Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/politics/barack-obama-isis/index.html]Obama: US safe against ISIS attack - CNNPolitics.com[/url]

oh realllllly

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Chico23231;1130911]I agree...its a fact. I don't understand how someone can be on the no fly list, but able to purchase a gun. How is that? Your a threat enough to fly...[/quote]

We also have significant discrepancies on who states choose to sell to. An individual whose committed a violent or gun related misdemeanor might be banned from owning a gun in FL but they can go to GA or AL and pick one up no problem. Only 33 states restrict gun ownership based on mental illness. In Vermont one can have committed a felony and still purchase a gun.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.html]San Bernardino shooting: Gunman appears radicalized - CNN.com[/url]


Syed Rizwan Farook -- who along with his wife, Tashfeen Malik, carried out the San Bernardino shooting massacre -- apparently was radicalized and in touch with people being investigated by the FBI for international terrorism, law enforcement officials said Thursday.

Farook's apparent radicalization contributed to his role in the mass shooting of 14 people Wednesday during a holiday party for the San Bernardino County health department, where Farook worked, sources said.

[B]Still, it wasn't necessarily the only driver behind the carnage, as workplace grievances may have also played a role. President Barack Obama hinted as much Thursday when he said that the attackers may have had "mixed motives."[/B]

David Bowditch, assistant director in charge of the FBI's Los Angeles office, told reporters Thursday that Farook had traveled to Pakistan.

And two government officials said no red flags were raised when he'd gone to Saudi Arabia for several weeks in 2013 on the Hajj, the annual pilgrimage to Mecca that Muslims are required to take at least once in their lifetime. It was during this trip that he met Malik, a native of Pakistan who came to the United States in July 2014 on a "fiancée visa" and later became a lawful permanent resident.

Officials had previously said neither Farook and Malik were known to the FBI or on a list of potentially radicalized people. Nor had they had any known interactions with police until Wednesday.

Yet Farook himself had talked by phone and on social media with more than one person being investigated for terrorism, law enforcement officials said.

[B]The communications were "soft connections" in that they weren't frequent, one law enforcement official said. It had been a few months since Farook's last back-and-forth with these people, who officials said were not considered high priority[/B].


Interesting, CNN spinning the contact with terrorist as "soft contact" and "work grievances" as split motives. We are good with soft contact with terrorists?

pay attention folks...media/government are making excuses all ready.

Were the same excuses made the nutcase in Colorado?

So workplace violence and gun laws will be the excuses and not Muslim terrorist?

You know, we need to probably arrest someone at the office for being too mean to this guy...

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

Ok I'll take the hit .Fuck the NRA!!! Look I'm not some anti gun nut ,I don't want "all guns banned" and yes we need to enforce laws that are all ready on the books but it's the NRA back rooming and getting people all worked up about the second amendment .Yes I know guns don't kill people ....fuck that shit and come up with an answer ,we have 5% of the worlds population and 80% of it's guns.Again I get it it's a sport to some of you fine and I understand hunters but this has got to stop there is still no reason why we can't treat them like cars , register all guns, make gun owners carry insurance and all gun owners have to have a "License" to carry a gun and no one under the age of 10 is allowed anywhere near a gun.The answer isn't more guns there are plenty of fucking guns
Now notice I have not said bann anything ,I have not said anyone can't have a gun but I think gun owners now need to step it up and arming everyone isn't the answer unless you can guarantee the mental health of everyone with a gun.Remember these people who did this shit yesterday they planned for it the little shit who shot up Sandy Hook in Conn he planned it,the kids at Columbine ...same thing. It's time for Gun owners and the NRA to come up with a plan ,a real one.:mad::rant::soapbox: (sorry)


[url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3212226/America-highest-rate-mass-shootings-world-dark-exceptionalism.html]US has high rate of mass shootings because of 'the dark side of exceptionalism' | Daily Mail Online[/url]


