Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=Chico23231;1096169]Don't like it one bit, kids gotta play. I guess gruden wants to get rg3 pissed and maybe motivated[/quote]

If this is what has to be done to get RG motivated then he's not worth the effort.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=Chico23231;1096169]Don't like it one bit, kids gotta play. I guess gruden wants to get rg3 pissed and maybe motivated[/quote]

I was under the impression that Gruden didn't feel Robert was ready to play when he came back and then all of a sudden poof Robert was playing. Then Gruden sticks with him while he struggles to play at a basic level. My guess is that Gruden knows what he has at this juncture with all three QBs and is done evaluating what Robert can bring to the table and is ready to start evaluating Colt. If Gruden's system allows for greater continuity within the offense with someone else under center I am all for it.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=OnceWeWereKings;1096160]I like when my team wins. And I like when the players put in are the ones that give us the greatest chance of doing such. Even if they aren't a long term solution. I don't ever want to tank to get a better pick. Even if we are 2-13. I still want the win on Sunday. Right now colt 45 seems to give us the best chance. I am a fan of players such as griff, but I'm a much larger fan of the redskins as a team than any individual player.[/quote]

Well said. You speak for me, as well, on this point.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1096175]You are an evil-minded person and you will probably languish in Hell for even thinking that. On the other hand, that sounds about right for the living Hell that is being a Redskins fan.[/quote]

Hell might be a nice respite for a Skins fan.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1096177]I was under the impression that Gruden didn't feel Robert was ready to play when he came back and then all of a sudden poof Robert was playing. Then Gruden sticks with him while he struggles to play at a basic level. My guess is that Gruden knows what he has at this juncture with all three QBs and is done evaluating what Robert can bring to the table and is ready to start evaluating Colt. If Gruden's system allows for greater continuity within the offense with someone else under center I am all for it.[/quote]

Too early to pull him IMO. Also think possibly gruden is trying to shield him from a utter embarrassment of luck vs rg3 this weekend.

Rg3 is bottomed out, gonna get interesting.

One thing is gruden must be popular in the lockerroom because he is not afraid to put the team ahead of the player. He earning some respect in the lockerroom. Now he just needs to cut the dry snitching in the offseason.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

Not a surprise. Jsteelze pretty much stated this shortly after ther 49ers game.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

Question, who is saying rg3 is benched and colt is the starter from the organization?

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;1096161]I realize I'm the only person maybe, in the world, to say this... I think Cousins should be going in at this point.

It makes no sense, to me, to put McCoy in there now. I wanted him to stay in after the Dallas game, and I honestly believe we'd be 6-5 right now if he'd played the last 3 weeks...

But, again, here is where I'm on Crazy Island by myself...

I think that Cousins will be the one to be a [I]Great[/I] quarterback for someone... and I hope it's us. Yes, he threw interceptions... and yes, once he did, he looked like a guy who freaked out that he made a mistake and got frantic and made other mistakes... but THAT.. to ME... looks like what young, talented quarterback looks like.

Remember that Cousins has started a total of 9 games in the NFL! I realize that a 3 INT game and a 4 INT game stand out... but in his 4 other games this season... 7 TD's to 2 INT's. Eli Manning just threw 5 in a game 2 weeks ago...

Against 2 of the absolute best defenses in the NFL that he had to face back-to-back weeks (Seattle & Arizona), he averaged more than 300 yards passing, 4 TD's to the 3 picks against 'zona.

He's the one that needs to finish being evaluated and not written off. Check these numbers of great QB's early in their career:

Elway - 25 TDs - 29 INTs in first 2 seasons
P. Manning - 100... yes 100 INTs in his first 5 seasons (that's 20 per season)
Farve - 19 TDs - 24 INTs in his SECOND FULL season
E. Manning - 17, 18, and 20 INTs first 3 full seasons (and just last year tossed 18 TDs to 27 INTs!)

My point is... If you have watched our games this year you had to see that Cousins fit balls into teeny tiny windows that McCoy and Griffin NEVER would. He MOVED this offense... period. The WRs got the ball! ... The tight ends got the ball...

