Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;770083]I think they both are still damn good receivers when in a halfway decent situation, yes. So they aren't being used or targeted much where they are right now....

R. Moss last year - 83 catches, 1,264 yds, 13 TDs. Please save any "he's a year older" or "that was with Brady" stuff... Those numbers mean he can still get it done in the right situation. Bottom line... Do I think he's better than Anthony Armstrong as a #2 receiver? ... umm, yes.

Housh - A minimum of 904 yds receiving per season over the past 6 years with sub-par QBs (IMO). If you want to try and tell me that Housh is a worse option than Roydell Williams or Joey Galloway at the #3 or slot position... please go ahead.

You, and everyone else, knows what I was getting at... I clearly stated that these guys would help evaluate our QB... I didn't say... "TJ Whoseyourmomma... Championship!"[/quote]Both are better options at the no. 3 receiver than we currently have. But why bring guys in here to play once or twice per offensive series? The difference between Roydell Williams and T.J. Houshmandzadeh in a third down receiver role isn't even a half point per game. But to get that improvement, you have to overpay the receiver by nearly five million, give him a roster spot guarantee, and make him happy in his role.

Changing the team culture doesn't mean overpay a receiver for incredibly limited performance. Sometimes, it's better to save the money and have the lesser performer as the third down receiver. I think this is one of those times.

Having Joey Galloway make this team was ridiculous though.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=mooby;770084]I think Carolina's got the fast track on getting Luck, simply because they have a legit shot at not winning another game the rest of the season and if that happens they've got the first pick. Fox will be gone next season and you can bet that w/e head coach they bring in will be tailored to help Luck become a franchise quarterback. This is what happens when the NFC is consistently the worse conference over the better part of a decade, eventually the balance of power will shift over to the NFC like it did to the AFC after the NFC's dominance over the 80's and 90's.[/quote]Carolina is going to get Luck if he comes out, no doubt. But he's a 21 year old kid who would be passing up a legitimate shot to win the national championship to go first overall in a year where he doesn't even get to read the CBA under which he will sign his contract before he declares. That's a terrible deal for the kid.

His major is architectural design at Stanford. You don't study that for three years to decide to get your degree later. Just saying.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=GTripp0012;770087]Carolina is going to get Luck if he comes out, no doubt. But he's a 21 year old kid who would be passing up a legitimate shot to win the national championship to go first overall in a year where he doesn't even get to read the CBA under which he will sign his contract before he declares. That's a terrible deal for the kid.

His major is architectural design at Stanford. You don't study that for three years to decide to get your degree later. Just saying.[/quote]

Very true. It all depends on Luck coming out no doubt. He seems like a very smart kid, but you never know, he's going to have to make a decision, which is either stay in school to get his degree, or go pro and make a lot of bank as the first overall pick. It just depends on what he wants more. But I have no doubt he'd be the first overall pick if he went out, because both Carolina and Cincy want a franchise quarterback (back in 2005 I never would've envisioned saying that about Cincy lol).

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

I'll predict that Carolina passes on the opportunity to draft Ryan Mallett, taking instead A.J. Green first overall. Mallett gets drafted by the Bengals at no. 2.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Beemnseven;770079]#1: Do you really think going back to a 4-3 with the same players would make that much of a difference? Just line up Carter, AH, Golston, Orakpo along the front four; with Alexander, Fletch, and McIntosh back at LB and we'd be back in the top 10 defensively? I don't. Something happened with this group of players -- and we know that because they still play in 4-3 alignments. It didn't matter what the scheme was.

#2: Okay, so it was a public relations mishap. Shanny said the wrong things. And? So what? Might as well get used to this head coach being especially cryptic about the information he's willing to release.

#3: Point taken. Housh would have been nice. Randy Moss? Ehh. Not so much.

#4: I don't know what sort of trade value McNabb would have been worth even if he played the rest of the season out. He wasn't doing well. No matter what we would have been looking at a 5th - 7th round pick in the best of circumstances.[/quote]

#1: Completely disagree. Name ONE TIME when we had the front 7 you described for an entire game this season. I know when Haynesworth WAS in the game in 4-3 setups he was dominating as always. I don't remember any time where Rak, Haynesworth, Golston, and Carter were on the line at the same time. And you think our defense would be worse than 32nd in the league, which we are?? Allowing 135 rushing yards and 260 passing yards a game while allowing 23.8 points per?? That's 23 more rushing and 53 more passing yards per game compared to last year. We also have allowed the most 10+ play drives in the NFL. As Keyshawn would say... "Come on, man!" I am not saying we'd have been top 10... why are you jumping from 32nd to top 10? I'd be happy with 15th right now. We'll just disagree on that one.