[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-danger-of-labeling-gun-violence-a-mental-health-issue_560eb88ee4b076812701c2c9]Why America's Mass Shootings Can't Be Labeled A Mental Health Issue[/url]


[url=http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/san-bernardino-shooting/staggering-stats-there-have-been-more-mass-shootings-days-year-n473436]Staggering Stats: There Have Been More Mass Shootings Than Days This Year - NBC News[/url]

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Schneed10;1130925]Not really sure why some are so intent on rushing to judgment in this thread as to the motivation. Just let the investigation run its course and let all the facts come out.[/quote]


Ok , what will it take for you to rush to judgement a A bomb in your back yard ???

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Hog1;1130918]Some of you are a little to.......hysterical to have a rational discussion at this time[/quote]

this times 1000.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Chico23231;1130930][url=http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/politics/barack-obama-isis/index.html]Obama: US safe against ISIS attack - CNNPolitics.com[/url]

oh realllllly[/quote]

Unfortunately, the US is not safe against mass shooting. We can't have a grown up conversation about gun control because some people pay a lot of money to keep their toys.

ISIS doesn't need to attack the US, our stupid gun-totting population is already doing the job for them.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

France has a terrorist attack and they killed how many(130)? and what are their laws?

We have one that kills 14, and our gun laws are to blame?

Evil people wanting to do evil things will do them with pipe bombs, ied's, or planes.

We should be giving due recognition to the systems we have in place that repeatedly minimize the damage these types of evil acts attempt to inflict, instead of going for the happy happy joy joy solutions that far too often actually beget bad laws.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Schneed10;1130925]Not really sure why some are so intent on rushing to judgment in this thread as to the motivation. [B]Just let the investigation run its course and let all the facts come out[/B].[/quote]

How dare you try to confuse the issue with facts!

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1130936]Unfortunately, the US is not safe against mass shooting. We can't have a grown up conversation about gun control because some people pay a lot of money to keep their toys.

ISIS doesn't need to attack the US, our stupid gun-totting population is already doing the job for them.[/quote]

Or using Pressure Cookers like the Muslim boston bombers from Dagastan.

Are you saying ISIS needs to save their plane money and let our own Islamic terrorists kill us?

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1130935]this times 1000.[/quote]



I do mean this with the ultimate amount of respect but BS!

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Chico23231;1130940]Or using Pressure Cookers like the Muslim boston bombers from Dagastan.

Are you saying ISIS needs to save their plane money and let our own Islamic terrorists kill us?[/quote]

Real quick, go look up the number of people killed by pressure cookers vs the number of people killed by guns. I'd imagine they are quite different.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1130937]France has a terrorist attack and they killed how many(130)? and what are their laws?

We have one that kills 14, and our gun laws are to blame?

Evil people wanting to do evil things will do them with pipe bombs, ied's, or planes.

We should be giving due recognition to the systems we have in place that repeatedly minimize the damage these types of evil acts attempt to inflict, instead of going for the happy happy joy joy solutions that far too often actually beget bad laws.[/quote]

Most of the deaths in Paris were from the guns not the bombs. The guns were result of no border between France and countries with lax gun laws, not France's own laws. Just like many guns used in California crimes are the result of Nevada's non-existent gun laws.

Gun nuts love to point to Chicago and say that tough gun laws don't stop gun crime. That isn't because of Chicago's laws, it is because of other states' shitty laws. For example when I lived in Mississippi there were 3 pawns shops there that had sold the guns that were used in dozens of murders and at least 1 shot police officer.

[B]Gun crime isn't caused by tough gun control laws it is allowed by weak gun control laws. [/B]

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1130937]France has a terrorist attack and they killed how many(130)? and what are their laws?

We have one that kills 14, and our gun laws are to blame?

