Re: US Credit Rating Downgraded To AA+
 

[quote=NC_Skins;820825][YT]UErR7i2onW0[/YT]


When he's President, the same old same old will continue.[/quote]


Do you really think things will get better under Romney?

Re: US Credit Rating Downgraded To AA+
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;820839]Do you really think things will get better under Romney?[/quote]

Apparently you haven't seen my thoughts on politicians. I don't think it's going to get better with any party. Injected a X or Y person into a corrupt system is still going to yield corrupt results.

Re: US Credit Rating Downgraded To AA+
 

[quote=NC_Skins;820825][YT]UErR7i2onW0[/YT]


When he's President, the same old same old will continue.[/quote]

Yeah I mean he's completely full of ish. It's no secret at this point. He's damn near pathological. But so are all of them, on both sides of the aisle. Picking on any one candidate or any one party is silly. They're all broken.

[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jul/24/curl-is-obama-a-pathological-liar/?page=all]CURL: Is Obama a pathological liar? - Washington Times[/url]

Re: US Credit Rating Downgraded To AA+
 

[quote=GMScud;820861]Yeah I mean he's completely full of ish. It's no secret at this point. He's damn near pathological. But so are all of them, on both sides of the aisle. Picking on any one candidate or any one party is silly. They're all broken.

[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jul/24/curl-is-obama-a-pathological-liar/?page=all]CURL: Is Obama a pathological liar? - Washington Times[/url][/quote]

This is what qualifies one for a psychological liar these days? Our insider contradicts Obama and he changed the terms after pressure? Do you people not understand how dynamic negotiating is?

I guess Boner et al didn't have all the cards after afterall.

Re: US Credit Rating Downgraded To AA+
 

[quote=saden1;820892]This is what qualifies one for a psychological liar these days? Our insider contradicts Obama and he changed the terms after pressure? [B]Do you people not understand how dynamic negotiating is?
[/B]
I guess Boner et al didn't have all the cards after afterall.[/quote]

Seriously.

Re: US Credit Rating Downgraded To AA+
 

[quote=saden1;820892]This is what qualifies one for a [B]psychological liar[/B] these days? Our insider contradicts Obama and he changed the terms after pressure? [B]Do you people not understand how dynamic negotiating is?[/B]

I guess Boner et al didn't have all the cards after afterall.[/quote]

I don't know what a psychological liar is.

Funny you mention that about negotiating... I recently finished reading [I]Negotiating Rationally [/I]by Max Bazerman and Margaret Neale. Good read.

Mine was a statement that the Obama thing is just an example of... I was speaking in general about politics in this country. Obama is full of ish up to his ears, but he's certainly not the only one.

Re: US Credit Rating Downgraded To AA+
 

I guess if there's any silver lining in this shitty picture, and there really isn't, the other two major rating agencies, Fitch and Moody's, reaffirmed their credit rating for the U.S. It's worth noting that S&P did miss the boat horribly during the financial meltdown of 2008 and constantly miscalculated the severity of the pending bubble. I'm not smarter than the folks at S&P, but I think it's safe to say that investors still believe the United States still have the most transparent, stable, and trustworthy Treasuries in the world, bar none.

I haven't read their downgrade in it's entirety, but it appears to be more of a political analysis than a mathematical and economic one. They referenced both parties by name and the political gridlock as one of their chief concerns going forward. I find that a bit disturbing for a rating agency with so much global clout to inject itself into our national conversation in that manner. They should just stick to what they do and let the voters continue to send people to Washington deal with the politics. Just my 2 cents.

Re: US Credit Rating Downgraded To AA+
 

Good points, 12th. Especially the second paragraph.

Re: US Credit Rating Downgraded To AA+
 

This country has a financial structure problem. One side doesn't want entitlement cuts and wants to raise social spending, the other doesn't want to cut defense spending or raise taxes. Our political system is straight out of The Wire.

S&P is doing this country a favor over the long run by downgrading its rating.

Re: US Credit Rating Downgraded To AA+
 

[quote=12thMan;820912]I guess if there's any silver lining in this shitty picture, and there really isn't, the other two major rating agencies, Fitch and Moody's, reaffirmed their credit rating for the U.S. It's worth noting that S&P did miss the boat horribly during the financial meltdown of 2008 and constantly miscalculated the severity of the pending bubble. I'm not smarter than the folks at S&P, but I think it's safe to say that investors still believe the United States still have the most transparent, stable, and trustworthy Treasuries in the world, bar none.