And... check this out...
He threw 10 TDs in 5 games, which out him on pace for a 30+ TD season. Remember the last 'Skins QB to do that? Me either. It was done ONCE (31)...by Sonny Jorgensen.. in 1967.

To me, honestly... he looked exactly like a guy who knew this was his one shot in life to be an NFL starting QB (here or elsewhere) and once he made a mistake, he would get frantic to make up for it, and make another... People forget how much internal pressure must have been on this guy every week. He KNEW this was his one shot because he wasn't a first rounder. These other elite QBs struggled in their first 9 starts... but could relax, play through the dumb throws... but their talent was evident... to me... Cousins arm-talent is evident.

I truly think he could be a Farve or Eli Manning-type guy, who when he's on... with the weapons we have on offense.. could possibly get hot every year or so and win us a big one... while, in other years, make you want to throw a brick through your TV.

But either way, right now... HE'S the one that needs another shot... McCoy is not the future and we have to figure out who is...[/quote]

Spot on. My only concern with KC is when he throws those picks, he folds. He doesn't have amnesia like the great QB's do. But I'd like to see him have another full off season and work on this. He's hit more big plays and played better than the other two.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[URL="https://twitter.com/NickSundberg/status/537462019709231104"]Nick Sundberg's not happy[/URL]

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

So if this is the end for rg3, if he was this far behind in basic qb concepts on how to play the position"........someone please tell me what in the flying fuck were shanny and Kyle doing with rg3? They weren't teaching him the position? Whole lotta blame to go around

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;1096161]stuff[/quote]

I agree. I think Kirks flaws are fixable.
He is just predicting too much where players are going to be. He has a great grasp of the field but needs to see it more and let a play develop a little more.

Oddly enough, griff is the opposite, he is waiting too long for guys to get open.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1096188]So if this is the end for rg3, if he was this far behind in basic qb concepts on how to play the position"........someone please tell me what in the flying fuck were shanny and Kyle doing with rg3? They weren't teaching him the position? Whole lotta blame to go around[/QUOTE]


Stripped down passing attack, simple one read stuff off play action. The read option had every D totally off guard that year. Kinda brilliant really, they took a QB who has not at all ready for a pro offense and made him rookie of the year.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=Mattyk;1096192]Stripped down passing attack, simple one read stuff off play action. The read option had every D totally off guard that year. Kinda brilliant really, they took a QB who has not at all ready for a pro offense and made him rookie of the year.[/quote]

Yeah but mortgaged the future with the draft picks, didn't protect his health and didn't do their due dillegence with effectively coaching the qb position. Brilliant. Eff them

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

The Cult of Kirk has returned. Unbelievable. Collectively, our memories are short and our standards are low.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

Just watch, we'll trade Griff to NE for a.....conditional pick and Belichick will kick the shit out of us for the next 10 years with him

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=Chico23231;1096169]Don't like it one bit, kids gotta play. I guess gruden wants to get rg3 pissed and maybe motivated[/quote]I don't think that it has anything to do with motivation. Gruden is done with Griffin. The very public humbling is just a much needed side effect. The offseason narrative is that Griffin is a hard worker, but is he working on the right things? I sense that he works hard in the gym, but he doesn't put in nearly enough work in the classroom to master the WCO. He would be best served for now as a 3rd string, long term project, who has to look in the mirror, and realize that his shortcomings in the mental side of quarterbacking are holding him back.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;1096161]I realize I'm the only person maybe, in the world, to say this... I think Cousins should be going in at this point.

It makes no sense, to me, to put McCoy in there now. I wanted him to stay in after the Dallas game, and I honestly believe we'd be 6-5 right now if he'd played the last 3 weeks...

But, again, here is where I'm on Crazy Island by myself...

I think that Cousins will be the one to be a [I]Great[/I] quarterback for someone... and I hope it's us. Yes, he threw interceptions... and yes, once he did, he looked like a guy who freaked out that he made a mistake and got frantic and made other mistakes... but THAT.. to ME... looks like what young, talented quarterback looks like.

