Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

[quote=SmootSmack;438824]Gibbs wasn't brought back for the sole purpose of winning a Super Bowl. He was also (perhaps more importantly) brought back to "right the ship" and restore some pride and purpose to the franchise for many years to come.[/quote]

Good point. Of course the ultimate goal is to win it all, but there are many more factors at play as you mention that he should be judged on.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;438824]Gibbs wasn't brought back for the sole purpose of winning a Super Bowl. He was also (perhaps more importantly) brought back to "right the ship" and restore some pride and purpose to the franchise for many years to come.[/QUOTE]

I agree with Matty that many other factors other than winning a SB were at play for Gibbs. It remains to be seen if he has in fact righted the ship. We will know for sure in a few years.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

[QUOTE=irish;438833]I agree with Matty that many other factors other than winning a SB were at play for Gibbs. It remains to be seen if he has in fact righted the ship. We will know for sure in a few years.[/QUOTE]

so far so good, but like you said, only time will tell. I can remember in previous years players who stood out and always had something to say (Stephen Davis, Micheal Westbrook, Albert Connell, Lavar, etc.....), but the past few years it just seems like the players werent working for Gibbs, they were working for each other. I like that and think that it is a key to winning in this league.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

He'll get some deserved credit if the Skins do well this year because he rebuilt the franchise from the shambles of the Spurrier era and was the most successful with making the playoffs twice in the past 3 years. He dramatically changed the roster and the culture at Redskins park during his 2.0 tenure.

He will also get some deserved grief if they are MORE successful than a middling near .500 team with extended losing streaks as they were under him. The telling sign will be how the offense performs. Of course Campbell is more experienced and should be making better decisions now than he was in his first 16 starts, but the playcalling under Gibbs/Saunders was very conservative for the most part and predictable/unimaginative at best. I've been re-watching some of the games from this past year (most recently the TB game) and it's shocking how basic most of the game plan was. It's no wonder we struggled to score 21 pts a game. It's funny how universally (so far) the players have said the offense will be 'more spread out and explosive' (Portis) and 'better suited to some of our strengths (Cooley) this year. If the '08 Skins turn into a scoring machine (acknowledging Campbell developing and the return of Jansen/Thomas are factors) then there is something to be said about the previous under-utilization of our talent.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

[quote=irish;438801]I hear you and I see the connection is real. Since there is a connection, if something goes wrong and this team flops I will expect to see Gibbs getting his fair share of the critism. I doubt that will happen though. IMO this is Zorn's team in good & bad. He gets the praise & the blame.

Lets face it Matty, Gibbs was brought back to win a Super Bowl and the fact that we have to point to rallying a team back from 5-7 as a good ending really crystalizes how disappointing Gibbs 2.0 was.[/quote]
Did Gibbs turn you down for an autograph or something....

I had my problems with Gibbs 2.0, but bottom line is: 2 playoff appearances in 3 years is not a bad or "disappointing" tenure considering where we were before Gibbs came back. He definitely changed the culture around Redskins Park and brought respectability back to the franchise.

And yes, he will shoulder [B]some[/B] responsibility for the roster going forward, win or lose.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

Gibbs should get MASSIVE credit.
Before he came, we had Spurrier...what a joke.
This team has pulled a Dr Jeckle and Mr Hyde.
Yes it took a complete overhaul of players and coaching staff....
If you put it in perspective, we went from a laughingstock to a playoff team in just 2 years....and playoffs 2 of the last 3 in extremely difficult circumstances....dont forget the front office issues too.

Gibbs has resurrected this franchise...he has brought back the pride in Redskins Park.
In many ways, this may have been a far greater task than winning a Superbowl.

Yes, he was conservative, but c'mon...an old Brunell taking us to the playoffs?.....Collins doing so after no starts in 10 years?.....that is the midas touch.

In some ways...Snyder has the perfect opportunity to take a chance on a rookie coach.
22 of 22 starters back?....wow...
I must say, I am a little worried..as long as we stay away from tough head coaching issues that distract from X's and O's (such as a head case player)...we should be fine.

