Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[QUOTE=los panda;1169071]i've been conditioned to doubt white rbs over the last several decades.



it seems that for every danny woodhead, there are several toby gerharts.[/QUOTE]



I cannot even think of another one since Riggins besides those two. Lol. Alstott but he was a fb.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1169073]What did he praise him for? Perhaps it was for landing a snappy combination of punches on the face of an innocent young woman whom he and his buddies were harassing and intimidating. I don't want to ever see him in a Redskins uniform.[/QUOTE]



Yeah i do not want that head-case anywhere near our team.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1169085]I really hope we don't take a RB. Backs can always be found in the middle and later rounds.[/quote]

You are correct. RB's and WR's are a dime a dozen. Look at this Years free agency, Adrian Peterson, Desean Jackson, Pierre Garçon.
Every year is the same thing. We got Pierre and Desean for nothing. Why spend a valuable 17th pick on a running back?

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

If foster is there and we don't take him I'll cry, maybe the next ray lewis.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

Pick 17 my thoughts:

I want someone that can come in help the defense day 1.

This draft is supposed to be deep at CB, S and Edge rusher.

I want to help the DL but the only DL prospect that might be worthy of pick 17 has someone questions marks that turn me off. I like McDowell, talented kid, but too many question marks for me and I wouldn't want to force the picks.

The biggest area of weakness in my eyes is the pass defense and the weakest area of the pass coverage more then pass rush although pass rush is always a need. I would want the highest rated CB, S or Edge rusher on the board:

Tre'Davious White CB
Gareon Conley CB
Takkarist McKinley Edge
Haason Reddick ILB/OLB
Derek Barnett Edge

----------------------------------------------------

If the FO knows they can't/won't sign Kirk to a long term deal I want a QB either Watson or Trubisky. Although I like some of the other QBs these are the only QBs I would take at 17.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=30gut;1169299]Pick 17 my thoughts:

I want someone that can come in help the defense day 1.

This draft is supposed to be deep at CB, S and Edge rusher.

I want to help the DL but the only DL prospect that might be worthy of pick 17 has someone questions marks that turn me off. I like McDowell, talented kid, but too many question marks for me and I wouldn't want to force the picks.

The biggest area of weakness in my eyes is the pass defense and the weakest area of the pass coverage more then pass rush although pass rush is always a need. I would want the highest rated CB, S or Edge rusher on the board:

Tre'Davious White CB
Gareon Conley CB
Takkarist McKinley Edge
Haason Reddick ILB/OLB
Derek Barnett Edge

----------------------------------------------------

If the FO knows they can't/won't sign Kirk to a long term deal I want a QB either Watson or Trubisky. Although I like some of the other QBs these are the only QBs I would take at 17.[/quote]

I've asked this before and I'll ask it again. We all know Cleveland needs a QB badly. The only reason they won't take one with the first pick is not one of them is rated that highly and Garrett is too good to pass up. If they were willing to give up their #1 pick for Cousins, who I personally want to keep, and their other #1 or 2nd pick for him, would you make that deal? We get Garrett and possibly Watson. Let Colt play this year while our other 2 learn. If I had any idea wtf Bruce was doing it would help, but I dont. As far as I'm concerned he's messed this up as much as much as possible.

[url=http://was.247sports.com/Bolt/Could-Redskins-draft-the-next-Kirk-Cousins-to-replace-him-52305608]Could Redskins draft the next Kirk Cousins to replace him?[/url]

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=dej733;1169099]Today I was listening to the SiriusXM NFL channel on my way home from work; Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan completed a live two round mock draft. They had the Redskins trading back to the 25th pick of the first round (compensation: 2017 and 2018 3rd round draft picks) and selecting LB Zach Cunningham. In the second round, they had the Skins selecting DL Caleb Brantley.
I would be happy with those draft picks in the first two rounds. McCaffrey, Cook and Fournette were gone before pick 17; trading back was a smart move.[/quote]

Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller completed another two round mock draft on SiriusXM NFL Radio today. They had us selecting Ohio State CB Gareon Conley with our first round pick, then selecting Tennessee RB Alvin Kamara the second round pick. They also had us trading our 2017 5th round pick to the Jets for Sheldon Richardson. If Richardson can stay out of trouble with off the field issues, I like the trade.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=dej733;1169307]Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller completed another two round mock draft on SiriusXM NFL Radio today. They had us selecting Ohio State CB Gareon Conley with our first round pick, then selecting Tennessee RB Alvin Kamara the second round pick. They also had us trading our 2017 5th round pick to the Jets for Sheldon Richardson. If Richardson can stay out of trouble with off the field issues, I like the trade.[/quote]Love Conley. I would be happy w/ Kamar too but don't think he'll have the impact on this squad S compared to DL or Edge rusher.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=30gut;1169299]Pick 17 my thoughts:

I want someone that can come in help the defense day 1.