Remember that Cousins has started a total of 9 games in the NFL! I realize that a 3 INT game and a 4 INT game stand out... but in his 4 other games this season... 7 TD's to 2 INT's. Eli Manning just threw 5 in a game 2 weeks ago...

Against 2 of the absolute best defenses in the NFL that he had to face back-to-back weeks (Seattle & Arizona), he averaged more than 300 yards passing, 4 TD's to the 3 picks against 'zona.

He's the one that needs to finish being evaluated and not written off. Check these numbers of great QB's early in their career:

Elway - 25 TDs - 29 INTs in first 2 seasons
P. Manning - 100... yes 100 INTs in his first 5 seasons (that's 20 per season)
Farve - 19 TDs - 24 INTs in his SECOND FULL season
E. Manning - 17, 18, and 20 INTs first 3 full seasons (and just last year tossed 18 TDs to 27 INTs!)

My point is... If you have watched our games this year you had to see that Cousins fit balls into teeny tiny windows that McCoy and Griffin NEVER would. He MOVED this offense... period. The WRs got the ball! ... The tight ends got the ball...

And... check this out...
He threw 10 TDs in 5 games, which out him on pace for a 30+ TD season. Remember the last 'Skins QB to do that? Me either. It was done ONCE (31)...by Sonny Jorgensen.. in 1967.

To me, honestly... he looked exactly like a guy who knew this was his one shot in life to be an NFL starting QB (here or elsewhere) and once he made a mistake, he would get frantic to make up for it, and make another... People forget how much internal pressure must have been on this guy every week. He KNEW this was his one shot because he wasn't a first rounder. These other elite QBs struggled in their first 9 starts... but could relax, play through the dumb throws... but their talent was evident... to me... Cousins arm-talent is evident.

I truly think he could be a Farve or Eli Manning-type guy, who when he's on... with the weapons we have on offense.. could possibly get hot every year or so and win us a big one... while, in other years, make you want to throw a brick through your TV.

But either way, right now... HE'S the one that needs another shot... McCoy is not the future and we have to figure out who is...[/quote]

Agree completely, great post. I loved Cousins, and hated his INTs. I think it's all mental / confidence, and getting rid of Griffin is part of giving Cousins confidence - no one else is on the bench. Our offense was potent with Cousins, and even after 1-2 INTs we were still in most games. He just took us out of it when he self-imploded. Whatever happens this year, I suspect he wins the job next year & we get to see a full season w Cousins.


AND - he can handle himself at a press conference.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

So what now, trade or cut him? No way in hell I'd let him walk, I still believe he can sit and learn. His cap number is nothing

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=Chico23231;1096188]So if this is the end for rg3, if he was this far behind in basic qb concepts on how to play the position"........someone please tell me what in the flying fuck were shanny and Kyle doing with rg3? They weren't teaching him the position? Whole lotta blame to go around[/quote]

Kyle knew he couldn't do the dropback game and really never asked a lot of Griffin in the passing game. They were in win now mode and designed an offense for him. The blame lies in the organization for mortgaging the future for a project. That's obviously not on the coaches. True franchise QB's shouldn't need to be coached up on the basics/fundamentals.

Any of you remember Shuler? It's the same thing. Had he been able to run Kyle's offense of 2012, he probably has a couple of good years. But he had no drop back game compared to Gus.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=Lotus;1096195]The Cult of Kirk has returned. Unbelievable. Collectively, our memories are short and our standards are low.[/quote]

LOL, it's official. Our standard are low, I admit it! That's what happens when your RB has more rushing yards than your QB has passing yards.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

I'm gonna make a hugely strange unjustifiable comparison, and then try to make a case for it.

RG3 is suffering from Jerry Jones disease, and that's not good for us.

Jerry Jones came in, won his SB's with Jimmy Johnson early, and from that came to believe he knows best. The only time he humbled himself was when he needed to spark interest for the stadium.

