Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;281303]the two things it boils down to is number1 money will we pay clements like san fran or new orleans will try to and number 2 what will we give up for bly

and would you rather have bly and smoot or nate clements[/quote]

bly & smoot, if we could get them at reasonable prices.
I wonder if we're looking at Bly for only the last year of his contract. Even if we have a habit of spending on fa's, we haven't spent that much on a 30 yr. old since 2000.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=GTripp0012;281310]Clements.

Assuming we keep Springs.[/quote]


i would rather have clements if we didnt keep springs to me he is washed up

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;281315]i would rather have clements if we didnt keep springs to me he is washed up[/quote]Springs would be ideal in a one-season nickelback role.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote]Perhaps they're looking at Bly/Smoot as a nickel?

With the way last year went I can't see us going after just one corner and thinking our problems are solved.[/quote]
They want a first day pick for Bly. That's a hard sell for a nickle.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=Daseal;281319]They want a first day pick for Bly. That's a hard sell for a nickle.[/quote]

C'mon now this is the Skins we're talking about... besides a first day pick could be as low as a 3rd rounder.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=Mattyk72;281320]C'mon now this is the Skins we're talking about... besides a first day pick could be as low as a 3rd rounder.[/quote]

you think Millen would be interested in a 3rd next yr? I would bet that he'd rather have his picks sooner than later, since his time is running out.
Ultimately that's why we won't get Bly, if we even are really that interested in him. My guess is the fo enquired about a deal, but won't pursue it too much. I can't see that we have anything to offer this year.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=GTripp0012;281318]Springs would be ideal in a one-season nickelback role.[/quote]


yeah if he could stay on the field

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

I honestly don't think going after a high priced CB is in the best interest of the skins this year. We are strapped for cash and we need to stop looking for a way to get good quickly. A much LESS RISKY and higher possibility of reward scenario would be:

1)Trading down our #6 pick to a team that needs a QB (b/c brady quinn will probably still be on the board) or a defensive player (like St Louis, Green Bay or Tennessee) for a middle 1st rounder and a 2nd round pick.

2) We could then still get one of our defensive linemen (branch, anderson, adams, or okoye) and use the 2nd round pick to draft again on defense (possibly a CB, with potential that needs a year or two to develop, maybe Josh Wilson?).

3) In FA, pick up a [I]cheaper[/I] immediately able to start CB like Smoot. And hopefully sign London Fletcher.

This gives us spread out risk for our draft picks (aka two young defensive players with potential rather than one pick who could be a bust). It saves us a bunch of money, money which we can use to re-sign dockery. It also gives us depth if any injuries were to happen as well as leverage for any possible trades. Most importantly it lays the foundation for a good future. We would have young players with upside without putting ourselves in salary cap hell down the road and we would keep our 2008 picks. Then we can chase the big name FA's and draft picks next March when we are trying to figure out what went wrong in 2007, haha. But at least we would have not been the usual spend-thrifty skins for one year.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

I like your scenario, Rajmahal. Unfortunately, I'm not sold we could get a 1st and a 2nd pick for our pick. Yes, Brady Quinn will be there, but there's a good chance he'll still be there at 11 too. I think a lot of people on this board want to trade down, but it takes two to tango, and this is a deep draft.

I'd love to see us bring in Smoot again, London Fletcher, do something similar to what you said in the draft, and deal Betts for pick(s) or players. Unfortunately, I think it's a stretch and doesn't sound like the Redskins.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;281332]I like your scenario, Rajmahal. Unfortunately, I'm not sold we could get a 1st and a 2nd pick for our pick. Yes, Brady Quinn will be there, but there's a good chance he'll still be there at 11 too. I think a lot of people on this board want to trade down, but it takes two to tango, and this is a deep draft.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure if we will have a trade option, but if we do it will almost certainly involve a 1st and 2nd rounder. The Browns gave up their 2nd just to move up ONE spot to draft Winslow. The Jets traded the 13th overall and a late 1st (26th?) to nab Dewayne Robertson at #4. Tope 10 picks are assigned ridiculously high trade values.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

They also fluctuate every draft. Teams can wait in a draft like this and save themselves picks. Unless Calvin Johnson drops to us, I don't see a player that's unpassable.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=Daseal;281343]They also fluctuate every draft. Teams can wait in a draft like this and save themselves picks. Unless Calvin Johnson drops to us, I don't see a player that's unpassable.[/quote]I'd pass on him as Washington.

