Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=Mattyk;744565]Not everyone is getting the calls like Rak. He's drawn 5 holding calls, more than the top sack guys Matthews and Phillips.[/quote]

The holding stat can be misleading because of the different variables. If other passrushers played against the same tackles (especially the NFL's worst Alex Barron) and in front of the same officiating groups as Rak did, would they have forced the same amount of holding calls? Maybe more? Maybe less? It can't be determined, that's why the forced holding stat is useless when comparing player to player.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;743866]I liked [B]the idea of holding having an option for a loss of down penalty that someone else brought up, especially if it was done to prevent a sack. [/B]

Some of the non-calls are really bad, but as the article states, it probably could be called every play.[/quote]

I really like this idea. The problem is it will never happen because the NFL owners would never pass such a rule. It goes against everything they are trying to do. The NFL is becoming a flag football league where passing is glorified and running the ball is seen as boring, rules are made so QB's and receivers are overly protected.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=Defensewins;744734]I really like this idea. The problem is it will never happen because the NFL owners would never pass such a rule. It goes against everything they are trying to do. The NFL is becoming a flag football league where passing is glorified and running the ball is seen as boring, rules are made so QB's and receivers are overly protected.[/quote]

You can blame Bill Polian for the illegal contact rule. I hope we smash the Colts in just like we did to Buffalo in the Super Bowl. Hit Manning like a rag doll, run all over them, etc so those sorry ass finessers feel the might of SMASHMOUTH FOOTBALL.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;744735]You can blame Bill Polian for the illegal contact rule. I hope we smash the Colts in just like we did to Buffalo in the Super Bowl. Hit Manning like a rag doll, run all over them, etc so those sorry ass finessers feel the might of SMASHMOUTH FOOTBALL.[/quote]

Hell Yeah!
Finessers should stick to watch golf or Canadian football, which is what we are becoming. Leave NFL football alone...or better yet go back to the pre-1992 rules. Back when football was for men and the finessers work in their garden on Sunday's with their wives.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

Rak is also averaging 4 hurries per game. Let's see how we can pick apart and discredit that stat shall we?

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;744735]You can blame Bill Polian for the illegal contact rule. I hope we smash the Colts in just like we did to Buffalo in the Super Bowl. Hit Manning like a rag doll, run all over them, etc so those sorry ass finessers feel the might of SMASHMOUTH FOOTBALL.[/quote]

:woot: Well you sure as hell fired me up! Bring on the freakin' Packers !!!

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=Mattyk;744741]Rak is also averaging 4 hurries per game. Let's see how we can pick apart and discredit that stat shall we?[/quote]

No argument with you with the QB hurries, because that is a LEGIT stat.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

while it's nice he is getting some holding calls, he needs to learn how to get off those holds and get a sack, which will come in time. rak is still learning this is only his 5th game in his second season. he will be a sack machine and a perrenial pro bowler in due time, he is too gifted and focused to not succeed. i really think he is gonna have a multiple sack game tomorrow against green bay too.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=LavaRnChad;744728]It's three elite passrushers that he can watch and learn from... D-Ware, T. Suggs, and Freeney. When these guys get around their man, they do this low lean underneath the tackle's outside shoulder. When Rak beats his man, he is rushing around the end standing too high. That's how he winds up getting clothslined. Once he learns to hit the corner LEANING LOW, then he too will become an elite passrusher.[/quote]


.........or three of the best in the history of the NFL...........[B]Derrick Thomas,LT and Reggie White[/B]

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=Giantone;744808].........or three of the best in the history of the NFL...........[B]Derrick Thomas,LT and Reggie White[/B][/quote] Reggie White didn't need a lean. He could just maul you like a bear. Lol!

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=mlmdub130;744781]while it's nice he is getting some holding calls, he needs to learn how to get off those holds and get a sack. [/quote] Again, my man B-Mitch spoke about this. Some people don't realize that you can LEARN how to keep a man from holding you.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=LavaRnChad;744886]Again, my man B-Mitch spoke about this. Some people don't realize that you can LEARN how to keep a man from holding you.[/quote]

Yeah, now's a good time for him to learn the swim move, spin move, and other ways of using his hands to overcome holding.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

I think, instead of criticizing Rak, for not getting off of holds, how about holding the rest of the d-line/pass rushers to higher standard? If there was anyone else getting the the QB nearly as often as Rak, the non-calls wouldn't be as big of deal. The pressure that makes the quaterback move in the pocket should allow other rushers to have sack opportunities. Rak is doing a fine job, to think you can teach a player how to shed a block when he is being held on to seems a bit much too ask. Pressure from ANYONE else would make these non-calls moot.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=Mattyk;743845][url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/10/on_brian_orakpo_and_holding.html?wprss=dcsportsbog]D.C. Sports Bog - On Brian Orakpo and holding[/url]

He would probably be leading the league in sacks if it weren't for all the holding.[/quote]

dude i was thinking and arguing that same point.

The cowboys & eagle games are great examples.

Re: On Brian Orakpo and holding
 

[quote=LavaRnChad;744733]The holding stat can be misleading because of the different variables. If other passrushers played against the same tackles (especially the NFL's worst Alex Barron) and in front of the same officiating groups as Rak did, would they have forced the same amount of holding calls? Maybe more? Maybe less? It can't be determined, that's why the forced holding stat is useless when comparing player to player.[/quote]
You could say that about any stat. Every other pass rusher has been going up against different tackles in different situations, so there are always different circumstances when comparing different players. The forced holding stat is just as relevant as sacks and hurries.