Re: Chad Johnson up to his old antics...
 

[quote=Paintrain;434394]Voluntary means voluntary, regardless of contract status.

The argument of 'they make millions and I don't' doesn't hold water, it's hypocritical at best. It's a double standard and an easy cop out of a logical stance.[/quote]

Oh my god. If I recall correctly a couple of yrs ago Portis and Taylor did not show up for voluntary work outs. Springs did not show. I can see if they were starting a whole new offense or had a whole new coach but he knows the offense and knows the coach. As long as he is working out somewhere and keeping in shape I'm sure the team will not throw a tempertantrum.

I am the first person to say they are professionals and that they should honor the contracts they sign and get a lot of money for. BUT, and there is always a but...if the team can't honor their contracts ie: cutting players before the contract is up and trading players on a whim then why can't players do the same thing? If you are in a marriage and its getting ugly then maybe its time to seperate. I'm sure we don't know all the facts as to how ugly its getting. I am in no way saying he is an angle but when people are under stress or are angry they do strange things. You know its a lot easier for us no bodies. All you have to do is quit right. Lets pretend your someone like a doctor or lawyer....if you want out of your contract they make you sign a paper agreeing to not work for the compitition or not work with in a certain miles of the business. NFL players do not have it that easy. He's in a situation where he is mad at the team and coaches and can't just walk away. So a chess game begins. He's playing games and so is the team. He wants out and I'm sure the team is saying screw you we are not letting you get your way no matter how unhappy you are. Sound familiar....Lavar.
CJ is a good player...no one will argue that. CJ will help what ever team he plays for..no one is argueing that. IF...he is aloud to leave or be trades I can't see any reason the Skins should not try to get him. If his character is an issue then put clauses in the contract (and I usually prefer monitary punishments because it hits the player in the pocket) to release him or cut him or fine him. Sometimes all people need is a new environment. We are under a new coaching staff and the high standard of character that Gibbs demanded may not be the same.
Having said all that I don't think CJ's problems are as bad as everyone thinks. The team still wants him (so they say) and maybe I missed something but his diatribe he has been spewing was a lot calmer the other day on the NFL network. Also the team said he is not on the market. case closed. nothing more here. Unless our beloved owner comes up with an agreement the Bengals can't refuse and CJ is willing to maybe give some of the money back I can't see a trade happening. The Bengals stand to lose 8 mill if they trade CJ. I can't see any team willing to lose 8 mill. Thats why I said if CJ gives some money back cutting helping to pay off that 8 mill he will cost the Bengals. Maybe something will happen by draft day maybe not.
All in all we will have to wait and see what CJ does with the manditory work outs to see what if any games he is playing. If he is planning to pressure the Bengals or not. Voluntary work outs mean nothing to a lot of players.

Re: Chad Johnson up to his old antics...
 

I also want to add that I hope all you people who are screaming about character issues are also agrueing against having Pacman here. I was looking at another site and saw the inconsistancies......but we need a CB and we can put the clauses in place...we don't need CJ. Please.

Re: Chad Johnson up to his old antics...
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;434374]Why should he 'just shut up and play'? Doesn't he have the right, regardless of his contract numbers, to state that he's unhappy with his employer? Unlike 'normal' people he doesn't have the ability to simply seek a job with one of his competitors by quitting and walking down the street to work for one of them.

I am not a blanket defender of using the media to push your agenda, for example I ripped Laverneus Coles for his constant griping about his contracts but this is a different scenario. Johnson simply wants to play for another team. He didn't ask for more money or a longer deal, he wants out.

Sorry but the whole 'just shut up and play' mentality bothers me.[/QUOTE]

So in your mind, it's OK to ask for a trade on SEVERAL occasions, and on SEVERAL occasions be told "NO", and then still go around and act like a baby?
I am OK with him wanting out, what I am not OK with is that his team said no way, you have a contract, on several occasions, and he is still acting like a baby.
What he is doing is childish. He is in effect saying "I'm not getting my way, so I will continue to bitch and moan until I get my way." You are endorsing that behavior?

Re: Chad Johnson up to his old antics...
 

he skipped them last year and put up 1300. who cares?

Re: Chad Johnson up to his old antics...
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;434394]Voluntary means voluntary, regardless of contract status.

The argument of 'they make millions and I don't' doesn't hold water, it's hypocritical at best. It's a double standard and an easy cop out of a logical stance.[/QUOTE]

It has nothing to do with that fact that dmek doesn't make millions. It does have to do with the fact that like it or not, this guy is a role model, and due to his millions of dollars he is getting paid, he has a strong responsibility to the fans, the team, the owner, and to society.
If you went to your boss and wanted to be tranferred to a different section of the company, and he said no...then you did it again, and he said no...then again, and again, and again, and be a baby about it...what do you think would happen to you?
Those contracts they sign protect him and the team. Look at it from the team prespective...why would they want to lose someone of his caliber? They developed him, and they paid him big bucks, and he still wants to go???
CJ needs to be thankful that we as a society accept this behavior from our athletes, cause in the real world, that doesn't work at all.

