Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288058]We don't have allies. We just have lots of countries that take advantage of us.

Fuck what our "allies" think about us.

[url]https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-afghanistan-american-credibility-uk-parliament-condemnation[/url]

We spend all the money, our soldiers do the large majority of dying/sacrificing, and we get "allies" saying shit like this?

If I was ever president, and I'd be awesome lol, one of the very 1st things I'd do is get the fuck out of the UN/NATO. A bunch of freeloaders.
..........[/quote]


What is something Trump would say, Alex (Mayim??)?

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

I love how masks violate civil liberties but you know stabbing someone does not. Also for being anti-mask the Proud Boys sure do like to wear them. What's up with that?

[url]https://www.democracynow.org/2021/8/23/anti_vaccine_protest_los_angeles[/url]

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

lol @ "proud boys"

how much thought do you think went into that name?

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1288201]I love how masks violate civil liberties but you know stabbing someone does not. Also for being anti-mask the Proud Boys sure do like to wear them. What's up with that?

[url]https://www.democracynow.org/2021/8/23/anti_vaccine_protest_los_angeles[/url][/quote]

These people are fucking idiots. Go do something productive jackasses. They do way more harm than good even for their own "causes".

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1288202]lol @ "proud boys"

how much thought do you think went into that name?[/quote]

I can't take anyone seriously with a name like that. So dumb.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Let's just call them what they really are, domestic terrorists. Lock them up.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1288201]I love how masks violate civil liberties but you know stabbing someone does not. Also for being anti-mask the Proud Boys sure do like to wear them. What's up with that?

[url]https://www.democracynow.org/2021/8/23/anti_vaccine_protest_los_angeles[/url][/quote]

I for one am thrilled they are taking covid so seriously.

Wait, what? Are you suggesting they are wearing masks to hide their identities while they commit crimes and they really don't give two shits about covid?

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

I am a firm believer that the United States is tilted so California is downhill from the eat coast. That is why all the nuts roll west. Most get stuck in the mountains but some have enough momentum to make it over the divide

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[IMG]https://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/194540-780x520.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://hneet24.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/ertedfgddd.jpg?w=1400[/IMG]

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1288234]I am a firm believer that the United States is tilted so California is downhill from the eat coast. That is why all the nuts roll west. Most get stuck in the mountains but some have enough momentum to make it over the divide[/quote]

All of the west coast, Portland and Seattle have lots of weirdos too.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1288002]Anyone here from Chico since this guy was caught??
[emoji23][/quote]

LOL,..........I couldn't be that lucky.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1288243][IMG][/IMG]

[IMG]https://hneet24.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/ertedfgddd.jpg?w=1400[/IMG][/quote]

What is that lower picture of (Dagohir?)

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1288234]I am a firm believer that the United States is tilted so California is downhill from the eat coast. That is why all the nuts roll west. Most get stuck in the mountains but some have enough momentum to make it over the divide[/quote]

To be honest it’s really ashame to see what’s happened to San Francisco, Portland and Seattle. Places were once great, beacons of creativity, and where you were free to be yourself…all these places exemplified freedom.

I think it’s a lesson on what can go wrong, when politics become brainworm diseases…and quite honestly when you got it so good you don’t know what to do but destroy it all.

I got a close friend in San Fran who been there 12 years and one who is originally from Portland now lives of the east coast…they don’t recognize it anymore.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TZt-pOc3moc[/url]
For me my favorite line is wait in Portland it is like the Bush administration never happened.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[url]https://apple.news/AP2WQNFJRTUCIA4VwTAWj2g[/url]
Democratic Party of California literally encouraging constituents to not vote at all on a question. Feel like I am taking crazy pills

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1288262]To be honest it’s really ashame to see what’s happened to San Francisco, Portland and Seattle. Places were once great, beacons of creativity, and where you were free to be yourself…all these places exemplified freedom.

I think it’s a lesson on what can go wrong, when politics become brainworm diseases…and quite honestly when you got it so good you don’t know what to do but destroy it all.