[/quote]

Attributing the difference in death count to gun laws makes no sense, the death count difference there in Paris has everything to do with population density.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Hijinx;1130943]Most of the deaths in Paris were from the guns not the bombs. The guns were result of no border between France and countries with lax gun laws, not France's own laws. Just like many guns used in California crimes are the result of Nevada's non-existent gun laws.

Gun nuts love to point to Chicago and say that tough gun laws don't stop gun crime. That isn't because of Chicago's laws, it is because of other states' shitty laws. For example when I lived in Mississippi there were 3 pawns shops there that had sold the guns that were used in dozens of murders and at least 1 shot police officer.

[B]Gun crime isn't caused by tough gun control laws it is allowed by weak gun control laws. [/B][/quote]

look how well his type of philosophy has served us worked in the "War on drugs".........

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1130944]Attributing the difference in death count to gun laws makes no sense, the death count difference there in Paris has everything to do with population density.[/QUOTE]
Attributing the deaths in California to our gun laws makes very little sense. My point of the France attack is that when a person has the intent to cause major casualties they will do their damndest to achieve their goals and won't worry about whether or not they are legally allowed to have the guns that they are about to use.

Sent from my S6 Edge

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Hog1;1130945]look how well his type of philosophy has served us worked in the "War on drugs".........[/quote]

Drugs have a physiological and physical addiction, these make people crave them and thus willing to break the law to get them. Treatment is a much better option. Although GOP lawmakers do not wish to spend money of fighting addiction because they feel that it looks "weak on crime" and prefer to spend money on [I]for profit[/I] prisons that kick money back to them as political contributions.

Guns only have physiological addictions. [B]OH AND THERE IS THAT THING THAT DRUGS ONLY KILL PEOPLE WHO TAKE THEM, NOT OTHERS.[/B] The next time someone is killed by someone wielding a joint, your comparison may make sense.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

Let me try to help with this.....
Drugs are now and have been illegal for about a millennia. NEVER been more prolific, more profitable or easier to get than today. Hows that war on drugs going?
Guns will follow a similar trail if forced underground....
And please...stop beating that....tired ass party line drum BS.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Hijinx;1130947]Drugs have a physiological and physical addiction, these make people crave them and thus willing to break the law to get them. Treatment is a much better option. Although GOP lawmakers do not wish to spend money of fighting addiction because they feel that it looks "weak on crime" and prefer to spend money on [I]for profit[/I] prisons that kick money back to them as political contributions.

Guns only have physiological addictions. [B]OH AND THERE IS THAT THING THAT DRUGS ONLY KILL PEOPLE WHO TAKE THEM, NOT OTHERS.[/B] The next time someone [B]is killed by someone welding a joint[/B], your comparison may make sense.[/quote]

Well if you take an arc welder to someone's joints you are going to maim them at the very least.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Hog1;1130948]Let me try to help with this.....
Drugs are now and have been illegal for about a millennia. NEVER been more prolific, more profitable or easier to get than today. Hows that war on drugs going?
Guns will follow a similar trail if forced underground....
And please...stop beating that....tired ass party line drum BS.[/quote]

By your tired ass BS line, we shouldn't make anything illegal. No laws. Total anarchy. Truly a right wing dream. Like Somalia with colder weather.

People will alway choose to break laws if they can. So you make it harder for them to do so, not easier. Because this [U]let the crazies have as many guns as they want[/U] idea has been around a long time too. And spoiler alert, it isn't working.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1130939]How dare you try to confuse the issue with facts![/quote]

So ,it's full blown terrorism not just some wacko with a gun.....oh wait, so tell me what the difference is again? (SARCASM ALERT)


Can we stop everything , no we can't and I do understand that but can't we just make it harder for these people to do what they do ?

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Hijinx;1130943]Most of the deaths in Paris were from the guns not the bombs. [B]The guns were result of no border between France and countries with lax gun laws, not France's own laws. [/B] Just like many guns used in California crimes are the result of Nevada's non-existent gun laws.
...[/quote]

This is simply a false statement. If you don't believe me (I assume you won't), then I suggest you look at the links below. The short answer is every EU country has signed an agreement to a minimum restrictive set of gun laws. If they aren't being followed (ie Belgium) that moreso makes my point.

