Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=Hog1;1134059]Did you read your Blackfoot article? It is largely Pro-Redskin. If that is your position, you have done well. If yours is "slur" you may want to read the piece.......[/quote]

Please read what it is I wrote ,yes I am pro name and have said nothing different but don't tell me all NA aren't against it and don't tell me it was never a slur.Through times things change but All I started out to do was show both sides becuase in an open debate you must present both sides.

I posted the Blackfoot artical to show that even members of the same tribe are not in agreement on this thing,if you read the whole thing it's not largely it's about half.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

LOL, well now you are just plain adorable, giantone. And contradicting your earlier positions. But OK for fun let's take you at your word... glad you have seen the light!

[quote=Giantone;1134054]What is ignorant is not understand the other side of the argument.You say there is none so anyone who tries to explain it to you is in your words"ignorant"I feel sorry for you .[/quote]No, I have said the "washington redskins name is racist" side is WRONG. And proven it to you before, your denials notwithstanding.

[quote=Giantone;1134054]As I have said before for this to be coming out now or even two years ago is HS and I actually back DS on this issue[/quote]Wonderful, DS' position is:
[URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11313245/daniel-snyder-redskins-term-honor-respect"]
Washington Redskins owner Daniel Snyder told ESPN's "Outside the Lines" that he is adamant he doesn't have to bow to pressure to change his team's nickname because it's not disparaging to Native Americans but instead a term of honor and respect.[/URL]

So I am glad we can agree on this, giantone!


[quote=Giantone;1134054]Now for you to say the most NA's feel like you do or [U]the word was never a racial slur[/U] is not correct[/quote](underline mine) Oh for the love of... giant one, you can't get ONE POST done without contradicting yourself. BTW you dishonestly state my position as well. For starter, I NEVER SAID the term was "never" used as a slur. I have REPEATEDLY said that the name wasn't used originally as a slur, that novelists and movie-makers took the name and used it as a slur. (and btw they did the same to just about any nickname for NA's "indian" "injun" "chief" "red man" during that time period) Since then the name has been used as Dan Snyder described, by the Washington football team, and other teams including some NA teams!, as a name to root for, symbolizing strength, honor, and respect. And that's how the name is commonly used today.

[URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in-arizona-a-navajo-high-school-emerges-as-a-defender-of-the-washington-redskins/2014/10/26/dcfc773a-592b-11e4-8264-deed989ae9a2_story.html"]https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in-arizona-a-navajo-high-school-emerges-as-a-defender-of-the-washington-redskins/2014/10/26/dcfc773a-592b-11e4-8264-deed989ae9a2_story.html[/URL]

And again giantone, poll after poll has proven most Americans and most NAs don't support changing the name "redskins".

[URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/new-poll-says-large-majority-of-americans-believe-redskins-should-not-change-name/2014/09/02/496e3dd0-32e0-11e4-9e92-0899b306bbea_story.html"]Americans (including NAs)[/URL]

[URL="http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/redskins-question-in-2004-annenberg-study-cited-anew-in-controversy/"]NAs[/URL]

[URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/10/20/the-14-percent/"]More[/URL]

All this, despite a long and vocal whine from the PC crowd of the easily offended [URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9689220/redskins-name-change-not-easy-sounds"] which has been noted is mainly other ethnicities than NAs[/URL], is actually pretty remarkable this day and age.

[quote=Giantone;1134054] believe me or don't it makes no difference to me all I'm doing is voicing my opinion in a forum. You say you called me on it and I threw it back at you .It's called an honest debate.[/quote]Giantone, you did nothing but trot out the same already disproven assertions you tried before through proxy, by citing links already disproven. AND YOU LIED ABOUT MY POSITION ABOVE. I underlined it for everyone to see. Please don't ever call yourself an honest debater after this, not to mention way back when you lied during a gun control debate about what RedskinRat said, and about "not wanting to take you guns away" and then cheering a NY law that did just that.