I got a close friend in San Fran who been there 12 years and one who is originally from Portland now lives of the east coast…they don’t recognize it anymore.[/QUOTE]


Classic response to the trumper who tried to blow up the Capitol building. Talk about how liberal cities are becoming dangerous and wastelands where statues have to watch their backs. LOL. Got plenty of non Trumper friends out there. Nothing has changed. You know what has? Domestic terrorists and hate crimes. It’s a shame Trump gave a platform to those fuck heads. If by free to be yourself you mean wear a maga hat and regurgitate fox news propaganda and cry about how they are taking things away from whitey there is no place you should be able to go. Let alone the cities u mentioned. But please lets cry make San Francisco white again. I mean great again.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1288268][B]Classic response to the trumper who tried to blow up the Capitol building.[/B] Talk about how liberal cities are becoming dangerous and wastelands where statues have to watch their backs. LOL. Got plenty of non Trumper friends out there. Nothing has changed. You know what has? Domestic terrorists and hate crimes. It’s a shame Trump gave a platform to those fuck heads. If by free to be yourself you mean wear a maga hat and regurgitate fox news propaganda and cry about how they are taking things away from whitey there is no place you should be able to go. Let alone the cities u mentioned. But please lets cry make San Francisco white again. I mean great again.[/quote]

Yeah…I think it’s safe to say these aren’t conservative run cities and haven’t been maybe ever? It’s not really about politics IMO. I mean the legacy of gentrification in San Fran is evident tho.

This is a really good article from a person who has lived in Portland since the 90s. It’s not left or right perspective:

[url]https://reason.com/2021/03/22/the-dream-of-the-90s-died-in-portland/[/url]

Lol…what, I didn’t see this (bold) originally…but I tried to blow up what? Lol 😂

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

60,000+ Afgan refugees coming to the states!

Quick Reminder for Conservatives:
All lives matter.
Jesus would welcome them with open arms.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1288261]What is that lower picture of (Dagohir?)[/quote]

lol I have no idea.

I do wish I had a "thing". Like being a bicyclist or fisherman .. I am honestly jealous of these LARPer people. They have a thing they do. Look at Randy, he likes sausage, thats something.

I have no "thing".

I used to go ocean kayaking, fishing, 3 am graffiti bombing sessions, hard drugs .. now its low abv pale ales and melted butter on popcorn.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=jamf;1288271]60,000+ Afgan refugees coming to the states!

Quick Reminder for Conservatives:
All lives matter.
Jesus would welcome them with open arms.[/quote]

What qualifies as a refugee from Afghanistan? I imagine 90% of them hate the Taliban but are too scared and/or don't have the power to do anything about it.

There are 30+ million people there. How do we choose who gets to leave? Millions of them probably want to get out of that shithole.

Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1288269]Yeah…I think it’s safe to say these aren’t conservative run cities and haven’t been maybe ever? It’s not really about politics IMO. I mean the legacy of gentrification in San Fran is evident tho.

This is a really good article from a person who has lived in Portland since the 90s. It’s not left or right perspective:

[url]https://reason.com/2021/03/22/the-dream-of-the-90s-died-in-portland/[/url]

Lol…what, I didn’t see this (bold) originally…but I tried to blow up what? Lol [emoji23][/QUOTE]


Classic response “to” a trumper who ….
Meaning Portland or some liberal city that is “burning to the ground and unsafe, escape from new york like snake pliskin type of shit” , when its really not, always comes up after some Trumper tries to blow something up.
Wasn’t talking about you. You resurfaced and so u are clearly not the one who attempted this. Unless you have access from the cell? Who knows?

Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=jamf;1288271]60,000+ Afgan refugees coming to the states!

Quick Reminder for Conservatives:
All lives matter.
Jesus would welcome them with open arms.[/QUOTE]


We can give back anyone who was at the Capitol in a red hat for starters. Id feel 1000 percent safer with them here and all the whack jobs reading q anon sites and buying guns for the “revolution “. Even swap.
Could some of the 60 k be bad people. Of course. Can they be worse ? No. Chances are extremely high that they are not all on par with domestic terrorists.

Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1288274]What qualifies as a refugee from Afghanistan? I imagine 90% of them hate the Taliban but are too scared and/or don't have the power to do anything about it.

