Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1288767]Youre bringing up other things and doing "whataboutism".

Me personally Ive said repeatedly I dont think the cake baker should be required to make a special cake as that calls into his subjective artistic ability. I thought the cake baker was very reasonable. he showed them cake he had already made and offered to sell them any of those.

I dont support the short haired butch lesbian antifa side. Most democrats dont support defund the police or ACAB or antifa.

Religion is and should be protected. You shouldnt be discriminated against for religion, gender, color, race, sexual preference.

-------------------

Religious views should not be used to make and enforce laws. Amy and Brett both took an oath to uphold the law of the US and not put their religious beliefs before the law.[/quote]

This isn’t whatabout, it’s a case based in religious principles which the so called religious Justices refused recently. I think it’s relevant.

I think a little bit is too much is being made of the Texas thing even if I don’t agree with it. But I get the uproar, it’s a one of those sacred cows

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1288770]I'll just respectfully bow out here. Like Chico was saying, there's a middle ground here. Texas is not allowing for that and that's the problem. Often times a woman doesn't even know she's pregnant within 6 weeks. It's just not a reasonable situation.[/quote]

I'll bow out too. I will agree to disagree with a lot of people on this one. And honestly I was discussing abortion in general not this law specifically, which is my bad as that's where this started.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1288755]Calling a weeks old fetus a baby is so weird if you ask me.[/quote]

I understand his position. It's where you believe a fetus becomes a human life. Some believe that is at conception, some believe when it takes it a first breath outside the womb, some when a baby becomes viable outside the womb etc.. You have to oppose ending innocent life so I don't knock those that support a total ban - I just think it is one of the extremes - I do think their tactics and policies undermine more restrictive abortion laws though. I'll admit I'm a bit hypocritical in that I will knock those that think the opposite (first breath outside the womb as they support ending lives of babies that are capable of taking that 1st breath but aren't outside the womb yet).

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288754]You use the word "religion" and we all know you mean Christian like we're some sort of plague. If you're Christian you can't have an opinion. Godless people are the best, they should make all decisions.

And I didn't say fuck you, I said fuck you on that one, where you presume to know what I care about. Then you double down on speaking for me.

If my opinion is abortion bad, yours is abortion good. I'd much rather be on the side of actual life not some BS like well-being.

And as a note - I don't agree with allowing tattle-tales to make money off of being rats.[/quote]

Nobody cares if you're Christian or not, libs care when you start using that as an excuse to dictate how others live their lives.

In other words, don't start no shit - won't be no shit.

Christians love to cry about religious persecution and the government staying out of their affairs, until the subject of abortion comes along. Mind yo fucking business.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288758]Just come out and say it, Christian's shouldn't be allowed in politics. Only atheist should rule us, because they are so pure.[/quote]

I will say it.

Church and state should be separate.

In this case, church means Christianity, since you are the dominate religion of the US continually trying to interfere in politics. Enjoy your tax-exempt status and gtfo out of government decisions.

If it was Muslims trying to ban pork for all Americans you'd be up in arms too.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Let’s remember the golden rule everyone

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1288776]Nobody cares if you're Christian or not, libs care when you start using that as an excuse to dictate how others live their lives.

In other words, don't start no shit - won't be no shit.

Christians love to cry about religious persecution and the government staying out of their affairs, until the subject of abortion comes along. Mind yo fucking business.[/quote]

[IMG]https://c.tenor.com/r-mBXs5HH2EAAAAC/thumbs-up-keanu-reeves.gif[/IMG]

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1288778]I will say it.

Church and state should be separate.

In this case, church means Christianity, since you are the dominate religion of the US continually trying to interfere in politics. Enjoy your tax-exempt status and gtfo out of government decisions.

If it was Muslims trying to ban pork for all Americans you'd be up in arms too.[/quote]

[IMG]https://c.tenor.com/r-mBXs5HH2EAAAAC/thumbs-up-keanu-reeves.gif[/IMG]

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288766]A baby is a human. Wasn't moving any goalposts.

I'll revise:

[B]If a fetus isn't a baby how does it turn into a baby?[/B] We're all constantly in different stages of human-life, starting at formation, until we die. I find it weird that people act like they're not babies, if you ask me.[/quote]

I feel like you're smarter than this.

It takes 9 months to go from an embryo to a living, breathing baby. This next part is uninformed but based on my very minimal research it takes 20ish weeks to get from the stage where it's just a bunch of cells to an actual developed baby.

If this offends you, just think about the millions of kids I've aborted prematurely. They died for my sins.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1288776]Nobody cares if you're Christian or not, libs care when you start using that as an excuse to dictate how others live their lives.

In other words, don't start no shit - won't be no shit.

