With a move like this, I agree that Rod Gardner is on the way out. So we line up with Coles, McCants, Jacobs, and Thrash.

Yes, this is a message move about the importance of special teams. It is a move to get a Redskin type of player, and to probably trade a guy in Gardner who may well be a better fit on another team.

This is good solid move by the Redskins. We need Thrash's energy and enthusiasm and fire.

[QUOTE=Ghost]I've been hearing about the salary cap ramifications of Snyder's moves since he bought the team. Remember how adding Bruce Smith, Jeff George and Deion were going to ruin the Redskins' cap? Never happened, did it? Snyder is willing to overpay but not all that money is guaranteed and not all of it counts against the cap. We're lucky to have an owner who's willing to spend. Ask the Bengals and some other teams what it's like to have a cheap owner. They'll tell you it sucks. Regardless, this is Joe Gibbs' team now. And I'll go with him everytime, no matter how many of my fellow fans are exasperated by his personnel moves.

And even if you are right and this does turn out to be a fruitless trade, what's the harm? We lose a 5th round pick in 2005. BFD.[/QUOTE]


a couple of years ago the skins had the highest dead money charge in the league. Its was direct result of the spending spree you just mentioned, so there was ramifaications. We just didn't feel it that much because our team sucked.

Skins 009: We don't know the roster yet, so I'm not sure we can really judge things yet.

As for contracts, only Portis and Brunell got really big ones, and only Brunells is at all suspect, because of his age. Portis could be a very nice deal if he remains anywhere near his production levels. Salaries are only going to go up. Did we really severely overpay for Griffen and Springs? We didn't sign Champ and Kearse, like everyone thought we would.

Thrash is a special teamer and vet reciever. He helps on returns, and maybe makes Gardner expendable (along with the emergence of Jacobs and McCants).

As for St. Bobby, while I appreciated his skill, I think Gibbs often made him look good by making silk purses out of sows' ears. Gibbs gets the best out of his players. Would Spurrier or Norvil have done that?

As for cap hell, well, we'll see. I figure the league will bump up the cap in the next two years. We'll restructure a few deals, drop a few heavy contracts, and go from there. FA actually works both ways. It can be an opportunity to build a team. The Ravens won it. I think the Bucs we're like that too, maybe: the got Christie, etc, on the Oline, BJ as QB, Keyshawn, Gruden. In the end, I think it's coaches over FOs/GMs these days. Bellicheck probably matters more than the draft. Likewise with Gibbs.

But we need a good honest contrarian in our midsts, 009, and you may turn out to be right. Sometimes, the emporer has no clothes.

But not today. He's wearing Burgundy and Gold.

OK, for those who forgot how good the Bobby and Joe team were, thanks to Bobby's drafting and Gibbs coaching we got to 3 SB's. However, Booby's skill was the draft (and he still made some mistakes). These days the trick is FA, and I'm not sure any GM can assess veteran talent better than veteran coaches.

Depending how we do in this draft, we may need someone in who can pick college kids, but I'll give our coaches the benefit of the doubt for now.

As to this deal, I see it as only a benefit. It gives us immediate depth on the return teams - we now have 2 quality kickoff returners. It also allows us to lose Gardner without worrying about depth. Coles, Jacobs, McCants and Thrash as our 1st 4 receivers isn't a bad combo, especially considering the reports on Jacobs in minicamp.

It also makes me think even more that we are trying to acquire more picks to trade up with. IF the Lions aren't sold on taking Taylor or Winslow (whoever we decide to pick at 5), they may be willing to trade down. In that case we get both and possibly a DL as well. Either that or we trade up to late 1st/early 2nd and get one of the top DL available.

In any case I see a much improved roster and coaching staff next season. I'm not worried about the cap, because whatever people say, every team has had some cap problems and they all seem to work around them.

STUPID MOVE!!! Say what you want, but this guy will be lucky to crack a roster spot, hes not better than coles, gardner or mccants, proboly no bettter than jacobs and hes proboly on the same level as Cliff Russel.

The word is.... Thrash is being traded to us for NEXT year's 5th round pick....

I guess SOMETHING has to give.... We have Coles, we will re-sign McCants most likely... Gibbs has praised Taylor Jacobs so far in camp saying he has impressed... and then there's Rod Gardner.

Why we need Thrash is beyond me...

Maybe we are going to trade Gardner after all?? I don't know...

Even with Gardner gone we just signed that new receiver (who's name escapes me at the moment), plus we have Scott Cloman, who I would definitly like to see get some play time, along with Richmond Flowers (or did we lose him last year?) I think these guys could be really good given the oppurtunity.

I think Taylor Jacobs and Coles will be our starters by the end of this year.

