Re: rooting for Goliath
 

My response would be our door is always open, feel free to walk back the way you came.

I don't have the time or energy to babysit everyone. Extreme cases get the boot.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

....and I would add a "PLEASE" to that....LOL

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]Will it surprise you if I don't agree?

I am a veteran of some debate boards, politics and religion, where the moderators are very strict. The way you and others make ad hominem attacks here would never be tolerated on those boards.

Since there is no impartial panel on these boards to judge who has won a debate, I've devised my own way.

Strawman arguments are the first sign of frustration. When opponents have to twist my words to come up with arguments, they're all but done.

The next level of growing frustration is the logical fallacy referred to sometimes as Appeal to Popularity: "Everyone here thinks you're wrong." I get a lot of these because I'm self-confident enough to present controversial positions.

In the final stage, losers vent their frustration with the ad hominem fallacy, personal attacks in lieu of arguments. I get a lot of those.

When a poster continually alternates personal attacks with strawman arguments, I ignore their posts. They waste my time.

Your most recent post is nothing more than a belated ad hominem attack which would signal to any impartial mind reading this (if there is one) that you are bearing a grudge. I wonder why?[/quote]

This post is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You seem to view these discussions as a debate to be won or lost. I certainly don't feel that way about discussions around these parts, and I doubt others do either. I just sense that some find you obnoxious. It's alright, we're all obnoxious from time to time. Daseal and his puppy-kicking pessimism, Malcolm and his schizophrenic screen names, #56fanatic and his love affair with Lavar, and of course me for writing posts like this. But all this is to say that I wish you'd drop the whole attitude that every discussion is a pissing match. If I promise to tell you that you're right after every post, will you brush the chip off your shoulder? Because I really don't care about winning debates with you, and if that's what it takes to get you to chill, I'm willing to do it.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Schneed10]I just sense that some find you obnoxious. It's alright, we're all obnoxious from time to time.[/quote]

Except me, of course. I'm never obnoxious.

......wait, was that obnoxious?

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=PSUSkinsFan21] It couldn't be that you're simply wrong. No....that's just not possible. LOL![/quote]

Of course it's possible, and it can sometimes be proven by making a sound logical argument. You should try it sometime.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]Of course it's possible, and it can sometimes be proven by making a sound logical argument. You should try it sometime.[/quote]

Wow, pot calling the kettle black here. Bit hypocritical aren't we? Given your recent "I'm of a higher standard than everyone else here" posts?

I've tried arguing with you on multiple occasions via sound logical argument. And rather than engage me, you've deliberately avoided taking my arguments head on. Or, you've simply addressed only small segments of my overall arguments, quoted them, taken them out of context, focused on them even though they weren't the main thrust of the argument I was making, and/or have completely ignored every argument I've made that has proven your point wrong (even when a number of other people on the same thread could understand my arguments and points without confusion). I'm not about to rehash the whole statistics argument, but the fact is I killed you in that debate.

See, you're not the only one who can come off like a condescending prick.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

go skins

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]Of course it's possible, and it can sometimes be proven by making a sound logical argument. You should try it sometime.[/quote]lets all just let it go

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

Schneed10

[QUOTE]This post is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You seem to view these discussions as a debate to be won or lost. I certainly don't feel that way about discussions around these parts, and I doubt others do either. [/QUOTE]

When people mostly agree on an issue, they discuss it. When they don't, and they make an argument for their positions, it's a debate by my definition.

Besides, you're coming across as holier-than-thou for someone who arrogantly puts down posters with regularity for the stupidity of their opinions.

I don't do that.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=PSUSkinsFan21]Wow, pot calling the kettle black here. Bit hypocritical aren't we? Given your recent "I'm of a higher standard than everyone else here" posts?

I've tried arguing with you on multiple occasions via sound logical argument. And rather than engage me, you've deliberately avoided taking my arguments head on. Or, you've simply addressed only small segments of my overall arguments, quoted them, taken them out of context, focused on them even though they weren't the main thrust of the argument I was making, and/or have completely ignored every argument I've made that has proven your point wrong (even when a number of other people on the same thread could understand my arguments and points without confusion). I'm not about to rehash the whole statistics argument, but the fact is I killed you in that debate.

See, you're not the only one who can come off like a condescending prick.[/quote]

Huddle, just wanted to point out that this shows I'm not the only one you're chafing. There are no grudges held, it's just your style is grating.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=gibbsisgod]lets all just let it go[/quote]

... or we can just all royal rumble.

My strategy: I choose to lay low take a few shots like this. I'll be patient and let others do the dirty work and knock everyone else out and then explode when it's me and someone else left standing :)

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=warriorzpath]... or we can just all royal rumble.

