Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=FRPLG;444100]Yeah I am baffled too. Tripp you have given none of your treasured evidence to show why Thomas is such a dud. You just say it like it is proven fact and the only people on the planet who didn't know he sucked were the redskins and most of their fans.[/quote]


All of his stats were from one year. He had transfered from a smaller school and didnt get the "full" college playing time experience. A lot of analysts said the same thing about him being untested and there wasnt really too much to go off of when evaluating the guy, at least with film.

I think GT's point was our first pick was rather risky, so whats the big deal if he wasnt totally sold on the idea of picking him?

I think we should have taken Sweed personally but its whatever. I'm ok with Devin Thomas and im sure all of us will have our eyes on him this year.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=chrisl4064;444115]I think GT's point was our first pick was rather risky, so whats the big deal if he wasnt totally sold on the idea of picking him?.[/quote]

Wow that is an interesting way to describe GTripp in this case? There is no way to know what is going to happen(stats don't help) and as history shows it's simply an educated guessing game. It's all just a prediction so people who act like they know what's up are as I already said complete jokers.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Bottom line, all three first day picks came outside of the first round and all three were at great value considering any of them, Davis included, could have been taken in the first round and no one would have batted an eye. And as I stated earlier, all three will make the team and bring immediate impact.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=GusFrerotte;443992]Thrash is probably indeed toast as well as any WR that isn't Moss or Randle El, unless the latter two will be trade bait. Strange pick for a new TE. Guy is a beast, but we do need a S and a young CB real bad, so why "waste" a pick on a non necessity? Zorn must not like our depth a TE at all. Overall I am OK with today's events though. IF Cooley goes down we have a beast of a backup or even someone that can give Cooley some real competition. [B]Moss is getting old and gets banged up too easy anymore. [/B]Still pissed at that fumble of his that cost us the Packers game and his nonchalant attitude about his crappy play that followed.[/QUOTE]

Santana Moss has been getting a free pass from the fans for what he did [I]three years ago[/I]. Since then, he's been a lackluster, average wide receiver. And anyone who thinks any different is delusional.

Thrash is trash, and Anthony Mix had better burn it up in training camp if he hopes to be a part of this team. Randle El can go bye-bye as far as I'm concerned. He's a #3 wideout at best and a ho-hum punt returner. If we can snag a 4th rounder for him, I'd say 'see ya.'

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=mooby;444004]Do you mean at the draft or with the Redskins at Redskins Park? Because if you are suprised that he wasn't at the actual draft, that's really no big deal, there aren't any head coaches who actually go to the draft, they usually just send 3-4 team personnel to New York to put the name on the card and notify the league who they are drafting. Everyone else, i.e. front office, coaches, DS, they are all at Redskins Park.[/quote]


aaahhh...ok, yeah I didn't know. I guess its no big deal then.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Beemnseven;444135]Santana Moss has been getting a free pass from the fans for what he did [I]three years ago[/I]. Since then, he's been a lackluster, average wide receiver. And anyone who thinks any different is delusional.

Thrash is trash, and Anthony Mix had better burn it up in training camp if he hopes to be a part of this team. Randle El can go bye-bye as far as I'm concerned. He's a #3 wideout at best and a ho-hum punt returner. If we can snag a 4th rounder for him, I'd say 'see ya.'[/quote]
I don't disagree with your assessment, but because of the cap hits Moss and ARE go nowhere before 2010.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;444135]Santana Moss has been getting a free pass from the fans for what he did [I]three years ago[/I]. Since then, he's been a lackluster, average wide receiver. And anyone who thinks any different is delusional.