Since I don't read minds, I don't know why the Skins felt a need to try to acquire James Thrash but let me offer a couple of possibilities:

1. The coaching staff has looked at the game tapes from last year and decided that outside of Coles, there are no top-shelf receivers on the squad. Hence, the need to find an experienced WR who is a "solid citizen" to help develop one or two of the young recievers.

2. Maybe James Thrash shows himself to be the kind of player that Joe Gibbs wants on his team in terms of the way he plays the game.

3. Maybe James Thrash is the punt returner that the Skins ought to seek because Morton is not nearly as good returning punts as he is kickoffs.

It's close to being a done deal, Thrash for a late round pick in 2005 per the Times

[url]http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20040330-122047-3841r.htm[/url]

I know it seems like an odd move, but Thrash is definitely a Gibbs kinda guy. He gives 110% effort and is a solid locker room presence. Look at it this way, we lost Patrick Johnson and replaced him with Thrash. I say that's a win for us.

He's a solid special teams guy, I think that's the main motivation for bringing him in.

[QUOTE=portis26]Maybe we could get Albert Connel too if he's not in jail!!!! :food-smil[/QUOTE]

Albert Connell would be a great pickup. His experience and leadership will....wait, hold on a second, has anyone seen my wallet? I'll finish this post when I find it.....


:joke:

Gardner is gone gone gone. Gibbs liked what he saw in Jacobs and Cloman and fully intends to resign McCants (they started negotiations). There's no more room on the roster for a WR that doesn't play special teams. I think we could probably get a 4th rounder for him.

[QUOTE=Daseal]Even with Gardner gone we just signed that new receiver (who's name escapes me at the moment), plus we have Scott Cloman, who I would definitly like to see get some play time, along with Richmond Flowers (or did we lose him last year?) I think these guys could be really good given the oppurtunity.

I think Taylor Jacobs and Coles will be our starters by the end of this year.[/QUOTE]


Richmond Flowers is gone. I was pretty impressed by him the couple days I was at camp though. Overall, I think this trade dosent make much sense at all. If Thrash came in here, he would already be the #5 or #6 reciver! Note to all NFL teams: All in-division trades are screwjobs.

Before we give all the credit for personnel to Beathard back in the day let's realize that Gibbs also had significant input into shaping his roster. Beathard was a draft wiz and was great at trading down and finding draft gems, but don't think for a second that Gibbs wasn't heavily involved in personnel decisions. He definitely was.

I don't understand what the big stink is about, like I said in another thread, what this move boils down to is we lost Patrick Johnson and replaced him with Thrash.

Thrash is a very good special teams player and he also has a very good work ethic. Pairing him with Morton on kickoffs will give us a damn good return duo.

Remember that Gibbs stresses special teams, he understands that 2-3 games per season can be won or lost on special teams alone. Losing Bryan Johnson was a significant blow to the unit, picking up Thrash helps negate that loss.

Plus throw in the fact he's a decent WR and it seems like a solid pickup to me. He was overmatched in Philly as their #1, he's clearly not #1 material. But as a #3 or 4 guy he could be very effective, especially working out of the slot. He's also a very good blocker for a WR, another aspect that is very important in this offense.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]....Thrash is definitely a Gibbs kinda guy. He gives 110% effort and is a solid locker room presence. ....He's a solid special teams guy, I think that's the main motivation for bringing him in.[/QUOTE]

Mattyk72,
I agree with you...finally someone who understands this move! This was purely a special teams/role player move. None of our WR's are very physical blocker/special teams player (except for Coles) and Coles is not going to play Special teams. Our third, fourth and fifth WR's need to contribute more on special teams or else they are dead weight on the roster.
I think everyone might have missed another possibility...if Gibbs did watch last years game tape, Chad Morton looked terrible last year and Morton is making big money.
Anything Thrash contributes at WR position is a bonus.. but we desperately needed some more physical play from special teams and with the recent addisitons of Thrash and Sellers, we just got instantly better on special teams.

[QUOTE=Daseal]Even with Gardner gone we just signed that new receiver (who's name escapes me at the moment), plus we have Scott Cloman, who I would definitly like to see get some play time, along with Richmond Flowers (or did we lose him last year?) I think these guys could be really good given the oppurtunity.

I think Taylor Jacobs and Coles will be our starters by the end of this year.[/QUOTE]

Are you talking about Kevin Swayne? Because I'm trying to figure out where he fits in now

Thrash has gotten an amazingly bad deal from the Philly press. He was miscast as a number one receiver, but he's a good blocking WR, he runs precise routes, and doesn't drop a lot of balls. That, to me, is a good addition. For a team like the Eagles, they like the "upside" of Pinkston and Mitchell more than the consistancy of Thrash.