My strategy: I choose to lay low take a few shots like this. I'll be patient and let others do the dirty work and knock everyone else out and then explode when it's me and someone else left standing :)[/quote]Thats dirty pool man.:cheeky-sm

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]Schneed10



When people mostly agree on an issue, they discuss it. When they don't, and they make an argument for their positions, it's a debate by my definition.

Besides, you're coming across as holier-than-thou for someone who arrogantly puts down posters with regularity for the stupidity of their opinions.

I don't do that.[/quote]

I don't remember ever calling a single soul on this site stupid. I've never even said an opinion is stupid. I tend to say things like "that makes no sense to me", or "I strongly disagree with that."

I don't mean to come across holier than thou, because no doubt I've gotten on people's nerves around here before. I'm probably annoying several people other than you just by perpetuating this discussion. And I tend to express strong opinions, which annoys people sometimes. And I like that you have strong opinions, but I'd rather see us stick to discussing those opinions rather than get into such banalities as "logical fallacies" and "ad hominem attacks."

I don't mean to come at you or put you down. I respect your opinions. But it'd be good if you showed respect for the opinions of others as well, because I think the disrespect and condescending nature is what is making people chafe at your presence here. If we just focus on the content of our discussions rather than try to win debates like we're on Crossfire, I think we'd get along a bit better. That's all.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Schneed10]Huddle, just wanted to point out that this shows I'm not the only one you're chafing. There are no grudges held, it's just your style is grating.[/quote]

I just don't get where this guy comes off making a statement like he did to me? The mere implication that perhaps he was actually wrong lead to an attack about my ability to make logical arguments? It's a completely unsupportable statement made simply because he took it as a personal attack when I dared suggest that his royal highness could actually have been wrong for once? And then he has the nerve to say that other people (namely you) are acting "holier-than-though"? If there's one thing I can't stand it's a hypocrit. I can deal with just about anything else, but hypocracy makes my blood boil.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

Hey Huddle, which political debate boards are you a member of ? I'm into the political thing too, I just wish we had one here at the Warpath again.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=PSUSkinsFan21]Wow, pot calling the kettle black here. Bit hypocritical aren't we? Given your recent "I'm of a higher standard than everyone else here" posts?

I've tried arguing with you on multiple occasions via sound logical argument. And rather than engage me, you've deliberately avoided taking my arguments head on. Or, you've simply addressed only small segments of my overall arguments, quoted them, taken them out of context, focused on them even though they weren't the main thrust of the argument I was making, and/or have completely ignored every argument I've made that has proven your point wrong (even when a number of other people on the same thread could understand my arguments and points without confusion). I'm not about to rehash the whole statistics argument, but the fact is I killed you in that debate.

See, you're not the only one who can come off like a condescending prick.[/quote]


In the stats debate, you tried to taunt me and browbeat me into setting myself up for some flim-flam logic. Now, if you had just asked me nicely if I could prove that your Aaron Brooks claim was untrue, I would have told you that I could not.

I would have added that if you claimed that Santa existed, I could not prove you wrong either. And, if you claimed Elvis lives, I could not have proved that wrong either.

Unfortunately, the thread was locked before we got to that point.

Do you want to finish it here?

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=PSUSkinsFan21]I just don't get where this guy comes off making a statement like he did to me? The mere implication that perhaps he was actually wrong lead to an attack about my ability to make logical arguments? It's a completely unsupportable statement made simply because he took it as a personal attack when I dared suggest that his royal highness could actually have been wrong for once? And then he has the nerve to say that other people (namely you) are acting "holier-than-though"? If there's one thing I can't stand it's a hypocrit. I can deal with just about anything else, but hypocracy makes my blood boil.[/quote]

Since he's such a fan of logic, one might think he'd detest a hypocrite as much as you do. So I hear you. The fundamental argument he's making amidst all this ruckus is that he hasn't been wrong in this thread, and hence any argument in which he's been challenged is deemed illogical. That shows a refusal to even consider other viewpoints as valid. Someone who was open to discussion would just say well I disagree, and maybe explain why he disagrees. But by actually dismissing other viewpoints as "illogical" reeks of arrogance.

Opinions cannot be won or lost. They are discussed and debated. But (and this is a LOGICAL argument) opinions are by definition a personal thing. There is no right and wrong conclusion when an opinion is debated, only the own personal conclusions to be drawn on our own as individuals. To assume than any argument contrary to yours is invalid, illogical, and is a losing argument reeks of arrogance and disrespect for the thoughts of others.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]Schneed10
Besides, you're coming across as holier-than-thou for someone who arrogantly puts down posters with regularity for the stupidity of their opinions.