The long version follows:

The EU stance, [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation#European_Union:[/url]
[quote]Prior to abolition of the internal border controls, the Council of the European Communities adopted the Directive 91/477/EEC, which was later, in 2008, amended by Directive 2008/51/EC. As a Directive, it is not a self-executing norm, but a legislative act which requires Member State to achieve a particular result without dictating the means of achieving it. Member States must meet the minimum requirements laid down by the directive, but may also elect to adopt more stringent rules.[89] Thus certain countries such as the United Kingdom or Poland are unaffected as they maintain more stringent gun control laws than those effectively set as a minimum by the European Union, while others, like the Czech Republic, were forced to introduce more regulation in their national legislation.[/quote]

Further,

Here are France's direct neighbors, the length of the border, and a synopsis of their gun laws or rating as provided by GunPolicy.org, [url=http://www.gunpolicy.org]Gun Law and Policy: Firearms and armed violence, country by country[/url]

Andorra 56.6 km -
[quote]Civilian Gun Registration
In Andorra, the law does require that a record of the acquisition, possession and transfer of each privately held firearm be retained in an official register
Gun Dealer Record Keeping
In Andorra, licensed firearm dealers are required to keep a record of each firearm or ammunition purchase, sale or transfer on behalf of a regulating authority[/quote]

Belgium 620 km - [URL="http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/belgium"]The regulation of guns in Belgium is categorised as restrictive[/URL]

Germany 451 km same link, The regulation of guns in Germany is categorised as restrictive

Italy 488 km
[quote]In Italy, only licensed gun owners may lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition
Genuine Reason Required for Firearm Possession
Applicants for a gun owner’s licence in Italy are required to establish a genuine reason to possess a firearm, for example self-defence, hunting, sport, work or performance of duties, as well as collection
Minimum Age for Firearm Possession
The minimum age for gun ownership in Italy is 18 years
Gun Owner Background Checks
An applicant for a firearm licence in Italy must pass a background check which considers criminal and mental records
Limit on Quantity, Type of Ammunition
Licensed firearm owners in Italy are permitted to possess only ammunition suitable for the intended firearm[/quote]

Luxembourg 73 km - The regulation of guns in Luxembourg is categorised as restrictive

Monaco 4.4 km - The regulation of guns in Monaco is categorised as restrictive

Spain 623 km - The regulation of guns in Spain is categorised as restrictive

Switzerland 573 km - The regulation of guns in Switzerland is categorised as restrictive

For comparison, here are their remarks on the US:
- The regulation of guns in the United States is categorised as permissive
[quote]the United States, non-prohibited persons of minimum age 23 may lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition
Minimum Age for Firearm Possession
The minimum age for gun ownership in the United States is regulated by state or local authorities according to weapon type, but is 18 years to purchase shotguns and rifles and 21 years to purchase all other firearms, according to Federal law
Domestic Violence and Firearms
Where a past history, or apprehended likelihood of family violence exists, the law in the United States stipulates that firearm possession should be denied or guns seized
Licensing Records
In the United States, authorities do not maintain a record of individual civilians permitted to acquire, possess, carry, sell or transfer a firearm or ammunition[/quote]

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

I realized I didn't include France's laws, but the same source puts them as restrictive, and the expanded sections are very detailed about just how they are. Here is the link for France:[url=http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/france]Guns in France — Firearms, gun law and gun control[/url]

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

Many of the EU union more more lax gun laws then those you mentioned. Many allow for semi automatic rifles that can be converted.

