Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1109108]I'm 90% with you on the former, 30% on the latter[/QUOTE]
U hear anything smoot? Idk I just got a feeling that Jay wants someone else. Idk who we trade griffin to though? Maybe houston or Cleveland? I'd say he's worth a 3rd rounder still.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

Info for thought on whether the Titans will draft a QB.

[url=http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/nfl/titans/2014/12/12/tennessee-titans-zach-mettenberger-nfl-analysts-weigh/20319089/]Zach Mettenberger the answer? NFL analysts weigh in[/url]

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

Griffin has no trade value at this point. Who's going to want to deal with the drama and all his on the field issues? I would disagree with moving him unless we're blown away with something.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

Just qb again fellas? Id be the one in the conference room totally against it.

Defense. Safety. Athletic. Ball hawk.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=Skins4L;1109152]Just qb again fellas? Id be the one in the conference room totally against it.

Defense. Safety. Athletic. Ball hawk.[/quote]

It's not about just qb. It's all about who you're talking about at qb, on Defense, at Safety - who's Athletic and a Ball hawk. You can't just talk about the description of the player or a worse a unit (like Defense).

Yes, Safety is a need. But so is quarterback. Which player at #5 overall would fit the description of what you want at safety. Collins? and how sure are you?

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1109108]I'm 90% with you on the former, 30% on the latter[/quote]

SS this makes sense, but who is the replacement qb(s)? We looking draft or player on a roster?

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

At quarterback, more than any other position, it's all about projection - meaning you can't be sure of anything when you draft one or even pick one up in free agency. So you'll have to keep trying until you get one when you think you have a good opportunity.

On all of the playoff teams, there's a quarterback that gives you a good chance to win. I don't think the Redskins have one right now.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

Ken Whisenhunt's QB's in Arizona and Tennessee:

Matt Leinart (inherited from previous regime)
Kurt Warner
Derek Anderson
Max Hall
Kevin Kolb
Charlie Whitehurst
Zach Mettenburger
Jake Locker (inherited from previous regime)

All are pocket guys, not spread-and-run like Mariota. Certainly over the years Whiz would have picked up a spread type QB some time if he liked them.

IMO Tennessee does not want Mariota.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

Dream scenario Marriotta falls to five and Cleveland gives us #12 and #19. They drafted Johnny last year so...

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

Apparently mariota's pro day went like crap

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=Chico23231;1109172]SS this makes sense, but who is the replacement qb(s)? We looking draft or player on a roster?[/quote]

I'm working on confirming some things. May take a little while

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=Chico23231;1109185]Apparently mariota's pro day went like crap[/quote]

So did Teddy Bridgewater's. Look how that turned out.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

I just can't see the Titans passing up on him. There's no way they're banking on Mettenburger. It's all about hype and PSL sales. Mariota will deliver on those two. Considering how close Russell Wilson was to winning back to back Superbowl's you can win with a read option QB in the NFL. So maybe Wisenhunt adapts his preferences because he's never had good QB play from anyone but Kurt Warner as a head coach. So I definitely see him rolling the dice on Mariota.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1109171]It's not about just qb. It's all about who you're talking about at qb, on Defense, at Safety - who's Athletic and a Ball hawk. You can't just talk about the description of the player or a worse a unit (like Defense).

Yes, Safety is a need. But so is quarterback. Which player at #5 overall would fit the description of what you want at safety. Collins? and how sure are you?[/quote]

yea. Landon Collins, Ereck Flowers. lets trade down get both.
the final year on Griffins contract. i say we ride it out.
worst case scenario we suck again. get a top pick next year take a Q.
makes so much sense to wait. i hate mariotas footwork btw too.. so heavy sloe footed dropping back and with our OL. gotta wait i think imo.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

Are people STILL talking as if Chip is going to trade up for Mariota and use Bradford as a chip? He'd been better off using Foles a bargaining tool. Bradford is the Eagles starting QB and that's about as open shut as it's going to get.


This whole "Skins would pick Mariota at 5" is a huge smoke screen. No way is Mariota the type of QB that Jay would be looking for. If he wanted a QB that played spread type offense, he's got one of those on the bench. Hell, Robert still has a higher ceiling than Mariota as well.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1109307][B]Are people STILL talking as if Chip is going to trade up for Mariota and use Bradford as a chip? He'd been better off using Foles a bargaining tool. [/B]Bradford is the Eagles starting QB and that's about as open shut as it's going to get.


This whole "Skins would pick Mariota at 5" is a huge smoke screen. No way is Mariota the type of QB that Jay would be looking for. If he wanted a QB that played spread type offense, he's got one of those on the bench. Hell, Robert still has a higher ceiling than Mariota as well.[/quote]

Not necessarily.

