Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;980538]Any Redskins fans around from when the Cowboys started using the shotgun, and Gibbs wouldn't use it. I just think this is a very close facsimile of that, except in reverse.

[B]There are a bunch of Cowboys fans on their board that says this will never work.[/B] The problem with that is, the whole premise of the pistol blends the best part of a pro-style running game - north south hard hitting running, with the best part of a shotgun formation, the qb's ability to survey the d while standing and receiving the ball in a position that he can release it quickly. It also removes the inherent weakness of the qb lining up under center - which means he has his head down, and is immediately moving backwards at the snap, and the weakness of the shotgun which forces the running game to be much more east west, and less effective.[/quote]

Those Cowboyszone fans are correct. It will never work. That's why our offense is in the top 5. :)

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=Mattyk;980512]I'd say its the threat of the QB being able to run period.

As the season has gone on Griffin has run less and less, but the offense still works.[/quote]

This is how I see it. And your second statement is key IMO.

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=Lotus;980520]No. The pistol is a formation, not a play. There is no premise that the QB will keep the ball. You can run the pistol without the QB's EVER keeping the ball. You can run the pistol without EVER running a read option.

You seem not to be able to differentiate the pistol (a formation) from the read option (which is a play).[/quote]

Curious how/why the pistol puts the defense back on its heels in your opinion?

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=Defensewins;980542]Watching Baylor running the pistol against UCLA in the Holiday Bowl on ESPN right now. RB Martin IV looks good. Big, strong, hard running RB that would look good in the burgundy and gold. Just saying.[/quote]

Quiet a few good prospects from today's games; I'm gonna have to update the draft thread later. Cincy has a TE who's brother playes center for the eagles(kelce). He looks great and is gonna go late.

The pistol is used well at Baylor. Florence has kept Baylor relevant after RG3 left and the offense really hasn't skipped a beat with him in there. Wouldn't surprise me in a year or two if two pistol offensive guys (Chris Ault of Nevada and Art Briles of Baylor) were head coaching candidates for the NFL.

[QUOTE=The Goat;980561]Curious how/why the pistol puts the defense back on its heels in your opinion?[/QUOTE]

In the pistol the defense sees a look that forces it to account for both an inside run, and 2 quick release passes - one to a flanked wr and one to a TE on an inside seam route. They are forced to defend the whole field from sideline to sideline and from the LOS to 6 yds deep within a second of the snap. If the qb reads it right, there is almost always a scheme advantage to the offense.

Also, defending the whole field is tiring. Think about a WR screen. from the offensive side, the qb gets the snap and releases it, the WR is in position so until he catches it there isn't a lot of energy spent, but the dline at the snap is pushing hard upfield and in a split second is turning against its grain and running across the field. MS has said that's the reason we see so many wide plays at the beginning of games, to get those dline guys running sideline to sideline.

Further, an under the center the snap that is a designed pass gives the defense a few steps to set up as the qb takes his drop, a shotgun formation allows the dline to be more aggressive towards the pass rush, because inside runs are hard from that formation.

The key to the pistol is having a qb that can quickly see the best point of attack on the presnap and at the snap reads, the article pointed out this is one of RG3s strengths that doesn't get mentioned as much.

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=SmootSmack;980426][URL="http://www.sbnation.com/longform/2012/12/27/3792740/pistol-offense-nfl-redskins-rg3"]The future is already here: How the Pistol Offense is changing the NFL - SBNation.com[/URL][/quote]


Nice read,yet I disgaree it's the future. A fad or trend yes and as most do they work...for a while .If they run up against a defense that is discipline in it's assignments you run into trouble.Go back to the 70's and you'll see a few teams tinkered with the wishbone offense but the D coordinators figured it out and it stopped.Assign a man to each player,1 take the up back another the QB and one the pitch man and just tackel them ball or no ball.
The option ,Pistol ...whatever it is ,is working becuase of pass rushers who won't play the run and aren't dissipline JPP and Ware come to mind.What makes Griffin so good is his sight and speed ,for as new as he is in the NFL he reads D's very well and can pretty much out run anyone on the field all of this makes his play play fakes more deadly.

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;980571]In the pistol the defense sees a look that forces it to account for both an inside run, and 2 quick release passes - one to a flanked wr and one to a TE on an inside seam route. They are forced to defend the whole field from sideline to sideline and from the LOS to 6 yds deep within a second of the snap. If the qb reads it right, there is almost always a scheme advantage to the offense.

Also, defending the whole field is tiring. Think about a WR screen. from the offensive side, the qb gets the snap and releases it, the WR is in position so until he catches it there isn't a lot of energy spent, but the dline at the snap is pushing hard upfield and in a split second is turning against its grain and running across the field. MS has said that's the reason we see so many wide plays at the beginning of games, to get those dline guys running sideline to sideline.

Further, an under the center the snap that is a designed pass gives the defense a few steps to set up as the qb takes his drop, a shotgun formation allows the dline to be more aggressive towards the pass rush, because inside runs are hard from that formation.

The key to the pistol is having a qb that can quickly see the best point of attack on the presnap and at the snap reads, the article pointed out this is one of RG3s strengths that doesn't get mentioned as much.[/quote]

Well put CRed!

