Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1289091]The number of justices has changed several times throughout history but we've somehow survived.[/quote]

Previous changes weren't normally done for political or policy reasons, this proposal specifically would be for political reasons. If you expand the court for an administrative reason (need to to handle a larger workload) that is one thing, if you expand the court in order to get your policies enacted that is a different animal entirely. These current proposals are for the later and would destroy the court.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1289125]The court is already destroyed in our minds. Even if Roberts swings liberal on occasion conservatives have enough votes to enact any policy they desire. Is that a fair representation to the people of America?

We're already looking at a kangaroo court whether you agree or disagree - packing it would only make it official.[/quote]

Was it a fair representation when there were more liberal judges than conservatives? Or did it just get destroyed in the past few years when Cavanaugh and Barrett got onto the bench?

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

As I previously stated, I disagree with McConnell and the republican party on how they handled the Garland nomination. That should have went thru the normal process and there was way more than enough time to get it done.

But they absolutely had the right to get Barrett onto the court. And to pretend like democrats wouldn't have done the exact same thing if they could is disingenuous at best.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1289126]“When we had the majority on the court it was fair, now it’s not fair because we don’t”

Let’s change laws because we are authoritarian fascists[/quote]

I'm not talking about the majority, I'm talking about 4 dems, 4 republicans, and 1 moderate - which in this case would be John Roberts. That was as fair as it gets. The highest court in this country is worthless if it's not fair.

Now it's 6-3 - unless you are saying there is twice as many conservatives in this country as liberals there is 0% chance any liberal policy that isn't established by precedent (and even that is not a sure thing anymore) will be entertained.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Going further in this thread out of respect, refer to McConnell as the Apex Predator because he sits on top, alone, of the food chain. There is none higher

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1289129]Previous changes weren't normally done for political or policy reasons, this proposal specifically would be for political reasons. If you expand the court for an administrative reason (need to to handle a larger workload) that is one thing, if you expand the court in order to get your policies enacted that is a different animal entirely. These current proposals are for the later and would destroy the court.[/quote]

ACB's nomination was purely political. Garland's denial was purely political. Not issuing an injunction on an obviously political law that will eventually get shot down was purely political.

When we used to play nice and fair - everything was fine. Now we don't. Your side has no respect for the institution anymore and then you ask us to play nice? You reap what you sow.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1289125]The court is already destroyed in our minds. Even if Roberts swings liberal on occasion conservatives have enough votes to enact any policy they desire. Is that a fair representation to the people of America?

We're already looking at a kangaroo court whether you agree or disagree - packing it would only make it official.[/quote]


Liberals controlled the Court from the 50s thru 70s - didn't see Conservatives demanding the destruction of the court.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1289126]“When we had the majority on the court it was fair, now it’s not fair because we don’t”

......[/quote]

Chico is spot on with this comment

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

All this hot air for something very unlikely to happen.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1289137]Liberals controlled the Court from the 50s thru 70s - didn't see Conservatives demanding the destruction of the court.[/quote]

Remind me again what important decisions were handed down during that time that showed a clear and obvious contempt for established law and/or precedent?

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1289141]Remind me again what important decisions were handed down during that time that showed a clear and obvious contempt for established law and/or precedent?[/quote]

Roe versus Wade.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1289133]I'm not talking about the majority, I'm talking about 4 dems, 4 republicans, and 1 moderate - which in this case would be John Roberts. That was as fair as it gets. The highest court in this country is worthless if it's not fair.

Now it's 6-3 - unless you are saying there is twice as many conservatives in this country as liberals there is 0% chance any liberal policy that isn't established by precedent (and even that is not a sure thing anymore) will be entertained.[/quote]

It will be one sided until the end of time now. A democrat is never going to nominate a conservative judge or visa-versa, to try to be fair and even. Not sure if this was ever done or it was just more balanced than now as a coincidence.

Everything is political now and that's not on the Supreme Court that it got this way. They don't nominate themselves or play a role on getting confirmed.

They are on the court and need to do their jobs right regardless of what way they lean.