Christians love to cry about religious persecution and the government staying out of their affairs, until the subject of abortion comes along. Mind yo fucking business.[/quote]

I disagree - If they believe life begins at conception it is morally imperative that they take a stand against abortion. (Again I personally don't believe that life begins at conception but agree one has to oppose abortions at the point one believes that a fetus becomes a baby/human life).

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

What we continuously see, authoritarians hate to have their power checked.

Thank you Supreme Court

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1288783]I feel like you're smarter than this.

It takes 9 months to go from an embryo to a living, breathing baby. This next part is uninformed but based on my very minimal research it takes 20ish weeks to get from the stage where it's just a bunch of cells to an actual developed baby.

If this offends you, just think about the millions of kids I've aborted prematurely. They died for my sins.[/quote]

I believe human/baby/homosapien life begins at conception. That's the formation of my thinking on this matter. I'll leave it at that.

Note - Thanks for that image lol

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288786]I believe human/baby life begins at conception. That's the formation of my thinking on this matter. I'll leave it at that.

Note - Thanks for that image lol[/quote]

I will also respectfully bow out, as we are not going to agree on this matter.

Apologies for my aggressiveness.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1288787]I will also respectfully bow out, as we are not going to agree on this matter.

[B]Apologies for my aggressiveness[/B].[/quote]

Likewise. I'm probably the biggest asshole here on the topic of abortion. I earn a lot of what I get here on the subject.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[url]https://www.insider.com/texas-abortion-ban-would-block-teen-raped-by-grandfather-2021-5[/url]

One last thing and I'm done with the subject. It speaks to the intentions of the writers of the law that a 13 year old girl who was raped by her grandfather would be denied an abortion under the new law.

This is just the start too - other conservative states are just going to copy Texas' law because SCOTUS doesn't have a problem with it.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

There has also been considerable focus on the future of abortion rights based on the concern that Judge Kavanaugh would seek to overturn Roe v. Wade. Protecting this right is important to me. To my knowledge, Judge Kavanaugh is the first Supreme Court nominee to express the view that precedent is not merely a practice and tradition, but rooted in Article 3 of our Constitution itself. He believes that precedent is not just a judicial policy, it is constitutionally dictated to pay attention and pay heed to rules of precedent. In other words, precedent isn’t a goal or an aspiration. It is a constitutional tenet that has to be followed except in the most extraordinary circumstances.

The judge further explained that precedent provides stability, predictability, reliance and fairness. There are, of course, rare and extraordinary times where the Supreme Court would rightly overturn a precedent. The most famous example was when the Supreme Court in Brown vs. The Board of Education overruled Plessy vs. Ferguson, correcting a “grievously wrong decision” to use the judge’s term, allowing racial inequality. But someone who believes that the importance of precedent has been rooted in the Constitution would follow long-established precedent except in those rare circumstances where a decision is grievously wrong or deeply inconsistent with the law. Those are Judge Kavanaugh’s phrases.

As the judge asserted to me, a long-established precedent is not something to be trimmed, narrowed, discarded, or overlooked. Its roots in the Constitution give the concept of stare decisis greater weight simply because a judge might want to on a whim. In short, his views on honoring precedent would preclude attempts to do by stealth that which one has committed not to do overtly.

Noting that Roe v. Wade was decided 45 years ago and reaffirmed 19 years later in Planned Parenthood vs. Casey, I asked Judge Kavanaugh whether the passage of time is relevant to following precedent. He said decisions become part of our legal framework with the passage of time and that honoring precedent is essential to maintaining public confidence. Our discussion then turned to the right of privacy on which the Supreme Court relied in Griswold vs. Connecticut, a case that struck down a law banning the use and sale of contraceptions. Griswold established the legal foundation that led to roe eight years later. In describing Griswold as settled law, Judge Kavanaugh observed that it was the correct application of two famous cases from the 1920’s, Meyer and Pierce that are not seriously challenged by anyone today.

Finally, in his testimony, he noted repeatedly that Roe had been upheld by Planned Parenthood vs. Casey, describing it as a precedent. When I asked him would it be sufficient to overturn a long-established precedent if five current justices believed that it was wrongly decided, he emphatically said “no.”

[url]https://www.vox.com/2018/10/5/17943276/susan-collins-speech-transcript-full-text-kavanaugh-vote[/url]

Precedents ... what are they and how do they work?

I guess "precedents" will change whenever the bench changes.

Dangerous. SCOTUS is becoming a political football to be kicked around the field by whoever has the ball.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288788]Likewise. I'm probably the biggest asshole here on the topic of abortion. I earn a lot of what I get here on the subject.[/quote]

Other than this subject I don't have any beef with you, but at least we can respectfully disagree on this.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288739]Can't believe "conservatives" here are having a discussion about when killing a baby is OK or not OK. Like there is some sort of magic drop-dead date.

......