This draft is supposed to be deep at CB, S and Edge rusher.

I want to help the DL but the only DL prospect that might be worthy of pick 17 has someone questions marks that turn me off. I like McDowell, talented kid, but too many question marks for me and I wouldn't want to force the picks.

The biggest area of weakness in my eyes is the pass defense and the weakest area of the pass coverage more then pass rush although pass rush is always a need. I would want the highest rated CB, S or Edge rusher on the board:

Tre'Davious White CB
Gareon Conley CB
Takkarist McKinley Edge
Haason Reddick ILB/OLB
Derek Barnett Edge

----------------------------------------------------

If the FO knows they can't/won't sign Kirk to a long term deal I want a QB either Watson or Trubisky. Although I like some of the other QBs these are the only QBs I would take at 17.[/quote]


In the first round, if there is a clear-cut choice of BPA then I believe you need to go with the player who could become a star; however, if it is close between two players, then you might want to go with the one who plays a position of greater need.

I believe that the best thing we could do for our team in this draft would be to improve our talent up the middle. By that I mean at NT/DT, ILB, and safety. In FA we signed some help in each of those areas but we need more.

That brings me to the players you mentioned. I think Haason Reddick might well be the BPA at #17 and that meshes with what I think is our primary need on defense, so I'd pick him. In fact, I would pick him over Reuben Foster.

It's never a bad thing to pick a top-notch CB, so I'd have no problem with that.

As for the edge rushers, I think #17 would probably be high for Tak McKinley because he is raw and needs some time to work on his technique with NFL coaches. He is a fast, powerful athlete with a good motor, so he could be very good in time.

I would not draft Barnett at all. He's too slow for me and I don't think he'll be able to beat NFL OT's.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=dej733;1169307]Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller completed another two round mock draft on SiriusXM NFL Radio today. They had us selecting Ohio State CB Gareon Conley with our first round pick, then selecting Tennessee RB Alvin Kamara the second round pick. [B]They also had us trading our 2017 5th round pick to the Jets for Sheldon Richardson. If Richardson can stay out of trouble with off the field issues, I like the trade.[/B][/quote]

I'd make that trade, as well. We need to understand that Richardson is in a contract year and would probably be a rental. That's OK because he should be motivated to have a great season and if he becomes a problem for the team they can simply cut him.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1169324]...I believe that the best thing we could do for our team in this draft would be to improve our talent up the middle. By that I mean at NT/DT, ILB, and safety. In FA we signed some help in each of those areas but we need more.[/quote]I think the best way to improve the defense are with pass coverage and pass rush. To me that means better CB play and an edge rusher opposite Kerrigan in nickel.

[quote]That brings me to the players you mentioned. I think Haason Reddick might well be the BPA at #17 and that meshes with what I think is our primary need on defense, so I'd pick him. In fact, I would pick him over Reuben Foster.[/quote]Me too. I think Riddick is a stud and is going to be a stud in the NFL. Good size, great movement ability, great speed and can pass rush.



[quote]As for the edge rushers, I think #17 would probably be high for Tak McKinley because he is raw and needs some time to work on his technique with NFL coaches. He is a fast, powerful athlete with a good motor, so he could be very good in time.[/quote]I agree 17 is high for Tak based on his production and lack of polish as a rusher. But when you're 6'2-250 and athletic w/ a 4.59-40 they tend to get pushed up the draft.

[quote]I would not draft Barnett at all. He's too slow for me and I don't think he'll be able to beat NFL OT's.[/quote]Barnett is the opposite of Takk in that he's more polished and more productive but not as athletic. Barnett comes in to the league will a more complete passing rushing game and his tape backs it up.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

FYI..... Richardson's salary is $8 million. They would probably need to make a couple cuts to create room.

McKinley is injured and may not be ready for training camp or the start of the season.

