Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1111863]Between gangs and the media, who is telling the truth? They are both liars, but at least the media isn't smashing windows and looting.[/quote]

What does one have to do with the other? Also, how do you know the gangs are lying?

Are we now holding news outlets to the same standards of gangs and rioters? I don't know about you, but I demand more from people who claim to present news.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1111881]What does one have to do with the other? Also, how do you know the gangs are lying?

Are we now holding news outlets to the same standards of gangs and rioters? I don't know about you, but I demand more from people who claim to present news.[/quote]You're the one calling out the "conservative" media, while saying gang members are "standing up for the truth". That's disgusting on your part, NCSkins.

Let's keep in mind which group engages in violence as part of being in a gang, and which group is reporting on it. Mmmm'kay? Do you think gang members will engage in extortion, intimdation, and murder, but recoil at fibs? While at least the press can be judged for what they say on public broadcasts.

Blaming the media instead of the people actually rioting, gang members or otherwise, is again disgusting on your part NCSkins. It's not just a "handful of incidents" as you posted either, or do you think some warpath members HERE are part of a "conservative media" too?

SMH

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[url=http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-freddie-gray-mosby-presser-0502-20150501-story.html]Six officers charged in death of Freddie Gray - Baltimore Sun[/url]

murder 2 and other charges against 6 BC police officers.

that cant make BCPD happy.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=over the mountain;1112291][url=http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-freddie-gray-mosby-presser-0502-20150501-story.html]Six officers charged in death of Freddie Gray - Baltimore Sun[/url]

murder 2 and other charges against 6 BC police officers.

that cant make BCPD happy.[/quote]No, but seems like the right thing to do, which presumably most of the BCPD would favor even when it hurts like now. I don't see how you sever your own spinal cord unless you can hang yourself, which wasn't the case with Grey.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[url]http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/2071493/caesar-goodson-charging-documents.pdf[/url]

^^^ the charging document for the van driver accused of 2nd degree murder which requires "malice aforethought" .... knowing and intentional disregard for human life.

if you fire a gun into a crowd of people, that is 2nd degree murder. You did not intend to kill any particular person but you knew your actions would likely result in grave bodily harm and/or death to another.

apparently this new order that all arrestees who are handcuffed have to also be secured in a transport van was given 1 week prior.

AT MOST this is negligence. im not even sure it is criminal negligence. Just pure civil negligence.

Joe, if you can comment - would governmental/discretionary immunity apply to a criminal case like this? i imagine not but ive been surprised what the courts have swept under the govt/discretionary immunity clause.
---------------------------------------------

the charging documents say that Gray surrendered after a foot chase. i thought witness accounts said he was tackled.

my theory is that Gray was tackled and that is when he suffered a partially severed cervical which would allow some function below the level of the injury. he was in a foot chase and adrenaline would cause his neck muscles and soft tissue to harden and hold the cervical spine somewhat in place. the video of him being placed in van shows a person with weak, partial loss of control of his lower extremities, non-weight-bearing legs. the guy clearly had a partial paralysis injury at that moment imo.

a few minutes later, flopping around in a van, some adrenaline wears away = fully severed c spine.

i also find odd the very last sentence of the charging document - the Md State Examiner says Mr. Gray suffered a fatal injury while Gray was unrestrained by a seat belt in the custody of a BDP wagon.

To my understanding an examiner can not say what the factual cause was. The examiner can state what they observed.

Here the charging document walks a fine line. It does not say the Examiner said the fatal injury was caused bc Gray was an unrestrained occupant. It says that the fatal injury was sustained at that time.

I know in a rape trial, the SAFE examiner can say he/she saw vaginal tearing but cannot say such tearing was a result of non-consensual intercourse and cannot say such tearing is consistent or common with non-consensual intercourse.

State Atty greatly overcharged and I think they have the mechanism of injury wrong.

the defense should be easy. They can have a zillion experts/police officers opine that prisoners constantly complain of injury where there is none and that the officers actions, while negligent and unsympathetic, was not done in disregard to human life. it was not depraved indifference. the officers did not actually know Gray had a serious injury. To them it was transport just like any other.



imo, only knowing the bits of news here and there, this will not end well for States Atty office. they dont even know for certain the cause of injury. they are speculating it had to happen in the van. as an officer, i believe they do have an affirmative duty to provide care for injured and the officers clearly did not take his situation seriously ..... but is that malice aforethought?

you have to prove the officers had the specific knowledge that (1) gray had a life threatening spinal cord injury; (2) that they knew that death was foreseeable if they put him in the van handcuffed but not seat belted; and (3) they did it anyway bc they did not care if he lived or died.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

Nice break down OTM. I think you are pretty much spot on. I will tell you, from what have heard from people who know these things, Mosby is wayyyy out of her depth. She also got rid of a lot (a lot!) of experienced prosecutors when she took office.