[url]https://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2020/02/25/abortion-the-overlooked-tragedy-for-black-americans/[/url][/quote]

Not all conservatives (I'd venture to say most) believe that human life begins at conception.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Went to a few sites, including Rueters and AP, to try to find some political news that a majority of both sides would agree on. Really couldn't find anything. No wonder why we seem way more divided than ever.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Just something to change the conversation to a different topic. This is about the Fair Tax/National Sales Tax.

I'm not promoting it, just an article I read:

[url]https://thecollegeinvestor.com/35525/what-is-the-fair-tax/[/url]

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

I think my favorite reaction about the Texas thing outrage is the conspiracy theories are back from Blue Anon on social media…

Who PAID OFF Kavanaugh debt??

Why did Judge Kennedy suddenly Retire??


😂…those always getting me rolling around laughing

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Press Secretary = Worst job in America

You have to be at least a little insane to want that job.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Regardless of the abortion aspect. They have legalized thought crime in the state. You have a pregnant woman stop and look at clinic on the street and she can now be sued have to pay 10k and pay the legal fees for the person suing her. It is Orwellian at its finest.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1288818]Regardless of the abortion aspect. They have legalized thought crime in the state. You have a pregnant woman stop and look at clinic on the street and she can now be sued have to pay 10k and pay the legal fees for the person suing her. It is Orwellian at its finest.[/quote]

Just what we need in America, turn more of us against each other. Good work Texas /s. Ridiculous to profit off of something like that. I could never imagine how hard actually having an abortion is. I'd imagine 99% of them are done with a heavy heart. While I disagree with abortion, I wouldn't ever want to be a woman in a position to even contemplate it. You would have to be a pretty big POS to try to get money off of it.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1288818]Regardless of the abortion aspect. They have legalized thought crime in the state. You have a pregnant woman stop and look at clinic on the street and she can now be sued have to pay 10k and pay the legal fees for the person suing her. It is Orwellian at its finest.[/quote]

I found this to be the most bizarre part of an already bizarre situation.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1288810]I think my favorite reaction about the Texas thing outrage is the conspiracy theories are back from Blue Anon on social media…

Who PAID OFF Kavanaugh debt??

Why did Judge Kennedy suddenly Retire??


😂…those always getting me rolling around laughing[/quote]

Yet you push many of their theory's yourself in your own post's.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1288818]Regardless of the abortion aspect. They have legalized thought crime in the state. You have a pregnant woman stop and look at clinic on the street and she can now be sued have to pay 10k and pay the legal fees for the person suing her. It is Orwellian at its finest.[/quote]

[url]https://news.yahoo.com/chief-justice-roberts-3-other-063747804.html[/url]

Chief Justice Roberts, 3 other dissenters slam colleagues for hastily rewarding Texas 'bounty hunter' abortion ban scheme


A sharply divided Supreme Court early Thursday said it will not block a new Texas law that deputizes any Texan to enforce a six-week ban on abortions. Five justices — Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett — explained in a brief, unsigned majority opinion that the abortion advocates asking for an emergency stay "raised serious questions regarding the constitutionality of the Texas law at issue," but they were unable to untangle the "complex and novel antecedent procedural questions" raised by the law.

The four dissenters — Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor, and Elena Kagan — argued in separate rebuttals that their five colleagues, without any real debate, were rewarding Texas lawmakers for inventing a novel scheme to stomp on decades of Supreme Court precedent.

"The statutory scheme before the Court is not only unusual, but unprecedented," Roberts wrote, and he would have granted "preliminary relief" at least until "the courts may consider whether a state can avoid responsibility for its laws in such a manner." Instead, the court allowed the law to take effect before lower courts weighed in, "without ordinary merits briefing, and without oral argument."

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288807]Went to a few sites, including Rueters and AP, to try to find some political news that a majority of both sides would agree on. Really couldn't find anything. No wonder why we seem way more divided than ever.[/quote]

Well one easy one is that a majority of both sides did want to surrender in Afghanistan. How it was done is what the groups that wanted to surrender are debating.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1288818]Regardless of the abortion aspect. They have legalized thought crime in the state. You have a pregnant woman stop and look at clinic on the street and she can now be sued have to pay 10k and pay the legal fees for the person suing her. It is Orwellian at its finest.[/quote]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't sue the woman directly for getting an abortion, but you could creepily follow her to an abortion clinic and then accuse the clinic of giving abortions and if you win they give you 10 grand and pay your legal bills.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1288832]................................ surrender .[/quote]

You don't seem to understand what this word means yet you keep using it.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1288849]Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't sue the woman directly for getting an abortion, but you could creepily follow her to an abortion clinic and then accuse the clinic of giving abortions and if you win they give you 10 grand and pay your legal bills.[/quote]

Youre right. You cant sue or punish the woman directly which is how they are trying to get around the "undue burden". Also by having citizens do it, its not govt action.

