Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

They're young and they want to hang with their crew while they work out, I don't care. We had the same stuff last season with Taylor and he worked out fine. I do think that he'll look bakc on it at some point and feel stupid, peer pressure is a hell of a thing.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I didn't say it, but keep agreeing with me![/QUOTE]

Hahaha. Sorry, I didn't mean to misquote you. I'll do my best to keep on being very agreeable. LOL

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Moss not being there is very damaging to Ramsey's progress I think. ST should be there sure and he's a head case but I really don't see it affecting the season much. Moss not being there is a big problem. Frankly, the Redskins need full participation from everyone involved in that passing game.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Moss especially if he wants the bucks of a #1 receiver.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

People turned on Coles in a heartbeat....what do those people have to say about Moss?

Coles told friends he was going to "sit out" of team meetings, camp, etc. But Moss is...WTF? Sounds like Coles is more of a team guy than Moss.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

I'm starting to feel the same way. When Moss came in he was spouting all this rhetoric about how excited he was to get started, blah blah blah.

I'm not going to turn on him quite yet, I AM however, very disappointed.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Come on, I'm surprised you guys have not figured this out. They are still celebrating Taylors birthday. LOL

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Hahaha! I guess Moss is still hungover and just "acting" like he wants a new contract.

Sounds logical to me.:biggthump

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Last year when I said that Sean Taylor was a meathead and it looked like he would be a "problem child", everyone here got their shorts in a knot because he was a "beast". Well, he cost the Skins a few games last year and was responsible for winning exactly none of them. Now he is showing what a team leader he is going to be. And now people here are upset with him. What took you all so long?

Folks, this is Sean Taylor. This is what he is and what he is going to be for the duration of his career in the NFL. The single best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If you love him as a "beast" then you have to take him for the team leader that he is - which is to say he ain't much of one!

He - and Moss - have Drew Rosenhaus as their agent. People around here really don't like the Poston brothers but I suggest that all of you start keeping track of Rosenhaus because this guy is far more trouble than the Postons ever were or ever will be.

There used to be an agent for NFL players who was famous for having his clients hold out - - with or without contracts. He became such a pain in the ass that lots of teams would not deal with him or any players he represented. He had to leave the business because none of his clients could get any deals done. Rosenhaus looks to me like the person best suited to take over that role for tomorrow.

And just so everyone here gets it right, you spell it:


M E A T H E A D

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

I COMPLETELY and totally agree with you about Rosenhaus. The guy is a complete joke. I've started thinking that same thing recently, especially with how the Eagles are having problems all of a sudden.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Moss is showing me that he is not really interested in winning or becoming better, he just wants to do as little as possible and collect as much as possible, all I keep hearing from Jet fans around here is how he doesn't like to finish play's, he plays like he will do whatever it takes not to get hit or hurt, I would be very catious about locking this guy up long term, we may very well have to bite the bullet on this one if thats the case so be it.

As for Taylor, I was a big backer of his from day one, but as I continually see his nonesense he becomes more and more wearisome, I have to agree with SC, MEATHEAD! I don't know if I really would want to renegotiate his contract, he signed it, end of story let him honor his word, I could care less how under paid he is, there is a reason he continually misses meeting's and mini camps, if he want's to renegotiate then let him prove he's mature enough, and responsible enough to warrant that kind of investment!

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Just like I said before, if you do what you're supposed to do, Gibbs himself will go to bat for you.

I too, am worried about locking up Moss for the long-term. Let him sign the one-year, incentive-based deal.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

I don't think Taylor is a Rhodes Scholar or anyone I'd want as a role model for my kids, but what games did he cost the Redskins last year? And how many safeties do you expect to have "game winning" plays? I remember several plays where he stopped touchdowns, intercepted or batted-down long passes, and made the tackle on third downs to stop the other team's drive. He wasn't the best player in the league, but I was more than satisfied with his performance, especially as a rookie.

His off the field antics are sad, and he should grow up, but in the end they are being made out to be worse than they are. These are football players, we don't have to take them home to meet the folks.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

I completely agree with that. As I said in another post, it's not like we have Randy Moss here or anything...

