Re: Putting the Redskins in Perspective
 

[quote=GTripp0012;502224]Also, the Jason Taylor trade: officially horrible. We got waxed.

We're going to have to make a decision next off-season between Daniels and Taylor. And by no means is this a simple decision. Vinny needs to realize that the 2nd round pick we send for Taylor is a sunk cost, and that if a 36 year old Daniels can help us more than a 35 year old Taylor, Daniels needs to stay and Taylor must go.[/quote]

We definitely got waxed, because we are a stop the run first, generate pressure second defense. I'm so glad we gave up a 2nd round pick and $8M per for a guy who is only playing on situational 3rd downs.

After reading this, I don't think anyone here should anticipate any more sacks any time soon. This is frustrating. We suck up front on both sides of the ball.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/18/AR2008111803819.html?sub=AR&sid=ST2008111803998&s_pos]Jason La Canfora - Redskins' Pass Rush Is Stuck in the Slow Lane - washingtonpost.com[/url]=

Re: Putting the Redskins in Perspective
 

it is funny how things turn so quickly on here. Just a few weeks ago everyone was praising our offensive line on how great is was playing. They did play phenominal early in the season, against those same cowboys. Now, they may have done some different things this time around, and maybe Joe and boys didn't plan on it so they were a bit confused, and technique wise, we just weren't prepared. Most of our success this season has been running the ball, and Dallas took that away from us, as did pittsburg. We haven't had to drop back and throw the ball 30+ times very often, again subjecting Jason to more potential hits. Dallas did to us what we like to do against teams. Stop the run, play up on the corners and disrupt timing. I tip my hat to their defense for doing exactly what they wanted to do.

To dog the offensive line may be a bit harsh. They didn't play well the last two weeks, but the previous 7 weeks and even against the Giants they didn't play all that bad. They may be a bit old, but they are not so far over the hill they have to be considered past the capability of playing good enough to get to the playoffs. I think their may need to be some adjustments to some playcalling early in the game so teams aren't just pinning their ears back and coming after him. This is the NFL, DT and DE's are more than capable of getting to the QB when all they are asked to do is go after the QB. Until we show the ability to do more than run the ball we will probably see a ton more of this. The last two games teams have successfully been able to run blitz into our running gaps and with the 3-4 style its a little more difficult to handle. I think our offensive line is very capable until and will play better down the stretch.

But Zorn has to be able to call better plays early to get teams out of that mode, we have to make plays early down the middle of the field of 20+ yards to cooley, thomas, randel el to move those LB's back from the line of scrimmage, and at least try to hit some deep balls early to move the safeties back. That will take some pressure of the offensive line and make us a little more of a two headed monster.
as far as more screens go, its hard to run when no one really respects our down field game. Screens dont work all that well when you have 8 - 9 defenders only worried about a 15 yard area.

Re: Putting the Redskins in Perspective
 

Each week, the opposing QB gets less pressure. Little pressure from our DL against Dallas - even with blitzes. Our DB's are playing well, which is why we've been close in our games.

Our offense is going downhill. Teams know how to beat us in the trenches and are doing so. Jason is just not at his best with a rush.

We're going to be ok this season but our problems in the OL and DL will finally have to be addressed in the draft and FA.

Re: Putting the Redskins in Perspective
 

[quote=#56fanatic;502317]it is funny how things turn so quickly on here. Just a few weeks ago everyone was praising our offensive line on how great is was playing. They did play phenominal early in the season, against those same cowboys. Now, they may have done some different things this time around, and maybe Joe and boys didn't plan on it so they were a bit confused, and technique wise, we just weren't prepared. Most of our success this season has been running the ball, and Dallas took that away from us, as did pittsburg. We haven't had to drop back and throw the ball 30+ times very often, again subjecting Jason to more potential hits. Dallas did to us what we like to do against teams. Stop the run, play up on the corners and disrupt timing. I tip my hat to their defense for doing exactly what they wanted to do.

To dog the offensive line may be a bit harsh. They didn't play well the last two weeks, but the previous 7 weeks and even against the Giants they didn't play all that bad. They may be a bit old, but they are not so far over the hill they have to be considered past the capability of playing good enough to get to the playoffs. I think their may need to be some adjustments to some playcalling early in the game so teams aren't just pinning their ears back and coming after him. This is the NFL, DT and DE's are more than capable of getting to the QB when all they are asked to do is go after the QB. Until we show the ability to do more than run the ball we will probably see a ton more of this. The last two games teams have successfully been able to run blitz into our running gaps and with the 3-4 style its a little more difficult to handle. I think our offensive line is very capable until and will play better down the stretch.