I don't do that.[/quote]

And wouldn't this qualify as an "ad hominem attack"? Seems like you're calling me a name, with the whole holier-than-thou reference. Isn't that the last stage, as you put it?

How about you go back and address my posts #71 and #73. I never heard your opinion, and since your opinions are always right, I'd like to know if I got these questions right on my test. I await your opinions.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]In the stats debate, you tried to taunt me and browbeat me into setting myself up for some flim-flam logic. Now, if you had just asked me nicely if I could prove that your Aaron Brooks claim was untrue, I would have told you that I could not.

I would have added that if you claimed that Santa existed, I could not prove you wrong either. And, if you claimed Elvis lives, I could not have proved that wrong either.

Unfortunately, the thread was locked before we got to that point.

Do you want to finish it here?[/quote]

Why bother? Is there any way short of God striking you down that you'll admit you're wrong? I see no point to continue an argument in which you were proven wrong by a number of members of this site, yet failed to admit or recognize such.

And what the heck are you talking about? If you asked me nice. What? First of all, when I first asked that question, I was anything but hostile. Second, to the extent you believe you are entitled to any special courtesies, I can assure you I've never treated you with any less respect than you have shown to the other members of this site including myself. Third, to the extent you believe I need to ask you to answer my question in a certain or extraordinarily polite way: this isn't college, you are not my professor, and you are no better than me or anyone else on this site. Finally, your above post just proves that you completely missed the point of the Aaron Brooks argument (either that or you've intentially side-stepped it), and I have no interest in trying to explain it to you all over again. Last I saw, however, I don't know of too many people who have used statistics to show that Santa Claus exists or that Elvis is dead (which, by the way, are factual issues, not matters of opinion that are supportable or not supportable by statistics).

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=PSUSkinsFan21]I just don't get where this guy comes off making a statement like he did to me? The mere implication that perhaps he was actually wrong lead to an attack about my ability to make logical arguments? It's a completely unsupportable statement made simply because he took it as a personal attack when I dared suggest that his royal highness could actually have been wrong for once? And then he has the nerve to say that other people (namely you) are acting "holier-than-though"? If there's one thing I can't stand it's a hypocrit. I can deal with just about anything else, but hypocracy makes my blood boil.[/quote]

Your insecurities are showing.

You've been digging at me. I tossed a line back at you and you crumple.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]Your insecurities are showing.

You've been digging at me. I tossed a line back at you and you crumple.[/quote]

Ad Hominem attack.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=PSUSkinsFan21]Last I saw, however, I don't know of too many people who have used statistics to show that Santa Claus exists or that Elvis is dead (which, by the way, are factual issues, not matters of opinion that are supportable or not supportable by statistics).[/quote]

I think you missed the point that there are many claims you might make which I could not disprove.

So, take your shot. Let me hear your logical argument.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Schneed10]Ad Hominem attack.[/quote]

I plead not guilty: self-defense.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]I think you missed the point that there are many claims you might make which I could not disprove.

So, take your shot. Let me hear your logical argument.[/quote]

Well, one could prove that Elvis is dead by exhuming his body and matching his teeth to his dental records. But of course neither the family or any judge would go for that just to resolve this little dispute.

And if we're really going to try to debate the existence of Santa Claus, then things are really getting ridiculous around here. It's a pointless argument just for the sake of argument.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]Your insecurities are showing.

You've been digging at me. I tossed a line back at you and you crumple.[/quote]

Ok, so you obviously relish being a hypocrite? I can think of nobody on this site more insecure than you. The mere implication that you are wrong turns you into a name-calling child. Yet, you also want to call others holier-than-thou and try to come off as of some higher standard? Do you really not see this? Are you really that far off-base? Do you own a mirror?

I'd ask you how I "crumpled", but it's really not worth it, is it?

It's exactly this type of behavior that makes people dislike you. Actually, I don't want to speak for everyone else........it's what makes me dislike you (and make no mistake about it, I'm not mixing words here, I really do dislike you). When you learn how to argue and engage in debate at something above a 10th-grade level without name-calling, then come talk to me. Until then, I have no interest in getting into a pissing match with someone who actually believes that they cannot be wrong and fails to see the hypocracy of their own actions.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]I plead not guilty: self-defense.[/quote]

Logical fallacy.

Self defense applies to the American legal system, particularly when one feels an impending and reasonable threat, thereby justifying one to take action to prevent the said threat from being carried out.

You're assuming that calling names represents a threat and therefore justifies your actions in calling a name back. Calling someone a name in response does nothing to prevent any threats from being carried out.