The problem lies with our government and us. Now every time a decision doesn't go our way it's not because there is no chance in hell they made an unbiased decision that they believe is the correct decision, its because they are a biased liberal/conservative playing party politics. This goes back to well before this Texas law.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1289139]All this hot air for something very unlikely to happen.[/quote]

+1

Packing the court wouldn't even be entertained if conservatives respected the idea that SCOTUS is above partisan politics.

Even right now it's only entertained by the most hardcore libs. Good luck getting Joe Manchin to sign off on it.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1289110]
Your atheism is no less of a religion than my Christianity. Hopefully you find Jesus one day. I'll say a prayer for you today.[/quote]

There are 33 millions "gods"in Hinduism? Do you also believe in them? Do you believe in Islam? Moromism and the goal plates?

No?

Fact is the difference btw me and you is that I dont believe in 1 more god than you. Just 1 more. (This is from a comedian). But this isnt about the validity of religion or ones right to practice their religion. No matter how hard you try and steer the conversation towards some false equivalency "freedom of religion". This is about freedom from religion.

No one is saying you cant be christian or go to church. But you know that.

I think you can understand the importance of separation from church and state, importance of justices to apply US law and not the bible. You just choose not to. You talk in bad faith.

You play obtuse on here sometimes and it makes talking with you pointless.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1289146]There are 33 millions "gods"in Hinduism? Do you also believe in them? Do you believe in Islam? Moromism and the goal plates?

No?

Fact is the difference btw me and you is that I dont believe in 1 more god than you. Just 1 more. (This is from a comedian). But this isnt about the validity of religion or ones right to practice their religion. No matter how hard you try and steer the conversation towards some false equivalency "freedom of religion". This is about freedom from religion.

No one is saying you cant be christian or go to church. But you know that.

I think you can understand the importance of separation from church and state, importance of justices to apply US law and not the bible. You just choose not to. You talk in bad faith.

You play obtuse on here sometimes and it makes talking with you pointless.[/quote]

All of those religions are no less of a religion than Christianity either. I don't get your point. I don't care what people choose to believe. And I'd bet they get most of their values and morals from their beliefs too. My point was that if you believe in 0 gods or 1 million gods, those are no less of a religion than any other belief system.

There is nothing in the constitution that says freedom from religion or separation of church and state. But I think you know that and are just being obtuse.

Your basic argument, and we know you only attack Christianity, is that if you believe in God, your values are irrelevant and shouldn't be allowed in making decisions. Call me whatever you want, this is your argument.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1289143]Roe versus Wade.[/quote]

And who was the driving force behind reforming state abortion law that started happening before Roe v. Wade made abortion a national policy?

Christians. Who were basing the policy off Christianity. Which has no place in politics.

It's a matter of privacy now, as it was then. Imagine thinking you have the right to invade someone else's privacy just because you don't like what they do in their free time.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1289104]I don't get why abortion is the number 1 most important thing to the democratic party as a whole. It really is mind-blowing. Throw the whole system out because 1 state passed a law banning abortions after 6 weeks.[/quote]

You really think that is what this is about??? This is about a political factor wanting to control the SC for their own purpose's. The [B]RIGHT WING NUTS, TEA PARTY< whatever you want to call them[/B] want to over turn laws that have been ruled on for Decades. Republican's chose Abortion.......not Democrat's be honest at least.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1289146]There are 33 millions "gods"in Hinduism? Do you also believe in them? Do you believe in Islam? Moromism and the goal plates?

No?

Fact is the difference btw me and you is that I dont believe in 1 more god than you. Just 1 more. (This is from a comedian). But this isnt about the validity of religion or ones right to practice their religion. No matter how hard you try and steer the conversation towards some false equivalency "freedom of religion". This is about freedom from religion.

No one is saying you cant be christian or go to church. But you know that.

I think you can understand the importance of separation from church and state, importance of justices to apply US law and not the bible. You just choose not to. You talk in bad faith.

You play obtuse on here sometimes and it makes talking with you pointless.[/quote]



...........he ain't playing.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Greg Abbott might have jumped Trump on the dumb ladder.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[IMG]https://i.redd.it/30ev9mb0cgm71.jpg[/IMG]

Not my argument but I agree with it.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[url]https://www.frc.org/brochure/the-best-pro-life-arguments-for-secular-audiences[/url]

The link has a PDF. Doubt anyone will read it. But what the hell. It's written towards giving me secular arguments to share with others.