There are 30+ million people there. How do we choose who gets to leave? Millions of them probably want to get out of that shithole.[/QUOTE]


Were all the ones who were on our side and their families included in that number? If so than they qualify. I guess anyone else who does what they need to do to get here the right way….if they are able. Hopefully any decent person there who wants a better life for themselves because the one they have there is not humane gets out.
That should be every Americans hope. But im sure the far right and their mouth piece is already in the war room coming up with ways to spin it into “Biden welcomes Afghan criminals and warlords to America posing as refugees “.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288274]What qualifies as a refugee from Afghanistan? I imagine 90% of them hate the Taliban but are too scared and/or don't have the power to do anything about it.

There are 30+ million people there. How do we choose who gets to leave? Millions of them probably want to get out of that shithole.[/quote]

[url]https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-struggles-to-count-citizens-in-afghanistan-as-biden-weighs-withdrawal-delay/ar-AANEcSG?li=BBnb7Kz[/url]

"According to a U.S. official involved in the effort, the U.S. is currently evacuating mostly U.S. citizens, green card holders, and the spouses and children of those individuals. Afghans who were employed by the embassy or other U.S. agencies in Afghanistan haven’t yet been evacuated in significant numbers."

...

"Mr. Price added that the administration was working to expedite the screening process for Afghans, but cited the “rigorous vetting” required before admission to the U.S.

“That vetting, by and large, is taking place [in] third countries,” he said."

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1288283][url]https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-struggles-to-count-citizens-in-afghanistan-as-biden-weighs-withdrawal-delay/ar-AANEcSG?li=BBnb7Kz[/url]

"According to a U.S. official involved in the effort, the U.S. is currently evacuating mostly U.S. citizens, green card holders, and the spouses and children of those individuals. Afghans who were employed by the embassy or other U.S. agencies in Afghanistan haven’t yet been evacuated in significant numbers."

...

"Mr. Price added that the administration was working to expedite the screening process for Afghans, but cited the “rigorous vetting” required before admission to the U.S.

“That vetting, by and large, is taking place [in] third countries,” he said."[/quote]

Curious how the U.S. vets Regular Joe that lives in Afghanistan. Does Afghanistan keep actual records of people?

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288284]Curious how the U.S. vets Regular Joe that lives in Afghanistan. Does Afghanistan keep actual records of people?[/quote]

I would assume Afghans that assisted American forces - either through translating or through helping via some other manner - IE helping build bases that we lived on or supported projects that we financed - would also be prioritized. I would also think the military would keep track of these people that were cleared to assist them so that they could be helped via green card/etc. later.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1288285]I would assume Afghans that assisted American forces - either through translating or through helping via some other manner - IE helping build bases that we lived on or supported projects that we financed - would also be prioritized. I would also think the military would keep track of these people that were cleared to assist them so that they could be helped via green card/etc. later.[/quote]

Did we have 60,000 translators or other type assistors (for lack of a better word) to America? I'm all for all of them and their families coming here. Their lives are on the line.

But I imagine that's maybe 20,000, and that's probably on the high side.

Who are the other 40,000? How are they vetted? And how are they picked? Millions of Afghanees would come here if it was an option. And this is true we'll before 2021.

A terrorist organization runs their country now. Literally everyone that isn't in the Taliban would seem to me to qualify as a refugee.

[B]Asylum seekers and refugees are a very hard thing to define. Not including Afghanistan right now, because this is a very special circumstance. But it seems like that if anyone that lives in a country that is worse than America (that's every country in the world), they should be allowed to come here, and you're just a scared whitey if you disagree. There are literally billions of people in the world that live in oppressive countries, should they all be allowed in?

Having questions about immigration and the actual amount of people we can take in, doesn't make you an asshole.[/B]

Note - the part in bold isn't directed at you specifically, that is just a general discussion based on the conversation in the thread.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288286]Did we have 60,000 translators or other type assistors (for lack of a better word) to America? I'm all for all of them and their families coming here. Their lives are on the line.

But I imagine that's maybe 20,000, and that's probably on the high side.