A random person doesnt have standing despite Texas legislature trying to create some new jurisprudence.

This will be struck down but the 5 justices allowing it to go forward ... absolutely going against their oath to uphold the law.

Like I said .. very dangerous for the SCOTUS seemingly becoming political. To sit on it is political bc they knew if they acted they would have to strike an unconstitutional law down.

How conservatives can cheer this on .. sad.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1288883]Youre right. You cant sue or punish the woman directly which is how they are trying to get around the "undue burden". Also by having citizens do it, its not govt action.

A random person doesnt have standing despite Texas legislature trying to create some new jurisprudence.

This will be struck down but the 5 justices allowing it to go forward ... absolutely going against their oath to uphold the law.

Like I said .. [B]very dangerous for the SCOTUS seemingly becoming political. [/B]To sit on it is political bc they knew if they acted they would have to strike an unconstitutional law down.

How conservatives can cheer this on .. sad.[/quote]

This. Now that SCOTUS is no longer immune to politics this will push the divide further.

I don't expect Dems to act on it though or to use it to push voters to the polls. I expected a bigger margin in 2020 after 4 years of Trump and the only thing it showed me was conservatives rose up to meet the challenge. If libs stay home next year thinking that everything's gravy because we hold the slimmest of margins in Congress we are going to get our asses kicked and things will get worse.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1288888]This. Now that SCOTUS is no longer immune to politics this will push the divide further.

I don't expect Dems to act on it though or to use it to push voters to the polls. I expected a bigger margin in 2020 after 4 years of Trump and the only thing it showed me was conservatives rose up to meet the challenge. If libs stay home next year thinking that everything's gravy because we hold the slimmest of margins in Congress we are going to get our asses kicked and things will get worse.[/quote]

Breyer needs to step down, we cant afford another RBG.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Weird to see “we don’t need political justices” but then see “we need political justices on our side.”

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1288890]Weird to see “we don’t need political justices” but then see “we need political justices on our side.”[/quote]

Fair point, irony is not lost on me ... you can thank Mitch for playing politics with the bench. It got him an extra seat.

An extra seat gained by political gamemanship of party over Country. An extra seat for the explicit purpose of providing political and not constitutional results. An extra seat to do exactly what they have done with Texas.

Me personally, ive lost a lot of respect for the SCOTUS. It doesnt stand for what it is supposed to. Justices and laws are supposed to supersede and live above the political game of musical chairs.

Im sure in my lifetime we will see the SCOTUS made a farce. Just add a zillion justices to make it what it is, a kangaroo court portending to be neutral and unbiased to political affiliation.

------------

regardless of what you think about abortion or when the cutoff should be ... you cannot argue that Roe v Wade and its predecessors are not established Constitutional law ... that the conservative 5 have decided to play politics with.

^^ you cant argue against this. Roe is the established law of the land. SCOTUS playing games to get around it without actually addressing it .. shameful.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Lol…Roe vs Wade exists, it hasn’t been changed. The Texas law centers on fetal heartbeat. I get you don’t like it. I mean here in Virginia some fucking lunatic tried to pass a state law saying you could kill a child up to time of birth, on the day of birth.

Honest to god question, which turns your stomach more?

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1288895]Lol…Roe vs Wade exists, it hasn’t been changed. The Texas law centers on fetal heartbeat. I get you don’t like it. I mean here in Virginia some fucking lunatic tried to pass a state law saying you could kill a child up to time of birth, on the day of birth.

Honest to god question, which turns your stomach more?[/quote]

The VA law would have allowed euthanization of a baby born that couldnt live on its own or serious deformities.

Honest answer - the VA. But one was shot down quickly and the other was actually made law.

--

honest question to you - do you think the 5 justices allowing the Texas law to go into effect without staying it until arguments could be heard is political judicial activism?

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1288899]The VA law would have allowed euthanization of a baby born that couldnt live on its own or serious deformities.

Honest answer - the VA. But one was shot down quickly and the other was actually made law.

--

honest question to you - do you think the 5 justices allowing the Texas law to go into effect without staying it until arguments could be heard is political judicial activism?[/quote]

Well there is always Vermont's 2019 law.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1288899]The VA law would have allowed euthanization of a baby born that couldnt live on its own or serious deformities.

Honest answer - the VA. But one was shot down quickly and the other was actually made law.

--

honest question to you - do you think the 5 justices allowing the Texas law to go into effect without staying it until arguments could be heard is political judicial activism?[/quote]

Im not sure. I really didn’t look at there reasons why or don’t know if I would entirely understand it. But like I’ve said I do disagree with the law. As I disagree with New York and the attempt here in VA. But I do know roe vs wade still stands

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1288889]Breyer needs to step down, we cant afford another RBG.[/quote]

??? That's effing crazy , we need about 4 more of her!