Thrash is trash, and Anthony Mix had better burn it up in training camp if he hopes to be a part of this team. Randle El can go bye-bye as far as I'm concerned. He's a #3 wideout at best and a ho-hum punt returner. If we can snag a 4th rounder for him, I'd say 'see ya.'[/QUOTE]

Back off my man Thrash. He provides a solid, hard working aditude and is one of the best Special Teamers in the league. El can not perform when the true slot receiver is stuck on the other end of a 5'10 receiver. Mix has yet to be proven but it is wrong to just throw him out the door. And Moss is a burner who, when complemented with another larger reciever who can take some pressure off him, will be a major weapon for us. There is much more to football than going long and recieving. There is fundementals of Football, hard work ethics, and talent. All of which I feel all of our receivers (well not Mix, yet... but there is a reason he has not been cut) exhibit every day be it offseason or Sunday.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;444159]I don't disagree with your assessment, but because of the cap hits Moss and ARE go nowhere before 2010.[/quote]

Are you serious? You don't disagree that Moss is at best an average wide receiver? Did you watch any games last year after he got back to being healthy? Bears, Giants, Vikings, Cowboys? I'm glad fans don't evaluate talent for this team at any level other than internet posts.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=SC Skins Fan;444166]Are you serious? You don't disagree that Moss is at best an average wide receiver? Did you watch any games last year after he got back to being healthy? Bears, Giants, Vikings, Cowboys? I'm glad fans don't evaluate talent for this team at any level other than internet posts.[/QUOTE]

One receiver alone cannot make an impact. All season we were limited in our WR's. Those games you speak of Moss did perform "average" but that was with another under 6' tall reciver who is not as fast as him on the other side. Moss is an asset and you will see that now that he has an opportunity to play without being double teamed. You cant pass judgement on him based on last season. I am almost certain you will be puting ketchup on and eating your post for lunch next season.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

if we have to move some picks to move up here in the third and nab a decent OL or CB prospect...I will not mind, anyone else?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;444173]if we have to move some picks to move up here in the third and nab a decent OL or CB prospect...I will not mind, anyone else?[/QUOTE]

Yeah same here but I would rather get a DE, CB, and O-line in that order.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Stuck in TX;444175]Yeah same here but I would rather get a DE, CB, and O-line in that order.[/quote]

yeah, but its my understanding that there aren't any quality DE prospects left...anyone you can name?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=Stuck in TX;444161]Back off my man Thrash. He provides a solid, hard working aditude and is one of the best Special Teamers in the league. El can not perform when the true slot receiver is stuck on the other end of a 5'10 receiver. Mix has yet to be proven but it is wrong to just throw him out the door. And Moss is a burner who, when complemented with another larger reciever who can take some pressure off him, will be a major weapon for us. There is much more to football than going long and recieving. There is fundementals of Football, hard work ethics, and talent. All of which I feel all of our receivers (well not Mix, yet... but there is a reason he has not been cut) exhibit every day be it offseason or Sunday.[/QUOTE]

No, by 'trash' I mean he's probably gone. Thrash has contributed nicely over the years, but at some point he's going to have to make way for guys who can make big plays. I just think his time here is done.

With Mix, I'm only saying that he's got some serious competition now, so he'd better be up to the task. Otherwise there just won't be any room for him. Unless they totally bomb and suck out loud, I'd say Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly already have the edge on him.

As for Moss, yes, I know he's not going anywhere due to cap constraints. Perhaps the additions of other wideouts who can draw more attention from the DBs will take some heat off of him. I just think too many people are still living in 2005 when Moss was fantastic. They just can't seem to come to grips with the fact that he hasn't been anywhere near that level of productivity since.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

2 wide receivers and a tight end on the first day with an aged Offensive line and no pass rush was a bad draft. The shuffling that went on with the offensive line last year should not be forgotten and should have been addressed earlier. I have always hated teams that use the Cerrato philosophy of 'best available'.

I run a part time DJ biz and if I need a new amplifier and walk into the DJ store and buy a new mixer because it's on sale and a 'good value' what the heck good is it. I still need a new amp.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;443733]I'd have loved the Kelly and Thomas picks if we had gotten some help on the D to go along with it. I have no problem not taking OL help yet. The talent is just as strong in the later rounds there. But not at DE. What do we do now?