Key part about life begging at conception:

At the moment when a human sperm penetrates a human ovum, or egg, generally in the upper portion of the Fallopian Tube, a new entity comes into existence. “Zygote” is the name of the first cell formed at conception, the earliest developmental stage of the human embryo, followed by the “Morula” and “Blastocyst” stages.

Is it human? Is it alive? Is it just a cell or is it an actual organism, a “being?” These are logical questions.

The zygote is composed of human DNA and other human molecules, so its nature is undeniably human and not some other species.This DNA includes a complete “design,” guiding not only early development but even hereditary attributes that will appear in childhood and adulthood, from hair, sex, and eye color to personality traits.

It is also quite clear that the earliest human embryo is biologically alive. It fulfills the four criteria needed to establish biological life: metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction. Finally, is the human zygote merely a new kind of cell or is it a human organism; that is, a human being? Scientists define an organism as a
complex structure of interdependent elements constituted to carry on the activities of life by separately-functioning but mutually dependent organs.

The human zygote meets this definition with ease. Once formed, it initiates a complex sequence of events to ready it for continued development and growth: The zygote acts immediately and decisively to initiate a program of development that will, if uninterrupted by accident, disease, or external intervention, proceed seamlessly through formation of the definitive body, birth, childhood, adolescence, maturity, and aging,
ending with death. This coordinated behavior is the very hallmark of an organism.

By contrast, while a mere collection of human cells may carry on the activities of cellular life, it will not exhibit coordinated interactions directed towards a higher level of organization.

My note - All this being said on both sides, I'm sure not 1 person here has changed their mind 1% on either side. Standard Warpath political argument procedure. Go Tampa!

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1289181][IMG]https://i.redd.it/30ev9mb0cgm71.jpg[/IMG]

[/quote]

I understand why it isn't your argument as it isn't a good one. The counter argument is the woman already donated her uterus (Ie it wasn't an immaculate conception) so using this analogy she would be arguing that she wants her bone marrow, organ etc back after it has already been provided to the other individual.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1289181][IMG]https://i.redd.it/30ev9mb0cgm71.jpg[/IMG]

Not my argument but I agree with it.[/quote]

I will admit I never heard it put in that way, interesting for sure.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Kamala Harris is about as useful as a can of beans. That is all I wanted to say today about politics.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1289344]Kamala Harris is about as useful as a can of beans. That is all I wanted to say today about politics.[/QUOTE]


What do you want to see from her? Just curious not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

White liberal wearing a monkey mask throwing egg at a black conservative. Nothing to see here. There is that liberal tolerance I'm always hearing about.

[IMG]https://thepinkreportnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/white-woman-in-gorilla-mask-throws-egg-at-black-republican-california-gubernatorial-candidate-larry-elder.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1289350]White liberal wearing a monkey mask throwing egg at a black conservative. Nothing to see here. There is that liberal tolerance I'm always hearing about.

[IMG]https://thepinkreportnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/white-woman-in-gorilla-mask-throws-egg-at-black-republican-california-gubernatorial-candidate-larry-elder.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Just imagine a black democratic governor candidate with the same attacker.

It’s the top story in the world for several days…it would be the most talked about story in the country for multiple weeks and would dominate print media and social media. Hashtags, marches, etc

This isn’t right no matter who is running.

Today’s media is the enemy of the people period. Liberals cowardness to ignore the story is predictable as ever

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1289161]Greg Abbott might have jumped Trump on the dumb ladder.[/quote]

Might have?

God how fucking oblivious is this guy? He wants "right to choose" when it comes to vaccines. Can't make this shit up.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1289198][url]https://www.frc.org/brochure/the-best-pro-life-arguments-for-secular-audiences[/url]

The link has a PDF. Doubt anyone will read it. But what the hell. It's written towards giving me secular arguments to share with others.