A) People talk about Bradford's contract as an obstacle. It's not. It benefits both Bradford and the team to renegotiate a long-term deal. That $13 mil. number is a red herring.

B) Many folks think that Bradford, when healthy, is better than Foles and way better than Mariota.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

Question:

The rumor that we would take Mariota makes no sense, he has the same types of problems that Robert does (and I think Robert still has more upside if he can stay healthy and get his head on straight).

BUT...

If Tampa takes Mariota and Winston falls to 5 (unlikely, I know), wouldn't we have to take him and take what we could get for Robert and/or Kirk?

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

I can't see the Eagles trading up that far. They'd have to give up a ton. If Chip wants to hitch his wagon to a gimpy, pedestrian even when healthy QB, I'm 100% for it.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=Mattyk;1109380]I can't see the Eagles trading up that far. They'd have to give up a ton. If Chip wants to hitch his wagon to a gimpy, pedestrian even when healthy QB, I'm 100% for it.[/quote]

Kelly claims he was offered a first round pick for Bradford. Depending on how high the pick would be, he might be able to trade Bradford and move up to get Mariota.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

We do not have a starting QB. Neither the draft nor FA realistically can fix this. Thus IMO a trade benefits us.

Personally I wouldn't mind if we snaked Tennessee and traded for Bradford ourselves.

Give to Philly:
#5 pick - let them have the good but not great Mariota

Get:
* #20 pick - use on S Landon Collins, DE Alvin Dupree, or T La'el Collins
* another pick or player
* Bradford - we now have a starting-caliber QB (he's not the greatest, but starting quality)

If you do not like this plan, then please name who will start at QB for us next year.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1109400]Kelly claims he was offered a first round pick for Bradford. Depending on how high the pick would be, he might be able to trade Bradford and move up to get Mariota.[/quote]

Likely a lower first if what he's saying is true. Still a long way to go from 20 to the top 5. It would come with a big price.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=Lotus;1109406]We do not have a starting QB. Neither the draft nor FA realistically can fix this. Thus IMO a trade benefits us.

Personally I wouldn't mind if we snaked Tennessee and traded for Bradford ourselves.

Give to Philly:
#5 pick - let them have the good but not great Mariota

Get:
* #20 pick - use on S Landon Collins, DE Alvin Dupree, or T La'el Collins
* another pick or player
* Bradford - we now have a starting-caliber QB (he's not the greatest, but starting quality)

If you do not like this plan, then please name who will start at QB for us next year.[/quote]

Bradford will probably suffer a season-ending knee injury while sleeping in his recliner chair.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1109414]Bradford will probably suffer a season-ending knee injury while sleeping in his recliner chair.[/quote]

LOL. That's the risk with him of course. But the better starting QB option is....?

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1109068]The O-line needs improvement. But KC only took 7 or 8 sacks. Griffin was sacked over 30 times. If KC can cut down on the terrible INT's he's more than ok with this line.[/quote]

Thank you.

When the play calls for a three step drop, the offensive line should be able to set up their protection for a three step drop, rather than trying to guess where RG3 is going to hunker down and take an incredibly awkward sack.

We have a mediocre offensive line that could use improvement on the right side. They are only terrible when RG3 is taking the snaps.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/11/19/chris-cooley-rgiii-was-so-bad-i-cant-assess-the-rest-of-the-redskins-offense/]Chris Cooley: RGIII was so bad, I can’t assess the rest of the Redskins’ offense - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1109009]If Mariota is there - I believe the Redskins should and will take him. Consensus from draft scouting experts is Mariota is a top 10 player on their big boards.[/quote]

Why would you take another QB who's an exact clone of RGIII and shares his same flaws? (coming from spread offense) Jay wants no part of it, that much is pretty evident. When are people going to learn you don't draft spread offense QBs unless your plan is to sit them for a good while as they learn? Did anybody listen to Mike Shanahan's interview when he discussed how Robert wasn't ready for a conventional offense even after year 1?? These guys are projects in the biggest form.


[quote=Skins4L;1109037]
[B]let rg get one year where he feels like his job isnt on the line[/B]. kills a players confidence. some it helps. some it just irritates and gets in theyre head and they play worse.[/quote]

:laughing-


[quote=skinsfaninok;1109086]I have a weird feeling that we r going to trade griffin on draft day and take mariota. Anyone else feel this way?[/quote]

I can see them moving Griffin on trade day, but not drafting Mariota. They'll move back if they can.

[quote=Lotus;1109365]Not necessarily.