As far as improving our WRs Kelly and Thomas is great, but does it make our team better?[/quote]

It doesn't make us better cause one guy isn't going to play unless we're going to be running a lot of 4 wr sets.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;444044]We don't really know if Thomas drops passes. We don't know if he runs good routes. We don't know if he's an NFL talent. Nothing he did in college suggests that he's good at anything football.

He's fast and strong. That much we know about him. He can jump, and move laterally very fast.

Sold? I'm not.[/quote]

I'm not sold either. Too much of a risk IMO.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;444063]I'm totally baffled by this post. I think you spend too much time with your metrics and DVOAs and your DPARs that you overanalyze way too often and then you find yourself trying to convince us that we're better off with Tim Rattay, yet Devin Thomas has only shown the ability to run and jump[/quote]

Smoot....I really really like Thomas but with your first pick you need to go with more of a sure thing. Don't you think?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Thomas was rated as first round talent and was projected to possibly go as high as #11 to Buffalo. I don't think he would have been a reach even at #21, to get him where we did was fantastic.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;444166]Are you serious? You don't disagree that Moss is at best an average wide receiver? Did you watch any games last year after he got back to being healthy? Bears, Giants, Vikings, Cowboys? I'm glad fans don't evaluate talent for this team at any level other than internet posts.[/quote]

My how times have changed around here. I remember not too long ago there was a thread about how Randy Moss was done and Santana was better.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Mattyk72;444202]Thomas was rated as first round talent and was projected to possibly go as high as #11 to Buffalo. I don't think he would have been a reach even at #21, to get him where we did was fantastic.[/quote]

I guess so. I just understand the overkill at wr.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=FRPLG;444103]
GRec Yds TD Lg Rec/G Avg/C Avg/G
13 79 1260 8 80 6.1 15.9 96.9

NONE of that shows he can play football? None?[/quote]Why do you come out if you are Devin Thomas? Why does it make any sense?

You've had a pretty nice season, but [B]you haven't proved that it can be repeated[/B]. You have a year of eligibility left, why not return to school, get better at your trade, and help your college team win?

If nothing else, we can tell that Devin Thomas was more interested in a pay day than becoming the best wide receiver he can be. Perhaps I'm wrong on him, and he will be good enough to start in this league. But either way, I'm tired of adding players who are in it for the money.

Obviously to an extent, everyones in it for the money. But that didn't stop most players from waiting a year and improving themselves so that they could become the best they could be. Thomas doesn't seem to be worried about improving himself.

Malcolm Kelly came out early, but his touchdown production went from 2, to 10, to 9. He's done it multiple years and is a far superior prospect to Thomas.

I'm sorry to hate on your guy's parade with reality, but we took a guy on hype, and that rarely works out.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;444210]I guess so. I just understand the overkill at wr.[/quote]

If Zorn intends on using a lot of 3 and 4 WR sets and rotating these guys in and out depending on the packages it makes sense. Not sure how you can have overkill when you look at the mediocre WR production we had last year. I think this draft indicates the shift in philosophy from Gibbs run first mentality to Zorn's offense which looks like it's going to be pass heavy.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=SC Skins Fan;444166]Are you serious? You don't disagree that Moss is at best an average wide receiver? Did you watch any games last year after he got back to being healthy? Bears, Giants, Vikings, Cowboys? [B]I'm glad fans don't evaluate talent for this team[/B] at any level other than internet posts.[/QUOTE]

Are you an NFL scout? Or are you just a fan who evaluates talent and posts your views on the internet? If your house is made of glass......

I think Moss has the ability to be dominant when healthy. In those last three games you mention Moss had 15 catches for 271 yards. That works out to a 16 game pace of 80 catches for 1445 yards. I distinctly remember Moss making great adjustments on the ball on two passes thrown along the sideline in the Giants game. I should mentioned that Moss caught 3 balls for 75 yards (a 25 yard avg.) on a night when Collins barely threw because it was so windy. I also remember Moss making a great adjustment on the ball and beating Vikings CB Marcus McCauley for a TD.