Re: Chad Johnson up to his old antics...
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;434536]he skipped them last year and put up 1300. who cares?[/QUOTE]

It's not really about him missing workouts...it's that he is missing workouts BECAUSE he is crying like a little baby that he wants out.
He needs to accept the fact that he is not going to be traded, and be a good "employee" for a change.

Re: Chad Johnson up to his old antics...
 

[quote=jsarno;434541]It has nothing to do with that fact that dmek doesn't make millions. It does have to do with the fact that like it or not, this guy is a role model, and due to his millions of dollars he is getting paid, he has a strong responsibility to the fans, the team, the owner, and to society.
If you went to your boss and wanted to be tranferred to a different section of the company, and he said no...then you did it again, and he said no...then again, and again, and again, and be a baby about it...what do you think would happen to you?
Those contracts they sign protect him and the team. Look at it from the team prespective...why would they want to lose someone of his caliber? They developed him, and they paid him big bucks, and he still wants to go???
CJ needs to be thankful that we as a society accept this behavior from our athletes, cause in the real world, that doesn't work at all.[/quote]

The big difference that you are not seeing is that after asking for a transfer because you are not confortable or not happy working with the people you are working for and your boss says no....you have a choice. You can quit and go elswhere. Perhaps even to another state and find a similar job. Ther players can't. What's he gunna do go to semi-pro, or Canada? His only possible reactions to no you can not seek a trade is
1. play quietly and leave when you get a chance.
2. throw a tempertantrum and hope the team trades you.

Re: Chad Johnson up to his old antics...
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;434535]So in your mind, it's OK to ask for a trade on SEVERAL occasions, and on SEVERAL occasions be told "NO", and then still go around and act like a baby?
I am OK with him wanting out, what I am not OK with is that his team said no way, you have a contract, on several occasions, and he is still acting like a baby.
What he is doing is childish. He is in effect saying "I'm not getting my way, so I will continue to bitch and moan until I get my way." You are endorsing that behavior?[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't go as far as to say I'm endorsing that behavior, but I'm not strongly condemning it either. During Super Bowl week he was very vocal about not wanting to be a Bengal next year. At the Pro Bowl, he said 'I'm not talking about it anymore, I said my piece.' When he's been on his promo tour for Degree he keeps getting asked about it and repeating, 'I've already said what I wanted to say, so let's move on.'

If you saw the NFL Network interview, he said that no less than 7-8 times and Eisen, Woodson and Dukes kept pressing him for him to say something. Same thing on NFL Live, he gets asked the same questions repeatedly, and he gives the same answer or finally says, yes I want out.

It's not a TO situation where he and Rosenhaus are calling press conferences in his driveway. He's not continuing to just randomly make noise about it, but if asked he answers honestly. What's the issue with that?

Re: Chad Johnson up to his old antics...
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;434541]It has nothing to do with that fact that dmek doesn't make millions. It does have to do with the fact that like it or not, this guy is a role model, and due to his millions of dollars he is getting paid, he has a strong responsibility to the fans, the team, the owner, and to society.
If you went to your boss and wanted to be tranferred to a different section of the company, and he said no...then you did it again, and he said no...then again, and again, and again, and be a baby about it...what do you think would happen to you?
Those contracts they sign protect him and the team. Look at it from the team prespective...why would they want to lose someone of his caliber? They developed him, and they paid him big bucks, and he still wants to go???
CJ needs to be thankful that we as a society accept this behavior from our athletes, cause in the real world, that doesn't work at all.[/QUOTE]
His responsibility to the team, his coaches and owner is to show up when the team is gathered for practices and games, give full effort during such and try to help his team win. He (nor any other athlete, celebrity or non elected official) has NO responsibility to the fans or society. For some reason we as a society continue to place this on people in the spotlight despite it having no place there. They are a role model to your children only if you allow them to be. Telling your kids that CJ, PacMan, Jordan, OJ, Britney, whoever is blessed with an incredible gift but is also human and is fallable to their decisions and will face consequences based on their actions is the responsible thing to do rather than to hope that athletes act in a way that is congruent with your morals and ethics so you don't have to have that tough conversation.

If I went to my boss and repeatedly asked for a transfer and didn't get it as long as I showed up when scheduled and did my job then nothing would happen to me. Now if I stopped performing my tasks then I would be dealt with, but to use your correlation if in my job there were voluntary (but strongly encouraged) supplemental education courses each Saturday that I chose not to participate in, there's not a damn thing my boss could do about it. Here's the big difference, if I don't like my company or boss, there are no less than 15 other places I could quit my job and get hired at. In the NFL, that's not an option so the correlation is moot. Can't compare grapes to grapefruits.

CJ doesn't have to be thankful to society for a damn thing! That's the mentality that irks me beyond words that they should be thankful that they are 'allowed' to act a certain way or if they don't they should 'shut up and play.' These people are grown ass adults just like most of us. They are blessed with a God given talent most of us would love to have just a smidgen of and are fortunate to have an arena to display said talents.