As for official immunity, I honestly don't know how it works in the criminal system. I would assume, if they are provided certain immunity from civil negligence, the officers could not be found guilty of any crime in which "negligence" is a fundamental element of the crime. (i.e., a finding of negligence requires finding a breach of a duty, but, under civil immunity, you are barred from asserting such a breach if official immunity is applicable. Thus, since they can never be [I]civilly[/I] liable for negligence, I don't see how they can be [I]criminally[/I] liable for negligence - but that is pure speculation on my part. I have been wondering what about that very issue since the charges were announced.)

Re: Baltimore riots
 

A little background on Mosby, the State's Attorney:

[url=http://thedailyrecord.com/2015/01/16/more-on-politics-at-the-states-attorneys-office/]More on politics at the state’s attorney’s office | Maryland Daily Record[/url]

[url=http://goodbyeandthankyoubcsao.blogspot.com/2015/01/my-open-goodbye-letter-to-states.html]Goodbye and Thank You: My Open Goodbye Letter to the State's Attorney's Office[/url]

Also, the attorney representing the Gray family in their civil suit against the City was a member of Mosby's transition team and her husband is the City Counselman who represents Mr. Gray's district where the arrest took place.

If the some of those factors were reversed, i.e. the State's Attorney was married to the President of the FOP and hand insurance defense attorneys on her transition team, I suggest that those celebrating the "Justice for Freddie Gray" indictments would have simply assumed the system was rigged.

The double standard's and the refusal of some of these people to see their own hypocrisy is both mind boggling and deeply frustrating. Many chanting for "Justice" merely seek mob vengeance. These same people, if a "not guilty" verdict is returned will assert that meant no wrong was done. Again, the demand will be for "guilt by reasonable assumption" rather than "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt."

Re: Baltimore riots
 

The thing I have not seen at any point is probable cause given for the actual arrest.

What I [I]have seen[/I] is reasonable suspicion to "stop and frisk." Based on the charging document, he surrendered to police. At which point, they had the right to ask for ID, frisk, etc. HOWEVER, once that's done, unless there is an open warrant or something else, there is no probable cause to place him under arrest as I have not heard of any crime committed. Maybe he attacked the officers during the stop and frisk - if so, and St. Attorney Office fails to include those facts, it will ultimately bite them in the ass.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

Reading through the charging docs, the arresting officers and their immediate supervisor (all white) were charged with illegal arrest/false imprisonment, misconduct, and 2nd degree assault.

The supervising officer and two other officers (both African American) who observed Gray en route (due to stops along the way) were charged with involuntary manslaughter. Presumably b/c they failed to restrain Gray on several occasions and ignored any requests for a medic.

The driver (African American) was the one charged with murder 2 - depraved heart. I am assuming b/c he checked on Gray multiple times and did not call for a medic or properly restrain Gray.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

I had a case against Mosby when she was defending car accidents for Safeco. She never returned a phone call and did below the bare minimum. A few years later she is the State's Attorney for Baltimore City? Whhhhhaaaatttttt???

That open letter is jaw dropping.

It is very hard for cities like Baltimore to recruit police officers. Now, who would want to join if Marilyn Mosby will charge you faster than a criminal?

It is impossible for jurisdictions to keep their top prosecutors. PG county cant keep their experienced prosecutors on the payroll bc private firms can offer 2-3x as much. Now she comes in and fires people? people who know how to prosecute a case and defense attys respect?

bet $1,000 right now she will never be 1st chair for a serious case. Why? she is unqualified but the democrat voters voted her in the gubernational elections and no republican or other party ran against her so when balt city went to vote, it was her or a blank line for a write in.

The ripple effect on this could be unimaginable. this could set baltimore back in ways people dont imagine bc its more behind the curtain.

I moving to columbia in a month.

