Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=MTK;1143784]A little clarity regarding the cap, aka we don't need to cut Garçon.

According to [url=http://www.OvertheCap.com]Over the Cap - NFL Salary Cap, Player Contracts, and Related News and Analysis[/url] the Redskins had $1.2 million in 2016 cap space prior to the Roberts move. If the June 1 designation was used, at the start of next month they will gain the $4 million from Roberts. They already are slated to add $8 million in cap space due to the release of Chris Culliver with a June 1 designation. That will send them into the summer with $13.2 million in cap space.

[url=http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/redskins-contract-roberts-went-wrong-beginning]Redskins contract with Roberts went wrong from the beginning | CSN Mid-Atlantic[/url][/quote]



My statement was in the opinion if Doctson did very well in training camp and came in with the #2 spot in hand (or close to it). Would you pay a #3 WR 10million in cap? I surely wouldn't. I'd cut and use that carry over to help sign Kirk next year to a long term deal. That's the point, not if we have the cap space, but whether we should carry that unused space of his into next season. That would be shaving 8 mil off the cap this season, and carry that 8 mil (plus his contract coming off the books) into next season. Makes very nice if you have to sign a QB to a hefty contract. It's not like we're running a shortage of playmakers. I think I look at the cap much differently than many of you all. Am I suggesting cutting Garcon because he's worthless? Absolutely not. Am I suggesting we save some cap to carry over into next season. Most definitely. Mind you, this is all with the notion that our other WRs step up in camp.

It's not that of a far fetched idea or notion.

Re: Redskins release wrote Andre Roberts
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1143821]But where are you going to spend 8 mil this season? Saving 8 mil on a contract is nice, but we arent signing anyone else for 8 mil a year unless you are talking an extension for Djax or Cousins. Gallete wont be signed long term till we see what he can do. Doesnt make any sense to cut Pierre this season.[/quote]

You don't have to spend it. You can carry any unused cap space into next season. You guys realize you can do this now with the new CBA right? Why wouldn't you carry that 8mil of unused space into a season knowing you potentially have to sign a mega contract to your QB.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=Schneed10;1143811]If you think Garcon should be gone then you don't understand football, injuries, or depth. Or basically anything.[/quote]


Give me a fucking break. I realize many of the arm chair GMs here know it all, but I had the same shit thrown at me in regards to trading a shit load of picks for RG3. Guess who was wrong on that? Not me. You're acting like that Garcon and Djax are our only two weapons. In which case, I might agree with you. However, that's not the case. We have Davis, Reed, Doctson and Crowder. Just because I would rather carry over that unused cap doesn't make me ignorant to football, injuries or depth. It's a gamble. One I'd be willing to take. Because come next year, you might just be hating it if KC blows up. Then you'll be wanting that cap to help gobble up some of that 60+mil guaranteed he'll command.


For the record, I'm not suggesting we do cut him, just it very well could be an option for the Redskins come the end of training camp. It wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1143837]Give me a fucking break. I realize many of the arm chair GMs here know it all, but I had the same shit thrown at me in regards to trading a shit load of picks for RG3. Guess who was wrong on that? Not me. You're acting like that Garcon and Djax are our only two weapons. In which case, I might agree with you. However, that's not the case. We have Davis, Reed, Doctson and Crowder. Just because I would rather carry over that unused cap doesn't make me ignorant to football, injuries or depth. It's a gamble. One I'd be willing to take. Because come next year, you might just be hating it if KC blows up. Then you'll be wanting that cap to help gobble up some of that 60+mil guaranteed he'll command.


For the record, I'm not suggesting we do cut him, just it very well could be an option for the Redskins come the end of training camp. It wouldn't surprise me one bit.[/quote]

My issue with cutting him is there is no benefit right now, we dont know what will happen with Doctson, we have never been a team that has been hurting in the salary cap tomorrow, and either he or Jackson will be gone next season so just let it go one more season.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1143837]Give me a fucking break. I realize many of the arm chair GMs here know it all, but I had the same shit thrown at me in regards to trading a shit load of picks for RG3. Guess who was wrong on that? Not me. You're acting like that Garcon and Djax are our only two weapons. In which case, I might agree with you. However, that's not the case. We have Davis, Reed, Doctson and Crowder. Just because I would rather carry over that unused cap doesn't make me ignorant to football, injuries or depth. It's a gamble. One I'd be willing to take. Because come next year, you might just be hating it if KC blows up. Then you'll be wanting that cap to help gobble up some of that 60+mil guaranteed he'll command.