[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/19920/takkarist-mckinleys-injury-could-give-linebacker-needy-colts-one-less-option-in-first-round]Takkarist McKinley injury bad news for LB-needy Indianapolis Colts - Indianapolis Colts Blog- ESPN[/url]

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=30gut;1169352]Barnett is the opposite of Takk in that he's more polished and more productive but not as athletic. Barnett comes in to the league will a more complete passing rushing game and his tape backs it up.[/quote]

There's no doubt in my mind that Barnett is the better player right now. The problem I have with Barnett is my need for speed. I have no use for any edge player who can't run better than a 4.8 forty.

What do you think of the Skins drafting Carl Lawson at #17? He has a great burst, he can rush inside as well as outside, and he's good against the run. He was very productive in college against top competition.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1169363]There's no doubt in my mind that Barnett is the better player right now. The problem I have with Barnett is my need for speed. I have no use for any edge player who can't run better than a 4.8 forty.

What do you think of the Skins drafting Carl Lawson at #17? He has a great burst, he can rush inside as well as outside, and he's good against the run. He was very productive in college against top competition.[/quote] I like Carl Lawson he was very productive this year up there with Derek Barnett. Lawson injury history will knock him down his draft grade. I like him just not a 17.

Kerrigan ran a 4.79 there's some good defensive ends that don't run sub 4.8. Derek Barnett's career production is up there with Myles Garrett comma dude broke Reggie White sack record at Tennessee. Derek Barnett is a Bola

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

i really hope we trade down, so much gravy in the 25-50 range.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=los panda;1169370]i really hope we trade down, so much gravy in the 25-50 range.[/quote]

I agree 100%..... 5 picks in the first 4 rounds is not enough, there are so many immediate needs.... 2/3 DL - 1 OLB - 1 ILB - 1 CB - 1 S on defense

on offense 1 WR - 1 RB - 1 G - 1 C

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1169324]In the first round, if there is a clear-cut choice of BPA then I believe you need to go with the player who could become a star; however, if it is close between two players, then you might want to go with the one who plays a position of greater need.

I believe that the best thing we could do for our team in this draft would be to improve our talent up the middle. By that I mean at NT/DT, ILB, and safety. In FA we signed some help in each of those areas but we need more.

That brings me to the players you mentioned. I think Haason Reddick might well be the BPA at #17 and that meshes with what I think is our primary need on defense, so I'd pick him. In fact, I would pick him over Reuben Foster.

It's never a bad thing to pick a top-notch CB, so I'd have no problem with that.

As for the edge rushers, I think #17 would probably be high for Tak McKinley because he is raw and needs some time to work on his technique with NFL coaches. He is a fast, powerful athlete with a good motor, so he could be very good in time.

I would not draft Barnett at all. He's too slow for me and I don't think he'll be able to beat NFL OT's.[/quote]

KI...you're hired. Pack your gear & get to Redskin Park A.S.A.P.

Just get me a C or Guard somewhere in the top 5 picks and you're golden!

Seriously, though, our biggest weakness is in the middle of the D. If we can focus on improving that, I think we're back in the playoffs and fighting for the division again.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Bangee7;1169372][B]KI...you're hired. Pack your gear & get to Redskin Park A.S.A.P.[/B]

Just get me a C or Guard somewhere in the top 5 picks and you're golden!

Seriously, though, our biggest weakness is in the middle of the D. If we can focus on improving that, I think we're back in the playoffs and fighting for the division again.[/quote]

Thanks for the compliment. I think I can control my drinking problem long enough to get through the draft.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1169324]In the first round, if there is a clear-cut choice of BPA then I believe you need to go with the player who could become a star; however, if it is close between two players, then you might want to go with the one who plays a position of greater need.[/quote]I think I get what you mean but the concept of 'the player who could become a star' is subjective. I might think Reddick has star potential someone else might think Peppers etc.

[quote]I believe that the best thing we could do for our team in this draft would be to improve our talent up the middle. By that I mean at NT/DT, ILB, and safety. In FA we signed some help in each of those areas but we need more.[/quote]I def agree we need to improve up the middle. That's always a solid way to approach a defense. Through FA we stabilized the ILBs and added 1 solid safety. That leaves 34 DE that can also play 3-tech in nickel.

