Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;501902]Well, you never EXPECT rookies to contribute. You need them to learn the ways of the game during their rookie season, and contribute later. Rookies that can contribute are incredibly valuable, and Horton looks like a complete steal.

Thomas' on the field woes are huge causes for concern. Davis and Kelly should pass him by next year. If they don't we have a problem.[/quote]

You do expect high second round picks and the supposed top players at their positions in the draft to be able to get on the field thou. Heck even be able to get on the field and make some catches.

This is why you don't draft receivers, especially 3 of them, with your top picks. They have the most trouble moving to the pros. After Desmond Howard, Westbrook and Gardner you would think we would know that by now. Stick with defensive players and offensive line which we have hit on for the most part with our top picks.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=Jake2008;501909]You do expect high second round picks and the supposed top players at their positions in the draft to be able to get on the field thou. Heck even be able to get on the field and make some catches.

This is why you don't draft receivers, especially 3 of them, with your top picks. They have the most trouble moving to the pros. After Desmond Howard, Westbrook and Gardner you would think we would know that by now. Stick with defensive players and offensive line which we have hit on for the most part with our top picks.[/quote]Yeah, you expect them to be able to handle simple tasks when asked to, but so far, we've only had one receiver fail at this.

This Fred Davis thread is important, because at the very least, shouldn't he be getting Devin Thomas' reps when he fails to do simple things like check into the huddle correctly? I understand he doesn't have the downfield speed that caused us to draft Devin Thomas, but I have to think that he can line up and run the hitch at least as effectively right now.

We'll reevaluate where these guys are next year before we say the draft was a total waste.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/11/fred_davis_-_trust_issues.html]Zorn's Issue with Davis Is Lack of Trust - Redskins Insider[/url]

This basically sums up Zorn's reasons for keeping Davis on the bench.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Well if he can't trust the guy after this long then let him go.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Davis, Thomas, and Kelly need to f'ing wake up. This is the pros now. They are making excellent money to do a job. At least be professional enough to come to camp in condition and dedicate yourselves to learning the offense. This is incredibly discouraging when I see DeSean Jackson and Eddie Royal making an impact for their teams from DAY ONE!!!

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=firstdown;501926]Well if he can't trust the guy after this long then let him go.[/quote]I agree. We've seen Devin Thomas hurt this team on gameday. If Zorn really believes that we're no better off with Davis in there, then it's probably time to give up on it.

I would get him on the field to be sure and see if he can handle it, and if he fails like DT has, there's no reason to force him onto the field next year.

Please, Malcolm Kelly, please be something like what you looked to be in college.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=GMScud;501877]That's the same issue that Devin Thomas is having. Are these guys really such mental midgets that after training camp, 5 preseason games, and 10 regular season games, they can't learn assignments? That's troubling. I appreciate Zorn's explanation, but it's far from an excuse.[/quote]

There in lies part of the problem. We picked supposedly the best available player, in a position we needed help imediatly which is why some of us were screaming for CJ (Chad Johnson). The other lot of you said no lets go get a brand new younger WR from the draft so we can put on the field imediatly and have for years. Now you see what us others were worried about, that any drafted WR would not be able to contribute at all imediatly. I also stated I was not impressed with our WR coach. He for what ever reason can't seem to teach even our vetran WR's how to run a route or shake a defender off. Why we picked him up from the college ranks is beyond me cause he seems to have no idea what to teach at the pro level. Moss and ARE should have taken one WR under their wing and taught them the system and route running for that particular WR...ie; X,Z, and whatever other letter you can think of. Then next year have Moss and ARE trade the rookie WR's and train them in the other pattern running.

Likewise...Cooley should have had to take Davis under his wing and train him on the routes and play calling.

...but no one will catch a ball if our QB is constantly running for his life. Why they don't have more roll out patterns for JC is also again beyond me. If the opposing D is getting a good push up the middle constantly roll out. Get away from the rush. Another thing. Dallas changed up at the half and used max protect in the back field. I guess we don't have something like that for our QB? as I keep stating they are using the TTB in the wrong fashion. He was never a run between the tackles kind of RB. He was a push to the outside/edge, pass catching RB. What do we do with him? hand him the ball and say run up the middle. What did we get a loss of 1?

I know it's easy for me to solve their problems since I'm the Monday moring, couch potato coach....but I still have a problem with our 2 min drill that Zorn last week said he was satisfied with. No hurry up offense.