For the record, I'm not suggesting we do cut him, just it very well could be an option for the Redskins come the end of training camp. It wouldn't surprise me one bit.[/quote]

The only way carrying over Garcon's cap space makes any sense at all is if you think we'll have to cut a valuable player next year in order to make room for Cousins's contract.

And if you think we need to make such a cut, then you haven't looked at our cap situation next year.

Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

I'll say it for you Schneed, cutting Garçon would be retarded. It would create a significant hole regarding our WR depth. DJ isn't exactly the most reliable health wise, so he goes down and we have to rely on a rookie as the go to guy? Dumb.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=MTK;1143856]I'll say it for you Schneed, cutting Garçon would be retarded. It would create a significant hole regarding our WR depth. DJ isn't exactly the most reliable health wise, so he goes down and we have to rely on a rookie as the go to guy? Dumb.[/quote]

Exactly.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=MTK;1143856]I'll say it for you Schneed, cutting Garçon would be retarded. It would create a significant hole regarding our WR depth. DJ isn't exactly the most reliable health wise, so he goes down and we have to rely on a rookie as the go to guy? Dumb.[/quote]

This. Worst case scenario they cut Garcon, D.Jax gets injured (which I feel is a 50/50 proposition every year) and all of a sudden we go from having 2 good starting wideouts to starting Doctson and Crowder every game.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

Just remember how thin we were at tight end last year. No way it would make sense cutting Garçon this year. Next year, probably.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=metalskins;1143871]Just remember how thin we were at tight end last year. No way it would make sense cutting Garçon this year. Next year, probably.[/quote]

Garcon's contract ends this year, I doubt they renew it next year.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

We finally have a deep receiving corp.. and a QB.....and a decent O-line.
Why not take it out for a test drive and clean out the fluorocarbons?

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=Schneed10;1143851]The only way carrying over Garcon's cap space makes any sense at all is if you think we'll have to cut a valuable player next year in order to make room for Cousins's contract.

And if you think we need to make such a cut, then you haven't looked at our cap situation next year.[/quote]

It's more of the notion if the emergence of Doctson/Crowder make him expendable. I like Garcon, but I'm a numbers kind of guy. I think salary caps eventually come to bite teams in the ass, especially if they have QBs who hamper their cap. The Ravens and Saints were at the mercy of their QBs because of the shit contracts they signed with made for bloated cap figures later on causing them to have to restructure them, which in turn gives them more money and kicks that cap can down the road. I don't want this team in that situation when we have a good core together.

I think Garcon's talent will have to be head and shoulders above Doctson/Crowder to justify a 10mil cap. Players have been cut for much much less. I'm fine either way to be honest with you. I have no qualms with keeping or cutting Garcon. To me, he's just too inconsistent for it to matter to me. The fact that DJ can't stay healthy will most likely make this a moot point anyway.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1143874][B]It's more of the notion if the emergence of Doctson/Crowder make him expendable.[/B] I like Garcon, but I'm a numbers kind of guy. I think salary caps eventually come to bite teams in the ass, especially if they have QBs who hamper their cap. The Ravens and Saints were at the mercy of their QBs because of the shit contracts they signed with made for bloated cap figures later on causing them to have to restructure them, which in turn gives them more money and kicks that cap can down the road. I don't want this team in that situation when we have a good core together.

I think Garcon's talent will have to be head and shoulders above Doctson/Crowder to justify a 10mil cap. Players have been cut for much much less. I'm fine either way to be honest with you. I have no qualms with keeping or cutting Garcon. To me, he's just too inconsistent for it to matter to me. The fact that DJ can't stay healthy will most likely make this a moot point anyway.[/quote]

I kind of stopped reading at the first sentence. If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass when he hops.

I'm not interested in taking a chance on depth at WR when we don't need Garcon's cap space carrying over into 2017.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=Schneed10;1143875]I kind of stopped reading at the first sentence. If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass when he hops.