Joe - i was shocked when I read the charging document stating that Gray surrendered after a brief foot chase. that implies no force so certainly no excessive force.

the charging document and Mosby's own words repeatedly stress that he was unlawfully detained with no PC as grounds to state any touching was illegal and therefore any consequence thereafter was illegal.

thats a slippery slope. under that language and thinking, any person who was arrested and the charges were later dismissed for lack of PC has a slam dunk 1983 civil rights claim. what happens if a person is mistakenly arrested and then they are killed by another prisoner? or catch hep c? or have a heart attack? do we now charge the arresting officers with murder 2? we all know jail is for criminals and criminals kill .. so is it depraved heart to put someone in jail and then they are subsequently attacked or killed? we all know being arrested can cause panic and stress, so if someone has a heart attack as a result, should we charge the arresting officer with murder 2?

** everything said above is my own personal opinion and not presented as fact.

I imagine every have decent crim defense atty will pray up a jury trial and assert speedy trial rights. no way the BC state's attorney's office can do anything right now but plea em out.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

She can't plea'em out. (1) Cops will simply not go for it; and (2) her constituents want a trial and conviction. Trust me, you are not the first individual to say she is completely unqualified for the position.

In the primary, the alternative was Greg Bernstein. He was well respected by the defense bar and had an office of well qualified prosecutors. My understanding is that, after a year in office, it was defense atty's were telling their clients "These guys don't play. You will get big numbers." All that's gone.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=over the mountain;1112845][T]he charging document and Mosby's own words repeatedly stress that he was unlawfully detained with no PC as grounds to state any touching was illegal and therefore any consequence thereafter was illegal.[/quote]

Well, they had reasonable suspicion to do a [I]Terry[/I] stop/"stop and frisk". There is a Supreme Court case which states that an individual's presence in an area known for heavy narcotics trafficking, combined with his unprovoked flight after seeing and being seen by an officer, justified a stop and search.

So, during the pursuit, if an officer shouts "Halt" and person keeps running, has the person now violated a lawful order of the police providing the necessary probable cause for an arrest? I don't know the answer. If it does, it sets the probable cause bar pretty low.

Good synopsis of the case: [url=http://departments.bloomu.edu/crimjust/pages/articles/run_frisk.htm]Person's Flight Can Justify Police Stop and Search, Supreme Court Rules[/url]

[quote]The incident that led to the decision today occurred at mid-day on a Chicago street in 1995. As four police cars on narcotics patrol approached the sidewalk where he was standing, Sam Wardlow turned and ran down an alley. An officer caught him and, in a pat-down search, felt a gun in a bag he was carrying under his arm. Justice Stevens said the police officer's testimony about what actually happened was too vague to support a finding of reasonable suspicion. The decision was an application of the court's 1968 decision in Terry v. Ohio, which for the first time authorized a warrantless, brief detention and search of a person acting suspiciously but under circumstances less conclusive than probable cause to believe that a crime had been committed. [/quote]

Re: Baltimore riots
 

As for your comments about police officers in Baltimore, I whole heartedly agree. I would suggest that law enforcement in Baltimore is going to be in a bad way in about two years.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

Wave of Baltimore shootings, killings continues

[URL="http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-shootings-homicides-20150511-story.html"]LINK[/URL]

"The increase in violence that has followed the death of Freddie Gray continued through the weekend, with four homicides reported since Saturday, according to Baltimore police.

Ten people were reported shot on Sunday alone, including three who were shot to death within a span of 39 minutes. The violence comes as the city prepares for the Preakness on Saturday at Pimlico Race Course."

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1113270]Wave of Baltimore shootings, killings continues

[URL="http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-shootings-homicides-20150511-story.html"]LINK[/URL]

"The increase in violence that has followed the death of Freddie Gray continued through the weekend, with four homicides reported since Saturday, according to Baltimore police.

Ten people were reported shot on Sunday alone, including three who were shot to death within a span of 39 minutes. The violence comes as the city prepares for the Preakness on Saturday at Pimlico Race Course."[/quote]


Baltimore has been a violent city for some time, and I don't think anybody thinks otherwise. That violence will continue to stay until the socioeconomic situation changes and drugs are made legal. Where there is poverty, there will be crime.


The problem here is when the cops present a clear and present danger to the citizens. Police should be held to a higher standard then the average citizen.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1113286]Baltimore has been a violent city for some time, and I don't think anybody thinks otherwise. That violence will continue to stay until the socioeconomic situation changes and drugs are made legal. Where there is poverty, there will be crime.