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

[QUOTE=CooleyAsCanBe]I don't think Taylor is a Rhodes Scholar or anyone I'd want as a role model for my kids, but what games did he cost the Redskins last year? And how many safeties do you expect to have "game winning" plays? I remember several plays where he stopped touchdowns, intercepted or batted-down long passes, and made the tackle on third downs to stop the other team's drive. He wasn't the best player in the league, but I was more than satisfied with his performance, especially as a rookie.

His off the field antics are sad, and he should grow up, but in the end they are being made out to be worse than they are. These are football players, we don't have to take them home to meet the folks.[/QUOTE]

Was it Taylor who cost us the second Cowboys game? Either way, I agree with what you said. Let the kid grow as a player and as a person

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Some people argue that, but I don't believe that WR was his responsibility. He played a bit closer to Keyshawn than the other guy, but still almost made the play. He was a rookie, but he was covering the guy a lot of people thought the ball was going to. Instead they toss it to an undrafted rookie. He bit on Keyshawn, but in a lot of cases that's the right move.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

I do think that Taylor blew that coverage, but he also caused the fumble from Jones that would have been a sure touchdown.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

So I think they offset each other.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

I guess it is arguable that he cost us that game. His other interceptions in games against San Fran and Chicago were enough to offset that.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

In the end, I think we are all being blinded by the boredom of the offseason. Matty is right, these are "voluntary" workouts.

How many of you wish Gibbs had kicked Riggins off the team for all the crap he did? Granted, Riggo was a veteran and had proven himself more than Taylor has, but read this quote from the old Bill Simmons article on the Hogs and tell me Taylor is worse: ([url]http://espn.go.com/page2/wash/s/simmons/020314.html[/url])

"Just the mere mention of [Riggins] prompted four or five quick anecdotes. Remember the time Riggo hitchhiked to the NFC Championship Game and the coaches inadvertently picked him up? Remember the time Riggo pulled five chairs together, stretched out on them and took a nap during a team meeting? Remember the time Riggo retired and lived in a pup tent on the Potomac River for an entire winter?

Maybe the defining Riggo story: During one team meeting, the players heard a strange noise from inside the locker room, like the sound you hear when it just starts to pour rain. They glanced in the back and there was a groggy Riggins, lying on his back, his pants pulled down, peeing straight into the air all over himself. Gibbs and the poor coaching staff always looked the other way with Riggo, as long as he was coherent on Sundays, but this seemed a little much ... and yet the coaching staff never did anything. 'They always looked the other way with him,' said May. 'It just wasn't Gibbs's nature to constantly battle with a player like that.'"

He was often out of shape, missed or fell asleep in meetings and couldn't have been a great support in the locker room when all this was happening. Yet, he did well on the field. Gibbs turned a blind eye to all that, and I don't see this being nearly as bad.

P.S. I'm sure most of you read that article, but if you haven't, it is amazing.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Matty, the Redskins & their fans wish they had the "problems" NE has.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

CooleyAsCanBe:

Go dig out your video tapes from last year's games.

Now, check out Dallas II. Who is the guy playing safety in a deep cover-2 in the final minute whose job it is not to let anyone behind him? HInt: He wears #36. He gets lured into watching the backfield and doesn't get to double the WR deep when Springs thinks he has deep help. Result: Winning TD. This is with less than a minute to play and the Cowboys in their own territory and out of timeouts and needing a TD. Hard to blame anyone else for that one.


Now go and check out Eagles night game. Taylor's man catches a pass at the 1 yard line for a first down - sorry I don't recall if was the TE or Westbrook. Next play is a handoff to Dorsey Levens who gets hit at the line of scrimmage by some guy wearing #36. But #36 forgets to wrap up and Levens manages to survive that "beastly hit" and score a TD. That was the difference in the game. Clean hit by #36 with lots of ferocity, but the result was "TD - Not Washington Redskins" - apologies to Frank Herzog for that one.


That is just from memory so when you do your film review from 2004, maybe you can show me where he singlehandedly won a game for the Skins. I must have been napping when that happened...