But Zorn has to be able to call better plays early to get teams out of that mode, we have to make plays early down the middle of the field of 20+ yards to cooley, thomas, randel el to move those LB's back from the line of scrimmage, and at least try to hit some deep balls early to move the safeties back. That will take some pressure of the offensive line and make us a little more of a two headed monster. as far as more screens go, its hard to run when no one really respects our down field game. Screens dont work all that well when you have 8 - 9 defenders only worried about a 15 yard area.[/quote]

I was very surprised to see the thread evolve like this and really have gotten a lot out of the insights on this board so far. I'm going to address this post:

My perspective is that the run blocking has been solid throughout the season and I wasn't intending to disparage the line. In fact, I think it is a solid line and above-average in run blocking. The problem is that it is not truly an elite line in my opinion and has been exploited by more athletic front sevens during the past two weeks. Using deep passes to set-up the run is good however if you don't have a line that can contain a pass rush on a five-step drop then you're setting yourself up for failure.

Re: Putting the Redskins in Perspective
 

[quote=SmootSmack;502217]It's not like we don't have solid young linemen that have developed (will develop) into NFL starters-Golston, Montgomery, Heyer, Evans, hopefully Rinehart, Geisinger, and Jackson/Wilson in the not so distant future.

But I guess the concern is that we're not spending high draft picks on the line?[/quote]

I think out of this list, Golston, Montgomery, Heyer and Evans all have shown that they can be starters. But none of these guys are stars. There isn't one guy on this list who is in the same league as a DeMarcus Ware or Jay Ratliff on Dallas, or Harrison or Woodley on Pitt.

Re: Putting the Redskins in Perspective
 

[quote=firstdown;502306]How do you bench Jansen by moving him to center? Heck, can he even play center?[/quote]


[COLOR=black][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I meant bench him from his starting Tackle position. Jansen obviously can’t handle the rush, I don’t think he ever fully recovered from the Achilles injury a couple years back. He is great run blocking (pushing forward) and not pass blocking (moving backwards). He has practiced playing center a little (it was stated earlier in the season) [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/04/AR2008060404331.html]Jansen Is at Center of Team's Backup Plan - washingtonpost.com[/url][/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Putting the Redskins in Perspective
 

Ppl blast Taylor, but Carter has only 3 sacks. Taylor is hurt and getting double-teamed. For what we are paying both these guys we're not getting much pressure or sacks.

Griff is on the down-side of his career. Gholston - may or may not be a starter on other teams.

We need a star player on the DL who can still take a double-team and get pressure. Other teams use their best draft picks for the DL or OL. When will we do it?

Re: Putting the Redskins in Perspective
 

[quote=Drift Reality;502332]I think out of this list, Golston, Montgomery, Heyer and Evans all have shown that they can be starters. But none of these guys are stars. There isn't one guy on this list who is in the same league as a DeMarcus Ware or Jay Ratliff on Dallas, or Harrison or Woodley on Pitt.[/quote]

Three of those guys you mention aren't even linemen, they're linebackers aren't they?

Re: Putting the Redskins in Perspective
 

[quote=SmootSmack;502346]Three of those guys you mention aren't even linemen, they're linebackers aren't they?[/quote]Ware, Woodley, and Harrison are 3-4 outside LBs. BTW, I agree with the earlier assessment of Jason Taylor's poor fit for our scheme. He's a disaster against the run when we face a strong offensive line. It is time to draft a strong 2-way DE and a stud DT. We could have had Phillip Merling last draft, but Vinny felt that trading down and drafting WR's was the way to go. I will always maintain that championship caliber clubs are almost always strong on the O and D lines. We will not become an elite team until that is addressed.

Re: Putting the Redskins in Perspective
 

[quote=#56fanatic;502317]it is funny how things turn so quickly on here. Just a few weeks ago everyone was praising our offensive line on how great is was playing. They did play phenominal early in the season, against those same cowboys. Now, they may have done some different things this time around, and maybe Joe and boys didn't plan on it so they were a bit confused, and technique wise, we just weren't prepared. Most of our success this season has been running the ball, and Dallas took that away from us, as did pittsburg. We haven't had to drop back and throw the ball 30+ times very often, again subjecting Jason to more potential hits. Dallas did to us what we like to do against teams. Stop the run, play up on the corners and disrupt timing. I tip my hat to their defense for doing exactly what they wanted to do.