I'm not interested in taking a chance on depth at WR when we don't need Garcon's cap space carrying over into 2017.[/quote]

I did say it was a gamble. :joecool: :laughing-

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=MTK;1143856]I'll say it for you Schneed, cutting Garçon would be retarded. It would create a significant hole regarding our WR depth. DJ isn't exactly the most reliable health wise, so he goes down and we have to rely on a rookie as the go to guy? Dumb.[/quote]

What has happened to me. Have I gone soft? Am I becoming too PC?

Well said.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

Bold prediction time, next year we re-sign Garçon and let Jackson walk. Doctson will be the playmaker with his leaping ability and crazy catch radius.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=MTK;1143892]Bold prediction time, next year we re-sign Garçon and let Jackson walk. Doctson will be the playmaker with his leaping ability and crazy catch radius.[/quote]

That is bold. I'd be fine with re-signing him at a much lower number. Doctson is definitely that explosive element we're looking for to replace Djax. Unlike Djax, Doctson is going to be able to leap over DBs for those big plays. Djax relies on his speed alone, which isn't enough at times.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

It's interesting to me that as between our 3 leading receivers and now Doctson, we really have the 4 paradigmatic receiving types covered:

1. speedster -- DJax
2. physical, possession receiver -- Garcon
3. shifty slot guy -- Crowder
4. tall target w/ big catch radius -- Doctson

That pretty much covers it (and I am not even mentioning our TEs here which obviously are important). We know the first 3 WRs above can excel in those roles as they've proved it already; Doctson certainly looks like he has great potential. Hard to think of any team with WRs that can be all of these things.

Folks raised the good question re: how long we'll be able to keep them together because of cap concerns -- and it may be just this year in the absence of some serious re-structuring/reductions. But it sure would be great to have this WR corps together for a while and see what they can do -- it will be a nightmare for opposing DBs as long as Cousins has a little time to throw. If we do this 4 WR set, how do you really cover this?

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

we could resign both garcon and DJ next year, i just don't think it's likely unless we really have nothing better to do with the money. we'll see how the year goes though.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

If d jax can stay healthy and play 16 games...watch the fuck out. Contract year, u know he is ready to ball.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

to start...I'm a BIG Garcon fan, cause the guys brings it every week.

Garcon plays tough EVERY Week...has he even missed a game with us?

He has proven he can be a top target (!00+ catches) & he has shown he can share the load without creating drama or malcontent.

Cutting him could save money, but ethically, it would send the wrong message to fans & prospective players. Garcon by all accounts works hard, shows up for every activity/practice/game. He even steps in for teammates when he feels it's necessary.

Simply, he is a model teammate and a true professional- and he's a pretty reliable receiver. In Scott-speak..."he's a football player & I'm looking for football players"

If those skills don't diminish between now and camp, how could you ever justify cutting him?

I really feel that Scott McL would look like a two-faced negotiator if he took that route, which would damage us in current and future negotiations.

I get the whole business side of this, but if we need cap space, there are better choices.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=Chico23231;1143903]If d jax can stay healthy and play 16 games...watch the fuck out. Contract year, u know he is ready to ball.[/quote]

He's even been working out at Redskins Park, so you know he's serious.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/25131/dont-swap-out-pierre-garcon-for-josh-doctson-just-yet]Don't swap out Pierre Garcon for Josh Doctson just yet - Washington Redskins Blog- ESPN[/url]

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=MTK;1143925][url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/25131/dont-swap-out-pierre-garcon-for-josh-doctson-just-yet]Don't swap out Pierre Garcon for Josh Doctson just yet - Washington Redskins Blog- ESPN[/url][/quote]

Keim nailing it again.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=Chico23231;1143926]Keim nailing it again.[/quote]

Yes, I get it. Garcon = good teammate, hard worker, blocks well, and tough.

BUT, everyone has a price, and older high priced vet in a position of depth == wouldn't put a trade past Scotty McC. Good organizations seem to trade good players like this for value. Like - what would the Steelers give us for Garcon with their WR2 suspended? Again -- would love to keep him this year and there's a 99% chance he's here -- but there are only so many balls to go around and we'd probably be fine w Djax/Doctson/Crowder/Reed/V.Davis this year anyway.

