Re: Dwight Freeney to Skins?
 

[quote=mredskins;278768]Why does someone always have to make a smart comment?[/quote]
I am a jackass.

Re: Dwight Freeney to Skins?
 

[quote=hooskins;278771]I am a jackass.[/quote]
:lol:

Re: Dwight Freeney to Skins?
 

[quote=hooskins;278771]I am a jackass.[/quote]

I said that months ago!

Re: Dwight Freeney to Skins?
 

Look at some of high (3rd round or better) draft picks we've had the past four years:

Sean Taylor (led the team in tackles this year)
Jason Campbell (led the team in TD passes this year)
Chris Cooley (led the team in catches this year)
Carlos Rodgers (led the team in passes defended this year)
Derrick Dockery (started 16 games last year)
Ladell Betts (played great in place of an injured Portis)

So while we piss away drafts picks in sickening fashion, the few we have had over the past few years look better than some of the free agency debacles we have had. We've got a chance to have the first or second defensive player in the draft in Gaines Adams or Jamaal Anderson. DRAFT A DE!!! I'd rather a 21 or 22 year old future Dwight Freeney for a fraction of the cost of a 27 or 28 year old actual Dwight Freeney.

Re: Dwight Freeney to Skins?
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;278823]Look at some of high (3rd round or better) draft picks we've had the past four years:

Sean Taylor (led the team in tackles this year)
Jason Campbell (led the team in TD passes this year)
Chris Cooley (led the team in catches this year)
Carlos Rodgers (led the team in passes defended this year)
Derrick Dockery (started 16 games last year)
Ladell Betts (played great in place of an injured Portis)

So while we piss away drafts picks in sickening fashion, the few we have had over the past few years look better than some of the free agency debacles we have had. We've got a chance to have the first or second defensive player in the draft in Gaines Adams or Jamaal Anderson. DRAFT A DE!!! I'd rather a 21 or 22 year old future Dwight Freeney for a fraction of the cost of a 27 or 28 year old actual Dwight Freeney.[/QUOTE]

Well, just to nitpick a little ...

Carlos Rogers? To me he's still a big, big question mark. He hasn't been the runaway success you'd hope for in a #9 overall pick. Leading [I]this[/I] secondary in passes defended is a bit misleading don't you think?

Ladell Betts has really come into his own despite the fumbles, but the knock on that selection was that it was a huge reach to take him in the second round. Most everybody had him lasting through the fourth.

And while the front office gets a lot of credit for having their eye on a little known tight end from Utah State in Chris Cooley, the problem was that he was a 2-for-1 deal. That brings us to another problem, for a couple of the legitimate gems we've been able get in the draft, (and for what could be a dud in Rocky McIntosh) we wind up losing future draft picks to get them.

I'll give you Dockery in the 3rd round of '03. That was a solid pick. Taylor was a no-brainer. We'll have to wait and see on Campbell, though I so desperately want him to be the long-awaited franchise QB for this team.

Overall, I just don't see how anyone can say this front office has made wise use of the draft in recent years.

Re: Dwight Freeney to Skins?
 

Jamal Anderson will help more than Freeney even now. He is much better against the run and opposite Carter he should have immediate impact. Plus, Golston looked really good at the end of the year at DT. Maybe with Griffin mentoring the other 3 the line might not be abysmal this year (of course there would still be no depth cuz Daniels and Wynn are really over the hill and can't play a full season between them.
We'll probably still give up a few more picks to move up to 4 to get the same guy available at 6 anyway.

Re: Dwight Freeney to Skins?
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;278799]I said that months ago![/quote]

But it didn't seem so valid coming from another jackass's mouth.

Re: Dwight Freeney to Skins?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;278831]Well, just to nitpick a little ...

Carlos Rogers? To me he's still a big, big question mark. He hasn't been the runaway success you'd hope for in a #9 overall pick. Leading [I]this[/I] secondary in passes defended is a bit misleading don't you think?

Ladell Betts has really come into his own despite the fumbles, but the knock on that selection was that it was a huge reach to take him in the second round. Most everybody had him lasting through the fourth.