Moss undoubtedly has the initial explosiveness off the line, the straight-line speed, and agility you'd like to see from a burner. Moss is excellent at adjusting to the ball. Moss' only real problem is that he has trouble staying healthy (which is, admittedly, a big problem).

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;444215]Are you an NFL scout? Or are you just a fan who evaluates talent and posts your views on the internet? I'm not trying to be a d^&k, but if your house is made of glass......

I think Moss has the ability to be dominant when healthy. In those last three games you mentioned Moss had 15 catches for 271 yards. That works out to a 16 game pace of 80 catches for 1445 yards. I distinctly remember Moss making great adjustments on the ball on two passes thrown along the sideline in the Giants game. I should mentioned that Moss caught 3 balls for 75 yards (a 25 yard avg.) on a night when Collins barely threw because it was so windy. I also remember Moss making a great adjustment on the ball and beating Vikings CB Marcus McCauley for a TD.

Moss undoubtedly has the initial explosiveness off the line, the straight-line speed, and agility you'd like to see from a burner. Moss is excellent at adjusting to the ball. [B]Moss' only real problem is that he has trouble staying healthy (which is, admittedly, a big problem)[/B].[/quote]

That's the key point right there. People want to keep pointing to 2005 to say what Moss is capable of but the reality is the guy has serious problems staying on the field. ARE was also dinged at times last year and I think most agree he's best suited for the slot role anyway.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Mattyk72;444214]If Zorn intends on using a lot of 3 and 4 WR sets and rotating these guys in and out depending on the packages it makes sense. Not sure how you can have overkill when you look at the mediocre WR production we had last year. I think this draft indicates the shift in philosophy from Gibbs run first mentality to Zorn's offense which looks like it's going to be pass heavy.[/quote]Yeah, but if that [I]is [/I]the philosophy, then the Fred Davis pick makes no sense.

Irregardless of the talent we got, there were a few dissenting opinions making the decisions, and it created overkill. If we had just drafted Thomas, and then Davis (one TE, and one WR), can you come up with a potential scenario where we wouldn't have it covered with the personnel we had?

Kelly was a good value, but his only role on this team comes if he can beat out Devin Thomas.

I suppose that 4 years down the road, the team is planning to have Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly at the receivers, but in the next three seasons, Moss and/or ARE are still going to be here, and that means that one of those guys is nothing more than a 4th receiver for the time being.

That would be the very definition of overkill.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

GTripp,

Do you think we took Thomas because of the hype? Thomas is 6'2", has 4.4 speed, is very strong and agile, has good hands, is tough, and puts up excellent stats in 2007. It sounds like he's unpolished and it might not work out, but that's probably why we passed on him @ 21. We used our #2 pick to draft a boom/bust wideout.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;444218]That's the key point right there. People want to keep pointing to 2005 to say what Moss is capable of but the reality is the guy has serious problems staying on the field.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't attacking the Redskins' decision to draft 2 wideouts and a TE. I was simply disagreeing with the statement that Moss is an average receiver at best [U]when healthy[/U].

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

It is what it is, the Skins have made their picks i was not fond of them at first but the more i think about it i like it i like it alot, make defenses really have to plan for us.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Mattyk72;444214]If Zorn intends on using a lot of 3 and 4 WR sets and rotating these guys in and out depending on the packages it makes sense. Not sure how you can have overkill when you look at the mediocre WR production we had last year. I think this draft indicates the shift in philosophy from Gibbs run first mentality to Zorn's offense which looks like it's going to be pass heavy.[/quote]

Well I don't mind the offense being more wide open and aggresive. But I wonder if we're going to be able to pull this off without getting JC killed. Time will tell.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

i'm tired of goal line situations run run run and everyone knows it what do you think we will do now exactly the possibilites are endless you don't know just like other defenses won't know

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

We're up in three more picks...keep your fingers crossed.