Griffin came in lit it on fire, and who can forget his utterance to Alfmo about how we hadn't had a championship, and they did it in one year. I think that takes on a new light now, and probably adds to his difficulties in adapting, when he did it "his way" before.

Can he come out of the clouds, shift focus and get going the right way, I don't know, but i'm not super hopeful.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1096200]Kyle knew he couldn't do the dropback game and really never asked a lot of Griffin in the passing game. They were in win now mode and designed an offense for him. The blame lies in the organization for mortgaging the future for a project. That's obviously not on the coaches. True franchise QB's shouldn't need to be coached up on the basics/fundamentals.

Any of you remember Shuler? It's the same thing. Had he been able to run Kyle's offense of 2012, he probably has a couple of good years. But he had no drop back game compared to Gus.[/quote]

Absolutely. It was interesting to listen to Trent Dilfer on The Sports Fix (ESPN 980) yesterday. He said Kyle was the best possible coach RG could have. He thought the 2012 O was a thing of genius and had he had the buy in from the QB to develop that O further RG would be a on his way to becoming a super star. Trent thinks Kyle is one of the best out there and that is being shown with Clev this year.

Trent isnt sure yet if Gruden has the knowledge and ability to create an offense in which RG can succeed.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

Ugh...Sally Jenkins was right. See the signature below.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=Chico23231;1096199]So what now, trade or cut him? No way in hell I'd let him walk, I still believe he can sit and learn. His cap number is nothing[/quote]

I think there are teams that would be willing to trade for him. FO people will remember 2012 and think the risk is worth the reward. I do think you are right that sitting him spells the end of his tenure here whether it is after the 4th season or not I cannot speculate. In regards to Shanahan, I think that he was over confident in his ability to fix Robert's flaws. He tried the same thing with Jake Plummer in Denver and they never quite achieved the expectations of the team there.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

I don't get it...why are they benching him give that the season is over and he needs to get better? Shouldn't the remaining games be used to help his game.

I am guessing Snyder and co don't want those concessions to go unpurchased.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1096202]I'm gonna make a hugely strange unjustifiable comparison, and then try to make a case for it.

RG3 is suffering from Jerry Jones disease, and that's not good for us.

Jerry Jones came in, won his SB's with Jimmy Johnson early, and from that came to believe he knows best. The only time he humbled himself was when he needed to spark interest for the stadium.

Griffin came in lit it on fire, and who can forget his utterance to Alfmo about how we hadn't had a championship, and they did it in one year. I think that takes on a new light now, and probably adds to his difficulties in adapting, when he did it "his way" before.

Can he come out of the clouds, shift focus and get going the right way, I don't know, but i'm not super hopeful.[/quote]

I think your comparison is apt. I also think Griff will rise to the occasion.

Sadly, I think that he will get his poop together while on another roster.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=saden1;1096207]I don't get it...why are they benching him give that the season is over and he needs to get better? Shouldn't the remaining games be used to help his game.

I am guessing Snyder and co don't want those concessions to go unpurchased.[/quote]

Nothing to do with Snyder other than Gruden got him to buy in to the decision. It is all about Gruden doing what is best to win every game. Teams win championships not players.

I understand letting a guy play if you are losing and he is doing well. (Mainning in his rookie year). This was not the case. We need to build a team vice fantasy players.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

Nevermind

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=Chico23231;1096194]Yeah but mortgaged the future with the draft picks, didn't protect his health and didn't do their due dillegence with effectively coaching the qb position. Brilliant. Eff them[/quote]


Fuck it, I'm going to do it.







[B][SIZE="7"]I TOLD YOU ALL SO!!![/SIZE][/B]


This isn't related just to Robert either because I wouldn't mortgage the future on any unsure thing.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=saden1;1096207]I don't get it...why are they benching him give that the season is over and he needs to get better? Shouldn't the remaining games be used to help his game.

I am guessing Snyder and co don't want those concessions to go unpurchased.[/quote]

This is the NFL not a developmental league.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=Bucket;1096091]It's a good call.