Self Defense is used to prevent something from happening to you. That doesn't apply over a message board, you can't prevent anything.

Bring it on logic boy.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

.

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[quote=Huddle]I think you missed the point that there are many claims you might make which I could not disprove.

So, take your shot. Let me hear your logical argument.[/quote]

Like I said, when you grow up, I'll engage you. Furthermore, Matty locked the thread for a reason, and I'm not about to go over his head.

Besides, you've already made my point for me. By taking your position on statistics, you recognize that you will never be able to prove someone else's statments about a player's ability wrong.....so there's really nothing to argue about.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Schneed10]Logical fallacy.

Self defense applies to the American legal system, particularly when one feels an impending and reasonable threat, thereby justifying one to take action to prevent the said threat from being carried out.

You're assuming that calling names represents a threat and therefore justifies your actions in calling a name back. Calling someone a name in response does nothing to prevent any threats from being carried out.

Self Defense is used to prevent something from happening to you. That doesn't apply over a message board, you can't prevent anything.

Bring it on logic boy.[/quote]

beat me to it.......beautiful post Schneed.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[QUOTE]How about you go back and address my posts #71 and #73. I never heard your opinion, and since your opinions are always right, I'd like to know if I got these questions right on my test. I await your opinions.[/QUOTE]

You don't actually expect me to comment on your posts when you ask like a smartass do you?

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]You don't actually expect me to comment on your posts when you ask like a smartass do you?[/quote]

Shame on you Schneed. Don't you know who you're talking to here? When you ask Huddle a question, you must ask it in a certain way. You must be "nice" when you ask it. How DARE you disrespect the Almighty Huddle that way!

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Schneed10]Logical fallacy.

Self defense applies to the American legal system, particularly when one feels an impending and reasonable threat, thereby justifying one to take action to prevent the said threat from being carried out.

You're assuming that calling names represents a threat and therefore justifies your actions in calling a name back. Calling someone a name in response does nothing to prevent any threats from being carried out.

Self Defense is used to prevent something from happening to you. That doesn't apply over a message board, you can't prevent anything.

Bring it on logic boy.[/quote]

I. Name calling was not involved; the charge should be dismissed.

2. You most certainly can prevent further attack by demonstrating that you're willing to defend yourself.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

this is all becoming quite comical(sp?)

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]I. Name calling was not involved; the charge should be dismissed.

2. You most certainly can prevent further attack by demonstrating that you're willing to defend yourself.[/quote]

1. Let's see. Insecure and incapable of offering logical argument? Not name calling? Technically, maybe not, but the comments were meant for the same purpose as name calling.

2. I can assure you, with respect to me, you are wrong.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

PSUSkinsFan21

[QUOTE]Like I said, when you grow up, I'll engage you. Furthermore, Matty locked the thread for a reason, and I'm not about to go over his head.[/QUOTE]

Just as I figured. You've got nothing.

[QUOTE] Besides, you've already made my point for me. By taking your position on statistics, you recognize that you will never be able to prove someone else's statments about a player's ability wrong.....so there's really nothing to argue about.[/QUOTE]

You're right, by taking my position on statistics, I'll never be able to prove someone else's statement about a player wrong (nor can they prove they're right).

But that wasn't what the debate was about...was it?

As to the debate on whether or not conventional football stats actually have value, your point is completely irrelevant.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]PSUSkinsFan21



Just as I figured. You've got nothing.



You're right, by taking my position on statistics, I'll never be able to prove someone else's statement about a player wrong (nor can they prove they're right).

But that wasn't what the debate was about...was it?

As to the debate on whether or not conventional football stats actually have value, your point is completely irrelevant.[/quote]

I'll tell you what, you get Matty to approve our reopening of this debate, and we'll have some fun. You see, I actually have some respect for the moderators on this site........and I'm not about to apologize for that.

Hmmm, respect for others.....you taking notes yet?

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=PSUSkinsFan21]I'll tell you what, you get Matty to approve our reopening of this debate, and we'll have some fun. You see, I actually have some respect for the moderators on this site........and I'm not about to apologize for that.[/quote]

Hey, Matty. Are you there?

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

Logging off for the night. I will be sure to check back tomorrow asap. Sweet dreams.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=PSUSkinsFan21]Logging off for the night. I will be sure to check back tomorrow asap. Sweet dreams.[/quote]

Yeah. I was about to do the same. Have a good evening [I](said with sincerity).[/I]

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]
Besides, you're coming across as holier-than-thou for someone who arrogantly puts down posters with regularity for the stupidity of their opinions.

I don't do that.[/quote]

IRONY at its best.