Dallas just traded their pick to Detroit.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Still plenty of quality offensive lineman available

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Here we go 3 picks away. Who are we taking at 96?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;444222]GTripp,

Do you think we took Thomas because of the hype? Thomas is 6'2", has 4.4 speed, is very strong and agile, has good hands, is tough, and puts up excellent stats in 2007. It sounds like he's unpolished and it might not work out, but that's probably why we passed on him @ 21. We used our #2 pick to draft a boom/bust wideout.[/quote]From the information SmootSmack dug up, it sounds like we would have taken him at 21, had we not got the trade.

I do think we took Thomas because of the hype. Most of our draft week focus centered around Malcolm Kelly. I know we had met with Thomas, but we clearly weren't expecting him to be there, and took him because he was the most hyped player there.

That's not always a bad strategy. The Raiders would have been wise to snag Glenn Dorsey before he fell to the Chiefs, but they were locked into McFadden.

However, the statistical probability on Devin Thomas based on what he did in college (potential fluke year, left early), the chances he's just totally overmatched in the NFL is probably close to 50%. Of course that gives him a 50% chance of being average or better, so it is a glass half empty, half full kind of thing. I just feel that the 34th overall pick should be 80% or better to succeed.

I don't see Thomas as a boom or bust. I see him as a mediocre-or-bust type guy. His upside looks something like Eddie Kennison's career. His downside, something like Bobby Wade.

For us, a league average receiver who is 6'3" and fast isn't all that bad of a selection, but we certainly [I]could [/I]have done better, and that's going to eat at me for awhile.

Sorry if I let my frustration with the pick influence my assessment of the player. He is a terrible selection though. Hopefully, he can beat the odds and become a starter for us in Washington. We really need it.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;444213]Why do you come out if you are Devin Thomas? Why does it make any sense?

You've had a pretty nice season, but [B]you haven't proved that it can be repeated[/B]. You have a year of eligibility left, why not return to school, get better at your trade, and help your college team win?

If nothing else, we can tell that Devin Thomas was more interested in a pay day than becoming the best wide receiver he can be. Perhaps I'm wrong on him, and he will be good enough to start in this league. But either way, I'm tired of adding players who are in it for the money.

Obviously to an extent, everyones in it for the money. But that didn't stop most players from waiting a year and improving themselves so that they could become the best they could be. Thomas doesn't seem to be worried about improving himself.

Malcolm Kelly came out early, but his touchdown production went from 2, to 10, to 9. He's done it multiple years and is a far superior prospect to Thomas.

I'm sorry to hate on your guy's parade with reality, but we took a guy on hype, and that rarely works out.[/quote]

I think you're going a little too overboard saying the guy isn't interested in improving himself and he's just in it for the money. You don't even know the guy so to make those statements is simply foolish. Perhaps he has family issues. Or perhaps he just doesn't want to risk injury. I don't have a problem with him coming out. I have a problem taking a guy that high just off one year of production.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=Cooley1;444231]Here we go 3 picks away. Who are we taking at 96?[/QUOTE]

Carl Nicks or Dre Moore.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;444233]I think you're going a little too overboard saying the guy isn't interested in improving himself and he's just in it for the money. You don't even know the guy so to make those statements is simply foolish. Perhaps he has family issues. Or perhaps he just doesn't want to risk injury. I don't have a problem with him coming out. I have a problem taking a guy that high just off one year of production.[/quote]Maybe he does have family issues. Perhaps he is worried about injuries. Maybe from a life standpoint, it made total sense to go pro because he needed the money more than he needed to improve his game.

Again, is that the kind of guy we should be looking to add?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;444234]Carl Nicks or Dre Moore.[/QUOTE]

nooooo Josh Barrett *prays*

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;444234]Carl Nicks or Dre Moore.[/quote]Both would be excellent selections. So would Steve Justice.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

With our 3rd round pick (96) the Redskins select: Chad Rinehart OG Northern Iowa