B) Many folks think that Bradford, when healthy, is better than Foles and way better than Mariota.[/quote]


Valid point and one that's backed up by an article I read in Feb. about how teams were liking Bradford over Mariota. This goes back to my point about Chip using Bradford as a bargaining piece to move up for MM. Why would he if they valued Bradford over MM? Also, if any teams in top 5-10 valued Bradford over MM, why wouldn't they just trade that pick to the Rams for Bradford? If I"m the Titans and want a QB and think Bradford is better than MM, why not trade the #2 for him? That's provided all the other players on your board rank below Bradford as well.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1109474]Why would you take another QB who's an exact clone of RGIII and shares his same flaws? (coming from spread offense) Jay wants no part of it, that much is pretty evident. When are people going to learn you don't draft spread offense QBs unless your plan is to sit them for a good while as they learn? Did anybody listen to Mike Shanahan's interview when he discussed how Robert wasn't ready for a conventional offense even after year 1?? These guys are projects in the biggest form.




:laughing-




I can see them moving Griffin on trade day, but not drafting Mariota. They'll move back if they can.




Valid point and one that's backed up by an article I read in Feb. about how teams were liking Bradford over Mariota. This goes back to my point about Chip using Bradford as a bargaining piece to move up for MM. Why would he if they valued Bradford over MM? Also, if any teams in top 5-10 valued Bradford over MM, why wouldn't they just trade that pick to the Rams for Bradford? If I"m the Titans and want a QB and think Bradford is better than MM, why not trade the #2 for him? That's provided all the other players on your board rank below Bradford as well.[/quote]

I don't think Chippy values Bradford more than Mariota. That's why the Bradford trade, by itself, is odd.

Why didn't teams other than Philly trade with the Rams for Bradford? Who knows. Maybe the Rams demanded some sort of starting QB in trade because they don't like Mariota either. If so, neither Tennessee nor the Skins could ante up, because we don't have player trading pieces who resemble starting QB's. :(

I think it's one of those 3-way trades, just in slow motion.

BTW I think you are dead on about why we wouldn't draft Mariota, barring Bruce Allen pulling another McNabb fiasco or ownership falling in love with MM.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

Theres a chance Philly wont even look good. All this hype and really what did they upgrade.. Nothing yet. Bradford for Foles, Demarco The Fumble Machine for McCoy. And they drop Maclin.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=Lotus;1109476]I don't think Chippy values Bradford more than Mariota. That's why the Bradford trade, by itself, is odd.([/quote]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Shurmur]Pat Shurmur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

This is why I think the Eagles will be staying with Bradford and not moving up.




[quote=Skins4L;1109477]Theres a chance Philly wont even look good. All this hype and really what did they upgrade.. Nothing yet. Bradford for Foles, Demarco The Fumble Machine for McCoy. And they drop Maclin.[/quote]

They upgraded their LB core with Kiko. Murray was a sidegrade on the RB and fits better in Chips scheme. They didn't drop Maclin. They offered him a good deal of money, it's just KC offered him a stupid ass amount of money. I think Bradford for Foles is a push in terms of a trade. I wouldn't have done the 2nd rounder though.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1109480][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Shurmur]Pat Shurmur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

This is why I think the Eagles will be staying with Bradford and not moving up.






They upgraded their LB core with Kiko. Murray was a sidegrade on the RB and fits better in Chips scheme. They didn't drop Maclin. They offered him a good deal of money, it's just KC offered him a stupid ass amount of money. I think Bradford for Foles is a push in terms of a trade. I wouldn't have done the 2nd rounder though.[/QUOTE]
Great point.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

This isn't fantasy football, Eagles got a lot to prove on the field and a ton of pressure on them.

Remember this is a 10 win team he dismantled, an overrated 10 win team but still

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1109480][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Shurmur]Pat Shurmur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

This is why I think the Eagles will be staying with Bradford and not moving up.






They upgraded their LB core with Kiko. Murray was a sidegrade on the RB and fits better in Chips scheme. They didn't drop Maclin. They offered him a good deal of money, it's just KC offered him a stupid ass amount of money. I think Bradford for Foles is a push in terms of a trade. I wouldn't have done the 2nd rounder though.[/quote]

I understand the Shurmur connection and you may be right. But I still remain unconvinced. I'm pretty sure that Kelly lied about being offered a first round pick for Bradford the same day he traded. No reason to lie unless you are up to something.

Besides, as long as we are talking about connections...who recruited Mariota to Oregon? Chip Kelly!

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

Holy S...
look at a draft/trade points value chart. They would have to give up an RG3 type deal to get into the #2 spot...
Is Vinnie with the Birds?

