Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1062478]So the fact that he was the third target means nothing about the 43 catches right?[/quote]

To me it comes down to getting some guys that can match up with the best teams in the conference, Seattle, Carolina and SF. We played those teams in 12 and 13. They basically trampled us in the trenches. A long time ago this is what we use to do to teams. Roberts is a solid player, good signing, but is he going to really help us become an elite team? Now Michael Johnson is someone I would have made a move for. I find a way to get him in my 3-4/ 4-3 hybrid defense. He makes Rak and Kerrigan better. TB already signed him so that's a no go.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

Free agency is just getting started, just because we signed a WR out of the gate doesn't mean other positions are being ignored. Patience. Let's see how it all plays out.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=mooby;1062470]Since you can see the future can you tell me when the Redskins are gonna win the SB again?[/quote]Yes, but you won't like the answer.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1062499]To me it comes down to getting some guys that can match up with the best teams in the conference, Seattle, Carolina and SF. We played those teams in 12 and 13. They basically trampled us in the trenches. A long time ago this is what we use to do to teams. Roberts is a solid player, good signing, but is he going to really help us become an elite team? Now Michael Johnson is someone I would have made a move for. I find a way to get him in my 3-4/ 4-3 hybrid defense.[/quote]

A) Roberts alone does not help us to match up with the teams you mentioned. However, he is our first offseason move. There is already discussion about our acquiring Linval Joseph - how is that for working on the trenches? And once we have matched up in the trenches, a capable slot receiver can be a difference-maker.

B) Michael Johnson? Talented, sure. But he is too small for our DL, which means he'd change positions to OLB for us. Can he cover? Can he make the transition? Does he want to make the transition? Fact is, we're likely better off sticking with Kerrakpo.

Therefore, (C):
You're knocking the small Roberts signing but you're calling for big $$ to be spent to make a player change positions.

I don't get (C)

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1062495]Just call it like I see it. [B]If we sign him and he gets arrested you'll be the first one complaining[/B]![/quote]

From what I have read, the guy is not just a good signing talent-wise, he is a solid character guy. What makes you think the guy is even a prospect for character flags other than "He's not a superstar on a bad team so he really has no place with us."?

By calling this a good signing, I don't think anyone is saying "Wohooo!! Superbowl here we come!!" More like "Cool, solid guy, looks like he can help and is a younger alternative to, and possible improvement on, Moss."

You're right though. The first announcement should have been that we traded our next three first round picks for Revis Island.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1062506]From what I have read, the guy is not just a good signing talent-wise, he is a solid character guy. What makes you think the guy is even a prospect for character flags other than "He's not a superstar on a bad team so he really has no place with us."?

By calling this a good signing, I don't think anyone is saying "Wohooo!! Superbowl here we come!!" More like "Cool, solid guy, looks like he can help and is a younger alternative to, and possible improvement on, Moss."

You're right though. The first announcement should have been that we traded our next three first round picks for Revis Island.[/quote]

Pretty sure he was talking about Britt.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1062508]Pretty sure he was talking about Britt.[/quote]

Yeah it was Britt but I confused at first too.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1062437]Roberts at this price will be a much stronger addition a year from now when Garcon is a cap casualty. Assuming the Redskins aren't done signing receivers (spoiler: they aren't), his reps are going to be tough to come by this year.[/quote]

Really? What would make you think our only weapon Garcon will be cut in a year? If that comes off a certain way its not im just curious.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

Hes an upgrade over Aldrick... Depth signing...

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

roberts is a solid signing. i doubt it's more than 3-4mill guaranteed, so it's low risk.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

and anyone that thinks garcon is getting cut next year is some kind of crazy. unless you're planning on lead-piping his knee or some such.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=That Guy;1062523]and anyone that thinks garcon is getting cut next year is some kind of crazy. unless you're planning on lead-piping his knee or some such.[/quote]Or understand how backloaded deals affect the cap.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=Skins4L;1062517]Really? What would make you think our only weapon Garcon will be cut in a year? If that comes off a certain way its not im just curious.[/quote]There's a new coaching staff, who isn't going to hold onto a player just to hold onto a player. If you can get the same production for half the price, they'll do it.