[B]The problem here is when the cops present a clear and present danger to the citizens. Police should be held to a higher standard then the average citizen.[/B][/quote]

It's not that simple. Sure, poverty = crime, and, yes, violence has been here for a while, but, it is surging above its norms. In my neighborhood, this is the time of year that we normally have kids out causing all sorts of minor vandalism and harassment. Right now, however, they have really been emboldened - throwing rocks at parents, kids, property with impunity. The police response is slow and, once on the scene, "Well, if you have a photo or can positively identify them while we are on the scene, we will see what we can do." They simply aren't going to arrest kids unless the crime happens right in front of them. The good cops feel undermined and, right now, things are going to get worse for law-abiding citizens rather than better.

[url=http://www.ibtimes.com/baltimore-gun-violence-surges-officers-say-they-feel-intense-scrutiny-wake-freddie-1915594]Baltimore Gun Violence Surges As Officers Say They Feel Intense Scrutiny In Wake Of Freddie Gray Death[/url]

Bottom line, not all cops, however, "present a clear and present danger to the citizens." In fact, the vast majority are simply doing a hard job in a violent city. The current perspective, however, lumps good and bad cops together, and the very thing they are accused of (essentially, racial profiling) is the very thing others now do to them [I]i.e.[/I] "Because they are (black/a cop), it is more likely than not that they are (a criminal/dangerous)." The hypocrisy is bad enough, the blindness to it is even more frustrating.

As I said, it's just not that simple. Policing is a necessary job. It needs to be done right and, to do so, each cop needs to be judged on their individual actions - not painted with a broad brush.

I hope that changes are made, but I am not holding out much hope for the near future. Too many systemic problems, and an absolute denial of responsibility by the African-American, liberal, Democrats of any role in the creation and prolonging of those systemic problems.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-baltimore-democrats-built/2015/05/04/35be9048-f264-11e4-bcc4-e8141e5eb0c9_story.html]The Baltimore Democrats built - The Washington Post[/url]

The same people will be re-elected (in a recent election, a poverty-ridden counsel district elected the son their long time counsel woman despite his criminal conviction and their unchanging economic situation)(the district in question borders/abuts the neighborhood where the riots began).

[url=http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-01-10/news/bs-md-ci-council-picks-colleague-20110110_1_agnes-welch-council-members-campaign-finance-reports]Pete Welch Baltimore | Welch sworn in to replace his mother on City Council - tribunedigital-baltimoresun[/url]

The political machines will be oiled and the proles will remain mindless sheeple who buy into demagoguery of corrupt politicians. The bad neighborhoods will get worse, the ones on the edge will sink into the slop and everyone with any property interests whatsoever will move to the rich white enclaves or leave altogether.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1113286]Baltimore has been a violent city for some time, and I don't think anybody thinks otherwise. That violence will continue to stay until the socioeconomic situation changes and drugs are made legal. Where there is poverty, there will be crime.


The problem here is when the cops present a clear and present danger to the citizens. Police should be held to a higher standard then the average citizen.[/quote]The article cites a noticeable increase in shootings, (fatal up by 30%, nonfatal by 50%, this year) and it's not the police shooting or getting shot at, that the article is talking about.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

Hogan signs body camera bill, among 350 others

[URL="http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-mammoth-bill-signing-20150512-story.html"]LINK[/URL]

"Gov. Larry Hogan signed a body camera bill Tuesday that supporters say would pave the way for equipping cops across the state with video equipment.

The law, which takes effect immediately, creates a commission charged with creating statewide guidelines on how police departments should use body cameras and recommending ways to pay for the programs by the end of this year."

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1113294]As I said, it's just not that simple. Policing is a necessary job. It needs to be done right and, to do so, each cop needs to be judged on their individual actions - not painted with a broad brush.[/quote]

Not sure the cops are being painted with a broad brush. It's the system that people don't trust, and inherently the cops. When the system protects bad cops, people lose faith in the system and the people under that umbrella. You are correct on the the other points.




[quote=JoeRedskin;1113294]Too many systemic problems, and an absolute denial of responsibility by the African-American, liberal, Democrats of any role in the creation and prolonging of those systemic problems.