You are losing the locker room and the confidence of the team by keeping RG3 in there right now. He's not gaining anything because he's overwhelmed.

Just look at the Haill22.com footage from the previous games.

Missing basic concept routes. He can't continue to stall the offense.

There is 52 players on this team that deserve to win and you have to play the BEST 52 players. RG3 was the best QB we had in 2012.. He's not currently the best QB. He could be! He's not right now.

[url=http://hail22.com/]Hail 22 - Breaking down All-22 film of the Washington Redskins[/url][/quote]

52 guys who put their bodies on the line every week and have their futures and paychecks at stake. Griffin has been holding the entire team back and it's not just 4 games this year. Coaches last year came to the same conclusion and Gruden has been with RG3 through OTAs, mini-camps, pre-season and the regular season. They see him up close every day and realize he'll never "get it". Gruden's obligation is to the team, nothing else.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

I think this needed to happen. I think Gruden knew all along that Griffin was just not where he needed to be. I just think Gruden put Griffin in these last few games to show Allen and Snyder that Griffin is not the franchise quarterback they were hoping he was.

So, hopefully Gruden has Snyder and Allen's attention, and hopefully the front office is willing to let Gruden do what he needs to do to turn this team around. This team won't get turned around until some changes in the front office take place, however.

I trust Gruden. I like RGIII, but my eyes don't lie to me. I know what I've seen out on the field, and it's been pretty horrible. The offensive line doesn't help, but Griffin has been horrible.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=irish;1096204]Absolutely. It was interesting to listen to Trent Dilfer on The Sports Fix (ESPN 980) yesterday. He said Kyle was the best possible coach RG could have. He thought the 2012 O was a thing of genius and had he had the buy in from the QB to develop that O further RG would be a on his way to becoming a super star. Trent thinks Kyle is one of the best out there and that is being shown with Clev this year.

Trent isnt sure yet if Gruden has the knowledge and ability to create an offense in which RG can succeed.[/quote]

And Kyle is no longer here, because RG3 ran him and his father out of town. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[QUOTE=Lotus;1096195]The Cult of Kirk has returned. Unbelievable. Collectively, our memories are short and our standards are low.[/QUOTE]


He was on pace to lead the league in picks... no idea how quickly people forget.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1096214]Fuck it, I'm going to do it.







[B][SIZE="7"]I TOLD YOU ALL SO!!![/SIZE][/B]


This isn't related just to Robert either because I wouldn't mortgage the future on any unsure thing.[/quote]

We didnt make the pick, Mike ShanaSnyder did.
So go yell at them.....

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=44Deezel;1096218]52 guys who put their bodies on the line every week and have their futures and paychecks at stake. Griffin has been holding the entire team back and it's not just 4 games this year. Coaches last year came to the same conclusion and Gruden has been with RG3 through OTAs, mini-camps, pre-season and the regular season. They see him up close every day and realize he'll never "get it". Gruden's obligation is to the team, nothing else.[/quote]

Why is this so difficult for the hard core Griffin fans to understand? Two years in a row he's been benched and it's the coaches fault?

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1096194]Yeah but mortgaged the future with the draft picks, didn't protect his health and didn't do their due dillegence with effectively coaching the qb position. Brilliant. Eff them[/QUOTE]


That's on Snyder and Allen regarding the picks.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

You KNOW if he goes somewhere else, he'll be an absolute monster.

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

Its funny that people can say Cousins deserves the shot because other QBs threw picks too. Yet, Colt cannot have that same comparison? Why because hes 3 years older? He is 28. Not 38.

Hes been through the shit at Cleveland and had his bumps. I just think people are brushing him aside and forgetting hes 2-0.

Its about winning. What happens if Colt wins 4 straight? Maybe im playing devil advocate here

Re: McCoy to Start Against Indy
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1096232]You KNOW if he goes somewhere else, he'll be an absolute monster.[/quote]

Maybe, maybe not. He could be the next Kordell Stewart or Akili Smith.