Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=rotten1980;1097091]reasons why key players have obviously regressed that don't fall on the offensive hc, let's hear em??[/quote]

Injury. Trent Williams is hurt. Has been hurt. Continues to play hurt.

He was limping today. There were a couple of plays where everyone thought he was coming out of the game.

The espn 980 broadcast with Larry, Chris and Sonny mentioned this a couple of times as well as his limping after plays.

At 7:30 in the 3rd, the fat, slow, injured guy that hasn't bought in was chasing the fumble recovery like a banshee. He outran three guys standing next to him to try to stop the touchdown.

Pick on somebody else. He probably shouldn't be playing hurt in meaningless games but like others have said, he is an absolute baller.

SO, the pain in his swollen, gimpy knee that he doctors and rehabs through the week so he can come play left tackle for us on Sundays is a reason other than the head coach why his play has regressed.

Geez.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

I cant really blame Gruden. He needs to be accountable for some things, but it's the same staff, same players just about. Same outcome..

Something else needs to change up top, or their direction needs to be different.

I do know that McCoy got murdered today as well, and still put up over 350+ yards with 3 TD's.

Defense is banged up beyond belief right now.

I don't think Gruden deserves all the blame here.

We also have to remember that McCoy has had 12 days of reps with the first team offense. If he had more, maybe he comes out faster when we get thoe two turnovers? Who the fuck knows..

I do know that we have some good building blocks, but it only takes one to two bad blocks to have the whole thing crumbling down.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1097094]Have we really regressed though? Last year the offense was ranked 23rd in points and 9th in yards. This year we're 22nd and 11th. Mostly the same players, slightly different schemes, same results. Again heading for a top 3 pick.[/quote]

Added a truly elite WR to get the same overall results. The only way that makes sense is if other key players regress.

I guess we could just keep adding talent to Grudens offense to get better results, but isn't that what Cincy did?? Elite oline. Best WR in pro football with other weapons and a solid game manager in Dalton, but Cincy's offense still withered in big games. Plus that team had a truly elite defense that put Grudens offense in position to win games.

I just don't get it, why Gruden if not for the old boys connection like someone else said here? That connection got him a fair shot, he's done nothing with it. It's not personal, but there's quality HCs out there every year who get results.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Should be renamed the Snyder thread. Snyder hires BA, Snyder doesn't invest in scouting. Snyder created special rules for Griffin. It's like going after the dealer on the street, and constantly ignoring where the supply comes from. The players made dozens of mental mistakes today. Some of that is coaching(still his fault), but some of it is just picking better players.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Seriously???? Some of you guys are bashing Silverback?
The rest of the O line is playing like Schmuckville College Division 9 and you single out Trent????
WTF???

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1097085]You bring up a good point about coaching candidates. Maybe looking at Grudens class is helpful? Cleveland, Detroit, Houston, Tampa all got new coaches along with DC. The only team with elite talent is Detroit, but every team improved a lot record wise with Tampa an exception. Though they just kicked Grudens teeth in lol. He was the worst hire. [B]Why can't we do better?? [/B]That's really what I'm asking, every season quality HC talent is available, why do we have to end up with a loser who's totally over his head. It's zorn.2 but y'all don't want to accept it yet.[/quote]


We can't do better because we fire coaches too quickly - exactly what you're proposing.

That's the reason we had to settle for Zorn.
IMO, we have a talent issue in several key areas (o-line, CB/S). Even the great Lombardi would struggle to coach some of these guys up.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

You guys really don't see the similarities between Gruden and Zorn huh? Gruden can talk all he wants about everyone doing and getting better but exactly is he doing in that regard? That Colt McCoy play where everyone but Logan Paulsen gave up is damning and damaging to the coaching staff. This team is not prepared to play on Sundays. Not even close.

