Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=firstdown]I agree If you notice I ended by saying I wish we could fail like that.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I know, I was just elaborating on your point. :)

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

Losing Antonio Pierce would likely be a serious loss. He has been a coach on the field, the quarterback of the defense. Our defense could take a serious step backwards without him on the field.

Still, you can't overpay for one player - that would have a worse consequence. If Mike Barrow can get healthy, though, that would mitigate the loss of Pierce a lot because he can fill in that quarterback of the defense role. But Pierce would be a mainstay for years to come if we could sign him. Hopefully, he won't sign somewhere else just to make a little more money.

With the mess with Coles, this is what can happen when you don't sign "all for one and one for all" team players, and instead shoot for all the big star signings. Fortunately, in the Gibbs era, we have changed our philosophy. However, we are still in transition and it takes time to restructure your team.

Losing Smoot would be unfortunate, but we have good players who are ready to move into that spot, who may turn out to be new Antonio Pierce's, and there are free agents out there we can look at.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I like him a lot... I thought he was better than Champ...[/QUOTE]

I was riding right along with you two guys. Until we hit the Bailey-Smoot-comparison speed bump. :oink:

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=BossHog]I was riding right along with you two guys. Until we hit the Bailey-Smoot-comparison speed bump. :oink:[/QUOTE]


Champ as an athlete is much better than Smoot no doubt, but Smoot's instink's are much better, I try not to judge a player on athletic ability ALA Lavar, but on his abilities as a football player and I have alway's felt Smoot was a better football player he's just smarter than Champ, I never really voiced it to much because I know the kind of IRE I would come under but I have alway's felt that way, it's more of a knock on Champ than pro Smoot who I do like and hope he stay's but I also know Smoot is not an elite CB.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

BrudLee:

You forgot to mention Washington and Griffen as two of our top-shelf signings in free agency last year. They played a lot and they played VERY well!


CRT3:

I suggest that Danny Boy has a history of getting three catagories of players:

1. Players who used to be good (Deion, Bruuuuce, Mark Carrier) but are living on their reputations when he signs them.

2. Players who have prodigious physical skills but never seem to be on winning teams (Jeff George)

3. Players who are good but who get paid as if they are already in the Hall of Fame (Trotter, Morton, Coles)

You said they were "pretty close last year" . Pretty close to what? They were 6-10 and the division winner was 13-3. It looks to me as if they lost the division by 7 games and that is more games than they won all year.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

Gibbs was always a Coach who dug through the scrap heap and found guys like Doug Williams and Earnest Byner. They would draft guys in the 9th round (Jacobey) and turn them into amazing players.

Joe Gibbs always finds himself falling into hog shit and coming out smelling like a rose. I'm keeping the faith.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

While I'm wearing my burgundy colored glasses, I'll say that this could be a blessing in disguise for us. Maybe by losing guys like Coles, and Smoot we could possibly go 8-8. :Smoker:

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]BrudLee:

You forgot to mention Washington and Griffen as two of our top-shelf signings in free agency last year. They played a lot and they played VERY well!


CRT3:

I suggest that Danny Boy has a history of getting three catagories of players:

1. Players who used to be good (Deion, Bruuuuce, Mark Carrier) but are living on their reputations when he signs them.

2. Players who have prodigious physical skills but never seem to be on winning teams (Jeff George)

3. Players who are good but who get paid as if they are already in the Hall of Fame (Trotter, Morton, Coles)

You said they were "pretty close last year" . Pretty close to what? They were 6-10 and the division winner was 13-3. It looks to me as if they lost the division by 7 games and that is more games than they won all year.[/QUOTE]

Is it so much Danny Boy or is it REALLY Vince!!! We really need a DECENT GM that doesn't go by reputation as much as what pieces can actually fit with what we have, and would work with what the team wants to do offensively and defensively..............

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

I want Coles to be a Redskin, but I dont think that Smoot or Pierce deserve big money. Pierce had one great year in a great system. Mabye he can use his mental awareness to be a good player but we could easily upgrade him with someone more physically gifted and plug him into williams system. We dotn have tons of cap, and we've made plenty of mistakes. I want us to keep more of our own players and stop getting old free agent. So heres a great opportunity for us to start building in the draft. In recent years rookies have been having huge impacts. Especially at the linebacker and corner positions

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=drew54]Gibbs was always a Coach who dug through the scrap heap and found guys like Doug Williams and Earnest Byner. They would draft guys in the 9th round (Jacobey) and turn them into amazing players.