#2: He TWICE fumbled with an excuse. It put a huge dent into the whole "new regime, new attitude... out with dysfunction, in with professionalism." For a guy who expects his players to be stand up, stand behind your work guys... then shouldn't he? If he was disappointed in McNabb's play, just say so... why go with 2-minute offense and cardiac endurance craziness?

#3: Explained in my other post.. Do I think he'd be better than Armstrong... especially when Armstrong is mostly used for deep passes... yes. Just my opinion.

#4: I think if they know he doesn't fit what they want to do and they want to go in a different direction, then you play him... hope he plays well enough over the last 3 games that between the Vikings, Cardinals, Bengals, Panthers, Broncos, Titans, etc there could have been SOME competition to drum up trade value is all I am saying. Evaluate Grossman & Beck? Do you honestly think either will be our starting QB in 2012?

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;770051][URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/17/donovan-mcnabb-very-disappointed-i-strongly-disagree/"]Donovan McNabb “very disappointed,” “I strongly disagree” | ProFootballTalk[/URL][/quote]

Interesting snippet from that article:

[I]Wilbon, who made no pretense of objectivity as he ripped into Shanahan, said that McNabb has no ill will toward [URL="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2450"]Rex Grossman[/URL], who has replaced him as the starter. In fact, [B]Wilbon claims that one of the things McNabb is upset about is that Shanahan waited until after Thursday’s practice to make the move, depriving Grossman of the opportunity to work with the first-string offense on Wednesday and Thursday.[/B][/I]

Gotta agree with DM on that one. If you're gonna make the move, and you supposedly were considering it before last week's game as well, why not just insert Grossman at the start of this week's preparation for Dallas? Was DM so bad in this week of practice that he'd make this switch two days before the game without giving Grossman a full week of snaps with the first team?

Shanahan looks bad.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;770092]#1: Completely disagree. Name ONE TIME when we had the front 7 you described for an entire game this season. I know when Haynesworth WAS in the game in 4-3 setups he was dominating as always. I don't remember any time where Rak, Haynesworth, Golston, and Carter were on the line at the same time. And you think our defense would be worse than 32nd in the league, which we are?? Allowing 135 rushing yards and 260 passing yards a game while allowing 23.8 points per?? That's 23 more rushing and 53 more passing yards per game compared to last year. We also have allowed the most 10+ play drives in the NFL. As Keyshawn would say... "Come on, man!" I am not saying we'd have been top 10... why are you jumping from 32nd to top 10? I'd be happy with 15th right now. We'll just disagree on that one.[/quote]32nd is a really poor estimation of where our defense is right now. It implies that Houston, Jacksonville, Dallas, Denver, and Seattle are better right now on that side of the ball. They aren't.

I'd say, with our injuries and all, we're right about as strong of a defense as New England is. They don't rank very well either. 27th I think, by total yards against. I think that's a good estimation of where our defense is by production.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

I just cant believe the mess ShanaASS has made of skins.I hope Snyder fires him after the season,theres no way anybody could be worse.But with the lockout looming along with ShanaASS's contract dont see it happening.Probably keep Haslett also.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;770083]I think they both are still damn good receivers when in a halfway decent situation, yes. So they aren't being used or targeted much where they are right now....

R. Moss last year - 83 catches, 1,264 yds, 13 TDs. Please save any "he's a year older" or "that was with Brady" stuff... Those numbers mean he can still get it done in the right situation. Bottom line... Do I think he's better than Anthony Armstrong as a #2 receiver? ... umm, yes.

Housh - A minimum of 904 yds receiving per season over the past 6 years with sub-par QBs (IMO). If you want to try and tell me that Housh is a worse option than Roydell Williams or Joey Galloway at the #3 or slot position... please go ahead.