I haven't read their downgrade in it's entirety, but it appears to be more of a political analysis than a mathematical and economic one. They referenced both parties by name and the political gridlock as one of their chief concerns going forward. I find that a bit disturbing for a rating agency with so much global clout to inject itself into our national conversation in that manner. They should just stick to what they do and let the voters continue to send people to Washington deal with the politics. Just my 2 cents.[/quote]


Why are we in the mess that we are in then? Who votes to spend the money like water? How could we not be downgraded when we are the worst nation on the planet in terms of total debt(rank 191 out of 191 nation states). Do you really think that our credit staying AAA wasn't due to politics? This nation should have been downgraded in 2008 or even before that. Do you really think this debt ceiling being raised is going to cure our ills? WE are going to default eventually, that is inevitable. Do you want to default down $14 trillion or say $20-24 trillion? Both parties are playing politics and are more concerned about getting reelected and pushing back financial armageddon til after the elections of 2012. S&P has every right to complain about our nations dysfunctional political system, for it is the main reason we are in this mess to begin with. Both parties are just two wings of the mega party that runs things in the US. Both wings are commanded by the same NE elites that run the banks and multinational corporations. Our Supreme Court also is dysfunctional, as it is on the take, along with the members of the House and Senate. Obama's cabinet is mostly Goldman Sach's flunkies. Everyone on Capitol Hill is owned by the Wall St banks. Do ou think re electing Obama is going to make things better? Romney? It will be business as usual whoever wins in 2012, as they are owned by the same people.

Re: US Credit Rating Downgraded To AA+
 

[quote=saden1;820923]This country has a financial structure problem. [B]One side doesn't want entitlement cuts and wants to raise social spending, the other doesn't want to cut defense spending or raise taxes.[/B] Our political system is straight out of The Wire.

S&P is doing this country a favor over the long run by downgrading its rating.[/quote]

and each are instransigent on these absolutely incompatible goals. The only thing the compromise on is - "let's just spend more money".

Re: US Credit Rating Downgraded To AA+
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;820925]Why are we in the mess that we are in then? Who votes to spend the money like water? How could we not be downgraded when we are the worst nation on the planet in terms of total debt(rank 191 out of 191 nation states). Do you really think that our credit staying AAA wasn't due to politics? This nation should have been downgraded in 2008 or even before that. Do you really think this debt ceiling being raised is going to cure our ills? WE are going to default eventually, that is inevitable. Do you want to default down $14 trillion or say $20-24 trillion? Both parties are playing politics and are more concerned about getting reelected and pushing back financial armageddon til after the elections of 2012. S&P has every right to complain about our nations dysfunctional political system, for it is the main reason we are in this mess to begin with. Both parties are just two wings of the mega party that runs things in the US. [B]Both wings are commanded by the same NE elites that run the banks and multinational corporations. Our Supreme Court also is dysfunctional, as it is on the take, along with the members of the House and Senate. Obama's cabinet is mostly Goldman Sach's flunkies. Everyone on Capitol Hill is owned by the Wall St banks. Do ou think re electing Obama is going to make things better? Romney? It will be business as usual whoever wins in 2012, as they are owned by the same people[/B].[/quote]

Sorry, I don't buy the "it's a conspiracy" part of the rant. It's been done before and will be done again. ("it's the Northeastern elite, it's the Jews, it's the Federal Reserve, it's the oil companies, etc.).

There are real philosophical differences about balancing the rights of the group v. the rights of individuals between the parties. Unfortunately, instead of intelligent debate about how those two interests should be balanced in order to fix the economy, both sides cater to the outer edges (not necessarily fringe) of their constintuencies and end up with a "Yeah Us!" platform that, in turn, leads to the gridlock saden1 so succinctly stated earlier.

Re: US Credit Rating Downgraded To AA+
 

Gus, if you read my post and several others in threads elsewhere we probably agree on more than we disagree. Actually, I think that's the case more often than not around here on Warpath but that's another story.

Secondly a rating agency, such as S&P, has no business whatsoever issuing a rating on our nation's credit worthiness based on the politics of the moment. They shouldn't do it today, they shouldn't do it tomorrow, they shouldn't do it ever. Besides we're talking about S&P, the same company that just three years ago handed out AAA ratings to failed banks and mortgage lenders like they were going out of style. So I find their recent track record a little suspect at best. As far as I'm concerned this downgrade is symbolic more than anything else and the good old U.S. of A. will keep on trucking.

In terms of who's the blame? There's plenty of that to go around and without getting into which party was right or wrong, all I know is since 1962 the debt ceiling has been raised 74 times, about once every eight months. Often times with little or no fanfare. But this year, for some reason, it became the laser focus of some members of Congress to the extent it brought us to the brink of default. Just to be clear the debt ceiling has nothing to due with future spending levels. We raise the debt ceiling to cover spending appropriated in the previous Congress. In other words, many of the politicians that were calling for drastic spending cuts and austerity measures are on record voting for the very bills that they now oppose in principle. Take from that whatever you will.

Re: US Credit Rating Downgraded To AA+
 

[quote=saden1;820923]This country has a financial structure problem. One side doesn't want entitlement cuts and wants to raise social spending, the other doesn't want to cut defense spending or raise taxes. Our political system is straight out of The Wire.

S&P is doing this country a favor over the long run by downgrading its rating.[/quote]Agree 100%. This downgrade may be what slaps some level of economic sense into DC.

Re: US Credit Rating Downgraded To AA+
 

Fannie and Freddie now downgraded (I'm amazed that didn't happen a few years ago). Are individual states next?

[url=http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_DEBT_RATING_SP?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-08-08-10-36-17]News from The Associated Press[/url]