To dog the offensive line may be a bit harsh. They didn't play well the last two weeks, but the previous 7 weeks and even against the Giants they didn't play all that bad. They may be a bit old, but they are not so far over the hill they have to be considered past the capability of playing good enough to get to the playoffs. I think their may need to be some adjustments to some playcalling early in the game so teams aren't just pinning their ears back and coming after him. This is the NFL, DT and DE's are more than capable of getting to the QB when all they are asked to do is go after the QB. Until we show the ability to do more than run the ball we will probably see a ton more of this. The last two games teams have successfully been able to run blitz into our running gaps and with the 3-4 style its a little more difficult to handle. I think our offensive line is very capable until and will play better down the stretch.

But Zorn has to be able to call better plays early to get teams out of that mode, we have to make plays early down the middle of the field of 20+ yards to cooley, thomas, randel el to move those LB's back from the line of scrimmage, and at least try to hit some deep balls early to move the safeties back. That will take some pressure of the offensive line and make us a little more of a two headed monster.
as far as more screens go, its hard to run when no one really respects our down field game. Screens dont work all that well when you have 8 - 9 defenders only worried about a 15 yard area.[/quote]Well, the line wasn't pass blocking any better early in the season, it's just that on 3rd down and 4 in the fourth quarter with the game on the line, Zorn used to just run right at them, which is our best offensive play.

Now, he feels like our best play is compromised due to Portis' health and such that when we need yards, he feels like we have to throw.

Re: Putting the Redskins in Perspective
 

[quote=SouperMeister;502351]Ware, Woodley, and Harrison are 3-4 outside LBs. BTW, I agree with the earlier assessment of Jason Taylor's poor fit for our scheme. He's a disaster against the run when we face a strong offensive line. It is time to draft a strong 2-way DE and a stud DT. We could have had Phillip Merling last draft, but Vinny felt that trading down and drafting WR's was the way to go. I will always maintain that championship caliber clubs are almost always strong on the O and D lines. We will not become an elite team until that is addressed.[/quote]

Andre Carter is also not very good against the run either. When both Carter and Taylor are in at the same time against a power running team we are in trouble. Carter got used in the Dallas game. Even a TE - Jason Witten, by himself moved Carter 5 yards on a sweep in the first half. It was embarrassing. Made Carter look small and weak. Flozzell Adams was manhandling Carter most of the game. Andre Carter, Jason Taylor and Erasmus James are all the same player. Speed rush, weak side right defensive end. It is poor planning and poor player management to have three of the same player for only one position. We have only one run stopping DE. A defense has to stop the run first in this league. Your season is over if your front seven cannot stop the run.

Re: Putting the Redskins in Perspective
 

[quote=SouperMeister;502301]I believe Landry is far more effective near the line of scrimmage, and he gets to the QB in a flash when he blitzes. He is clearly no Sean Taylor at FS. Taylor would have blown up Bennett on the winning TD. I cannot think of a signature hit this season where Landry has blown up a receiver. To be honest, the two best hits made by our DBs this season were both by Rogers - the one on Josh Cribbs and the one on T.O. on Sunday that led to Rocky's INT.

I really thought that Landry would be an enforcer in the Taylor mold, but it hasn't happened so far this season. Again, his talents are probably more suited to playing closer to the line.[/quote]

Aren't they talking about bringing Springs back this week to start him at FS, move Landry closer to the line. Start Hall and Rogers at corner, and replace Washington in the lineup with Taylor, so both he and Evans are starting? Thought I heard that somewhere

Re: Putting the Redskins in Perspective
 

Springs is willing to play safety. Taylor said he would like to take Washingtons spot but I think Zorn said that would'nt happen. Taylor said he would like to roam a little. If Springs does start at FS I'm wondering if they will use the cobra package more often to keep Horton in the game too. I would think they would blitz Landry early and often. I would love to see the cobra package with Springs at FS.

Re: Putting the Redskins in Perspective
 

[quote=53Fan;502427]Springs is willing to play safety. Taylor said he would like to take Washingtons spot but I think Zorn said that would'nt happen. Taylor said he would like to roam a little. If Springs does start at FS I'm wondering if they will use the cobra package more often to keep Horton in the game too. I would think they would blitz Landry early and often. I would love to see the cobra package with Springs at FS.[/quote]

Hey 53, how did you know Springs is willing? Have you heard about any discussions for beyond this season?

Re: Putting the Redskins in Perspective
 

[quote=53Fan;502427]Springs is willing to play safety. [B]Taylor said he would like to take Washingtons spot[/B] but I think Zorn said that would'nt happen. Taylor said he would like to roam a little. If Springs does start at FS I'm wondering if they will use the cobra package more often to keep Horton in the game too. I would think they would blitz Landry early and often. I would love to see the cobra package with Springs at FS.[/quote]

I would love to see that against the Seahawks.