IMO, the only unpassible player is Joe Thomas. If he's there at 6 (no chance, Detroit and Arizona won't both pass on him) then I think we should select him.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=GTripp0012;281346]I'd pass on him as Washington.

IMO, the only unpassible player is Joe Thomas. If he's there at 6 (no chance, Detroit and Arizona won't both pass on him) then I think we should select him.[/quote]


now why would we do that

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=GTripp0012;281346]I'd pass on him as Washington.

IMO, the only unpassible player is Joe Thomas. If he's there at 6 (no chance, Detroit and Arizona won't both pass on him) then I think we should select him.[/quote]

Yeah I'm a little confused by that one myself. We just signed Jansen to an extension and we still have Samuels in his prime and under a long contract. What would we do, convert Thomas to a guard? Seems like a waste.

I don't think we'd ever draft Joe Thomas at 6 under any circumstances.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

There may be no unpassable players but there are a couple who fill a need (Peterson, Johnson, Quinn) for two or three of the teams immediately below us or who are such talents (Johnson, possibly Peterson) that someone may be tempted to trade up for them. As to the first case, since it is just one or two spots, they could get away with just switching spots and throwing one other pick.

I don't think either is likely in this case simply b/c of the way I expect the top five to shake out. I think our best shot at a trade is that Miami wants to leapfrog Minnesota to get Quinn but, again, I am betting that doesn't happen.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=Schneed10;281352]Yeah I'm a little confused by that one myself. We just signed Jansen to an extension and we still have Samuels in his prime and under a long contract. What would we do, convert Thomas to a guard? Seems like a waste.

I don't think we'd ever draft Joe Thomas at 6 under any circumstances.[/quote]


amen to that

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

With Minnesota, Houston and Miami immediately picking after us, Quinn likely still on the board, and all three in need of a QB - there may be a bit of a bidding war for a slightly earlier spot. BUT, those teams could, in turn, play us against Arizona since they seem to be targeting the same three players we are and wouldn't likely lose the opportunity to draft one of them by doing the trade.

Of course, this assumes that those three teams think Quinn is worth two picks in this year's draft. Who knows - I doubt it.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=Schneed10;281352]Yeah I'm a little confused by that one myself. We just signed Jansen to an extension and we still have Samuels in his prime and under a long contract. What would we do, convert Thomas to a guard? Seems like a waste.

I don't think we'd ever draft Joe Thomas at 6 under any circumstances.[/quote]Might convert him to a guard. Might wait a year and make sure that Samuels and particularly Jansen hold up injury-wise. Either way, we get the best available player in the draft and some eventually necessary youth on the o line.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=Schneed10;281352]Yeah I'm a little confused by that one myself. We just signed Jansen to an extension and we still have Samuels in his prime and under a long contract. What would we do, convert Thomas to a guard? Seems like a waste.

I don't think we'd ever draft Joe Thomas at 6 under any circumstances.[/quote]

I don't see that happpening either.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=GTripp0012;281358]Might convert him to a guard. Might wait a year and make sure that Samuels and particularly Jansen hold up injury-wise. Either way, we get the best available player in the draft and some eventually necessary youth on the o line.[/quote]


um the best player in the draft is calvin johnson not joe thomas

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;281361]um the best player in the draft is calvin johnson not joe thomas[/quote]Wrong. It's Joe Thomas.

Actually, the term "best" is always opinional. So I guess I'm no more right then you are. Bummer.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

IF we were in good shape on D & had a stable of young players on that side of the ball, I think picking Joe Thomas would be very wise. Even if we drafted him this year I'd still say it's a good move, just maybe not the best decision for us at this time w/our d needs.
yeah, we just re-signed Jansen & Samuels is under contract, but both those guys will get hurt & we need to look towards the future as Jansen is gettin up there.
We definitely need to get some depth on the O line.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=GTripp0012;281363]Wrong. It's Joe Thomas.

Actually, the term "best" is always opinional. So I guess I'm no more right then you are. Bummer.[/quote]

What's interesting about this little debate is that title should mean the player you're most confident will have the best nfl career.
Do the experts ever pick an O linemen to fit that? seems not, maybe when Mandarich came out.
WRs are usually pretty tough to predict success on, whereas OTs not as much. But it seems the more hype for the O line prospect the more disappointment; Mandarich & Gallery were the 2 biggest I can recall.
I would have to go w/CJ as the best prospect in the draft. He's got all the physical & mental traits, plus he produced a lot in college w/a marginal qb & offense. If the guy can't make it big, he probably has some other issues, but he seems as close to a sure thing as any wideout I can remember (including Desmond Howard & Michael Westbrook!).