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Like I said before, he prevented a touchdown by stripping Jones which the Redskins recovered in the second Dallas game. He DID also give up that last touchdown. I would say it's a push in that situation.

In the end, I hate to go and blame particular players for losses. Our offense was really to blame for the woes of 2004.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

I think the difference is that Riggo performed on the field and played best in the biggest games. None of these guys has done anything on the field. When they finally do something/anything that comes remotely close to winning then they can goof off.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Yeah, ST is the only rookie safety who has ever made mistakes and blown coverages. Every other rook DB in the history of the league has been the effing MAN immediately, except ST.
Come one, every rookie DB who starts gets worked by somebody, but Talyor is a beast. He's going to awesome, a bigger faster version of Troy Pomalu (I fofgert how to spell his name) up in Pittsburg. He also had a shaky rookie season, but was solid last year. Taylor will be fine. Moss is a dumbass, all talk, no production, a mini-Keyshawn.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

I'm not going to pass complete judgement on Moss just yet. I'm just disappointed.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Balmerskinsfan:

Polamalu (sp?) was a key contributor on a defense that took a team to a 15-1 record in his 2nd season after he didn't start for most of the first season. He got some All-Pro votes as I recall, too.

So, are you calling for ST to do the same thing? That would be nice. But it ain't gonna happen... LIke I said, if you love him as a "beast" then you will have to love his beastly behaviors. And you'll have to find ways to convince yourself that his "mental errors" aren't so debilitating because you love to see him make a really big hit.

Frankly, I prefer results. You can be a huge hitter AND play smart and winning football. See Ronnie Lott, Brian Dawkins, Jack Tatum, NIght Train Lane, Lem Barney, Ken Houston and a hundred or so of the really good linebackers. Or you can play like Sean Taylor...

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]CooleyAsCanBe:

Go dig out your video tapes from last year's games.

Now, check out Dallas II. Who is the guy playing safety in a deep cover-2 in the final minute whose job it is not to let anyone behind him? HInt: He wears #36. He gets lured into watching the backfield and doesn't get to double the WR deep when Springs thinks he has deep help. Result: Winning TD. This is with less than a minute to play and the Cowboys in their own territory and out of timeouts and needing a TD. Hard to blame anyone else for that one.


Now go and check out Eagles night game. Taylor's man catches a pass at the 1 yard line for a first down - sorry I don't recall if was the TE or Westbrook. Next play is a handoff to Dorsey Levens who gets hit at the line of scrimmage by some guy wearing #36. But #36 forgets to wrap up and Levens manages to survive that "beastly hit" and score a TD. That was the difference in the game. Clean hit by #36 with lots of ferocity, but the result was "TD - Not Washington Redskins" - apologies to Frank Herzog for that one.


That is just from memory so when you do your film review from 2004, maybe you can show me where he singlehandedly won a game for the Skins. I must have been napping when that happened...[/QUOTE]

SC, your logic is confusing. Are you saying that Ramsey's late interception and overall poor play for the first three quarters wasn't what cost us the Eagles game? Placing all the blame on one failed tackle or one blown coverage is flawed. Saying someone cost us that game should mean at least that, in addition to one late play, their entire performance balanced out to be negative and tipped the scales. My whole point in the first post wasn't that Taylor had game-winning plays, but that he was a positive factor on the team, outweighing his off-field antics.

MalcomConnection has pointed out Taylor's strip that stopped another touchdown against Dallas. By your own logic, Taylor "singlehandedly" won any game in which he had a touchdown saving tackle or interception and the final score was decided by less than a touchdown. The Chicago game by making the final interception, or the Vikings game by stopping Moss' deep catch down the middle (granted, he also cost us a touchdown in that game-a perfect example of why your all or nothing logic doesn’t hold water).

I'm not saying he is perfect, but blaming his missed tackle for us losing in the Eagles game is weak reasoning.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Having said all that in defense of Taylor, my favorite player on the roster right now is still Cooley. He is no "beast." But a smart, consistent, good character guy.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Taylor had a pretty solid rookie season.

Did he make some mistakes, sure, what rookies don't?