Yeah this is just another guy imo

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1062525]Or understand how backloaded deals affect the cap.[/quote]

yeah, its more cap related than performance related. Gruden is a fan, if Garcon plays well, you can always iron out a backloaded deal.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1062525]Or understand how backloaded deals affect the cap.[/quote]

His deal isn't a cap killer, nor is it a backloaded deal in the sense of skyrocketing cap charges. His base salary, dead cap and cap savings per year of his deal is :
Year
2012 $2,100,000 $13,100,000 ($8,400,000)
2013 $5,600,000 $8,800,000 ($615,625)
2014 $7,100,000 $6,600,000 $3,100,000
2015 $7,100,000 $4,400,000 $5,300,000
2016 $7,600,000 $2,200,000 $8,000,000

That's a consistent base salary, which indicates a team is looking to count on him, and not be forced into a decision based on outrageous base or cap numbers.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1062536]His deal isn't a cap killer, nor is it a backloaded deal in the sense of skyrocketing cap charges. His base salary, dead cap and cap savings per year of his deal is :
Year
2012 $2,100,000 $13,100,000 ($8,400,000)
2013 $5,600,000 $8,800,000 ($615,625)
2014 $7,100,000 $6,600,000 $3,100,000
2015 $7,100,000 $4,400,000 $5,300,000
2016 $7,600,000 $2,200,000 $8,000,000

That's a consistent base salary, which indicates a team is looking to count on him, and not be forced into a decision based on outrageous base or cap numbers.[/quote]Can save $5.3 million to release or $7.5 million with a post June 1 designation.

$5 MM AAV can get you a better receiver than Garcon on the open market in most years. Plus: they're going to draft someone from a loaded WR class who is going to need someone to get released from the rotation in order to get increased reps.

It's a no brainer.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

Glad you are not in FO Gtripp. I am going to walk away. have a great day.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=Chico23231;1062529]yeah, its more cap related than performance related. Gruden is a fan, if Garcon plays well, you can always iron out a backloaded deal.[/quote]If Gruden is a fan. Gruden came from Cincinnati, where he had AJ Green, Marvin Jones, Mohammad Sanu, and Andrew Hawkins. He's going to try to put something similar together here, and that gets a lot easier when Garcon isn't hogging $9 million on the cap.

He's a necessary part of this year's roster, so I'm not suggesting that Gruden can't wait to get Garcon out of town. I just think the offense is going to be Jordan Reed-centric because...well, obviously.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

Well if Gruden [I]continues[/I] to be a fan. He's stated he showed film of Garcon to his receivers and has stated such.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=Chico23231;1062547]Well if Gruden [I]continues[/I] to be a fan. He's stated he showed film of Garcon to his receivers and has stated such.[/quote]Indy Garcon, I hope.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

The WP offseason Twilight Zone lives on...


Our best offensive player and the league leader in catches is no better than Leonard Hankerson, who is on the way to being a draft bust.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1062541]Can save $5.3 million to release or $7.5 million with a post June 1 designation.

$5 MM AAV can get you a better receiver than Garcon on the open market in most years. Plus: they're going to draft someone from a loaded WR class who is going to need someone to get released from the rotation in order to get increased reps.

It's a no brainer.[/quote]

You are always so self-assured in your opinions yet they are so often completely detached from reality.

Garcon led the NFL in receptions this year, GTripp. Go spout your know-it-all bullshit somewhere else.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=Schneed10;1062565]You are always so self-assured in your opinions yet they are so often completely detached from reality.

Garcon led the NFL in receptions this year, GTripp. Go spout your know-it-all bullshit somewhere else.[/quote]Edelman was second, no?

Are you giving him 10 million a season?

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1062543]If Gruden is a fan. Gruden came from Cincinnati, where he had AJ Green, Marvin Jones, Mohammad Sanu, and Andrew Hawkins. He's going to try to put something similar together here, and that gets a lot easier when Garcon isn't hogging $9 million on the cap.

He's a necessary part of this year's roster, so I'm not suggesting that Gruden can't wait to get Garcon out of town. I just think the offense is going to be Jordan Reed-centric because...well, obviously.[/quote]

So I guess when AJ Green's contract extension comes up, which should be sometime in the next couple years, do you think the Bengals won't be willing to give him a huge deal with a large cap hit? Because if they want to keep their nice core of receivers together, it's going to be hard to justify when one of them has a huge salary.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=mooby;1062580]So I guess when AJ Green's contract extension comes up, which should be sometime in the next couple years, do you think the Bengals won't be willing to give him a huge deal with a large cap hit? Because if they want to keep their nice core of receivers together, it's going to be hard to justify when one of them has a huge salary.[/quote]No because A.J. Green is treated as one of the 10 best offensive players in football by both offenses and defenses. So if you have to, you just allocate more resources to the receiver position.

I know people find this objectionable, but Garcon is just a guy. He's not a bad player. He's just an unremarkable one, one with strengths (he blocks well and he's great after the catch), and weaknesses (he needs the scheme to get him open, inconsistent catcher). I like him more than Julian Edelman, but they're both proof that 100 catches can be done by any player of quality in the NFL, not just the special guys. He's the same guy he was in Indy when he split reps with Austin Collie.