The same people will be re-elected (in a recent election, a poverty-ridden counsel district elected the son their long time counsel woman despite his criminal conviction and their unchanging economic situation)(the district in question borders/abuts the neighborhood where the riots began). [/quote]

Considering most of the Baltimore political entity is black, it's definitely not a racial issue. To me, it's more of a socioeconomic issue. The politicians will continue to pander to their voting base to continue to get elected, when in reality they don't give two shits about the people. Greed and corruption sees no color after all.

Getting out of poverty and changing a dreadful inner city is easier in theory than actually implementing. Most of these people are uneducated and been brought up in a element of crime/poverty, and they adapt to their surroundings. Their children will be raise the same way. It does start with people in the community and the parents, but more often than not, it's a cycle that's extremely hard to break.


[quote=JoeRedskin;1113294] The bad neighborhoods will get worse, the ones on the edge will sink into the slop and everyone with any property interests whatsoever will move to the rich white enclaves or leave altogether.[/quote]


This sounds like the plot of Robocop. When can we expect OCP to come buy up all the inner city realty and rebuild it into Delta City? :joecool:

Re: Baltimore riots
 

Wait ... who could have foreseen this?!?

[url=http://www.wbaltv.com/news/violent-crime-up-arrests-down-in-baltimore/33109338]Violent crime up, arrests down in Baltimore | Maryland News - WBAL Home[/url]

Re: Baltimore riots
 

Just say No to guns........
-Nancy

Re: Baltimore riots
 

Should be interesting......

[url=http://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2015/05/18/facing-1-billion-deficit-arizona-sharply-limits-welfare]Facing $1 Billion Deficit, Arizona Sharply Limits Welfare - US News[/url]

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1113612]Wait ... who could have foreseen this?!?

[url=http://www.wbaltv.com/news/violent-crime-up-arrests-down-in-baltimore/33109338]Violent crime up, arrests down in Baltimore | Maryland News - WBAL Home[/url][/quote]

"Zero tolerance and arresting everybody for every little thing led to the underlying issues that we have been dealing with in the city. So, for me, we have to look at who is being arrested, the quality of arrest and what they are being arrested for versus the sheer number of arrests," Baltimore City Councilman Brandon Scott said.

"You could have 500 arrests in a two-week period for, you know, loitering, or standing, or failure to obey versus having people who are suspects in homicides, robberies and shootings," Scott said.

^^^^ Yes, lets have Balt City council members tell me and my family that they are openly telling the Police Force to NOT interact with the loitering drunk druggies that walk my neighborhood. To let the drunk druggies piss and shit openly on the street where i have to walk with my daughter.

Lets make sure my lady gets chased down the street again bc we dont want to offend the drunk hispanics guys who wanted to see my mama's titties.

Joe - whats the point of even staying in the good parts? I was paying close to 6% property tax but I would have to pay for private school on top of that. the costs of the good neighborhoods are going up drastically. why buy a decent town home for 250k when you can buy a decent town home in Columbia for 250k?

--------------------------

lol why were travel expenses approved for councilwoman Helen Holton to travel to hawaii for a convention addressing west coast state issues when only reps for those west coast states are going .. except some random lady named Helen Holton from Balt City.
-------------------------------

Re: Baltimore riots
 

Trust me, right there with you OTM. Stuck here for a year or so, but have had enough. Can't get out soon enough.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

Where you headed Joe?

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/why-couldnt-130-million-transform-one-of-baltimores-poorest-places/2015/05/02/0467ab06-f034-11e4-a55f-38924fca94f9_story.html]Why couldn’t $130 million transform one of Baltimore’s poorest places? - The Washington Post[/url]

I dont know if this had been posted before, but this disgusts me...130 million tax dollars flushed down the drain. Thats your tax money. Im sure a good part of the money ended up in corrupt city officals, local clergy, corrupt businessmen...

I would never live in baltimore, overtaxed and poorly run.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=Hog1;1113684]Where you headed Joe?[/quote]

To the 'burbs. Still will work here. Just don't want to live here.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=Chico23231;1113689][url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/why-couldnt-130-million-transform-one-of-baltimores-poorest-places/2015/05/02/0467ab06-f034-11e4-a55f-38924fca94f9_story.html]Why couldn’t $130 million transform one of Baltimore’s poorest places? - The Washington Post[/url]

I dont know if this had been posted before, but this disgusts me...130 million tax dollars flushed down the drain. Thats your tax money. Im sure a good part of the money ended up in corrupt city officals, local clergy, corrupt businessmen...