Zorn won 6 games his first season and that's a very low benchmark.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Even Gruden would have to admit that he has done a poor job. There are breakdowns across all units - just today, offsides on kickoffs, lining up illegally on offense, and busted assugnments defensively. It is a team that lacks discipline, and that is a direct reflection on the head coach.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=SouperMeister;1097119]Even Gruden would have to admit that he has done a poor job. There are breakdowns across all units - just today, offsides on kickoffs, lining up illegally on offense, and busted assugnments defensively. It is a team that lacks discipline, and that is a direct reflection on the head coach.[/quote]

Indy had the same number of penalties as we did except for more yards.

Still, you're right. Over the course of the season way too many stupid mental mistakes.

Holding calls aren't always mental because it's so freaking arbitrary (could be called on every play) and sometimes you get beat and need to keep your qb from getting nuked.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;1097119]Even Gruden would have to admit that he has done a poor job. There are breakdowns across all units - just today, offsides on kickoffs, lining up illegally on offense, and busted assugnments defensively. It is a team that lacks discipline, and that is a direct reflection on the head coach.[/QUOTE]



I think Gruden has said he has done a poor job, more than once.

And when a team lacks discipline under multiple head coaches that's a reflection on the organization.

Gruden deserves an entire season before you can even attempt to write him off. And IMO he also deserves next year.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=mlmdub130;1097130]I think Gruden has said he has done a poor job, more than once.

And when a team lacks discipline under multiple head coaches that's a reflection on the organization.

Gruden deserves an entire season before you can even attempt to write him off. And IMO he also deserves next year.[/quote]

Agree he gets the opportunity to turn things around these last games. Nothing wrong with Snyder and FO starting to make inquiries elsewhere now though, it's due diligence at this point.

It's gotta feel like Zorn all over again for Snyder though. The idiotic play calls like going for it on fourth down pinned back in our own territory, and then not even have an audible to change the play when Indys crappy defense overloaded one side. This just ain't pro level coaching, very hard to watch.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Even Marty Mornhinweg got 2 whole seasons before the Lions canned him and he's one of the worst NFL coaches of all time. You gotta give Gruden a real shot next season.

I feel like coaches, unless they go.. like 0-16, deserve at least 2 seasons to be judged thoroughly before deciding whether or not to keep or kick them.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

The opening post is an extreme overreaction. Firing Gruden after onr year is part of the readon The Skins have been perennial losers the past two decades. For better or worse lets ride it out and see what Gruden can do as head coach.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

I would disagree on how good of a coach he was. He does have the rings but he had a great qb to help him... As much as I can't stand belicheck he is a good coach. He was doing well with bledsoe before he got hurt. Gibbs,(1) & parcells were great coaches, got rings with multiple qb's. Gibbs(2) not so good, the game passed him by but I think he taught danny boy patience.



[quote=SolidSnake84;1097039]I agree but the argument was that we needed a HC who was a winner and knew what he was getting into here. Regardless of John Elway or not, Shanahan does have those super bowl rings.

That's like saying Bill Belicheck isn't crap without Tom Brady. The future may show that, who can say...[/quote]

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Any coach deserves 2 years minimum. The first year the coach will have to keep several players he really doesn't want to, and he has to see how the whole units work together.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

I'm okay with giving him another year, but he has done a lot of rookie HC mistakes on and off the field.

I would like to see a change in the FO though, I think the team has had too many miscues in putting together an offensive line. Granted that Moses, Long, and some of the younger o-linemen could star producing next year, I'd like to see the team get a solid FA o-lineman on the right side.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Long can't even beat out Chester. Moses was unable to beat out Polumbus and Compton. Not looking good so far with either draft pick.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1097142]Long can't even beat out Chester. Moses was unable to beat out Polumbus and Compton. Not looking good so far with either draft pick.[/quote]

Which brings me to the point of coaching. Are we really missing out on good o-linemen in the draft or is it a coaching problem? We are drafting o-linemen, but we can't seem to get a player good enough to replace the terrible players we have (Chester/Polumbus/Compton) or maybe we are but the coaches are not doing a good job developing these players.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1097144]Which brings me to the point of coaching. Are we really missing out on good o-linemen in the draft or is it a coaching problem? We are drafting o-linemen, but we can't seem to get a player good enough to replace the terrible players we have (Chester/Polumbus/Compton) or maybe we are but the coaches are not doing a good job developing these players.[/quote]

Too me, it's little coaching but I'm starting to believe the dipshits in the scouting department need to go. We need a new gm to come in and revamp scouting.