Key part about life begging at conception:

At the moment when a human sperm penetrates a human ovum, or egg, generally in the upper portion of the Fallopian Tube, a new entity comes into existence. “Zygote” is the name of the first cell formed at conception, the earliest developmental stage of the human embryo, followed by the “Morula” and “Blastocyst” stages.

Is it human? Is it alive? Is it just a cell or is it an actual organism, a “being?” These are logical questions.

The zygote is composed of human DNA and other human molecules, so its nature is undeniably human and not some other species.This DNA includes a complete “design,” guiding not only early development but even hereditary attributes that will appear in childhood and adulthood, from hair, sex, and eye color to personality traits.

It is also quite clear that the earliest human embryo is biologically alive. It fulfills the four criteria needed to establish biological life: metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction. Finally, is the human zygote merely a new kind of cell or is it a human organism; that is, a human being? Scientists define an organism as a
complex structure of interdependent elements constituted to carry on the activities of life by separately-functioning but mutually dependent organs.

The human zygote meets this definition with ease. Once formed, it initiates a complex sequence of events to ready it for continued development and growth: The zygote acts immediately and decisively to initiate a program of development that will, if uninterrupted by accident, disease, or external intervention, proceed seamlessly through formation of the definitive body, birth, childhood, adolescence, maturity, and aging,
ending with death. This coordinated behavior is the very hallmark of an organism.

By contrast, while a mere collection of human cells may carry on the activities of cellular life, it will not exhibit coordinated interactions directed towards a higher level of organization.

My note - All this being said on both sides, I'm sure not 1 person here has changed their mind 1% on either side. Standard Warpath political argument procedure. Go Tampa![/quote]

First I love how you put actual scientific terms of development stages in quotations. That made me laugh.

I think you know where I stand on a woman's right to choose. I do share your opinion that an embryo, even if it is pretty much a mass of undifferentiated cells is living, it is biological after all. Personally I find abortion to be heinous and I feel sorry for anyone that has made or has to make that decision it cannot be easy.

To me I just don't see how restricting it resolves the issue. We have one of the highest abortion rates of all developed countries and this is despite other countries having far less restrictive abortion laws. To me it is a healthcare issue we have such shitty access to family planning and birth control in this country that there are developing countries with far better reproductive infrastructure than we do (I'm looking at you Thailand). If we really want to have a significant decrease in abortion that is what we would be addressing, but we don't and thus here we are.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1289350]White liberal wearing a monkey mask throwing egg at a black conservative. Nothing to see here. There is that [B]liberal tolerance [/B]I'm always hearing about.

[IMG]https://thepinkreportnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/white-woman-in-gorilla-mask-throws-egg-at-black-republican-california-gubernatorial-candidate-larry-elder.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

That is a label given to us by conservatives. I have never said I am tolerant and I am certainly not tolerant of stupidity (not referring to you btw). Regardless of who stupidity is voting for.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1289388]First I love how you put actual scientific terms of development stages in quotations. That made me laugh.

I think you know where I stand on a woman's right to choose. I do share your opinion that an embryo, even if it is pretty much a mass of undifferentiated cells is living, it is biological after all. Personally I find abortion to be heinous and I feel sorry for anyone that has made or has to make that decision it cannot be easy.

To me I just don't see how restricting it resolves the issue. We have one of the highest abortion rates of all developed countries and this is despite other countries having far less restrictive abortion laws. To me it is a healthcare issue we have such shitty access to family planning and birth control in this country that there are developing countries with far better reproductive infrastructure than we do (I'm looking at you Thailand). If we really want to have a significant decrease in abortion that is what we would be addressing, but we don't and thus here we are.[/quote]

I would like to take credit for that. But I just copied and pasted from the PDF.

Another thing to add to your points, the adoption process is ridiculous both in time and money to get approved. That's another process (much like legal immigration) that needs to be streamlined. It would be helpful if people that were pregnant could be put face to face with future parents that would want to adopt your baby before any decisions are made.

I'm all for spending all resources available (not including making laws against it) on ways to reduce the number of abortions in this country. I can't think of a more worthy cause to spend resources on.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1289352]Just imagine a black democratic governor candidate with the same attacker.

It’s the top story in the world for several days…it would be the most talked about story in the country for multiple weeks and would dominate print media and social media. Hashtags, marches, etc

This isn’t right no matter who is running.