The only consolation I have is I [B]hope[/B] we can beat Seatle. This should be an easy weekend for us. A true day to put up the numbers if there ever was one.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Am I suppose to believe that DeSean Jackson and Eddie Royal picked up their offenses just like that and Fred Davis and Devin Thomas are taking forever to do the same? Are Philly's and Denver's offenses that much simpler than ours or our guys that much slower to pick things up? Or is it that those teams had a bigger need for a starter right away? Jackson spiked a ball on his way to a touchdown before he crossed the goal-line. Does that instill trust? And yes he did make the catch. It's a whole lot easier to make a catch when you're actually thrown the ball. Do those guys never make mistakes or do their coaches play them knowing they may make mistakes, but they are capable of making big plays also and will learn more by actually participating in the offense? Which players will be further along next year, the ones who have played this year and actually been targeted as part of the game plan, or the ones who will be played and targeted after they prove they won't ever make any mistakes? God forbid anything happen to Moss or Cooley to keep them out of a game, but I do wonder how Davis and Thomas would respond if some of the burden were put on them to make plays.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=53Fan;501955]Am I suppose to believe that DeSean Jackson and Eddie Royal picked up their offenses just like that and Fred Davis and Devin Thomas are taking forever to do the same? Are Philly's and Denver's offenses that much simpler than ours or our guys that much slower to pick things up? Or is it that those teams had a bigger need for a starter right away? Jackson spiked a ball on his way to a touchdown before he crossed the goal-line. Does that instill trust? And yes he did make the catch. It's a whole lot easier to make a catch when you're actually thrown the ball. Do those guys never make mistakes or do their coaches play them knowing they may make mistakes, but they are capable of making big plays also and will learn more by actually participating in the offense? Which players will be further along next year, the ones who have played this year and actually been targeted as part of the game plan, or the ones who will be played and targeted after they prove they won't ever make any mistakes? God forbid anything happen to Moss or Cooley to keep them out of a game, but I do wonder how Davis and Thomas would respond if some of the burden were put on them to make plays.[/quote]

Good post. Sort of curious what would happen if Zorn specifically called out Thomas or Davis to rise to the occasion at this point.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Eddie Royal is a great route runner and got a good jump on the trust factor in weeks 1 & 2 when Marshall was suspended. He stepped up when called upon and quickly ingrained himself in Denver's offense. I wasn't surprised. I wish we had drafted him.

Desean Jackson is a burner who happens to play on a team with no established pass catchers not named Westbrook. He's taken advantage of his opportunity. I''m glad we don't have him since he's an embarrassing punk.

Also, both Cutler and McNabb are in offenses that are very pass-friendly. Both have well over 60+ pass attempts than Jason Campbell. Lastly, Denver and Philly have been using the same offense for a long time. Familiarity breeds confidence. This time next year we should see marked improvement with all of our draft picks. Our pass protection simply sucks right now and will need to be issue #1 this off-season starting with Rabach's dismissal and Jansen's retirement.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Right. They stepped up WHEN CALLED UPON. Davis is never called upon and Thomas rarely so. That's my point. Our pass protection really sucks. No doubt about it. The reason Moss or Cooley don't have 0 receptions is because they WERE called upon. Even with this dreadful line. It's my opinion that if we don't find a way, to get them involved, it is going to be very hard to be successful.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=The Goat;501956]Good post. Sort of curious what would happen if Zorn specifically called out Thomas or Davis to rise to the occasion at this point.[/quote]

Good point Goat. I wish he would.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Here's the NFL analysis on Thomas. This sounds way to much like we wrote the analysis. lol. .....

[B]Negatives: Has very good timed speed and is quick into his routes, but needs to do a better job of uncovering and tracking the ball on deep routes (struggles at times to snatch the ball over his outside shoulder)..[/B]

[B]...Still learning how to set up defenders and needs to do a better job of sitting down in coverage...Has large hands and good arm reach to extend for the ball, but when he doesn't attack the ball or tries to body catch, most of his drops occur..[/B]

[B]Effective cut blocker, but does not play up to his size and strength when blocking in-line (needs to sustain and finish better)..[/B]

[B]Might struggle trying to digest a complicated playbook (just adequate with the mental aspect of the game). And needs to do a better job of reading coverages (will run into spots, at times). [/B]

[B]With his impressive physique, he could be an inviting target over the middle, as he will not hesitate to mix it up with a defender. However, with his burst and running stride, he can also challenge the deep secondary. He will still need time to develop better pattern running skills, but he has enough in his package to contribute as a rookie.
[/B]

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

How about Kelly's analysis.....

[B]Negatives: Lacks the short steps and quick feet, but does get good depth in his route progression with his long stride...Perhaps a product of the team's reliance on its ground game, he will disappear for long stretches[/B]

[B]...A good blocker, he is basically a non-factor without the ball in his hands...Will usually run crisp routes but he will glide out of his breaks, [/B]

[B]...Keeps his head on a swivel to locate the ball, but is more effective as a receiver in the open field, as he does not show the same burst as smaller receivers when catching in the short area[/B]

[B]...Not really an explosive player, but does use his body lean and initial contact strike to create separation.
[/B]

Those were just the negatives of both. They had a lot of positives. We are just not seeing them for whatever reason.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Funny Royal sounds so much like Thomas....

[B]...Despite his upper-body strength, he struggles to avoid getting a clean release vs. press coverage, which causes him to get redirected in his routes too often for a player with his power[/B]

[B]...An inconsistent route-runner who will drift on deep routes and takes soft-angle cuts when going long distances...Is more effective on controlled and short-area routes, but needs to be more consistent when attempting to plant and drive to gain separation[/B]

[B]...Tough player, but will have some concentration lapses, along with a penchant for trapping the ball, leading to a share of dropped balls.[/B]

[B]but will get frustrated when he can't escape the jam to get into his route (lets that affect him for several plays, getting take out of his game).
[/B]