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=The Goat;980561]Curious how/why the pistol puts the defense back on its heels in your opinion?[/quote]

Having three guys in the backfield in addition to our incredible QB allows for multiple backfield run options and multiple backfield blockers. This versatility is not present in the the conventional shotgun formation.
Having the QB five or so steps back, instead of under center give the QB time to adjust to an unblocked pass rusher in the play action passing game. Harder to sack the QB. The pistol combines the best of all formations.

But IMO what really makes it work for the Skins is our personnel and play calling. RGIII makes it all go, but unheard of guys like Logan Paulsen, Darrell Young and Niles Paul are a force in the running game and pass protection. I have not seen one them all season get knocked back on their ass while blocking. They are physical players in an age of football where physical play takes a back seat to high flying offenses and high stats passing games. You can not put a stat or value on physical play, because our uneducated NFL fans only wants to see long passes and TD's because that is all they understand.
[B]Balance[/B] on offense [B]as always is the key[/B] and the a potent down field pass attack from just two WR's, weather it be from Garcon and Morgan or a combination Moss, Aldrick Robinson and Hankerson is vital to keeping LB's and safety's guessing. They can not key on one thing- a physical and deceptive running game or a potent down field passing game. [B]Balance is what makes it all work and keeps the DB's and LB's on their heels.[/B]

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

Excellent points DW

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

Lotus has pointed it out often, but there are two separate and distinct parts to this.

The first is the formation (Pistol). I think you will see it sweep in next year, and with a nod to Cowboys Week, I can honestly say, I don't want to see it run by them this week. Murray, Witten, Bryant and Austin on the edges, and Romo directing it in pistol would be very potent against our D, even with Fletcher reading the play. But I think Garrett/Jones is to prideful to bring it in to their building, which is fine by me.

The second is a particular play (zone read). I think this will die out quickly, if it hasn't already. I don't know the specific stats but I think we maybe did it 3 times in the last 3 games. Griffin is an excellent ball handler, and decision maker, so he is good at it. But defenses are quick, and once they know where the ball is going they converge quickly so that the zone read tends to get snuffed out for minimal gain.

Basically, the pistol gives you a half second to second edge against the defense, which a qb can exploit with[LIST][*]a quick pass out to the edge if the corners are creeping in[*]a slant in the middle of the field if the LB's are stacking the box[*]a handoff, if the lbs are dropping into coverage[/LIST]That is something most offensive coordinators will love. On the other hand, the zone-read from out of the pistol uses that half second edge as an opportunity for Griffin to make a play with his natural (and amazing) speed to the corner.

The zone read playcall can't last because Griffin will slow down, and he will get hurt, the pistol formation will last, because oc's and qb's will find ways to take advantage of the defensive hesitation.

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;980613]Lotus has pointed it out often, but there are two separate and distinct parts to this.

The first is the formation (Pistol). I think you will see it sweep in next year, and with a nod to Cowboys Week, I can honestly say, I don't want to see it run by them this week. Murray, Witten, Bryant and Austin on the edges, and Romo directing it in pistol would be very potent against our D, even with Fletcher reading the play. But I think Garrett/Jones is to prideful to bring it in to their building, which is fine by me.

The second is a particular play (zone read). I think this will die out quickly, if it hasn't already. I don't know the specific stats but I think we maybe did it 3 times in the last 3 games. Griffin is an excellent ball handler, and decision maker, so he is good at it. But defenses are quick, and once they know where the ball is going they converge quickly so that the zone read tends to get snuffed out for minimal gain.

Basically, the pistol gives you a half second to second edge against the defense, which a qb can exploit with[LIST][*]a quick pass out to the edge if the corners are creeping in[*]a slant in the middle of the field if the LB's are stacking the box[*]a handoff, if the lbs are dropping into coverage[/LIST]That is something most offensive coordinators will love. On the other hand, the zone-read from out of the pistol uses that half second edge as an opportunity for Griffin to make a play with his natural (and amazing) speed to the corner.

The zone read playcall can't last because Griffin will slow down, and he will get hurt, the pistol formation will last, because oc's and qb's will find ways to take advantage of the defensive hesitation.[/quote]

Agreed . . . this is how i look at it . . . what i don't understand is why everyone is saying the pistol formation puts a QB at further risk . . . i understand what the thinking is around the option plays and how that may add an extra risk, but the pistol formation itself would, IMO actually add a tiny bit of extra time, therefore a tiny bit of extra protection . . . isn't the pistol formation really just an i-formation or a pro-formation with the qb 3 - 4 yards deep instead of under center??

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

I dunno, I think they are using the right plays now, but it looks to be constantly changing also.

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

So if QB keeps aren't central to the pistol's effectiveness and it provides an insurmountable advantage for the offense, we should absolutely see P Manning and Brady run it next season, yes?

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=The Goat;980650]So if QB keeps aren't central to the pistol's effectiveness and it provides an insurmountable advantage for the offense, we should absolutely see P Manning and Brady run it next season, yes?[/quote]

:doh:

Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense
 

[quote=Chico23231;980654]:doh:[/quote]

That's mighty intelligent if I do say...