He also created some turnovers, had some nice hits, and was an intimidating presence in the defensive backfield.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Exactly. I can't wait to see how much he's matured this season. If there is anyone who has a coaching staff to help that process, it's Washington.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

its amazing how nobody has mentioned the game against the vikings. didn't anyone see when the vikings had the ball on our 1 yard line and sean taylor stuffed michael bennett up the middle when he tried to run it in. or his interceptions that helped against the 49ers and clinched the game against the bears. its wondrous how everyone attacks his bad plays, but never mentions his good ones.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

I think it was Moe Williams that he stopped and that's an even BIGGER feat. Moe is a beast himself.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Good call Mooby. He was great in that game.

Either way, SC still has a point. Taylor still needs improve on wrapping up in many tackles. We don't want his flying past the guy with the ball the way Lavar has over the years. Fundamentals are important.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

It might just be me, but I always thought he looked like he wrapped up for most of his tackles. Of course he wasn't perfect, but I thought more often than not he was fundamentally sound in his tackling.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Balmerskinsfan:

Polamalu (sp?) was a key contributor on a defense that took a team to a 15-1 record in his 2nd season after he didn't start for most of the first season. He got some All-Pro votes as I recall, too.

So, are you calling for ST to do the same thing? That would be nice. But it ain't gonna happen... LIke I said, if you love him as a "beast" then you will have to love his beastly behaviors. And you'll have to find ways to convince yourself that his "mental errors" aren't so debilitating because you love to see him make a really big hit.

Frankly, I prefer results. You can be a huge hitter AND play smart and winning football. See Ronnie Lott, Brian Dawkins, Jack Tatum, NIght Train Lane, Lem Barney, Ken Houston and a hundred or so of the really good linebackers. Or you can play like Sean Taylor...[/QUOTE]
Curmudgeon- Taylor was, I repeat, a ROOKIE. I recall Fred Smoot making some really stupid plays in his early years- remember when all he did was talk smack and get burned on late throws? Give Taylor some time before you start beating on him. Besides, if you really want to smear a Skins DB, there's always Ade Jimoh to kick around.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

We have a very active, and proud Ade Jimoh fan club. Please refrain from commenting negatively on our soon to be hero. Thanks.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Every time Ade Jimoh is in a game, you can count on a long completion to the guy he's guarding. Jimoh is a B-U-M bum.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Wow, this story sure brought everybody out of the wood work! It is disappointing not to see both these guys at the voluntary workouts....we do need to keep in perspective that there might be more to the story than what we are hearing from the media.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Last year when I said that Sean Taylor was a meathead and it looked like he would be a "problem child", everyone here got their shorts in a knot because he was a "beast". Well, he cost the Skins a few games last year and was responsible for winning exactly none of them. Now he is showing what a team leader he is going to be. And now people here are upset with him. What took you all so long?

Folks, this is Sean Taylor. This is what he is and what he is going to be for the duration of his career in the NFL. The single best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If you love him as a "beast" then you have to take him for the team leader that he is - which is to say he ain't much of one!

He - and Moss - have Drew Rosenhaus as their agent. People around here really don't like the Poston brothers but I suggest that all of you start keeping track of Rosenhaus because this guy is far more trouble than the Postons ever were or ever will be.

There used to be an agent for NFL players who was famous for having his clients hold out - - with or without contracts. He became such a pain in the ass that lots of teams would not deal with him or any players he represented. He had to leave the business because none of his clients could get any deals done. Rosenhaus looks to me like the person best suited to take over that role for tomorrow.

And just so everyone here gets it right, you spell it:


M E A T H E A D[/QUOTE]

Rosenhaus and Snyder have a good relationship (since Snyder pays out big bucks for Rosenhaus' clients). I don't think Rosenhaus wants to ruin that relationship (the 'Skins have blackballed the Postons - see Kellen Winslow).

Taylor isn't a team leader and probably doens't want to be. That doesn't mean he isn't a beast. And what games did Taylor lose for us?

I don't think your assessment of Taylor is even in the ballpark - the guy is a baller and he will win plenty of games for us.