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

All I hear is Chip Kelly will do anything to get MM because it is his guy from his system.
What I have not heard is the love Chip Kelly has for Oregon and for some of his former players. So what about floating the idea that Chip realizes he can not afford pay the steep price to move up to get MM, so why not do the next best thing, help his guy improve his Draft stock and value by talking him up. Making him relevant in the media and getting other teams wanting him more. Doing it out of love for his boy.?.?
If MM goes high (#2-#5) that would be good for MM and good for the school for recruiting.
I think Chip will consider and weigh the cost to move up to get MM and decide it is too high and not draft him.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1109474][B][I][U]Why would you take another QB who's an exact clone of RGIII and shares his same flaws? (coming from spread offense)[/U][/I][/B] Jay wants no part of it, that much is pretty evident. When are people going to learn you don't draft spread offense QBs unless your plan is to sit them for a good while as they learn? Did anybody listen to Mike Shanahan's interview when he discussed how Robert wasn't ready for a conventional offense even after year 1?? These guys are projects in the biggest form.




:laughing-




I can see them moving Griffin on trade day, but not drafting Mariota. They'll move back if they can.




Valid point and one that's backed up by an article I read in Feb. about how teams were liking Bradford over Mariota. This goes back to my point about Chip using Bradford as a bargaining piece to move up for MM. Why would he if they valued Bradford over MM? Also, if any teams in top 5-10 valued Bradford over MM, why wouldn't they just trade that pick to the Rams for Bradford? If I"m the Titans and want a QB and think Bradford is better than MM, why not trade the #2 for him? That's provided all the other players on your board rank below Bradford as well.[/quote]

Couldnt agree more,I sure as hell hope the skins dont take Mariota for the exact points you said,get somebody who can block for crying out loud

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[QUOTE=Lotus;1109492]I understand the Shurmur connection and you may be right. But I still remain unconvinced. I'm pretty sure that Kelly lied about being offered a first round pick for Bradford the same day he traded. No reason to lie unless you are up to something.

Besides, as long as we are talking about connections...who recruited Mariota to Oregon? Chip Kelly![/QUOTE]
The problem with any trade up scenario is that they also traded their 2nd next year. So IF their first is a part of any trade they would not have a pick till the 3rd round no matter which qb they keep. And CK isn't THAT dumb. Now if MM were to fall out of top 10 maybe they package Bradford and picks but I doubt it.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=Lotus;1109001]What if Chip wants to get Mariota by trading Bradford...to us?

Example:
Philly gets pick # 5

We get pick #20
Sam Bradford
Jason Kelce or Brandon Graham or Zach Ertz / their #2 pick[/quote]

As much as I'm enjoying the mental image of Chip wearing a barrel, I suspect that Philly already has a deal in place with Tenn. Bradford, pick #20, and a second round pick for pick #2.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1109503]The problem with any trade up scenario is that they also traded their 2nd next year. So IF their first is a part of any trade they would not have a pick till the 3rd round no matter which qb they keep. And CK isn't THAT dumb. Now if MM were to fall out of top 10 maybe they package Bradford and picks but I doubt it.[/quote]

A deal would not necessarily include a second round pick. Players or other picks could be exchanged.


[quote=KI Skins Fan;1109506]As much as I'm enjoying the mental image of Chip wearing a barrel, I suspect that Philly already has a deal in place with Tenn. Bradford, pick #20, and a second round pick for pick #2.[/quote]

You are probably right...but we need a starting QB and a handshake deal can be broken, so I hope.

But all hope is not lost. If you are right, IMO Chip will draft the middling Mariota and still wear a barrel when MM can't break the 8-8 barrier.

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

I don't buy the Mariota hype, an air-raid, spread, zone-read QB doesn't seem like what Jay is looking for at all.

I would buy Garrett Grayson in the 3rd round or Sean Mannion in the 4th round or Shane Carden in the 6th round or Jamiel Showers in the 7th-UDFA

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

Mariota to Chicago?
I doubt it.....

[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2421423-insider-buzz-bears-eyeing-trade-up-for-mariota-think-titans-would-take-cutler]Insider Buzz: Bears Eyeing Trade Up for Mariota, Think Titans Would Take Cutler | Bleacher Report[/url]

Re: Quarterback Hype
 

I'll say this about Mariota, I really like how humble the kid is. It's really refreshing to see a young kid that doesn't do any social media and really seems well grounded and private. I was watching him on Gruden's QB camp last night, he's just all business and doesn't crave the limelight at all. Not sure if he'll be a great player or not, but just really nice to see that from a young kid who got serious credentials.