But for me the biggest area we need to address is pass defense.
Which means coverage and pass rush. Thus my 3 high priority areas to address are: CB, Edge and 5-tech/3-tech.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=30gut;1169429]I think I get what you mean but the concept of 'the player who could become a star' is subjective. I might think Reddick has star potential someone else might think Peppers etc.

I def agree we need to improve up the middle. That's always a solid way to approach a defense. Through FA we stabilized the ILBs and added 1 solid safety. That leaves 34 DE that can also play 3-tech in nickel.

But for me the biggest area we need to address is pass defense.
Which means coverage and pass rush. Thus my 3 high priority areas to address are: CB, Edge and 5-tech/3-tech.[/quote]

No problem. Let's see, I'll give you CB Marion Humphrey in the first, DT Caleb Brantley in the second, and OLB Trey Hendrickson in the third.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1169431]No problem. Let's see, I'll give you CB Marion Humphrey in the first, DT Caleb Brantley in the second, and OLB Trey Hendrickson in the third.[/quote] Caleb Brantley and Marlon Humphrey wouldn't be my first choices at DT or CB but those are good selections. I don't know anything about Trey Hendrickson but I was targeting tarell Basham Jordan Willis Tim Williams Ryan Anderson daeshon Hall TJ Watt the guy with the really long name was really tall players like that

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

I don't get the hype with McCaffrey. If he falls to us why would we take him? We already have a pretty good player that plays the 3rd down spot in Thompson. I don't see McCaffrey coming in and being better than him. Plus he's not an every down player. Your first round pick can not be a role player. To me he's a mid rounder, maybe in the 4th round. But no way is he a first round player.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

This arrogant attitude is why the Redskins will need 10 years to rebuild .

I'm gonna take the best player available, and if that serves your needs, that's a bonus" #Redskins Scott Campbell. Sorry @funnydanny

How did the BPA Josh Doctson workout ? even if he was healthy he was not going to play much..... the future is now, they cannot afford to use high picks on positions with depth.....unfortunately, they need help at almost every position

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1169590]This arrogant attitude is why the Redskins will need 10 years to rebuild .

I'm gonna take the best player available, and if that serves your needs, that's a bonus" #Redskins Scott Campbell. Sorry @funnydanny

How did the BPA Josh Doctson workout ? even if he was healthy he was not going to play much..... the future is now, they cannot afford to use high picks on positions with depth.....unfortunately, they need help at almost every position[/quote]

For the people who dislike the Docston pick, let's revisit this after the season ends.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1169591]For the people who dislike the Docston pick, let's revisit this after the season ends.[/quote]

Doctson could be a superstar, however he was not going to help in 2016. The slow building through the draft is not working. How did the BPA help them last year ? They needed defensive help in 2016 and got almost none.

[B][COLOR="Red"]corrected 2016[/COLOR][/B]

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1169592]Doctson could be a superstar, however he was not going to help in 2017. The slow building through the draft is not working. How did the BPA help them last year ? They needed defensive help in 2016 and got almost none.[/quote]

If you think someone is a top 10 player and he's available at your pick in the 20s you take him. And he would have played last year if healthy, especially in the red zone.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1169590]This arrogant attitude is why the Redskins will need 10 years to rebuild .

I'm gonna take the best player available, and if that serves your needs, that's a bonus" #Redskins Scott Campbell. Sorry @funnydanny

How did the BPA Josh Doctson workout ? even if he was healthy he was not going to play much..... the future is now, they cannot afford to use high picks on positions with depth.....unfortunately, they need help at almost every position[/quote]

Actually I'm kinda relieved becuase I think the impact of McC has had a lasting impression on Scott Campbell. Followed his board in free agency and now this statement...give him the gm.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1169592]Doctson could be a superstar, however he was not going to help in 2017. The slow building through the draft is not working. How did the BPA help them last year ? They needed defensive help in 2016 and got almost none.[/quote]

If he becomes a superstar then the pick was well worth the wait and he will help in 2017.

Also it is working becuase the team is no longer a bottom feeder, like in 13 and 14. There are several drafted players tbat are contributing.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

Have to give Doctson at least one more year before the moans saying bust come out, but to be honest I think they should draft a WR in the mid to late rounds. I am wondering if the kid from Northwestern will be around then. He might be worth a shot as he was the best in the Big Ten.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=FlyerSkin;1169606]Have to give Doctson at least one more year before the moans saying bust come out, but to be honest I think they should draft a WR in the mid to late rounds. I am wondering if the kid from Northwestern will be around then. He might be worth a shot as he was the best in the Big Ten.[/quote]

WR and CB seem to be deep in mid round talent. I'd be surprised if we don't draft at least one of each.