The fact is that gun laws work. Australia is a prime example. After the 1996 Port Arthur shooting, they did the sane thing and put in strict gun laws. There have been zero since that day. So don't sit there and tell me they don't work, because that is a lie.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1130956]I realized I didn't include France's laws, but the same source puts them as restrictive, and the expanded sections are very detailed about just how they are. Here is the link for France:[url=http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/france]Guns in France — Firearms, gun law and gun control[/url][/quote]

Since you like that site read this paper about the fact that a majority of gun deaths (86%) are caused by legally own guns held by their owners.

It is just a fact you don't want to deal with that less gun ownership equals less gun violence.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Hijinx;1130958]Many of the EU union more more lax gun laws then those you mentioned. Many allow for semi automatic rifles that can be converted.

The fact is that gun laws work. Australia is a prime example. After the 1996 Port Arthur shooting, they did the sane thing and put in strict gun laws. There have been zero since that day. So don't sit there and tell me they don't work, because that is a lie.[/quote]

I mentioned all the countries that directly border France, and cited the EU framework that requires all countries to hold to certain standards.

Australia is a lousy example, because it is an island unto itself, and sparse population(23 million people over 2.97 million square miles compared to 318.9million people over 3.8 million square miles )

For the record there were gun homicides every year since 1996 in Australia. I don't know what you are saying is zero, but maybe you meant mass shootings?

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Hijinx;1130960]Since you like that site read this paper about the fact that a majority of gun deaths (86%) are caused by legally own guns held by their owners.

[B]It is just a fact you don't want to deal with that less gun ownership equals less gun violence.[/B][/quote]

I wouldn't argue against that.

I would argue that giving up an established right in the constitution, that was put there for a very specific reason, is a short sighted answer to the serious problem of how to reduce violence and will lead to a long term worse situation.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Giantone;1130952]So ,it's full blown terrorism not just some wacko with a gun.....oh wait, so tell me what the difference is again? (SARCASM ALERT)


Can we stop everything , no we can't and I do understand that but can't we just [B]make it harder for these people to do what they do[/B] ?[/quote]

What are your thoughts on that issue?

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Hijinx;1130958]Many of the EU union more more lax gun laws then those you mentioned. Many allow for semi automatic rifles that can be converted.

[B]The fact is that gun laws work. Australia is a prime example. After the 1996 Port Arthur shooting, they did the sane thing and put in strict gun laws. There have been zero since that day. So don't sit there and tell me they don't work, because that is a lie.[/B][/quote]

Wow.......

[url=http://www.mintpressnews.com/the-facts-that-neither-side-wants-to-admit-about-gun-control/207152/]The Facts That Neither Side Wants To Admit About Gun Control[/url]

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Chico23231;1130940]Or using Pressure Cookers like the Muslim boston bombers from Dagastan.

Are you saying ISIS needs to save their plane money and let our own Islamic terrorists kill us?[/quote]

I think we have plenty of Christian terrorists (Planned Parenthood shootings) and heavily armed nuts (Sandy Hook, Aurora, etc., etc.) that cause plenty of terror in this country.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1130937]France has a terrorist attack and they killed how many(130)? and what are their laws?

We have one that kills 14, and our gun laws are to blame?

Evil people wanting to do evil things will do them with pipe bombs, ied's, or planes.

We should be giving due recognition to the systems we have in place that repeatedly minimize the damage these types of evil acts attempt to inflict, instead of going for the happy happy joy joy solutions that far too often actually beget bad laws.[/quote]

Europe has twice the population as the U.S. but not nearly the gun violence, although the Scandinavian countries and Switzerland have higher per capita deaths by gun violence. To be honest we don't know the full extent of gun violence in the U.S. since the CDC stopped tracking the impacts and rates in 1996. We basically have two groups pro gun control and anti gun control that are trying to make points without any credible data.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Hog1;1130972]Wow.......

