Re: Cousins has arrived
 

[quote=Schneed10;1137893]I'm going to just throw this up against the wall and see if it sticks.

Scenario: let's say negotiations don't go well with Cousins, his agent's demands are outrageous, so McCloughan slaps the franchise tag on him.

Remember, players under the franchise tag can sign offer sheets elsewhere. The Redskins would then have the option to match the offer sheet or let him go and take two first round picks in return.

Let's say he signs that offer sheet. Would you take the picks, or match the deal? Obviously your answer might be 'depends on how much the offer sheet is for'. Feel free to set a limit.

I know what I would do but curious to hear. And for the record I don't think the negotiations ever get to this stage. But for shits and giggles, as they say.[/quote]

Match the deal if it is in the ball park.

QB is the most important position on any team.

The fair market value for a decent QB has gone through the roof over the past few years. It's a QB league.

Pay the man his money, and enjoy the stability that comes with having a QB who can win.

Re: Cousins has arrived
 

[quote=Schneed10;1137893]I'm going to just throw this up against the wall and see if it sticks.

Scenario: let's say negotiations don't go well with Cousins, his agent's demands are outrageous, so McCloughan slaps the franchise tag on him.

Remember, players under the franchise tag can sign offer sheets elsewhere. The Redskins would then have the option to match the offer sheet or let him go and take two first round picks in return.

Let's say he signs that offer sheet. Would you take the picks, or match the deal? Obviously your answer might be 'depends on how much the offer sheet is for'. Feel free to set a limit.

I know what I would do but curious to hear. And for the record I don't think the negotiations ever get to this stage. But for shits and giggles, as they say.[/quote]

This could have been a possibility if Mike Shanahan got the SF job.

Re: Cousins has arrived
 

[quote=Schneed10;1137893]...Let's say he signs that offer sheet. Would you take the picks, or match the deal? Obviously your answer might be 'depends on how much the offer sheet is for'. Feel free to set a limit....[/quote]For shits and giggles....2 first round picks.....tough to walk away from. A team can change their fortunes with 2 first round picks. Especially since we have Scott calling the shots now when it comes to the draft.

By the same token, a potential franchise QB is tough to walk away from.

But with 2 first round picks you could theoretically draft another potential franchise QB and add another premiere talent...say a #1 WR or NT or DL.

In a vacuum I would take the picks.

But after what this team has been through at the QB position and the difficulty/uncertainty with Jay (or any HC really) with finding and grooming a QB and the lack of having a viable development QB on the roster if Kirk left.....despite wanting those picks I would have to match the deal.

Re: Cousins has arrived
 

it'd be hard to say "let's start over" after not having a QB for most of the last 15 years. if it's 20m+ per year you might have to consider it, but man, that'd be rough.

Re: Cousins has arrived
 

Yeah just something interesting to think about. I think there's no way it gets to that stage, I think Cousins really wants to be here and McCloughan and Gruden really want him here.

Cousins just wants to make sure that he feels 'wanted' by the Redskins, so he'll be looking for a serious opening offer ($12M a year will not convey 'wanted'). If he gets it, the negotiation will go quick. He really doesn't strike me as the type to haggle over an extra $1M and be willing to push the negotiations to hardball phase to get it.

I think they strike a deal well before we get to the franchise tag decision.

Re: Cousins has arrived
 

Here's average annual value of contracts for QBs who are not currently on their rookie deals. I'm also excluding bum starting QBs like Matt Cassell, and backups, so you can get a feel for the market.

Aaron Rodgers $22,000,000
Russell Wilson $21,900,000
Ben Roethlisberger $21,850,000
Eli Manning $21,000,000
Philip Rivers $20,812,500
Cam Newton $20,760,000
Matt Ryan $20,750,000
Joe Flacco $20,100,000
Drew Brees $20,000,000
Ryan Tannehill $19,250,000
Colin Kaepernick $19,000,000
Jay Cutler $18,100,000
Tony Romo $18,000,000
Matt Stafford $17,666,667
Alex Smith $17,000,000
Peyton Manning $17,000,000
Carson Palmer $16,500,000
Andy Dalton $16,000,000
Sam Bradford $13,000,000
Nick Foles $12,250,000
Tom Brady $9,000,000

First thing that jumps out is that Brady took a huge hometown discount. Easy to do that when your wife is a mega millionaire SuperModel. Some life, huh.

So Brady really needs to be excluded from the analysis.