[quote=Giantone;1134054[url=http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2014/07/02/redskins-officially-dictionary-defined-racial-slur-all-cases-155614]'Redskins' Is Officially a Dictionary-Defined Racial Slur—in All Cases - ICTMN.com[/url][/quote]Already refuted this thread.

[quote=Giantone;1134054]This one says pretty much what you and I both say!

[url=http://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/local/2014/11/17/redskins-racial-slur-blackfeet-weigh/19206641/]Is 'Redskins' a racial slur? Blackfeet weigh in[/url][/quote]It MOSTLY says pretty much what *I* have said, not anything you have directly said...

[quote=Giantone;1134054]and another...........

[url=http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/06/a-linguist-on-why-redskin-is-racist-patent-overturned/373198/]When Slang Becomes a Slur - The Atlantic[/url]

and last for now.

[url=http://www.politico.com/story/2014/06/washington-redskins-trademark-ruling-108025]Washington Redskins trademark ruling: 8 ways 'Redskin' is a slur - POLITICO[/url]

Merry Christmas and Best of luck Sat![/quote]And here we go again. giantone, these links oppose the position that Dan Synder takes on the name "Redskins". So which is it, giantone? Who's position do you REALLY support?


And by the way, you owe me an apology for lying about what I have said in this debate. And you did it in the same paragraph you claimed you were "throwing back" at me an "honest debate". Apologize.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

I apologize that you can't seem to understand an honest debate. I have said what I have said about this and I have been consistent .We agree to disagree on your perception of my opinion .
Enjoy your teams great victory and enjoy the fact that your team is the NFC East Champs and your trip into the post season.:)

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=Giantone;1134729]I apologize that you can't seem to understand an honest debate.[/quote]LOL. Another insult. (see above)

[quote=Giantone;1134729] I have said what I have said about this and I have been consistent .[/quote]Another lie. (See above)

[quote=Giantone;1134729]We agree to disagree on your perception of my opinion .[/quote]Another lie about what I am saying. (See above) SMH

[quote=Giantone;1134729] Enjoy your teams great victory and enjoy the fact that your team is the NFC East Champs and your trip into the post season.:)[/quote]And the usual platitude from you that you obviously don't mean, considering your continued lying the same post. LOL.

Not sure a better term for you is either "trolling" or with the way you posted links earlier "debating in bad faith", or "debating by proxy".

Whatever decription is best Giantone, your "apology" is kinda like if Odell Beckham tried acting like a good sport after the panthers game. Pretty transparent.

That's all, unless you want to re-hash the same refuted stuff. This is gonna seem so fake, but it's not: Happy Holidays, giantone.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

I'm in Arizona now so i get to run into some Natives every now and then, also live by some reservations. You still see a lot of them going to Redskin games wearing their Redskin jerseys. Just had an old friend of the family visit thats works on a Hopi reservation near Flagstaff. She sees a lot of Redskin gear over there.
I remember the local news talking about protests at the game, but i didnt see any last year. I was tailgating most of day so i figured to see something.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

Really it gets old. And that it needs to come to an agreement. And it will sadly drag on.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=Zerohero;1135359]I'm in Arizona now so i get to run into some Natives every now and then, also live by some reservations. You still see a lot of them going to Redskin games wearing their Redskin jerseys. Just had an old friend of the family visit thats works on a Hopi reservation near Flagstaff. She sees a lot of Redskin gear over there.
I remember the local news talking about protests at the game, but i didnt see any last year. I was tailgating most of day so i figured to see something.[/quote]

the "protest" was about 10 people, so i'm not surprised you missed it.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=That Guy;1135361][B]the "protest" was about 10 people[/B], so i'm not surprised you missed it.[/quote]

I think that was pretty much the heart and soul of the Oneida nation.........

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

once again the name appears to be an issue. Notice in this list the only team listed only by city is Washington.[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14670101/playoff-teams-lose-players-every-offseason-guys-next-nfl]Playoff teams lose players every offseason and these guys could be next - NFL[/url]

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

pffffttttt
ESPN can blow me.......