Who are the other 40,000? How are they vetted? And how are they picked? Millions of Afghanees would come here if it was an option. And this is true we'll before 2021.

A terrorist organization runs their country now. Literally everyone that isn't in the Taliban would seem to me to qualify as a refugee.

[B]Asylum seekers and refugees are a very hard thing to define. Not including Afghanistan right now, because this is a very special circumstance. But it seems like that if anyone that lives in a country that is worse than America (that's every country in the world), they should be allowed to come here, and you're just a scared whitey if you disagree. There are literally billions of people in the world that live in oppressive countries, should they all be allowed in?

Having questions about immigration and the actual amount of people we can take in, doesn't make you an asshole.[/B]

Note - the part in bold isn't directed at you specifically, that is just a general discussion based on the conversation in the thread.[/quote]

I imagine several were just fleeing. The Taliban is helping regulate control to airport outside of gate: [url]https://www.democracynow.org/2021/8/25/headlines/taliban_blocks_afghans_from_accessing_kabul_airport[/url]

So it looks like there is a series of vetting starting with Afghanistan and then inside the airport as well.

To answer your question about refugees and who should be considered? I really don't know. All I know is with decreased social-political and climate stability we are going to have way more people knocking on our door.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1288284]Curious how the U.S. vets Regular Joe that lives in Afghanistan. Does Afghanistan keep actual records of people?[/QUOTE]


We have records of people here. What good does it do? Will be another domestic terrorist attack in 3…2…

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Herschel Walker running for U.S. Senate in GA.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288312]Herschel Walker running for U.S. Senate in GA.[/quote]

As a trumpette republican.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Most Americans in general don't grasp this. You'd think someone who is President could (unfortunately the last two don't/didn't) Good explanation on what we were doing in Afghanistan and why leaving was an idiotic mistake.

[url]https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/08/25/afghanistan_was_never_an_endless_war_146300.html[/url]

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1288315]Most Americans in general don't grasp this. You'd think someone who is President could (unfortunately the last two don't/didn't) Good explanation on what we were doing in Afghanistan and why leaving was an idiotic mistake.

[url]https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/08/25/afghanistan_was_never_an_endless_war_146300.html[/url][/quote]

There was no finite game of war for us to win, declare victory, and return from. [B]Our mission[/B] in that mountainous, tribal, quasi-nation-state that fostered terrorists was never to achieve a victory and head home. It [B]was to maintain the minimum military presence necessary to ensure order and stop violent terrorists[/B]. It was not an “endless war” but an infinite game.

^^^ conclusion from the article you cited.

I can see the benefit of that but after the ANA folded and bribed away, learning that the 300k army we were paying for was actually 100k, the level of funds mismanagement, cost of all these contractors and "friendlies" .. plus the annual cost of just paying aid to afghanistan govt

Was it worth continuing the charade?

I say no.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1288325]There was no finite game of war for us to win, declare victory, and return from. [B]Our mission[/B] in that mountainous, tribal, quasi-nation-state that fostered terrorists was never to achieve a victory and head home. It [B]was to maintain the minimum military presence necessary to ensure order and stop violent terrorists[/B]. It was not an “endless war” but an infinite game.

^^^ conclusion from the article you cited.

I can see the benefit of that but after the ANA folded and bribed away, learning that the 300k army we were paying for was actually 100k, the level of funds mismanagement, cost of all these contractors and "friendlies" .. plus the annual cost of just paying aid to afghanistan govt

Was it worth continuing the charade?

I say no.[/quote]