Sometimes, you'll see a team follow him with a better cover guy, but that's more an indictment of the rest of the offense than a complement of Garcon. Safety alignment never changes based on where he lines up.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

If Garcon is as productive this year as last, which most assume he will be, or close to it, no way we let our true number one walk. To think so is just crazy. We have some cap money to spend, and will next year as well. Its like fans want a bad ass team, but want to sign 95% of the players to vet min money. Its not your money, so just be worried about the player.

We finally hit on a legitimate free agent who we paid big money, like we have done so many times before, and when finally one of them performs outstanding, his cap hit is too much, so he is going to become a cap casualty? We let the league leader in catches (even when RG3 is in a down year) go to another squad?????????? You smokin something?

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1062584]No because A.J. Green is treated as one of the 10 best offensive players in football by both offenses and defenses. So if you have to, you just allocate more resources to the receiver position.

I know people find this objectionable, but Garcon is just a guy. He's not a bad player. He's just an unremarkable one, one with strengths (he blocks well and he's great after the catch), and weaknesses (he needs the scheme to get him open, inconsistent catcher). I like him more than Julian Edelman, but they're both proof that 100 catches can be done by any player of quality in the NFL, not just the special guys. He's the same guy he was in Indy when he split reps with Austin Collie.

Sometimes, you'll see a team follow him with a better cover guy, but that's more an indictment of the rest of the offense than a complement of Garcon. Safety alignment never changes based on where he lines up.[/quote]

Garcon is just a guy? Ok, Ive heard enough of this lunacy.......

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1062566]Edelman was second, no?

Are you giving him 10 million a season?[/quote]

The slot WR in Brady's offense is a terrible comparison and you know it.

Secondly, I don't mind people being wrong, but when you're a know-it-all blowhard AND you're wrong, then I hate it. You need to just shut the fuck up and here's why.

Last year Garcon's cap number was $8.2M in a season when the cap was $123M. In other words he occupied 6.7% of the team's cap space.

This year with the cap at $133M and his cap number at $9.7M, he will occupy 7.3% of the team's cap space.

Next year and the year after, when you're proposing the team cut him, [B]he will occupy less % of space than he will this year[/B]. Next year his cap number will be $9.7M or 6.9% of an estimated $140M cap. And in 2016 he will have a cap number of $10.2M, or 6.8% of an estimated $150M cap. And the cap may actually go up faster than that, making those %s even lower.

Again, currently 7.3% of the cap. Next year, 6.9% of the cap. 2016, 6.8% of the cap. And that's if they decide not to restructure any of that base salary and extend him.

Just shut the fuck up. He's an integral part of the team, one of the best players we have, Griffin's favorite target by far. He's not going anywhere. Now please just go away.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

I am a Johnny come lately to the Garcon conversation, but he is worth every single penny we are paying him... His play last year proved that Mike got this signing right...

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=Fiversons;1062588]I am a Johnny come lately to the Garcon conversation, but he is worth every single penny we are paying him... His play last year proved that Mike got this signing right...[/quote]

Welcome to the WP!

gtripp has always been our resident pessimist, but he's gone all Mylie Cyrus-crazy on us this offseason.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=Schneed10;1062587]The slot WR in Brady's offense is a terrible comparison and you know it.

[B]Secondly, I don't mind people being wrong, but when you're a know-it-all blowhard AND you're wrong, then I hate it. You need to just shut the fuck up and here's why.[/B]

Last year Garcon's cap number was $8.2M in a season when the cap was $123M. In other words he occupied 6.7% of the team's cap space.

This year with the cap at $133M and his cap number at $9.7M, he will occupy 7.3% of the team's cap space.

Next year and the year after, when you're proposing the team cut him, [B]he will occupy less % of space than he will this year[/B]. Next year his cap number will be $9.7M or 6.9% of an estimated $140M cap. And in 2016 he will have a cap number of $10.2M, or 6.8% of an estimated $150M cap. And the cap may actually go up faster than that, making those %s even lower.

Again, currently 7.3% of the cap. Next year, 6.9% of the cap. 2016, 6.8% of the cap. And that's if they decide not to restructure any of that base salary and extend him.

Just shut the fuck up. He's an integral part of the team, one of the best players we have, Griffin's favorite target by far. He's not going anywhere. Now please just go away.[/quote]Weird, because I hate that too! I guess we're pretty similar.

And you'll hate to find out how meaningless it is to lead the league in receptions when people think that matters! Do it on fewer targets, and then you'll really impress me. High efficiency is sexy.

Here's the thing, he's an integral part of a past team. I respect your salary cap percentage argument, though even you would admit that it's comparing apples to oranges given how much the Redskins spent in terms of cash in 2013 vs. 2015 projections. The marginal value of the cap space will be very relevant, and that's what matters.

You want to bet on Garcon being on this team next season? Cool. You can do that. It's a dumb bet, and no one is going to remember this anyway.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=Schneed10;1062587]The slot WR in Brady's offense is a terrible comparison and you know it.