As long as they are breaking no laws or harming no-one in our family, who are we to tell them how to manage their business or say and not say? To the inevitible answer of 'I help pay their salary' no you don't. The NFL generates much more revenue from TV/media contracts and advertisers than it does from ticket sales. Concession sales outweigh game day ticket sales revenues. We're a drop in the bucket. We pay a higher percentage of postal workers, teachers and other public employees salaries than we ever would of any athlete.

Re: Chad Johnson up to his old antics...
 

[QUOTE=SBXVII;434562]The big difference that you are not seeing is that after asking for a transfer because you are not confortable or not happy working with the people you are working for and your boss says no....you have a choice. You can quit and go elswhere. Perhaps even to another state and find a similar job. Ther players can't. What's he gunna do go to semi-pro, or Canada? His only possible reactions to no you can not seek a trade is
1. play quietly and leave when you get a chance.
2. throw a tempertantrum and hope the team trades you.[/QUOTE]

Actually, that's not true. He has the same choices we have. He could not play and sit out and If he continues to sit out forever, he will lose his job and could very easily become an announcer, a burger flipper, a high school coach, a college wr coach...who knows. But he has multiple choices. Just cause it's not making what he is accustomed means nothing. He has a special, and privilaged job that millions upon millions dream about having. If he doesn't want it, there will be a slew of people lined up to have that job, and he can join the regular work force like the rest of us. Why does everyone assume that the ONLY thing football players can do is play football? There are hundreds of football players that play 1-2 years then join the real world work force...happens all the time. CJ is no different if he doesn't want to play by the rules.

Re: Chad Johnson up to his old antics...
 

where talking about practice...practice..man practice...its only practice..don't act like you wouldn't take CJ because of this because you'll be lying to yourself. Its like saying i wouldn't roll in the sack with jessica alba because i'm married..its practice..a voluntary practice

Re: Chad Johnson up to his old antics...
 

People are always very hard on people like CJ, Randy Moss, and T.O....and yeah they can be jerks at time, but they are talented jerks. Unlike talentless or unproven jerks (like former Redskins Brandon Lloyd for example). People come down on CJ and forget that:

A.) He hasn't had any troubles with the law, unlike a crapload of his team mates
B.) The Bengals are not necessarily a model organization in the NFL

I think the same thing could be said of Randy Moss (playing for a dysfunctional team like the Raiders before he went to NE) and T.O. (who just wanted to get paid, but the Eagles are cheap and didn't want to pay him).

The Bengals should trade him if he doesn't want to play there, and who wouldn't? Would you want to play for a team where half of the team has discipline issues and end up in trouble with the law? And if he is available at the right price, we should get him, because unlike Lloyd, he's a proven receiver that would automatically upgrade our offense and make us a great team.

Re: Chad Johnson up to his old antics...
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;434706]People are always very hard on people like CJ, Randy Moss, and T.O....and yeah they can be jerks at time, but they are talented jerks. Unlike talentless or unproven jerks (like former Redskins Brandon Lloyd for example). People come down on CJ and forget that:

A.) He hasn't had any troubles with the law, unlike a crapload of his team mates
B.) The Bengals are not necessarily a model organization in the NFL

I think the same thing could be said of Randy Moss (playing for a dysfunctional team like the Raiders before he went to NE) and T.O. (who just wanted to get paid, but the Eagles are cheap and didn't want to pay him).

The Bengals should trade him if he doesn't want to play there, and who wouldn't? Would you want to play for a team where half of the team has discipline issues and end up in trouble with the law? And if he is available at the right price, we should get him, because unlike Lloyd, he's a proven receiver that would automatically upgrade our offense and make us a great team.[/QUOTE]

I agree with that mostly, but I dunno about calling the Eagles cheap they gave Asante Samuel 6 years 57 million.

Re: Chad Johnson up to his old antics...
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;434535]So in your mind, it's OK to ask for a trade on SEVERAL occasions, and on SEVERAL occasions be told "NO", and then still go around and act like a baby?
I am OK with him wanting out, what I am not OK with is that his team said no way, you have a contract, on several occasions, and he is still acting like a baby.
What he is doing is childish. He is in effect saying "I'm not getting my way, so I will continue to bitch and moan until I get my way." You are endorsing that behavior?[/QUOTE]

To piggyback on your comment, when he first got the contract, he talked about how happy he was to be a Bengal and that he'd "never forget what the Bengals did for" him. Now, he wants out. Give me a break!

Oh, and I definitely DON'T want Pacman here.

Re: Chad Johnson up to his old antics...
 

1) If Johnson comes available on draft weekend the Redskins will try to make a deal, so it is too early to say "we stayed away from him".

2) I also think Laron Landry, among a few others, was not at the open of Redskins voluntary workouts.

3) I'd prefer that players show, and most do, but this is the modern NFL I guess. If owners keep caving to player demands for trades then these things will just keep happening.