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

Fuck political correctness.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=hutch17;1138580]once again the name appears to be an issue. Notice in this list the only team listed only by city is Washington.[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14670101/playoff-teams-lose-players-every-offseason-guys-next-nfl]Playoff teams lose players every offseason and these guys could be next - NFL[/url][/quote]

In other news, making a stand is still trendy. More to come on the news at 11.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=metalskins;1138591]Fuck political correctness.[/quote]

I like you!!!

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[QUOTE=metalskins;1138591]Fuck political correctness.[/QUOTE]
Agreed!

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

Who is crying about the name these days besides the corrupt, ultra liberal DC government?

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1140686]Who is crying about the name these days besides the corrupt, ultra liberal DC government?[/QUOTE]
The Stupid F#&king media!

Personally I have heard it several times in the past couple of weeks...

“They Must change the Name"

"We won't use the team name here because it is derogatory!"

That kind of $hit

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=kct1975;1140703]The Stupid F#&king media!

Personally I have heard it several times in the past couple of weeks...

“They Must change the Name"

"We won't use the team name here because it is derogatory!"

That kind of $hit[/quote]Yeah, "change the name" has become the same kind of small minded liberal one-upmanship as bragging "I own a hybrid car".

*i know... not every hybrid owner is liberal or a douche bag. Ooohh, tautalogy! :)

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[QUOTE=HailGreen28;1140704]Yeah, "change the name" has become the same kind of small minded liberal one-upmanship as bragging "I own a hybrid car".

*i know... not every hybrid owner is liberal or a douche bag. Ooohh, tautalogy! :)[/QUOTE]
[emoji106] [emoji106] [emoji106]

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

Here's your latest update, maybe [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html?tid=sm_tw"]this article from the WaPo[/URL] will be the last of this. Most likely not though, considering Susan Harjo already denounced the entire article and its (paraphrasing) crappy method of collecting results. I also didn't like how they finished the article with the husband and wife who are split on the issue. With the poll results maybe they should have gathered the husband and 8 of his closest relatives/friends for a more accurate depiction of the numbers.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=WillH;1134001]Yeah I hear ya, but I'm still on the lets just change the name side of the fence. (Also, I'd be surprised if your friend referred to himself as a midget. Little person, person with dwarfism. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but it is an outdated term)

That said, this game is fun:

Buffalo Bills - we nearly hunted the species into extinction, how can we exploit a species that humans have caused to be endangered threatened etc. Hell they're another native group that should be offended.
Bengals- see Buffalo Bills (not native to America though)
Bears- see Buffalo Bills
Broncos - glorifying the human eploitation of animals as property and forced labor.
Colts - see Broncos
Cowboys- see Broncos
Dolphins - see Buffalo Bills
Eagles - see Buffalo Bills
Falcons- see Buffalo Bills
Jaguars - see Buffalo Bills
Lions - see Bengals
Panthers- see Buffalo Bills
Rams - see Broncos
Seahawks - see Buffalo Bills, but also, ahem, I think you mean Osprey.

Seriously where the hell is PETA? WTF?

Titans - same as the Giants argument.

49ers - glorifying the exploitation of blue collar hard working Americans. Might as well name a team the Sweatshop workers.
Steelers- see 49ers

Chargers- named after credit cards, I am personally offended learning this. They are glorifying American materialism, and the exploitation of the American people by the banking industry and the cycle of debt that enslaves us.

Browns - Now that is a PC name. Just name your team after the color of the uniform. It is perfectly neutral. We could be the Burgandy and Gold. Done. All team names will be their colors.[/quote]

Cowboys and Patriots are worse than that to the Native Americans . . . they are the people that committed genocide on the Native American people as a whole . . . both of those names are akin to having a team called the Nazi's

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=Giantone;1134080]Please read what it is I wrote ,yes I am pro name and have said nothing different but don't tell me all NA aren't against it and don't tell me it was never a slur.Through times things change but All I started out to do was show both sides becuase in an open debate you must present both sides.