[B]I would never live in baltimore, overtaxed and poorly run.[/B][/quote]

I have a friend who is a contractor with the City. The stories he tells me about the massive waste of money taking place are insane!

Re: Baltimore riots
 

The Wire was all truth.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1113706]I have a friend who is a contractor with the City. The stories he tells me about the massive waste of money taking place are insane![/quote]

Yeah, I mean waste happens everywhere...but when you have the same politicians, the same insiders, from the same party, saying the same thing, making the same promises over and over in Baltimore...folks you got to change it up. The samething isn't working, doesn't everyone realize that?

Politicians, civic leaders, the police, and most important the people who reside in Baltimore all are responsible for their city. It absolutely disgusts me when the Baltimore riots were happening and cnn was interviewing a recognizable Maryland senator or congressman...I forget his name...older black man. But his fucking excuse was the federal government had cut a program...and they needed more federal help ie "money". I seriously want to punch this mf'er out. The only thing his punk ass can come up with is my fucking federal tax dollars? Fuck you u fucking irresponsible piece of shit...clean up or own fucking problem.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=Chico23231;1113708]Yeah, I mean waste happens everywhere...but when you have the same politicians, the same insiders, from the same party, saying the same thing, making the same promises over and over in Baltimore...folks you got to change it up. The samething isn't working, doesn't everyone realize that?

Politicians, civic leaders, the police, and most important the people who reside in Baltimore all are responsible for their city. It absolutely disgusts me when the Baltimore riots were happening and cnn was interviewing a recognizable Maryland senator or congressman...I forget his name...older black man. But his fucking excuse was the federal government had cut a program...and they needed more federal help ie "money". I seriously want to punch this mf'er out. The only thing his punk ass can come up with is my fucking federal tax dollars? Fuck you u fucking irresponsible piece of shit...clean up or own fucking problem.[/quote]

im guessing Elijah Cummings.

Currently the Dem rep on the Benghazi panel which is nothing more than republicans using tax payer money for their own partisan political motives.

--------------------------------

I read a pretty insightful article on Baltimore's collapse post industrial period. Seems pretty spot on. Around the 30-40's the industrial plants employing a ton of people closed up, so the workers and white people kinda moved out and black people moved in and bought row homes in what they thought were good solid real estate moves.

But the jobs werent there anymore, the remaining affluent white people in their white gloves and hats that once walked Lexington Market did not do so anymore bc they did not want to mix with the new black population so that further pushed the remaining white people out of those areas. im sorry if i speak so openly about racial divide here. im repeating what the article said.

fast forward 6 decades later with no job growth, crumbling infrastructure and property values that sharply declined = half of baltimore as we see it today. huge blocks of boarded up crumbling row homes with something like 46% unemployment in the bad parts. even where i live in upper fells/washington hill we have random blocks of abandoned properties.

there are a lot of great hard working people in these depreciated areas. a lot of baltimore's soul and identity are rooted in these areas.

so sad. ive stuck up for baltimore for so long but i now realize i was insulated. i lived in locust point or fells point proper. the cities issues were foreign to me. with having made the mistake of moving to a bad block this past year and the riots, im just eyes-wide-open sad.

seeing a lazy car accident atty voted States Atty is sad.

becoming aware of just how bad our local council is and the nepotism and rewarded incompetence is just so sad.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

I don't live in Baltimore, and I haven't grown up around it, so I am definitely an outsider looking in. That said, on the radio this morning, the mayor made a statement that really ticked me off. It was, paraphrasing, She was grateful for President Obama's handling of a meeting to get things right, and (this is the part that aggravated me) she said that Sen Mikulsky said "this was the most intense discussion" about Baltimore she ever had been a part of.

What ticks me off is these politicians have been the ones creating the climate for the past 30 years (Mikulski specifically : Office: Senator (D-MD) since 1987
Previous office: Representative (MD 3rd District) 1977–1987) 40+ years, and somehow these discussions are going to change anything?

How do people BELIEVE this crud?

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1113714]I don't live in Baltimore, and I haven't grown up around it, so I am definitely an outsider looking in. That said, on the radio this morning, the mayor made a statement that really ticked me off. It was, paraphrasing, She was grateful for President Obama's handling of a meeting to get things right, and (this is the part that aggravated me) she said that Sen Mikulsky said "this was the most intense discussion" about Baltimore she ever had been a part of.