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=freddyg12;281387]IF we were in good shape on D & had a stable of young players on that side of the ball, I think picking Joe Thomas would be very wise. Even if we drafted him this year I'd still say it's a good move, just maybe not the best decision for us at this time w/our d needs.
yeah, we just re-signed Jansen & Samuels is under contract, but both those guys will get hurt & we need to look towards the future as Jansen is gettin up there.
We definitely need to get some depth on the O line.[/quote]

Depth is one thing. Having two franchise LTs (and both getting paid as such) on the same roster is a different story. If you want quality depth, you use a 3rd or 4th rounder on a guy, not the 6th pick (and millions in guaranteed money).

The 6th pick needs to be a starter pretty much right away, not three years down the line when Jansen gets too old.

This is an absurd conversation. There's no way the Skins are going to pick Joe Thomas.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=Schneed10;281400]This is an absurd conversation. There's no way the Skins are going to pick Joe Thomas.[/quote]I agree, because there is no way Thomas drops to 6.

I agree, because the Skins have not been sniffing around Joe Thomas.

In my opinion, Joe Thomas is the most talented player in this draft, and our offensive line situation (the most important unit on the offense) is not strong enough to dictate passing on Thomas.

Still our defensive line situation is most important and Branch should be the pick.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;281418]In my opinion, Joe Thomas is the most talented player in this draft, and our offensive line situation (the most important unit on the offense) is not strong enough to dictate passing on Thomas.[/QUOTE]

Really? While our o-line was pretty inconsistent in 2004, it was pretty darn good in 2005 and 2006. The past two seasons the O-line has paved the way for a top-notch running attack and protected the QB better than the vast majority of teams.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;281421]Really? While our o-line was pretty inconsistent in 2004, it was pretty darn good in 2005 and 2006. The past two seasons the O-line has paved the way for a top-notch running attack and protected the QB better than the vast majority of teams.[/quote]And you don't think the addition of Joe Thomas would make it significnatly better?

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=GTripp0012;281430]And you don't think the addition of Joe Thomas would make it significnatly better?[/quote]


no

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;281435]no[/quote]I do.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=Schneed10;281282]I think this Dre Bly thing is bunk. I don't think he's a GW corner, he doesn't hit and he doesn't support the run. I think GW is zeroed in on Clements.[/quote]

the article posted in another thread claimed that Bly is better man-to-man cover corner than a zone-coverage corner, which i think would be beneficial in GW's scheme as it would free up our saftey's a lot more and allow us to be aggressive with our blitzing scheme. Clements is better but he's gonna cost a lot more.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=GTripp0012;281441]I do.[/quote]
That is not even going to matter if our defense can't stop anybody.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=steveo395;281521]That is not even going to matter if our defense can't stop anybody.[/quote]Very true. I don't think one guy would fix all the D line problems anyway.

Let the record show that I still think Branch should be the pick. Just not if Thomas is available (he won't be).

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

I thought Joe Thomas was the second coming of Orlando Pace - - - until I saw the Florida/Ohio State game.

Whenever I saw Thomas, he dominated Big Ten defenders - and I mean he [B]dominated[/B] them in the games I saw. Then I saw Big Ten defenders and offensive lineman get clowned by Florida and it made me wonder if Joe Thomas had played against "the best" in terms of collegiate athletic competition.

In the NFL, athleticism is a given for DEs and OLBs. So, is Thomas up to handling all of that or does he look really good only because he played against second-tier defenders in terms of athletic ability? Before anyone jerks their knee out of joint telling me how great the Big Ten is, I don't see any of the Big Ten DEs up there as "can't miss/impact players from Day One" this year... So, just whom did Joe Thomas protect his QB from???

If Thomas really is as good as he looked, then whoever gets him will have another Orlando Pace. Don't tell me that the Skins don't need that; Pace is twice as good as [B]any[/B] OT the Skins have had since Joe Jacoby and Jim Lachey hung up their jockstraps.

But if Thomas looks a whole lot better than he really is ...

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

I was just thinking about the whole Bly thing...could this end up being some kind of three way deal. Someone who REALLY wants to move up could give us a pick that we give to the Lions? Or someone like the Broncos who want Adrian Peterson could trade picks with the Lions, who could then climb back into the top ten and still get whomever they are seeking by swaping with us? Obviously it would be more complicated...I was just brainstorming, because it doesn't seem like we really have any trade material for Bly.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

I say jusy go after Smoot when he gets cut and hold on to all the picks we've got. If Matt Millen than comes back and makes a desperation move than talk but let teams come to us instead of throwing arounfd draft picks we don't have.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

yeah...I agree...bring back smoot!!!!