This is something danny boy needs to get on top of asap.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=saden1;1097116]You guys really don't see the similarities between Gruden and Zorn huh? Gruden can talk all he wants about everyone doing and getting better but exactly is he doing in that regard? That Colt McCoy play where everyone but Logan Paulsen gave up is damning and damaging to the coaching staff. This team is not prepared to play on Sundays. Not even close.

Zorn won 6 games his first season and that's a very low benchmark.[/quote]

I believe Zorn went 8-8 year one.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1097149]Too me, it's little coaching but I'm starting to believe the dipshits in the scouting department need to go. We need a new gm to come in and revamp scouting.

This is something danny boy needs to get on top of asap.[/quote]

It's so hard to judge though. You don't know if the scouts are presenting poor options, or if they are selecting people they're told to look for, or if they have good options that are getting ignored. I mean it's ultimately up to higher ups in the FO to make the calls. A scout might say "We like Moses' potential. He could be a great 5th-6th round choice" But if Allen takes him in the 3rd, that's not on the scout. That's just an example

A big problem though, that I've mentioned in the "Getting to Know the Scouting Process" thread is these scouts spend the whole season looking for what one HC wants and then at the end of the year here comes a new HC with different ideas.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1097131]Agree he gets the opportunity to turn things around these last games. Nothing wrong with Snyder and FO starting to make inquiries elsewhere now though, it's due diligence at this point.

It's gotta feel like Zorn all over again for Snyder though. The idiotic play calls like going for it on fourth down pinned back in our own territory, and then not even have an audible to change the play when Indys crappy defense overloaded one side. This just ain't pro level coaching, very hard to watch.[/quote]

wow I was working caught last half of 4th quarter. If this happened Gruden is desperate like I thought.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1097132]Even Marty Mornhinweg got 2 whole seasons before the Lions canned him and he's one of the worst NFL coaches of all time. You gotta give Gruden a real shot next season.

I feel like coaches, unless they go.. like 0-16, deserve at least 2 seasons to be judged thoroughly before deciding whether or not to keep or kick them.[/quote]

If he holds the fort, stop the bleeding, anything. Beat Dallas and the Giants then he deserves another year, but if he keeps making desperate moves then he has to go. But to be fair he was set up to fail. He had to keep Haz and Mc Vay.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1097153]wow I was working caught last half of 4th quarter. If this happened Gruden is desperate like I thought.[/quote]

That's not quite what happened

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1097155]That's not quite what happened[/quote]

???????????

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Jay Gruden grade for Colts game = F+. Colt threw for 350 yards, he had a good fantasy game so Gruden gets a plus on that F.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

No one and done, your a clown for starting this thread.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

I definitely think the Redskins should have punted on fourth down instead of going for it. They were down by two scores with plenty of time left and an offense that was starting to heat up. Gruden really screwed the pooch there. However, I've see Bilicheck make the same call before (and I have also seen him fail), so I can't fault Gruden too much. I understand that Gruden is merely evaluating the team. I understand the team has no shot at making the playoffs. But, I also understand there is a time where a call is gutsy and where it is just stupid. I have to say, it was a stupid call.