[url=http://www.mintpressnews.com/the-facts-that-neither-side-wants-to-admit-about-gun-control/207152/]The Facts That Neither Side Wants To Admit About Gun Control[/url][/quote]

Oh wow!! [U]The Mint News Press[/U] that is some well respected writing right there. You basically threw out a couple hundred word opinion piece, that doesn't site any sources on his made up "facts". All wrapped up and put of a right wing conspiracy site. BTW love this article [URL="http://www.mintpressnews.com/trump-says-he-saw-muslims-celebrating-on-911-but-he-was-wrong-it-was-israeli-mossad-agents/211748/"]here[/URL]. It says Trump was right. People were dancing in the streets during 9/11, only it was Mossad Agents. Seems legit.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

Islamic terrorist

This bullshit isn't about gun control

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

Why would a wife drop off her own 6 mo old baby to help rectify a workplace grievance?

Wake the fuck up folk...can't bye what this president is trying to sell you. He is trying to cover his ass on the poor ass job he is doing.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1130974]I think we have plenty of Christian terrorists (Planned Parenthood shootings) and heavily armed nuts (Sandy Hook, Aurora, etc., etc.) that cause plenty of terror in this country.[/quote]

So that nut was a Christian? Some part of a radical Christian group? Yeah that's not true or no investigation has proven it. That sounds like" well he is white and anti arbortion so he must be Christian" this logic doesn't make sense....

christian terrorists? Yeah, this is a well known terror movement or something I haven't heard about...I'm lost on your statement.

White folks who maybe anti abortion, anti government, or flat out racist like the kid in charleston doesn't mean they are some sort of violent pro-Christian movement.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Hijinx;1130983]Oh wow!! [U]The Mint News Press[/U] that is some well respected writing right there. You basically threw out a couple hundred word opinion piece, that doesn't site any sources on his made up "facts". All wrapped up and put of a right wing conspiracy site. BTW love this article [URL="http://www.mintpressnews.com/trump-says-he-saw-muslims-celebrating-on-911-but-he-was-wrong-it-was-israeli-mossad-agents/211748/"]here[/URL]. It says Trump was right. People were dancing in the streets during 9/11, only it was Mossad Agents. Seems legit.[/quote]

I don't think your going to be able to have this conversation.....

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

This is not a comment on gun control which I think is such a hairy subject that we may never solve in this country but...

Guns don't cause this stuff to happen. Guns are the tool not the cause. Instead of both sides using this tragedy as a reason to bolster their case we need to focus on WHY THIS CRAP HAPPENS. I've never seen a real discussion led by adults on how to stop this stuff. It strikes me that simply getting rid a every gun (a complete impossibility anyways) is like cutting off your nose to cure congestion. We need to treat the causes not the symptoms.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=Chico23231;1131017]Why would a wife drop off her own 6 mo old baby to help rectify a workplace grievance?

Wake the fuck up folk...can't bye what this president is trying to sell you. He is trying to cover his ass on the poor ass job he is doing.[/quote]

I think you can lump every leader in the developed world in together, until the Paris attack security agencies through Europe, North America and Japan did not consider ISIS as a valid terror threat.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=FRPLG;1131022]This is not a comment on gun control which I think is such a hairy subject that we may never solve in this country but...

Guns don't cause this stuff to happen. Guns are the tool not the cause. Instead of both sides using this tragedy as a reason to bolster their case we need to focus on WHY THIS CRAP HAPPENS. I've never seen a real discussion led by adults on how to stop this stuff. It strikes me that simply getting rid a every gun (a complete impossibility anyways) is like cutting off your nose to cure congestion. We need to treat the causes not the symptoms.[/quote]

Oh you! Stop making sense. There is NO place for it in this thread. Please speak only in absolutes and hyperbole.

Re: Domestic terrorism
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1131023]I think you can lump every leader in the developed world in together, until the Paris attack security agencies through Europe, North America and Japan did not consider ISIS as a valid terror threat.[/quote]

Oh...so ignorance is an acceptable excuse?

psshhh jeez. wake up