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;281608]yeah...I agree...bring back smoot!!!![/quote]


If Smoot is cut like everyone thinks he will be and does not demand a large bonus I would not see why this would hurt - plus you get to keep all your picks (which we don't have a lot of and need).

One thing I liked about the whole Smoot situation - it was the Vikings who got hit hard with giving away a huge $10 mililion dollar bonus and them having to deal with the cap implications of signing him and not the Skins having to live with the player not living up to the salary.

This situation reminds me of the J. Trotter one - Trotter plays well enough to deserve a raise, the Eagles say no way to his demands and he signs with the Skins but does not live up to the salary. The Skins than cut him and he goes back to the Eagles and does well for the money they pay him - so the Skins basically meet all the players monetary demands but the Eagles get most of the payoff in terms of production. In my opinion Smoot can be to the Skins what Trotter was for the Eagles (with the Vikings being the ones who meet all Smoots monetary demands and the Skins reeping the production benefits).

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;281547]I thought Joe Thomas was the second coming of Orlando Pace - - - until I saw the Florida/Ohio State game.

Whenever I saw Thomas, he dominated Big Ten defenders - and I mean he [B]dominated[/B] them in the games I saw. Then I saw Big Ten defenders and offensive lineman get clowned by Florida and it made me wonder if Joe Thomas had played against "the best" in terms of collegiate athletic competition.

In the NFL, athleticism is a given for DEs and OLBs. So, is Thomas up to handling all of that or does he look really good only because he played against second-tier defenders in terms of athletic ability? Before anyone jerks their knee out of joint telling me how great the Big Ten is, I don't see any of the Big Ten DEs up there as "can't miss/impact players from Day One" this year... So, just whom did Joe Thomas protect his QB from???

If Thomas really is as good as he looked, then whoever gets him will have another Orlando Pace. Don't tell me that the Skins don't need that; Pace is twice as good as [B]any[/B] OT the Skins have had since Joe Jacoby and Jim Lachey hung up their jockstraps.

But if Thomas looks a whole lot better than he really is ...[/quote]Additionally, we don't know how much longer we are going to be able to rely on Jansen. I didn't think giving him a new deal was the smartest thing given the circumstances.

I'm not sure theres a team in the league whos line is so good that they would find Thomas riding the bench.

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

[quote=Bill B;281626]If Smoot is cut like everyone thinks he will be and does not demand a large bonus I would not see why this would hurt - plus you get to keep all your picks (which we don't have a lot of and need).

One thing I liked about the whole Smoot situation - it was the Vikings who got hit hard with giving away a huge $10 mililion dollar bonus and them having to deal with the cap implications of signing him and not the Skins having to live with the player not living up to the salary.

This situation reminds me of the J. Trotter one - Trotter plays well enough to deserve a raise, the Eagles say no way to his demands and he signs with the Skins but does not live up to the salary. The Skins than cut him and he goes back to the Eagles and does well for the money they pay him - so the Skins basically meet all the players monetary demands but the Eagles get most of the payoff in terms of production. In my opinion Smoot can be to the Skins what Trotter was for the Eagles (with the Vikings being the ones who meet all Smoots monetary demands and the Skins reeping the production benefits).[/quote]

Except Trotter is a Pro-Bowl Starter, and Smoot is a decent, serviceable 2nd stringer...


but yeah I see the correleation...

Re: NFL Live: Dre Bly Rumors
 

I've gone back and forth on dealing for Dre Bly, Matt Millen isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer and if we had a GM at all then we could probably have Bly for a 3rd round pick, which of course we don't have. We're too top-heavy, so we have no depth and thus no tradeable assets. I like Bly, but only because he's proven to be able to catch a ball thrown directly at him, unlike Carlos Rogers whom I love and think will prove his mettle this year. Trading for him, hmm dicey. But we love to roll the dice, (and in this corner, Adam Archuleta!)

Smoot I like, if he gets cut. Clements or Fletcher-Baker will be a Redskin, probably whichever one shows up at the airport at 12:01am sober and ready to board Redskins One. Or rather more sober than the other guy. I'd rather go with Clements. He's good in coverage and great in run support and familiar with GW's system. MLB, I say we move Khary Campbell into that spot. He's proven to be a ballhawk on special teams and played pretty well in Marshall's absence last year. Sounds suspicioulsy like Pierce's pedigree to me.