It's also important to consider when each of these deals were signed. Wilson was very recent, which partially explains why he's so expensive. Meanwhile Peyton's deal was executed back before the 2012 season, so if you want to estimate what that deal would look like now, it'd be a bit more.

Then you play the overpaid/underpaid game in your mind. Eli, Flacco, Ryan, Tannehill and Rivers feel a little overpaid to me. Brady, Palmer and Dalton (given this past season), look a little underpaid.

So you think about where Cousins should go and you could say you have a hard time seeing why he deserves to get more than Brees or Cam Newton at the $20M mark. But you say does he deserve every bit of what Alex Smith and Matt Stafford are getting at the $17M mark? Probably.

McCloughan can argue that Cousins only has one year under his belt so this represents a risk for the Redskins, and push for $17M. I don't think Cousins will haggle to get up to $18M or $19M.

I think they get it done well before tag time.

Re: Cousins has arrived
 

And if Cousins does haggle for $18M, I don't think McCloughan would balk. This is definitely going to be a conciliatory negotiation.

Re: Cousins has arrived
 

[quote=Schneed10;1137930]Yeah just something interesting to think about. I think there's no way it gets to that stage, I think Cousins really wants to be here and McCloughan and Gruden really want him here.

Cousins just wants to make sure that he feels 'wanted' by the Redskins, so he'll be looking for a serious opening offer ($12M a year will not convey 'wanted'). If he gets it, the negotiation will go quick. He really doesn't strike me as the type to haggle over an extra $1M and be willing to push the negotiations to hardball phase to get it.

I think they strike a deal well before we get to the franchise tag decision.[/quote]

I think 15m a year will be a solid starting point. I don't expect him to get 20m a year but perhaps they split the difference and he winds up around 17m a year. For me a similar deal would be Kaep's. If we could give him a contract that gives him relative long term security but also gives us an out if last year turned out to be a one year deal that would be fine with me.

Re: Cousins has arrived
 

[quote=30gut;1137908]For shits and giggles....2 first round picks.....tough to walk away from. A team can change their fortunes with 2 first round picks. Especially since we have Scott calling the shots now when it comes to the draft.

By the same token, a potential franchise QB is tough to walk away from.

But with 2 first round picks you could theoretically draft another potential franchise QB and add another premiere talent...say a #1 WR or NT or DL.

In a vacuum I would take the picks.

But after what this team has been through at the QB position and the difficulty/uncertainty with Jay (or any HC really) with finding and grooming a QB and the lack of having a viable development QB on the roster if Kirk left.....despite wanting those picks I would have to match the deal.[/quote]

Umm yea.

Who is going to be the QB of the Rams next year?

Re: Cousins has arrived
 

Take the picks and roll with Colt McCoy as the starter, surely I jest, pay the man. We had 2 picks in the top 5 in 1 year before and didn't win anything. We need a QB and we have one. He isn't leaving. So if you're not on board you better get on board. This coming from a guy that wanted RG3 to start as late as a few games into the season.

Re: Cousins has arrived
 

if alex smith is getting 17m, you probably cant offer kirk 15. if you're not sure he's real, guarantee the first 2 years fully or something.

as far as how contentious the negotiations are, that depends entirely on his agent and their relationship. one would hope it's no big deal, but until he's signed, you never know.

Re: Cousins has arrived
 

[quote=Schneed10;1137939]And if Cousins does haggle for $18M, I don't think McCloughan would balk. This is definitely going to be a conciliatory negotiation.[/quote]

Looking at your list, seems like 17-18 milllion should certainly satisfy Kirk's desire to feel wanted, and also give the Skins a reasonably clear salary cap going forward.

Can I re-iterate just how very glad i am that the new CBA got rid of the enormous 1st contract issues.

Re: Cousins has arrived
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1137946]Umm yea.

Who is going to be the QB of the Rams next year?[/quote]

Well to be fair they did have Sam Bradford.


[/sarc]

Re: Cousins has arrived
 

[quote=credskinsrule;1137958]well to be fair they did have sam bradford.


[/sarc][/quote]

hah!

Re: Cousins has arrived
 

RG3 Stans week 1 "We've seen Kirk in 9 games already. We know who he is and don't need to start him"

RG3 Stans now "I still need to see more before we pay him a big contract, to make sure he's the guy"

It won't matter what Kirk does. If you didn't like him then, you won't like him now if you hate him because he took the other guys spot.