And while the front office gets a lot of credit for having their eye on a little known tight end from Utah State in Chris Cooley, the problem was that he was a 2-for-1 deal. That brings us to another problem, for a couple of the legitimate gems we've been able get in the draft, (and for what could be a dud in Rocky McIntosh) we wind up losing future draft picks to get them.

I'll give you Dockery in the 3rd round of '03. That was a solid pick. Taylor was a no-brainer. We'll have to wait and see on Campbell, though I so desperately want him to be the long-awaited franchise QB for this team.

Overall, I just don't see how anyone can say this front office has made wise use of the draft in recent years.[/quote]Carlos Rogers did average more than a pass defended per game. Nothing spectacular, but that's not bad by any stretch of the imagination.

Team's usually get 50-75 total knockdowns in a season (I don't think the Skins got anywhere near this), and most starting corners average 15-20. Carlos is right where he needs to be.

Not bad considering that we likely didnt defense a pass until Week 7.

Re: Dwight Freeney to Skins?
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;278894]Carlos Rogers did average more than a pass defended per game. Nothing spectacular, but that's not bad by any stretch of the imagination.

Team's usually get 50-75 total knockdowns in a season (I don't think the Skins got anywhere near this), and most starting corners average 15-20. Carlos is right where he needs to be.

Not bad considering that we likely didnt defense a pass until Week 7.[/QUOTE]

But the problem is that knockdowns or passes defenced are not the measure of a good cornerback. I don't think rational person would try to argue that Carlos Rogers anywhere close to being the caliber player we thought he'd be.

Re: Dwight Freeney to Skins?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;278895]But the problem is that knockdowns or passes defenced are not the measure of a good cornerback. I don't think rational person would try to argue that Carlos Rogers anywhere close to being the caliber player we thought he'd be.[/quote]I agree 100% that knockdowns are a very incomplete measure of CB talent, but I don't see CR as being that far behind in his development. Sure we'd like him to make a few more plays, but it looks like hes going to grow into a consistent starter for us for many years, and that would satisfy me.

Re: Dwight Freeney to Skins?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;278831]Well, just to nitpick a little ...

Carlos Rogers? To me he's still a big, big question mark. He hasn't been the runaway success you'd hope for in a #9 overall pick. Leading [I]this[/I] secondary in passes defended is a bit misleading don't you think?

Ladell Betts has really come into his own despite the fumbles, but the knock on that selection was that it was a huge reach to take him in the second round. Most everybody had him lasting through the fourth.

And while the front office gets a lot of credit for having their eye on a little known tight end from Utah State in Chris Cooley, the problem was that he was a 2-for-1 deal. That brings us to another problem, for a couple of the legitimate gems we've been able get in the draft, (and for what could be a dud in Rocky McIntosh) we wind up losing future draft picks to get them.

I'll give you Dockery in the 3rd round of '03. That was a solid pick. Taylor was a no-brainer. We'll have to wait and see on Campbell, though I so desperately want him to be the long-awaited franchise QB for this team.

Overall, I just don't see how anyone can say this front office has made wise use of the draft in recent years.[/quote]

Couple of things:
I didn't say Carlos Rodgers was a stud, but he did have 17 passes defensed, which did lead the team, however misleading it may be.

JC did lead the team in TD passes, had a 10-6 TD/INT ratio, and progressed nicely throughout his time as a starter. Not bad for a guy who since his freshman year at Auburn has had 6 offensive coordinators in 6 years. Crazy to think this will be his first time since HIGH SCHOOL with the same offense two seasons in a row.

Cooley has been arguably one of the most underrated offensive players in all of football over the past couple years, so the fact that he was a 2-1 deal doesn't bother me one bit.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that for as many times as the Skins have stupidly pissed away draft picks, we do have some solid successes when we hang on to the higher end (rds 1-3) picks. And even though we traded picks to get JC, how worth it will it be if he throws 25+ TD's this year??