What ticks me off is these politicians have been the ones creating the climate for the past 30 years (Mikulski specifically : Office: Senator (D-MD) since 1987
Previous office: Representative (MD 3rd District) 1977–1987) 40+ years, and somehow these discussions are going to change anything?

How do people BELIEVE this crud?[/quote]

Lotta times institutions folks blindly put their trust in (large church congregations, school boards, civic leaders, community activists) are secretly in cohoots with the business leaders, real estate holding/developers, and politicians who only care about money. So these people work behind the scenes together for personal gain. Quid pro quo folks

Folks, Matty point of the wire,is actually not far off. I've seen it in Richmond

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=Chico23231;1113715]Lotta times institutions folks blindly put their trust in (large church congregations, school boards, civic leaders, community activists) are secretly in cohoots with the business leaders, real estate holding/developers, and politicians who only care about money. So these people work behind the scenes together for personal gain. Quid pro quo folks

Folks, Matty point of the wire,is actually not far off. I've seen it in Richmond[/quote]

I get it, but I don't GET it. You elect someone for 40 years, and at the end of 40 years they are telling me, we've got this covered, I'm calling BS.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1113716]I get it, but I don't GET it. You elect someone for 40 years, and at the end of 40 years they are telling me, we've got this covered, I'm calling BS.[/quote]

Well they have had it covered for 40 years right?

Another reason for term limits. Not having term limits embeds corrupt, quid pro quo behavior. From the local level to Washington. Believe me, that dog shit mayor is on the same path from the local level to the federal level.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

The system is..........busted, way

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[quote=over the mountain;1113712]I read a pretty insightful article on Baltimore's collapse post industrial period. Seems pretty spot on. Around the 30-40's the industrial plants employing a ton of people closed up, so the workers and white people kinda moved out and black people moved in and bought row homes in what they thought were good solid real estate moves.

But the jobs werent there anymore, [B][U]the remaining affluent white people in their white gloves and hats that once walked Lexington Market did not do so anymore bc they did not want to mix with the new black population[/U][/B] so that further pushed the remaining white people out of those areas. im sorry if i speak so openly about racial divide here. im repeating what the article said. [/quote](Bold mine) The article just discredited itself here. Why would people with money keep coming back to shop to the same places they had moved out of? Especially when those places start getting run down because the people with the best jobs, the biggest customers, also moved elsewhere? So shops start closing/changing. But no, let's blame problems with that community by accusing the people who [B]aren't there anymore[/B] of racism! There is a city government that's supposed to use tax dollars to support areas, provide good services, infrastructure, a clean safe environment, and support local businesses in a variety of ways. And the community should support each other in this. Other cities, and lots of rural communities, do this.

Why doesn't the article mention that, instead of basically saying the place can't survive without rich white people? (With white gloves and hats and they hate black people. They must be supervillains.)

[quote=over the mountain;1113712]fast forward 6 decades later with no job growth, crumbling infrastructure and property values that sharply declined = half of baltimore as we see it today. huge blocks of boarded up crumbling row homes with something like 46% unemployment in the bad parts. even where i live in upper fells/washington hill we have random blocks of abandoned properties.

[B][U]there are a lot of great hard working people in these depreciated areas. a lot of baltimore's soul and identity are rooted in these areas. [/U][/B]

so sad. ive stuck up for baltimore for so long but i now realize i was insulated. i lived in locust point or fells point proper. the cities issues were foreign to me. with having made the mistake of moving to a bad block this past year and the riots, im just eyes-wide-open sad.

seeing a lazy car accident atty voted States Atty is sad.

becoming aware of just how bad our local council is and the nepotism and rewarded incompetence is just so sad.[/quote](Bold mine) No argument with the rest. And people are generally hardworking and awesome anywhere if they have a chance. Maybe city, county, and state officials should be held accountable for good jobs in the area. Or people can keep crying racism and let the place go to pot. Looks like Baltimore chose the second option with what they did and who they elected. They need to start taking the first option more seriously, whether they elect a dem, reupub, indie, whatever.

Re: Baltimore riots
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1113717]Well they have had it covered for 40 years right?

Another reason for term limits. Not having term limits embeds corrupt, quid pro quo behavior. From the local level to Washington. Believe me, that dog shit mayor is on the same path from the local level to the federal level.[/QUOTE]
Term limits move the corruption from the long term elected corrupt officials to the unelected long term bureaucrats. Somehow what's needed is an equivalent of the internal affairs police departments have that is able to shed light on the dark corners of the political structure. Term limits also can create redundant application of ineffective solutions as new people cycle through and the same shucksters peddle fake solutions.