Possibly this may be their motive, get thrash for special teams now. The reason we may have traded to get him is because he may have a cheap contract that plays in our favor he'll most likely demand more money after june 1 if he was cut.

Gardner may be gone but i doubt it. There was no indication of this in minicamp, he was invited. The post said that gibbs really likes McCants he said he reminds him of Art Monk. So we could possibly send gardner to the chiefs who need a big possesion reciever for a pick. Maybe this is an indication that we will take one of those great WR comming out of the draft i hope not because Taylor sounds so good at FS for the skins next year.

The starting line up at wr wil be McCants, Coles, and possibly Jacobs if healthy. thrash might be in the mix if he can show he is more than a bust but who knows

I don't think the Thrash addition has much of an effect if any on the WR corps. We have a solid 4 in place with Gardner, Coles, McCants and Jacobs.

I'm thinking that Thrash was purely a special teams acquisition, and like Defensewins said, anything he gives us at WR is a bonus.

We've already lost Patrick Johnson and Bryan Johnson who were both big contributors on special teams last year. Thrash is an upgrade to the unit.

I agree Matty. We might see him returning punts? Is he espcially fast or anything? Maybe him and Morton could be a nice kickoff duo as well.

this is the only report I've seen yet. I don't want to get into the slinging of mud, but I believe in Gibbs. He gives us much more credibility that Spurrier, and a proven winner. The bottom, line is, we can speculate all we want, but we won't know until the season starts. Lets have a little faith. We are a MUCH better team today than we were the day Spurrier left, and we have a Hall of Fame coach at the reins. For THAT I am TRULY thankful.

[quote]Report: Redskins acquire WR Thrash from Eagles
March 30, 2004
WASHINGTON (Ticker) - It appears James Thrash is headed back to the Washington Redskins.

The Washington Times is reporting that the Redskins have re-acquired the veteran receiver from the Philadelphia Eagles for a fifth-round pick in 2005.

The trade is expected to be announced on Tuesday.

Thrash has two years left on his contract - he is due to earn $1.6 million this year and $2 million in 2005.

Washington cleared up $2 million in cap space when it traded fullback Bryan Johnson to the Chicago Bears on Monday.

Thrash, 28, spent his first four seasons with the Redskins and caught 50 passes for 653 yards in 2000. But he signed as a free agent with Philadelphia in 2001 and had 164 receptions for 2,026 yards and 15 touchdowns in three years with the Eagles.

However, Thrash became the odd man out after the Eagles acquired Pro Bowl receiver Terrell Owens from the San Francisco 49ers earlier in the month. The Eagles plan to start Owens and Todd Pinkston with Freddie Mitchell as the third receiver.

Thrash likely will serve as the third receiver in Washington behind starters Laveranues Coles and Rod Gardner and can also return kicks, although the Redskins have Chad Morton in that role. Darnerien McCants, Washington's third receiver last season, is a restricted free agent who still can sign an offer sheet with another team.[/quote]

We can't argue with HOF Coach Gibbs!
 

We can't argue with HOF Coach Gibbs!

The only downside to this is the other team is the iggles!

Thrash is not trash, as some have said. I see him as the 3rd or 4th option, and as a contributor on ST. Not bad for an '05 5th rounder!

There are apparently quite a few posters in here that do not subscribe to the cousinvinnie/LDS combo braintrust who believe that a proven player is worth far more than a draft pick, or a future draft pick.

My thought is, were we really better off last year or the year before with all of the FA signees? Or with all of the RFAs we got at the expense of most of our 2003 Draft? Or was all of the failure due to OBC?

I say it was the later! Blame it all on Ole Ball Coach! Please!

We cannot be totally enamorred by the Draft, as much as we really want to be! We have to see why the FO is doing what it is doing. It is to a.) Satisfy an Owner who wants to win at all costs. b.) Satisfy a HOF Coach who wants to win at all cost with players with Character, and build the Redskin Family atmosphere!

This is not a bad thing! Just, different!

Can't we just all get along?

On another thought: Many said HOF Coach Gibbs would potentially struggle with the present day NFL and FA! I say he has proven them wrong already! He improved the team greatly the moment he signed!

Feeling fine about this move
 

Good special teamer, vet WR, and a positive lockerroom presence and hard worker. Plus he has ties to the DC area (I think he lives here). Sounds like a Gibbs guy to me.

We'll see about trades/picks, etc, but I feel fine about this either way. Gibbs said he was going to bring in Redskin guys, and that he'd make special teams a priority. Again, we should take him at his word.