Other than a TBD Carlos Rodgers, I would say every one of the picks I listed earlier was well worth it. Overall we HAVE NOT made wise use of the draft, but some of the guys we've selected have become our "core guys" as Gibbs loves to say....

Re: Dwight Freeney to Skins?
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;278911]
Cooley has been arguably one of the most underrated offensive players in all of football over the past couple years, so the fact that he was a 2-1 deal doesn't bother me one bit.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that for as many times as the Skins have stupidly pissed away draft picks, we do have some solid successes when we hang on to the higher end (rds 1-3) picks. And even though we traded picks to get JC, how worth it will it be if he throws 25+ TD's this year??

Other than a TBD Carlos Rodgers, I would say every one of the picks I listed earlier was well worth it. Overall we HAVE NOT made wise use of the draft, but some of the guys we've selected have become our "core guys" as Gibbs loves to say....[/QUOTE]

I know Cooley is a fan favorite and it may be against the sacred honor of a Redskin fan to criticize him, but I need to see more consistency before I anoint him the way some people have. Perhaps that will come with more experience and stability at quarterback. But to say he's one of the most "underrated", I don't know, to me, he's a tad on the overrated side.

Right now, I'd put him near the top of the second tier of tight ends in the league, if they were divided into three. But guys like Antonio Gates, Alge Crumpler, Tony Gonzales, Jason Witten, Dallas Clark, Todd Heap are by far more complete tight ends, and hence, much more of a threat than he is.

When he gets into the top tier, then maybe we can say he was worth that extra 2nd round pick. But as of now, he's a good player who needs a lot of work. In my mind, he's one of the exhibits of how teams shouldn't use multiple draft picks to nab players that they really like.

Re: Dwight Freeney to Skins?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;278895]But the problem is that knockdowns or passes defenced are not the measure of a good cornerback. I don't think rational person would try to argue that Carlos Rogers anywhere close to being the caliber player we thought he'd be.[/quote]


I agree! He's got a long way to go.

Re: Dwight Freeney to Skins?
 

[quote=GMScud;278911]Couple of things:
I didn't say Carlos Rodgers was a stud, but he did have 17 passes defensed, which did lead the team, however misleading it may be.

JC did lead the team in TD passes, had a 10-6 TD/INT ratio, and progressed nicely throughout his time as a starter. Not bad for a guy who since his freshman year at Auburn has had 6 offensive coordinators in 6 years. Crazy to think this will be his first time since HIGH SCHOOL with the same offense two seasons in a row.

Cooley has been arguably one of the most underrated offensive players in all of football over the past couple years, so the fact that he was a 2-1 deal doesn't bother me one bit.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that for as many times as the Skins have stupidly pissed away draft picks, we do have some solid successes when we hang on to the higher end (rds 1-3) picks. And even though we traded picks to get JC, how worth it will it be if he throws 25+ TD's this year??

Other than a TBD Carlos Rodgers, I would say every one of the picks I listed earlier was well worth it. Overall we HAVE NOT made wise use of the draft, but some of the guys we've selected have become our "core guys" as Gibbs loves to say....[/quote]

One of the reasons we have no depth is becasue of all the 2-1 deals that our FO does.

Portis 2-1
Rocky 2-1
JC 2-1
LLoyd 2-1

Re: Dwight Freeney to Skins?
 

I'll give you Gates and Gonzalez. They are bar none the two best ends in the league.

But if you look at the stats over the past three seasons, Cooley has as many TD's as Crumpler (19), and more than Witten (13), Clark (13), and Heap (16).

His # of catches over that time (165) is waaay more than Clark (92) and right on par with Witten, Heap, and Crumpler.

As far as yards go, Crumpler and Witten have averaged about 200 yds a year more over that time, but Cooley is nearly identical to Heap and has 600 more yards than Clark.

And finally, remember that all of these guys have been in league at least one season longer than Cools, most of them even longer. Plus Cooley is a locker room favorite, has maybe the best hands on our team, and is phenomenal after the catch. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anointing the kid, but I think he's worth what we gave up to get him.