Credit always goes to the head coach....but so does blame....no one will blame Gibbs for a bad season this year...but they may give him some credit if they make the playoffs.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

Gibbs is in the HOF for a reason. Without Gibbs this team was nothing, he held Campbell back for a reason, that being that you don't throw a young QB into the wolves and expect not lose his confidence and damage him. This to me was Joe Gibbs finest coaching performance ever, to make it to the playoffs with the number of injuries all over the roster, tragic events, etc. Yes, Joe surrounded himself with a very experienced coaching staff, but at the end of the day he called the shots, not Danny. Joe deserves most of the credit, I for one disagree with the fans and experts that criticized Joe. If Joe would have come back next year I would have seen us in the SB. We'll see what Jim Z. can do with the team he inherited.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

Well hopefully this will benefit us..look at past coachs who left and how good the team did the following year..i.e.The Cowboys,Chargers and Steelers last year..The Bucs won it the following year that Tony Dungy left.We'll be okay..

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

the redskins are in better shape now than they have been in years.gibbs righted the ship and now the new captain just needs to learn how to sail.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;438824]Gibbs wasn't brought back for the sole purpose of winning a Super Bowl. He was also (perhaps more importantly) brought back to "right the ship" and restore some pride and purpose to the franchise for many years to come.[/QUOTE]

And with that said, Joe Gibbs was very successful in doing so in his second tenure.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

Well, you can pretty much expect to hear media and at least some fans give a hell of a lot of credit to Zorn if the offense finally takes off this year. Offensively, Gibbs 2.0 could be best described as inconsistent. And the thing is offense was really what Gibbs was doing. GW ran the defense, period. If the defense continues to shine that credit goes mostly to Blache, but it will have GW's mark on it.

But it's like others have said: Gibbs carried the team through the valley of death [I]after[/I] he had brought stability and respect back to the franchise. What's that worth? Priceless IMO. Priceless.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

Coach Gibbs' greatest quality was dealing with adversity
he gave us everything he had and then some

He'll always have a place among the greatest figures in DC sports history

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

[QUOTE=prinzeofmoval;438958]Well hopefully this will benefit us..look at past coachs who left and how good the team did the following year..i.e.The Cowboys,Chargers and Steelers last year..The Bucs won it the following year that Tony Dungy left.We'll be okay..[/QUOTE]

Not to nitpick, but I think there are many more historical examples of teams being bad the year after a coach left than there are the opposite.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

I believe that Gibbs had both a positive and a negative impact. The positive is more lasting ... he demanded high character people, and added many tough guys that would never throw in the towel even in the most trying circumstances (Taylor's death). However, we cannot turn a blind eye to the number of blown leads, many after going conservative. When Norv was coach, blowing close games was a recurring theme, and I remember thinking then that Gibbs almost always put a team away when he had them down. Gibbs 2.0 reminds me a lot of the last 4 years Norv was here - talented teams that often found ways to beat themselves.

All that said, you can never take away the greatness of Gibbs' first tenure. Based on that, he should be on everyone's top 10 greatest coaches list.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

[QUOTE=Stuck in TX;438682]Gibbs went out and got some great talent for our roster. Also, I feel that Gibbs did a top-notch job mentally developing each and every person on the roster. Not a single team member was left out after the death of Sean Taylor. Everyone pulled together and got through it, feeding off of the perserverance that Joe Gibbs instills in each of his players. He got their heads ready for every game and every player knew they could win every game regardless of the final score. Every team has its player who messes up and sticks out as a trouble maker... except the Redskins.

I believe, just from what I have seen, Zorn lacks the mental aspect of the game. He has the fundementals, and will bring a whole new aproach to how to play football. Not a bad thing by any means. If you add the fundementals he has, along with the perserverance, heart, and teamwork that Gibbs left behind, and finally add the player development and skill position assets that Zorn offers.... We have a great team. I do not think we can win any games in the next five years without attributing at least a little credit to Mr. Gibbs.

One more thing... Joe Gibbs is in that front office serving as an advisor to the team. He is in Dannys box, sitting next to his throne. As long as Gibbs is whispering in Danny's ear, it would not be fair to exclude Gibbs from any of the credit dished out for the Redskins.[/QUOTE]

I'm curious, just what is it you have or haven't seen that would indicate Zorn 'lacks the mental aspect for the game'?

they havent taken a snap yet.