Even more than a political internal affairs system though, is a useful educated, slightly cynical voting public. And that isn't going to happen anytime soon. So I am not holding my breath awaiting a major change to the situation.

Sent from my S6 Edge

Re: Baltimore riots
 

im turning this into my own eff baltimore thread . .

friday night i had a juvenile rat run across my living room, right past my lady and under our fridge. i had to barricade my daughters room and our bed room, spent hours looking for the bastard but havent found him yet. hopefully he got out the same way he got in. i have to check every nook and cranny of our home every day now.

saturday i walked my daughter to the big playground in patterson bc the playground around the corner is just crap w kids doing drugs and "moms" rolling blunt and drinking liquor which they just leave as trash when they go. im over that play ground. well apparently some 13 and 14 year olds decided to go to the kids patterson park playground and curse and fight and talk about how they have all had sex with each other and who did who first and girls started fighting each other. the cursing and language was awesome.

sunday i got a parking ticket. not a big deal. my car was half legal half not. i didnt even think parking people made it as far up our neighborhood and just stayed down near fells and the bars.

today - i am heading out of the city around 8:10 am and see some police activity on the 395 bridge leading into the city (main in and out). there were some nice shiny black luxury cars with ppl out of the cars. traffic was jacked up all the way back as far as the eye could see.

on the radio they sd it was some pastor who wants to shut down traffic and it will not be business as usual until 30 mil funding for a juvenile detention center is diverted to city schools.

his tweets and photo opportunities are below. Why arent they arrested for civil disobedience or something? mosby cant allow this to keep happening. she needs to let the police ..i dont know .. police?

[url=http://www.wbal.com/article/115243/40/protest-blocks-morning-traffic-on-i-95]Protest Blocks Morning Traffic On I-95 | WBAL Radio 1090 AM[/url]

I love how the pastor is rolling in a new benz or escalade. not sure which one is his.

meanwhile balt city schools ARE OVER FUNDED!

[url=http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/no-baltimore-schools-are-not-under-funded/article/2564013]No, Baltimore schools are not under-funded | WashingtonExaminer.com[/url]

i heard they shut down both sides of 395 now so you cant get out of the city. thank god i made it out right before that or i would have had to driven through the dangerous west part of baltimore which is scary as hell even for people who live in the city. im not a tourist.

Hailgreen - i probably did a poor job of summarizing the article. here it is. a good read, seems to be well researched and vetted. i did leave out that in the 80s with the burbs super malls and what not change the shopping habits as well. before the canton crossing opening a few years ago with target and old navy, we could go to walmart in convington cove (near downtown) or drive to towson or white marsh to go big store shopping.

[url=http://qz.com/393128/white-flight-decimated-baltimore-businesses-long-before-rioters-showed-up/]White flight decimated Baltimore businesses long before rioters showed up – Quartz[/url]

Re: Baltimore riots
 

The Baltimore Sun @baltimoresun · 33m 33 minutes ago
Among the victims of the 29 shootings reported this weekend, one was a 9-year-old boy. [url=http://bsun.md/1IXM5Tj]9-year-old shot amid violent weekend in Baltimore - Baltimore Sun[/url]

29 shootings in 1 weekend?

there are only like 850k residents. the juveniles were already emboldened to walk right into oncoming traffic and dare you to honk your horn at them or ride their bikes blocking traffic or just being harassing a holes ... now the message after the protests seems to be "do what you want, the police have been told to stand down."

as a resident, it feels like Mosby and Rawlings gave the city to the deliquent juveniles who have no sense of restraint or calculation. they just mob attack tourists, snatch purses etc bc they dont think ahead. they commit acts of violence just to commit acts of violence. there is no thought to it.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR6Lcmhb6yU&feature=youtu.be[/url]

am i next? when i am walking w my 3 year old, do i need to act scared around these kids?

when they would step out in front of my car i would honk my horn, roll down the window and dare them. now? i honestly feel scared. i have a daughter and a bad shoulder, i just have to sit there and take it now. me, 36 year old guy needs to sit there in his car with his windows up while 14 year olds suanter through downtown like they own it. twice i had to keep my mouth shut in the past month.

maybe im being dramatic .... but something is changing in baltimore. it feels different. in a bad way.