It certainly appears like we are paying an enormously higher price (Prestige, trust, lives and yes probably treasure too(which you were highlighting)) in leaving than we would have if we stayed. In other words it certainly looks like it was worth staying. Due to this surrender, we've already payed more in lives than we had in the last 18 months and frankly I'm sure other Americans have already been killed there that we don't know about yet and more will killed due to our surrender of Afghanistan to the Taliban.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=nonniey;1288326]It certainly appears like we are paying an enormously higher price in leaving than we would have if we stayed. In other words it certainly looks like it was worth staying. We've already payed more in lives than we had in the last 18 months and frankly I'm sure other Americans have already been killed there that we don't know about yet and more will killed due to our surrender of Afghanistan to the Taliban.[/QUOTE]I am really torn, overall I supported exiting Afghanistan, but at the same point we still have troops in Europe 75 years after WWII. The main difference I guess is that Europe had functioning governments that chose to stay connected not puppet governments. If people in any country choose not to defend themselves and create a stable form of government, then we can't count that cost of exiting as anything but the acceptance that we are not an empire, world police organization, or dictatorship; and we should have left long ago.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1288326]It certainly appears like we are paying an enormously higher price (Prestige, trust, lives and yes probably treasure too(which you were highlighting)) in leaving than we would have if we stayed. In other words it certainly looks like it was worth staying. Due to this surrender, we've already payed more in lives than we had in the last 18 months and frankly I'm sure other Americans have already been killed there that we don't know about yet and more will killed due to our surrender of Afghanistan to the Taliban.[/quote]

ive heard 3 things so far that I agree with.

1. from day 1 back in early 2000 .. perhaps the best approach wouldnt have been to try and stabilize the entire country and competing tribes but take like half of it, fortify that area and let the other half be taliban a al S Korea and N Korea.

2. may 1 withdrawl (while still being rushed and imperfect) was a better date bc that would have been right at beginning of the fighting season and the Taliban wouldnt have been poised to threaten Kabul so quickly .. vs now, august right in the middle of the war season.

3. If we stayed, it wasnt going to as "peaceful" as it had been the past few years. I think the calmness the past few years was conditioned on us leaving.

For whatever its worth, this keyboard warrior is glad we are pulling out.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1288327]I am really torn, overall I supported exiting Afghanistan, but at the same point we still have troops in Europe 75 years after WWII. The main difference I guess is that Europe had functioning governments that chose to stay connected not puppet governments. If people in any country choose not to defend themselves and create a stable form of government, then we can't count that cost of exiting as anything but the acceptance that we are not an empire, world police organization, or dictatorship; and we should have left long ago.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

We are all wrong at times, admitting one was wrong in a position one took is something most won't do. You look like you are mulling over admitting supporting an exit was the wrong position to take.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1288328]ive heard 3 things so far that I agree with.

1. from day 1 back in early 2000 .. perhaps the best approach wouldnt have been to try and stabilize the entire country and competing tribes but take like half of it, fortify that area and let the other half be taliban a al S Korea and N Korea.

2. may 1 withdrawl (while still being rushed and imperfect) was a better date bc that would have been right at beginning of the fighting season and the Taliban wouldnt have been poised to threaten Kabul so quickly .. vs now, august right in the middle of the war season.

3. If we stayed, it wasnt going to as "peaceful" as it had been the past few years. I think the calmness the past few years was conditioned on us leaving.

For whatever its worth, this keyboard warrior is glad we are pulling out.[/quote]

RE Point 3. The "peaceful" period goes back to 2014 years before anyone in power was proposing leaving. We had this under control and along came Trump and Biden who thought surrender was the better option. It is now readily apparent it was the worst choice that could have been made.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1288330]RE Point 3. The "peaceful" period goes back to 2014 years before anyone in power was proposing leaving. We had this under control and along came Trump and Biden who thought surrender was the better option. It is now readily apparent it was the worst choice that could have been made.[/quote]

Surrender??? WTF? We trained 350,000 Afghan citizens to defend their own Country. We gave them ,support in every way imaginable ,our Country was /is overwhelmingly for getting out of that shit hole. I have said before I feel for all still there but when do they take responsibility for themselves? This was not a surprise to anyone why were people waiting to leave?

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1288331..... /is overwhelmingly for getting out of that shit hole.......[/QUOTE]

Like I posted above it is hard for people to admit they supported the wrong position even when events clearly show it to be the wrong position. There is no question now (none!) that the wrong decision was made by both Trump and Biden in surrendering Afghanistan to the Taliban (and yes surrender is the right word for it - get used to it too as that term is starting to take hold - see link below). We are paying a high price for their ineptitude and will continue to pay it for years to come.


[url]https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/commentary/2021/08/24/breaking-hearts-and-minds-the-strategy-of-surrender/[/url]