Secondly, I don't mind people being wrong, but when you're a know-it-all blowhard AND you're wrong, then I hate it. You need to just shut the fuck up and here's why.

Last year Garcon's cap number was $8.2M in a season when the cap was $123M. In other words he occupied 6.7% of the team's cap space.

This year with the cap at $133M and his cap number at $9.7M, he will occupy 7.3% of the team's cap space.

Next year and the year after, when you're proposing the team cut him, [B]he will occupy less % of space than he will this year[/B]. Next year his cap number will be $9.7M or 6.9% of an estimated $140M cap. And in 2016 he will have a cap number of $10.2M, or 6.8% of an estimated $150M cap. And the cap may actually go up faster than that, making those %s even lower.

Again, currently 7.3% of the cap. Next year, 6.9% of the cap. 2016, 6.8% of the cap. And that's if they decide not to restructure any of that base salary and extend him.

Just shut the fuck up. He's an integral part of the team, one of the best players we have, Griffin's favorite target by far. He's not going anywhere. Now please just go away.[/quote]

[IMG]http://media.giphy.com/media/NnGGHE0muVqpO/giphy.gif[/IMG]

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=Fiversons;1062588]I am a Johnny come lately to the Garcon conversation, but he is worth every single penny we are paying him... His play last year proved that Mike got this signing right...[/quote]I'll take things you don't want quoted for $500, Alex.

In all seriousness, happy you're here. New members are the lifeblood of the internet forum industry!

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

So back to Andre Roberts...

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=Lotus;1062503]A) Roberts alone does not help us to match up with the teams you mentioned. However, he is our first offseason move. There is already discussion about our acquiring Linval Joseph - how is that for working on the trenches? And once we have matched up in the trenches, a capable slot receiver can be a difference-maker.

B) Michael Johnson? Talented, sure. But he is too small for our DL, which means he'd change positions to OLB for us. Can he cover? Can he make the transition? Does he want to make the transition? Fact is, we're likely better off sticking with Kerrakpo.

Therefore, (C):
You're knocking the small Roberts signing but you're calling for big $$ to be spent to make a player change positions.

I don't get (C)[/quote]

Yeah Johnson doesn't fit our defense when we're in the 3-4. In passing situations when we have a 4 man line he might. But I agree, Johnson isn't the best fit here.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

Well, score one in the books for the deplorable executives who say things like "fans can never understand the game they're watching."

I really hate it when he's right. We're better than he gives us credit for.

When this thread gets bumped anonymously two years from now, it's going to be hilarious.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1062591]Weird, because I hate that too! I guess we're pretty similar.

And you'll hate to find out how meaningless it is to lead the league in receptions when people think that matters! Do it on fewer targets, and then you'll really impress me. High efficiency is sexy.

Here's the thing, he's an integral part of a past team. I respect your salary cap percentage argument, though even you would admit that it's comparing apples to oranges given how much the Redskins spent in terms of cash in 2013 vs. 2015 projections. The marginal value of the cap space will be very relevant, and that's what matters.

You want to bet on Garcon being on this team next season? Cool. You can do that. It's a dumb bet, and no one is going to remember this anyway.[/quote]

Cash is irrelevant, cap is the constraint for the Redskins, not cash. Cash is an issue for teams like the Bengals and Bills, not us.

As for marginal value, you're forgetting about the contract inflation that comes along with an increasing cap. When 2015 hits and the cap is $140M or higher, a $10M cap number for a highly effective WR will not seem bad in comparison. In fact I don't think you'll be able to find a single better value among the players who hit the open market next year.

As for a bet, yes I'll take it with you any day, he will absolutely be a Redskin in 2015. I think people around here will look forward to seeing you proved wrong a lot more than you think.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1062597]So back to Andre Roberts...[/quote]Can't talk about other team's players, that's tampering.

Re: WR Andre Roberts has agreed to deal with Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1062591]Weird, because I hate that too! I guess we're pretty similar.

And you'll hate to find out how meaningless it is to lead the league in receptions when people think that matters! Do it on fewer targets, and then you'll really impress me. High efficiency is sexy.

Here's the thing, he's an integral part of a past team. I respect your salary cap percentage argument, though even you would admit that it's comparing apples to oranges given how much the Redskins spent in terms of cash in 2013 vs. 2015 projections. The marginal value of the cap space will be very relevant, and that's what matters.

[B]You want to bet on Garcon being on this team next season? Cool. You can do that. It's a dumb bet, and no one is going to remember this anyway.[/B][/quote]

$100.00 Right here, right now says, barring a new (not just a recurrence of the plantar faciiitis) PG is on the team next year. I don't care how you mark it down, hold me to it, etc. if right, you can remind the entire WP.

$100 cash money.