Today’s media is the enemy of the people period. Liberals cowardness to ignore the story is predictable as ever[/quote]

You're all over the place with this. First with imaginary scenarios and ending with blaming all of us for ignoring the story?

Oh god the humanity! Won't the egg-throwing ever stop! Where do we draw the line? I haven't seen such sick indifference to human life since Saw 4!

;) Happy now?

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1289389]That is a label given to us by conservatives. I have never said I am tolerant and I am certainly not tolerant of stupidity (not referring to you btw). Regardless of who stupidity is voting for.[/quote]

Shh b-more, don't you dare criticize this nitwit for her stupidity. She's one of us, we have to protect her at all costs!

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1289361]Might have?

God how fucking oblivious is this guy? He wants "right to choose" when it comes to vaccines. Can't make this shit up.[/QUOTE]


Your right. It is just hard to wrap my head around the fact that Trump has someone beat in the brain department.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1289389]That is a label given to us by conservatives. I have never said I am tolerant and I am certainly not tolerant of stupidity (not referring to you btw). Regardless of who stupidity is voting for.[/quote]

I think the main point of this is the hypocrisy of the media and other institutions. If Elder had been a Dem there would have been stories plastered all over the Media (it would have been a major topic for the Sunday shows) and almost certainly the woman would have been charged with a hate crime by California or even the US AG. The message delivered by the left here is it actually is ok to be racist as long as you target the right people.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1289473]I think the main point of this is the hypocrisy of the media and other institutions. If Elder had been a Dem there would have been stories plastered all over the Media (it would have been a major topic for the Sunday shows) and almost certainly the woman would have been charged with a hate crime by California or even the US AG. The message delivered by the left here is it actually is ok to be racist as long as you target the right people.[/quote]

^this

It’s an embarrassment from the left.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1289651]^this

It’s an embarrassment from the left.[/quote]

To believe this is from "the left" is pure ignorance . You haven't a clue who the left is .

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1289473]I think the main point of this is the hypocrisy of the media and other institutions. If Elder had been a Dem there would have been stories plastered all over the Media (it would have been a major topic for the Sunday shows) and almost certainly the woman would have been charged with a hate crime by California or even the US AG. [B] The message delivered by the left here is it actually is ok to be racist as long as you target the right people.[/B][/quote]

That's a big conclusion to make based off whose (our?) indifference to some dumbass lady throwing an egg at a politician.

Maybe we would speak up more about what a terrible act it was if it would make a difference. But it won't, next event where a dem does some dumb shit you guys are still going to jump all over it like we approve of it even if we don't.

Two can play this game too.

[url]https://www.kbtx.com/2021/09/10/affidavit-texas-man-murdered-woman-shot-her-husband-because-they-voted-biden/[/url]

"Nutjob conservative shoots couple, killing one, because they endorsed Biden."

Based off the lack of outcry from conservatives everywhere I have come to the conclusion conservatives endorse this man's actions.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1289972]That's a big conclusion to make based off whose (our?) indifference to some dumbass lady throwing an egg at a politician.

Maybe we would speak up more about what a terrible act it was if it would make a difference. But it won't, next event where a dem does some dumb shit you guys are still going to jump all over it like we approve of it even if we don't.

Two can play this game too.

[url]https://www.kbtx.com/2021/09/10/affidavit-texas-man-murdered-woman-shot-her-husband-because-they-voted-biden/[/url]

"Nutjob conservative shoots couple, killing one, because they endorsed Biden."

Based off the lack of outcry from conservatives everywhere I have come to the conclusion conservatives endorse this man's actions.[/quote]


You're making too much sense.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=nonniey;1289473]I think the main point of this is the hypocrisy of the media and other institutions. If Elder had been a Dem there would have been stories plastered all over the Media (it would have been a major topic for the Sunday shows) and almost certainly the woman would have been charged with a hate crime by California or even the US AG. The message delivered by the left here is it actually is ok to be racist as long as you target the right people.[/QUOTE]


Is this actually you Chico??
If you dont like being part of the shit party than change party’s but stop grasping for straws. It is weak.