NEXT year, we may need *more* WR depth.. We'd have Doctson / Crowder, but can DJax or Garcon be a good WR2 at age 31? Not confident yet in Grant or Ross.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

Cutting Garcon just to save cap space (when you don't really need to cut cap space) doesn't make much sense to me. We aren't playing Madden, intangibles (hard-working, tough, good teammate, possibly a mentor) matter in the locker room and on the field. Team chemistry is built through having the right kind of players on the field and showing loyalty to those who "earn it" every day. Being loyal to players, like Garcon, shows a committment to your players and to winning football games. Management earns the trust of it's players this way and that helps create "buy in" to what the GM and coaches are trying to do. Imagine a team full of disgruntled player who question every move management makes or the coaching philosophy. Veteran players have a huge influence in the locker room, if you have 5-6 vets questioning everything they tend to miss their assignments on game day or take plays off during the game. You may not think cutting Garcon can have THIS particular kind of domino effect on a team, but I definitely believe it can.

The Skins finally have a football guy in charge and I love it.

HTTR!!

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

<sigh> Someone please end this.

Roberts being cut was a given.

Garcon and DJax are not going anywhere [I][B]this[/B] [/I]year.

[I][B]At this point[/B][/I], cutting Garcon makes no sense on any level.

Move along, nothing more to see here.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=ethat001;1143993]Yes, I get it. Garcon = good teammate, hard worker, blocks well, and tough.

BUT, everyone has a price, and older high priced vet in a position of depth == wouldn't put a trade past Scotty McC. Good organizations seem to trade good players like this for value. Like - what would the Steelers give us for Garcon with their WR2 suspended? Again -- would love to keep him this year and there's a 99% chance he's here -- but there are only so many balls to go around and we'd probably be fine w Djax/Doctson/Crowder/Reed/V.Davis this year anyway.

NEXT year, we may need *more* WR depth.. We'd have Doctson / Crowder, but [B]can DJax or Garcon be a good WR2 at age 31?[/B] Not confident yet in Grant or Ross.[/quote]

I certainly think so...with DJax its only the injuries that hold him back. I think Garcon could be like a Bolden type, possession, tough catches in traffic, strong...

I think having a stable of young WRs Grant, Doctson, Crowder and Ross is a great thing. Also Diggs from Richmond (6-4) and the WR Maurice (6-3)from Cal as UDFAs were brought in to pressure Grant and Ross. Both these guys can play and they are BIG.

WR is a position of strength.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

By all accounts Doctson will be a very good player for us over the years. But he's a ROOKIE. Even if he has a bang-up camp there's no way you can go into a season counting on a rookie to be an impact starter at a very important position.

And that ignores the most pertinent part - there's no reason to do this from a cap perspective.

This is retarded.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[url=http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/56670/Redskins-WR-DeSean-Jackson-skipping-OTAs-again-this-season/Default.aspx]Redskins WR DeSean Jackson skipping OTAs again this season[/url]

Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

Freak outs to commence in 1, 2, 3 ...

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

Remember when we used to hijack threads that got retarded?

I liked Kate Beckinsale's heyday almost as much as Charlize Theron's heyday. But I don't think either tops Natalie Portman's now.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

Natalie Portman has the body of a 12 year old boy.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1144003]Natalie Portman has the body of a 12 year old boy.[/quote]

Mmmmm, yeah. [dreamy sigh]

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=Schneed10;1144004]Mmmmm, yeah. [dreamy sigh][/quote]

ummm ... okay.

<backing away slowly as Schneed dreamily sighs about 12 year old boy bodies>

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1144005]ummm ... okay.

<backing away slowly as Schneed dreamily sighs about 12 year old boy bodies>[/quote]

Why you gotta back away? You look your best when you're walking away.

[IMG]https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-03/3/16/enhanced/webdr15/enhanced-30705-1457041354-7.png[/IMG]

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

Ummm, no. ... not that there's anything wrong with that.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

But getting back on track with the hijack, obviously you can find less than flattering images of anybody, and I've seen photos where she's frankly pretty flat chested. But then I've seen

[IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2gaE5jfekXI/UQQne_63j7I/AAAAAAAAmvA/cSK0QZCn_rE/s1600/natalie_portman4.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

My how Andre Roberts has changed.

Re: Redskins release WR Andre Roberts
 

[quote=calia;1144009]My how Andre Roberts has changed.[/quote]

Lmfa0