I posted the Blackfoot artical to show that even members of the same tribe are not in agreement on this thing,if you read the whole thing it's not largely it's about half.[/quote]

are we not supposed to be living in a democracy? . . . and in a democracy, does the majority not rule? . . . when a tiny minority gets their way in things like this that means the majority does not rule and the democracy is broken . . . there are TONS (a whole lot more than 10%) of people that are offended by strip clubs, pornagraphy, etc. . . . but those still exist . . . and are not going away

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=Zerohero;1135359]I'm in Arizona now so i get to run into some Natives every now and then, also live by some reservations. You still see a lot of them going to Redskin games wearing their Redskin jerseys. Just had an old friend of the family visit thats works on a Hopi reservation near Flagstaff. She sees a lot of Redskin gear over there.
I remember the local news talking about protests at the game, but i didn't see any last year. I was tailgating most of day so i figured to see something.[/quote]

i can't remember where i seen this, but a couple of years back i read and article regarding NAtive Americans and their favorite sports teams. A poll of around 5000 Native Americans shown that, even when including all sports, the number 1 team that native americans root for is the Washington Redskins and when some of the Native Americans were interviewed, they stated the name and logo as the reason they were fans.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=mooby;1143858]Here's your latest update, maybe [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html?tid=sm_tw"]this article from the WaPo[/URL] will be the last of this. Most likely not though, considering Susan Harjo already denounced the entire article and its (paraphrasing) crappy method of collecting results. I also didn't like how they finished the article with the husband and wife who are split on the issue. With the poll results maybe they should have gathered the husband and 8 of his closest relatives/friends for a more accurate depiction of the numbers.[/quote]

Its no secret who's offended by the skins name...its not Native Americans...its White PC liberals

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

Screw white PC liberals! If Native Americans says the name is OK, I don't really care about anybody else's opinions.

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[quote=metalskins;1143870]Screw white PC liberals! If Native Americans says the name is OK, I don't really care about anybody else's opinions.[/quote]

Exactly!

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

There are a lot of great points that have been posted in this discussion. Bottom line, we just need to stop giving attention to those that want to keep making an issue of the name and then they'll go away. As long as they get attention they'll keep at it.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

I'm ok with going with Teamy McTeamFace

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=MTK;1143893]I'm ok with going with Teamy McTeamFace[/quote]

:food-smil

:laughing2

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

I can understand the reason for the name change this is being tossed around from certain people, and the name its self should be looked at as an honor to the America Indian nationality. Iam sure when the name was chosen, it wasn't to show any disrespect to any American indian tribe or heritage, but it was chosen for the "nickname" of their heritage. Today's world is all about change what was then should be changed to something else. If the name is ordered by law to change the team name I have no complaints, but as long as the team colors and "concept" of the American indian heritage is kept, i'll be happy. As for a name change, Maybe the Warriors or maybe the Tribe ?

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

IF, the name ever must change (which would be ridiculous), they ought to just change it to a specific tribe name or something, that way logo and everything can stay the same. There's too much risk in a big change because I'm sure you would have a good portion of fans check out because they'd be upset.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

There's no way the name would change without the logo also changing.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

For me there are a handful of important arguments against keeping the name:
1) The vast, VAST majority of Native Americans either don't mind it or would be OFFENDED if it was changed. The one "study" that said some 75% of a tribe in California was offended ended up being some kind of propaganda to tweak the numbers for argument. Numerous surveys of thousands of Native Americans say otherwise.

2) Just how many people need to be offended for something to change? 1? 1000? The other part of this argument that just straight pisses me off are the people who suddenly are fighting for the cause. A bunch of Caucasian reporters suddenly care because it makes them feel better about themselves? Yay for you.

3) I typically would identify as liberal, but this is when political correctness is getting a little insane. If the name changes, how far does this go?