You, and everyone else, knows what I was getting at... I clearly stated that these guys would help evaluate our QB... I didn't say... "TJ Whoseyourmomma... Championship!"[/quote]

The receiving corps is not the problem here. If McNabb was the QB we thought he was we would easily be putting up more then 20 points a game. The receivers aren't the ones that throwing behind themselves or throwing balls into the dirt nor are they throwing into traffic at inopportune times. They also aren't overthrowing or under throwing themselves on potential big plays.

Face it we're not going to have an offensive line made up of 5 first and second round picks nor are we going to be able to compliment them with two 1,000 yard receivers and a pro bowl tight end. Moss, Armstrong, Cooley, Davis is a more then suitable receiving corps for a pro bowl QB. Certainly better than most of the groups McNabb played with during his pro bowl years in Philly.

Who is Tom Brady's best receiver? Dieon Branch? What about Peyton Manning outside of Reggie Wayne these days? Piere Garcon? And by the way where's Peytons offensive line made up of first and second round picks?

Big Ben is making the Steelers offense go with Mike Wallace as the main option. His other two options an injury prone Heath Miller (who's not as good as Cooley) and an aging Hines Ward. His offensive line is made up of a 1st round rookie, a 2nd round pick (Flozell Adams), a 5th round pick, a 6th round pick, and a 24 year old undrafted free agent.

Who's Matt Cassel throwing to after Dwayne Bowe? Tony Moeaki? By the way Cassel is currently being protected by three guys who were undrafted free agents (ages 33, 37, and 29), a fifth round pick and one first round pick (a converted guard playing LT).

Matt Ryan only has Roddy White and Tony Gonzalez (not as good as Cooley these days) to throw to. Matt Jenkins is decent but even if he had played in all 16 games he would still have less yards then our own Anthony Armstrong. His line, an injury prone first round LT, a 2nd round pick, 2 undrafted free agents, and a 7th round pick.

Quality along the offensive line (in fact I hope they find a guy that fits their system in the second round during this years upcoming draft) and depth in the receiving corps is important but if a QB is good you're going to see it.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;770092]#1: Completely disagree. Name ONE TIME when we had the front 7 you described for an entire game this season. I know when Haynesworth WAS in the game in 4-3 setups he was dominating as always. I don't remember any time where Rak, Haynesworth, Golston, and Carter were on the line at the same time. And you think our defense would be worse than 32nd in the league, which we are?? Allowing 135 rushing yards and 260 passing yards a game while allowing 23.8 points per?? That's 23 more rushing and 53 more passing yards per game compared to last year. We also have allowed the most 10+ play drives in the NFL. As Keyshawn would say... "Come on, man!" I am not saying we'd have been top 10... why are you jumping from 32nd to top 10? I'd be happy with 15th right now. We'll just disagree on that one.

#2: He TWICE fumbled with an excuse. It put a huge dent into the whole "new regime, new attitude... out with dysfunction, in with professionalism." For a guy who expects his players to be stand up, stand behind your work guys... then shouldn't he? If he was disappointed in McNabb's play, just say so... why go with 2-minute offense and cardiac endurance craziness?

#3: Explained in my other post.. Do I think he'd be better than Armstrong... especially when Armstrong is mostly used for deep passes... yes. Just my opinion.

#4: I think if they know he doesn't fit what they want to do and they want to go in a different direction, then you play him... hope he plays well enough over the last 3 games that between the Vikings, Cardinals, Bengals, Panthers, Broncos, Titans, etc there could have been SOME competition to drum up trade value is all I am saying. Evaluate Grossman & Beck? Do you honestly think either will be our starting QB in 2012?[/quote]

The tumble we took defensively was going to happen regardless of how we lined up. I've argued that for weeks now. It's the same players, they're just in different spots. In fact, I've read that we've only been in the 3-4 about 30% of the time. Outside of Orakpo, Landry and Fletch, the guys we have in the front 7 just aren't very good.

Again, I won't argue with you about what Shanny said or shouldn't have said. That's his m.o. and you might as well get used to it. He's not a coach who is going to write a tell-all for every press conference he gives.

And I don't know who our starting QB will be next year. McNabb wasn't playing well, so he got benched. It happens with every other position on the field, but somehow, if it happens to the quarterback, people have a conniption fit.

It didn't work out with McNabb. Sucks, but oh well. I'd rather it go this way than to hang on forever hoping against hope that your guy will work out. We should be thankful Shanny isn't as stubborn as others might have been.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

How about this...