Plus, and someone mentioned this as a joke, but he knows Reids system inside out. That can't hurt our scouting. ;)

[QUOTE=skins009]This is probably one of the dumbest moves I have ever seen. It is cleary evident now that Joe Gibbs has no idea what he's doing in terms for building a team. I said it before and I'll say it again WE NEED A GM. Here we go again pissing away all are draft picks. James Trash, aren't we already loaded at reciever. Yes. And can't we draft a guy who is solid on special teams. Yes. I would never questions Gibb's ability to coach. He is the best of all time. But this is just dumb. And we know Synder can't say no to Gibbs.[/QUOTE]


The Warpath :Flush: coach wants to see you in his office. Bring your hog nose, feather, and "R" Hat.... :Flush:

This is likely the end of Rod Gardner's career as a redskin. I suspect the skins will look to deal him soon.

Look, all of this offseason has been filled with surprises and even more surprises, all of them good. I don't know where this is going, but I put my trust in a proven system. Is that too much to ask? I do not think so. Thrash, Swayne and everyone else has been brought in for a reason. Joe Gibbs knows that reason. The rest of the Redskin's coaching staff knows that reason. We the fan do not know what the reason is as yet, but we should trust. Trust our coach. Trust his staff. Trust the front office. Basically trust everyone involved in the entire operation. We should trust that they know what they are doing. O ye of little faith, the chosen one has returned. Put faith in him. He will deliver.

are the people who are questioning why we got Thrash the same people who were wondering what we were going to do when we lost Pat Johnson?????

We'll see what happens. Thrash may never be used as a wide receiver and will probably be a special teamer.

I think Gibbs will keep Gardner,and use him like Brian Mitchel. Gardner does have two (shoudl be three) touchdown passes... I wouldnt be surprised if Gibbs gets him the ball more and lets him air it out. Gibbs has always had a bunch of trick plays.

[QUOTE=skins009]This is probably one of the dumbest moves I have ever seen. It is cleary evident now that Joe Gibbs has no idea what he's doing in terms for building a team. I said it before and I'll say it again WE NEED A GM. Here we go again pissing away all are draft picks. James Trash, aren't we already loaded at reciever. Yes. And can't we draft a guy who is solid on special teams. Yes. I would never questions Gibb's ability to coach. He is the best of all time. But this is just dumb. And we know Synder can't say no to Gibbs.[/QUOTE]


I disagree, we gave up nothing to get him a 5th next year big deal, this move paves the way to deal gardner and obtain more pick's, perhap's we are looking to package up both gardner and thrash with a pick and send them some where for pick's, don't judge this matter till you see the whole picture, remember brian johnson.

I love it, who thought you could only do stuff liek this when you are playin Madden. Who hasnt signed players just to trade them in the game before?!? I think Snyder is a hardcore Madden fan and uses that as a basis to run his team...

I'm with Daseal man...we definitely should give Cloman a shot! The guys a beast, and at 6' 3" 215 pounds of muscle..he's tough, maybe not as fast as the speedsters we have, but can catch anything thrown to him..(unlike Russell)..oh yeah, why is Russell still in Washington???

He'll get a chance under Gibbs, everyone will have their chance to prove themselves to him. I trust Gibbs will keep and play the best players for his system.

why?
 

Whatever happened to trying to build a team through the draft? I think we need to get some foundational players through the draft instead of bringing in recycled players via trades (a la James Thrash).

First of all, I never thought Thrash should have left Washington and I'm estatic to have him back. As for Gardener, I didn't hear anything about him from anyone during mini camp but I'm under the impression he practiced. Maybe that means Gibbs was not impressed with his film and futher disliked Gardener for not making plays in mini camp. In previous drafts teams have tried to trade for Gardener and I know the Redskins were offered a low first for him.

OaklandSkinz;

You wanted to know why Russell is still in Washington.

Two words: Raw ... speed.

He has bad hands - I mean really bad hands - but he can flat-out fly. And so the coaching staff wants to be sure that they can't teach him how to catch a football reliably before they let him go.

My guess is that the coaches will eventually give up on him because he has had bad hands in college and in his developmental years in the NFL. But these are new coaches; and if they see the speed he brings to the line of scrimmage, they have to want to keep him around to see if they can work a bit of "magic" with him.

He might just be the fastest man in the NFL; if not, he is in the top 5!

Patrick Johnson was just as fast if not faster, but was never utilized for his speed. Of course I cant coutn how many times I saw Johnson be the first to hit a guy on special teams because of how fast he got down the field. Perhaps Russel could be a great special teamer for us.

thrash is a hard working player with a lot of heart for the game. He is the tipical over achiever and self less player that Coach Gibbs loves he will be a good addition to the New Redskins he is not a super star wr that thanks of only him self ( T.O. and Keyshawn Johnson and others) i say the coach is still the man even when it comes to being the gm!!!

Thrash should make a excellent 3rd or 4th receiver, we'll really be able to spead out defenses when they hvae to watch out for all our receivers