fourth round pick or something like that for him in the offseason, lord knows we need the pick. But, is it just me, or did some of his balls look to float yesterday, or lack the mustard one would expect, even though it looked like he was stepping up and putting his ass behind his throws a bit?[/quote]
first thing i thought was i dont remember his arm being this strong. the pics were bad throws that were late. not a lot of timing between him and our WOs. probably from lack of work

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=Bakerman;1049808]Bruce Allen can save this team if he is given control. At least he's savvy enough to steer clear of the media s**tstorm.[/quote]

Agreed that he's the key to our future, but I don't think anyone can avoid the DC media or ESPN...they just make crap up if they don't have a real story to grab ratings and headlines.

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=Mechanix544;1049648]I love Cousins, and I hope we can snag a second and a fourth round pick or something like that for him in the offseason, lord knows we need the pick. But, is it just me, or did some of his balls look to float yesterday, or lack the mustard one would expect, even though it looked like he was stepping up and putting his ass behind his throws a bit?[/quote]

IMO Cousins has an adequately strong arm. I worry about his accuracy and decision-making, since these were problems he had in college and appears to struggle with still. When Cousins misses his target, he often misses by a big margin and his passes then get picked, as we saw against Atlanta.

[QUOTE=Lotus;1049861]IMO Cousins has an adequately strong arm. I worry about his accuracy and decision-making, since these were problems he had in college and appears to struggle with still. When Cousins misses his target, he often misses by a big margin and his passes then get picked, as we saw against Atlanta.[/QUOTE]

He was a late rd pick for a reason

Re: Goodbye Kyle?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1049866]He was a late rd pick for a reason[/quote]

Mid round pick. Russell Wilson and Nick Foles were both taken within a round before him. But those guys were "late" round picks for a reason too, right? On the flip side, why isnt Mark Sanchez playing now? He was a first round pick for a reason, right?