Still, though, Gruden deserves another chance with an upgraded roster. Getting rid of him after one season is not going to do your franchise any favors in my opinion. The changes, some type of change anyway, needs to happen on the front office level.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1097152]It's so hard to judge though. You don't know if the scouts are presenting poor options, or if they are selecting people they're told to look for, or if they have good options that are getting ignored. I mean it's ultimately up to higher ups in the FO to make the calls. A scout might say "We like Moses' potential. He could be a great 5th-6th round choice" But if Allen takes him in the 3rd, that's not on the scout. That's just an example

A big problem though, that I've mentioned in the "Getting to Know the Scouting Process" thread is these scouts spend the whole season looking for what one HC wants and then at the end of the year here comes a new HC with different ideas.[/quote]

I hear ya. But if we are reaching on your example like that...then thats a major problem where the GM and scouts are not on the same page.

Its time for Bruce to leave the personel game. He needs to check out and go to team Pres. Time to bring in a guy who not afraid to tell Snyder and his Lacky Posse how to run an organization

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1097179]I hear ya. But if we are reaching on your example like that...then thats a major problem where the GM and scouts are not on the same page.

Its time for Bruce to leave the personel game. He needs to check out and go to team Pres. [B]Time to bring in a guy who not afraid to tell Snyder and his Lacky Posse how to run an organization[/B][/quote]

That is great and all but Synder would have to hire this guy. Don't know if he wants someone like that around.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1097179]I hear ya. But if we are reaching on your example like that...then thats a major problem where the GM and scouts are not on the same page.

Its time for Bruce to leave the personel game. He needs to check out and go to team Pres. Time to bring in a guy who not afraid to tell Snyder and his Lacky Posse how to run an organization[/quote]

We did that with Shanahan and it didn't work.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1097154]If he holds the fort, stop the bleeding, anything. [B]Beat Dallas and the Giants then he deserves another year[/B], but if he keeps making desperate moves then he has to go. But to be fair he was set up to fail. He had to keep Haz and Mc Vay.[/quote]

Is this the criteria we're going off of for dismantling an entire coaching staff?

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1097058]I dont get the Gruden hate already.
Hes not even done with his first season.
WTF....I bet you guys walk out of a movie after the first 15 minutes.
Grudens beginning is very similar to Joe Gibbs......[/quote]

Since when is 3-9 equal to 8-8?

Face it, I've been saying it for a while, but the rest of you guys are just starting to realize it, Gruden is a garbage coach, he is the main problem with this team right now

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=mooby;1097184]Is this the criteria we're going off of for dismantling an entire coaching staff?[/quote]

Jepp. If you beat those two and go 4-12 for 20 years, your job is save - because you´ve beaten those two.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=mredskins;1097180]That is great and all but [B]Snyder[/B] would have to hire this guy. Don't know if he wants someone like that around.[/quote]

Say the magic word and win the debate.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1097179]I hear ya. But if we are reaching on your example like that...then thats a major problem where the GM and scouts are not on the same page.

Its time for Bruce to leave the personel game. He needs to check out and go to team Pres. Time to bring in a guy who not afraid to tell Snyder and his Lacky Posse how to run an organization[/quote]

I honestly think it's more about the constant turnover up top that makes it harder for scouts to do their job

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

What is AJ Smith's role? He's got a successful past of building a team. Does he have a say in all of this?

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Before even thinking of replacing Gruden I would hope that higher management will wait to see if the team will play hard for him the rest of the way. To me, that's a key factor in allowing him to continue as HC.

As for the ability of the players, some of that can be addressed with personnel changes in the offseason but right now Gruden needs to get a solid team effort out of the current players the rest of the way.

If he does, I would hope that he will have earned another season as HC. If he doesn't, it wouldn't bother me in the least if he were to be fired.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1097193]What is AJ Smith's role? He's got a successful past of building a team. Does he have a say in all of this?[/quote]

Think he's relatively heavily involved in the draft process and "internal evaluations" whatever that means

As for Jay Gruden, I don't have the stats to back it up but I think that rookie coaches who struggle early on but turn it around usually do it for the next team they coach

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1097189]I honestly think it's more about the constant turnover up top that makes it harder for scouts to do their job[/quote]

Well I think the combo up top isnt working at all.

Who was responsible for Haslett staying? Thats a person thats needs to go