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/im-dropping-my-protest-of-washingtons-football-team-name/2016/05/19/b09e8e7e-1cfe-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html[/url]

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=MTK;1143915][url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/im-dropping-my-protest-of-washingtons-football-team-name/2016/05/19/b09e8e7e-1cfe-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html[/url][/quote]

This was well written and well thought out. Kudos for level headed thinking and reconsidering one's own views in light of fresh information.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

See, all we have to do is conduct the poll after we win a division!

But seriously, I have always thought of the name with reverence and pride.
I personally have never used it or meant it in a derogatory sense.

So for a few PC apologists to come by after 45 years of fandom to tell me it's now a forbidden word.... they can BITE ME.

if they really want a battle, how about they go clean up the language in some rap songs...talk about offensive!!!


HAIL to the REDSKINS - Long may it ring!

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=dbrown;1143912]IF, the name ever must change (which would be ridiculous), they ought to just change it to a specific tribe name or something, that way logo and everything can stay the same. [B]There's too much risk in a big change because I'm sure you would have a good portion of fans check out because they'd be upset.[/B][/quote]

Wrong! Nobody is checking out because of a name change.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

If the team is ever forced to drop the name Redskins, I favor the idea proposed here that the team simply go with Washington and no nickname because, well, **** the extremist PC bastards.

The PC crowd are a bunch of hypocrites anyway. They do not respect all people and avoid offending them. In fact, they use language to denigrate huge segments of the people. For example, white men:

They call women "Women".
They call minority men "Men".
They call minority women "Women of Color".
They call white men "white [U]males[/U]".

So, they use the word "males" to set white men apart from their brothers and sisters as if white men were another, lesser species. I say that because we all use the term "male" when referring to other species. All males of our species were called "men" until radical feminist propagandists came along and started using the term "white male" to alienate and denigrate white men.

Today, I hear many young white men referring to themselves as "white males". They have been brainwashed into putting themselves down and they don't even realize it. Yet I'm offended by the term, so I'd like the hypocritical liberal press to either stop using it or to STFU about the nickname "Redskins".

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

[quote=Schneed10;1143918]This was well written and well thought out. Kudos for level headed thinking and reconsidering one's own views in light of fresh information.[/quote]

It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong....especially when you first make a big public stance on it. I have always had a very high opinion of Native American's and in a way, wish I could have experienced that way of life prior to Europeans...I am 50 and have been a Redskins fan all my life. In my youth, we would play cowboys and indians. On TV, the cowboys were good and the indians were bad...but on the playground, in the DC area, we all fought over who got to be the indians. Redskins team positive influence? of course!
We all love the Redskins name...but more importantly, what it represents...in a way...it represents the innocent, the misunderstood, the mistreated....and as a kid we could all relate to that. We wanted the underdog to win!
Think of Clark Kent, misunderstood with those who thought we was a little guy and forgotten...in reality, he was Superman. There are also religious characters that give us the same lesson. So....when you are disrespected and put down, you need to understand you are much greater than what the world says of you. I love the concept of supporting a people that were mistreated, honorable and somewhat forgotten. Someone's got to do it for them. They deserve HIGH HONOR! Hail to the Redskins! and Hail to our original True Americans!! You deserve better than we've given you for the last 500 years!

I honestly think we should honor different tribes at all halftime shows....unfortunately, cynics would see this as "selling-out" or Snyder "buying' loyalty. But, we should really teach our children what has happened and educate our fan base to give high honor.

Also, please note, the indian on the helmet is essentially the same as on the US govt issued buffalo nickle at the time the redskins name was created...there was nothing but honor associated to that....and "red"skins was selected (after braves) primarily since it was now associated to the boston "red"socks playing in the same stadium....it made a ton of sense and had double meaning...and perhaps saved a ton of branding money to not have to change colors for the 2 teams. No one really knows the full detail, and I may have a couple items wrong...but knowing the history certainly helps.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

Yeah as really need to be creative over the name should it changed.

Re: Breaking News on team name
 

Great article. Still unsure why he won't use the name (did he explain?)...