* Our defense has been great this year... huge improvement from 2009 in the 4-3.
* Randy Moss is a worse WR than Anthony Armstrong.
* Housh & Moss were given huge contracts with their new teams. (I could've SWORN they both got vet mins after being released... looked it up... umm yep that is fact... but eh... who cares about that?).
* Mike Shanahan's handling of McNabb's benching against Detroit wasn't too much of a mess.

You know... I think... after a while.... it's really idiotic to argue OPINIONS. They are opinions. When someone other than yourself puts them on a message board... do you have to try and prove them wrong? Is that what a message board is? I thought I was just venting my opinion... didn't realize this was a place to attempt to act like the smartest football evaluator in the history of man.... maybe my idea of a fan message board is all wrong.... I guess I'll stand corrected.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=GMScud;770093]Interesting snippet from that article:

[I]Wilbon, who made no pretense of objectivity as he ripped into Shanahan, said that McNabb has no ill will toward [URL="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2450"]Rex Grossman[/URL], who has replaced him as the starter. In fact, [B]Wilbon claims that one of the things McNabb is upset about is that Shanahan waited until after Thursday’s practice to make the move, depriving Grossman of the opportunity to work with the first-string offense on Wednesday and Thursday.[/B][/I]

Gotta agree with DM on that one. If you're gonna make the move, and you supposedly were considering it before last week's game as well, why not just insert Grossman at the start of this week's preparation for Dallas? Was DM so bad in this week of practice that he'd make this switch two days before the game without giving Grossman a full week of snaps with the first team?

Shanahan looks bad.[/quote]

Feels more like he's trying to secure a high draft slot. Which is a good sign. Maybe we'll finally get our rebuilding project. Just pray it doesn't turn out like the 49er's.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;770098]How about this...

* Our defense has been great this year... huge improvement from 2009 in the 4-3.
* Randy Moss is a worse WR than Anthony Armstrong.
* Housh & Moss were given huge contracts with their new teams. (I could've SWORN they both got vet mins after being released... looked it up... umm yep that is fact... but eh... who cares about that?).
* Mike Shanahan's handling of McNabb's benching against Detroit wasn't too much of a mess.

You know... I think... after a while.... it's really idiotic to argue OPINIONS. They are opinions. When someone other than yourself puts them on a message board... do you have to try and prove them wrong? Is that what a message board is? I thought I was just venting my opinion... didn't realize this was a place to attempt to act like the smartest football evaluator in the history of man.... maybe my idea of a fan message board is all wrong.... I guess I'll stand corrected.[/quote]Since when is telling someone they are wrong out of line on a discussion board? If you just want to feel warm and fuzzy about your beliefs, then not posting them is the best way to ensure that.

There's not even great evidence that you are wrong, re: our defense, as our run defense ranking is down significantly from last year while our pass defense...is similar. That was supposed to be a positive trade-off, but there's been no trade. It's just been a decline in run defense. The trade off has been less pass rush for better coverage, instead of better coverage for less run defense. That suggests a problem in the personnel on the front.

I can assure you those problems are named McIntosh, Golston, and Kemoeatu, and Orakpo is a liability against the run who was protected by the scheme last year. We have more blockers on Fletcher right now than ever before. That can be blamed on the 3-4, but independent of scheme, I'm looking at McIntosh and Golston and Kemo not doing their jobs in any scheme. Gap defense is gap defense. If we're bad at it, we're bad at it. Doesn't matter where you stand before the play, you need to control your gap.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;770098]
You know... I think... after a while.... it's really idiotic to argue OPINIONS. They are opinions. When someone other than yourself puts them on a message board... do you have to try and prove them wrong? Is that what a message board is? I thought I was just venting my opinion... didn't realize this was a place to attempt to act like the smartest football evaluator in the history of man.... maybe my idea of a fan message board is all wrong.... I guess I'll stand corrected.[/quote]

if we all just posted our opinions without having to ever defend them this would just be a blog basically. This is a place to share your opinions and hear others that may or may not agree with you. You have the full right to vent your opinion as others do too. Disagreeing with you doesn't necessarily make your opinion wrong or right

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

Btw where has Aceinthehouse been?? He hasn't said much as of late