As far as Doctson, we'll see how he pans out, but drafting him in the first would have been a strong pick if he had played last year. So what if he wouldn't have been at a position of need? It was clearly going to become a position of need in one season given the age and contract status of our top 2 WRs. It would have worked well to have him get some experience before becoming the number 1 or 2 WR. It didn't work out that way, obviously. That said, if you're sitting in the middle of the first, all the top tier talent at a position of need is gone, no one is willing to trade back, and you have a player on the board that you believe is a top 10 talent that may have an injury risk, it's probably not a bad plan to pick them because even if they need a season to get healthy they can still be a star player for you long term. Would you rather have an A+ talent for 10 years that has to take the first year off, or a B+ talent in a current position of need that will play right away, but has reached their ceiling? I think you make the argument either way, but if your building a team for the long term, You only get so many shots at A+ talent, and you have to take them when you can. Almost 50% of 1st rounders bust, but if you always mitigate that risk by trading back, you will always have really good players but no elite players. You need some elite players to win in this league. So, sometimes you need to flip that coin.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1169596]If he becomes a superstar then the pick was well worth the wait and he will help in 2017.

[B][COLOR="Red"]Also it is working becuase the team is no longer a bottom feeder,[/COLOR][/B] like in 13 and 14. There are several drafted players tbat are contributing.[/quote]

Such low standards. Are they ever going to the Superbowl again ?

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

With the 17th pick I want defense, we need the help. Please
don't pick McCaffrey.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

Bitching about Doctson not being a superstar in year one is like complaining about not getting laid on a first date.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=MTK;1169611]Bitching about Doctson not being a superstar in year one is like complaining about not getting laid on a first date.[/quote]

Excellent analogy.

Bitching about Doctson's lack of performance in year one also exposes the shortsightedness of the mindset around need-based drafting.

Moaning draft bust after one year of a five year rookie contract makes no sense.

When you hit on players in the draft you get them under cheap contracts for 4 or 5 years. Never limit your opportunity to find these salary cap bargains based on position need. Take them wherever you can get them, and fill your needs in free agency.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

I hope we order a Ruben on Thursday.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

The slow rebuilding plan is working great, 3 playoff wins in the last 24 years. [B]The future is now.[/B] It is unlikely KC will be here next year, as well as other key members of the team. This wait until next year strategy is not working.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Washington_Redskins_seasons[/url]

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1169615]The slow rebuilding plan is working great, 3 playoff wins in the last 24 years. [B]The future is now.[/B] It is unlikely KC will be here next year, as well as other key members of the team. This wait until next year strategy is not working.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Washington_Redskins_seasons[/url][/quote]

dude calm down

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=MTK;1169611]Bitching about Doctson not being a superstar in year one is like complaining about not getting laid on a first date.[/quote]

Funny as hell!!!! Still, I would like to get that
Northwestern wideout. He was very good. If
Josh stays healthy and we got him, we would be the deepest we corp in the entire league.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=FlyerSkin;1169619]Funny as hell!!!! Still, I would like to get that
Northwestern wideout. He was very good. If
Josh stays healthy and we got him, we would be the deepest we corp in the entire league.[/quote]

As long as we don't have the thinnest front 7, I'm good with that.

While BPA is my overarching philosophy, I wouldn't put a high pick into a position that's already extremely deep. I'm not taking an offensive tackle with my 1st rounder, for example, even if an OT is BPA at the time.

Re: With the 17 pick, the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Schneed10;1169620]As long as we don't have the thinnest front 7, I'm good with that.

While BPA is my overarching philosophy, I wouldn't put a high pick into a position that's already extremely deep. I'm not taking an offensive tackle with my 1st rounder, for example, even if an OT is BPA at the time.[/quote]

Completely agree. Then you try to trade down if you can. We knew Garcon and Jackson wouldn't be back. Whoever you pick can get hurt. If he's healthy this year I think he's gonna shine and don't regret the pick at all. I think Pryor is gonna be good but what if he isn't and we didn't draft Doctson?