Joe Gibbs always finds himself falling into hog shit and coming out smelling like a rose. I'm keeping the faith.[/QUOTE]


No he wasen't that was Bobby Beatherd who did the digging.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]CRT3:

I suggest that Danny Boy has a history of getting three catagories of players:

1. Players who used to be good (Deion, Bruuuuce, Mark Carrier) but are living on their reputations when he signs them.

2. Players who have prodigious physical skills but never seem to be on winning teams (Jeff George)

3. Players who are good but who get paid as if they are already in the Hall of Fame (Trotter, Morton, Coles)

You said they were "pretty close last year" . Pretty close to what? They were 6-10 and the division winner was 13-3. It looks to me as if they lost the division by 7 games and that is more games than they won all year.[/QUOTE]

You mentioned to Brud that we had some good signing last year such as Grifftth and Washington but what catagory do they fall in? Carrier I would debate with you cause he acutally played pretty good as well as Deon. Remember Deon left because of Shot being a task master. The last catagory you put in #3 is what those guys got on the market and quite honestly if they can get it then they should get it. Coles has been great except for this current little bump and the fumble he had in Cleveland at the end of the game this year. Trotter was lossed to serious knee injury into his 1st year. It take 2 years to recover from that and the system just did not fit him. Either change the system or get rid of the player. Apparently he has proved his value in Philly with a Pro Bowl.

As to being so close, they really were. They competed in every single game to the very end where they had a chance to win in all games up to the very end. The game was never over at halftime. In fact if they just averaged 19 points a game they would be 12-5. I think that is pretty clse don't you?

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]I want Coles to be a Redskin, but I dont think that Smoot or Pierce deserve big money. Pierce had one great year in a great system. Mabye he can use his mental awareness to be a good player but we could easily upgrade him with someone more physically gifted and plug him into williams system. We dotn have tons of cap, and we've made plenty of mistakes. I want us to keep more of our own players and stop getting old free agent. So heres a great opportunity for us to start building in the draft. In recent years rookies have been having huge impacts. Especially at the linebacker and corner positions[/QUOTE]

what about the possibility of trading down our 1st round pick atleast once if we're able to sign mason, and then using our traded down pick and drafting mlb ahmad brooks or any other really good mlb in this years draft. I 2 like peirce and I also agree that the system definitely helped him look a little better than he might be but I still hope they resign him the most out of our free agents. I just hope his asking price doesn't get too high cuz I don't know about u guys but I don't see him being worth more than 15-18 million over 5 years with a 4-6 million dollar bonus or maybe even a bit less.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=offiss]No he wasen't that was Bobby Beatherd who did the digging.[/QUOTE]


Damn, your right. We need a GM.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[quote=sshane]With the mess with Coles, this is what can happen when you don't sign "all for one and one for all" team players, and instead shoot for all the big star signings. Fortunately, in the Gibbs era, we have changed our philosophy. However, we are still in transition and it takes time to restructure your team.[/quote]

coles was signed cause spurrier needed a flashy WR, and he got one... the only "problem" was that coles wasn't signed for gibbs, he was inherited from a VERY different system... you can't say he's not a team player or hard worker though, he's just not happy that A) its not a pass first offense and B) they lost a lot of games.... i bet if only one of those two things happened last year he'd be fine with it.

[quote=boshog]I was riding right along with you two guys. Until we hit the Bailey-Smoot-comparison speed bump. [/quote]

all i know about champ is that i watched 3-4 denver games last year and he looked TERRIBLE in all of them... kept falling down and getting burned. The only reason he had soo many tackles is cause he LET HIS GUY CATCH THE BALL ;)...

[quote=drew54]Gibbs was always a Coach who dug through the scrap heap and found guys like Doug Williams and Earnest Byner. They would draft guys in the 9th round (Jacobey) and turn them into amazing players.

Joe Gibbs always finds himself falling into hog shit and coming out smelling like a rose. I'm keeping the faith.[/quote]

Actually, gibbs had a REALLY good GM finding those players for him. Right now he's got the influence of vinny, danny, williams and his own judgement (brunell :P)... of which i'd honestly trust williams the most. The problem is we could use a really good GM... First you've got to see what you're system is, then find the players to fill it... Mr. B mentioned that the biggest problem he had was knowing when to say "that player is really good and going to be a star, but he's not the right guy for our system"...