Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;293725]I actually believe that you draft for value, but that value is relative to a players' position, and to your needs. If there were no good DL this year, I wouldn't be advocating the use of the #6 pick on a DLineman.

But there are some pretty good ones out there, and we can't justify passing on all of them.[/quote]

The depth at DL in this years' draft is absurd. Adams, Anderson, Okoye, Branch, Carriker, Moss, Crowder, Spencer, Harrell, DeMarcus Tyler, (the other) Calvin Johnson (DE)... I'm probably forgetting some people- It's one of the deepest drafts in years for D-line

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

I hate to use Albert Connell as an example, but '99 was a good year for him. He's one example of how a mid-round pick took a couple of years to develop, and came out of nowhere to provide a nice complimentary role opposite Michael Westbrook.

Turns out it was only pure luck that both of them finally found a groove both in the same season and allowed us to have the most explosive offense of 1999 second only to the St. Louis Rams.

Maybe it's a bad example because we all know what happened to both Connell and Westbrook. I think if Brad Johnson could have been more consistent, and Westbrook hadn't gotten injured in the second game of the 2000 season, we might have had yet another prolific duo at wideout and a strong campaign that year.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=Jigsaw1;293741]Well you know what i think

it would be pretty stupid of the redskins to trade with cleveland
just to get Calvin

because we all know thats what they want to do[/quote]


and why would u say it is so stupid CJ is the closest thing to a sure thing in this draft

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

absolutely horrible trade. We dont address anything on the defensive side of the ball, and we lose our #2 RB?? that is absolutely ridiculous. Beside there is that thing again "Ladell is a core Redskin" that should tell you right now he is on the way out. I think this would be a HUGE mistake on our part. CJ is truely the best player available in the draft. Probably one of the most gifted WR to ever come out of the draft. I would be all for this deal if we could find a way to keep Betts. This would be different had we not given away every draft pick we have for this coming draft.

if they deal Betts, here is what we are stuck with : no true # 2 RB. No DL drafted. At least the Briggs deal gives a LB and a pick to get the DL.

HUGE MISTAKE

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=#56fanatic;293744]absolutely horrible trade. We dont address anything on the defensive side of the ball, and we lose our #2 RB?? that is absolutely ridiculous. Beside there is that thing again "Ladell is a core Redskin" that should tell you right now he is on the way out. I think this would be a HUGE mistake on our part. CJ is truely the best player available in the draft. Probably one of the most gifted WR to ever come out of the draft. I would be all for this deal if we could find a way to keep Betts. This would be different had we not given away every draft pick we have for this coming draft.

if they deal Betts, here is what we are stuck with : no true # 2 RB. No DL drafted. At least the Briggs deal gives a LB and a pick to get the DL.

HUGE MISTAKE[/quote]

true

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

Not saying I'd support this trade at all, but RBs are easy to come by and a third round pick could still nab a pretty good DE or DT.

Again, not saying I support this trade, but it wouldn't be the end of the world either.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=Jigsaw1;293741]Well you know what i think

it would be pretty stupid of the redskins to trade with cleveland
just to get Calvin

because we all know thats what they want to do[/quote]
welcome, and i don't think the skins want anything to do with Johnson. right now it seems like every day the skins have a trade lined up with someone for their number 6 pick. this is good work by the front office. if someone really wants that pick, they are thinking there are some other suitors out there, that also want the pick. this way the skins get maximum value for their pick. and is your user name a reference to the saw movies?

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=dmek25;293750]welcome, and i don't think the skins want anything to do with Johnson. right now it seems like every day the skins have a trade lined up with someone for their number 6 pick. this is good work by the front office. if someone really wants that pick, they are thinking there are some other suitors out there, that also want the pick. this way the skins get maximum value for their pick. and is your user name a reference to the saw movies?[/quote]


naw that is my cousin it is his nickname

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

This proposed trade is another example of why I think the Redskins are the laughing stock of the NFL. The Skins are the Rodney Dangerfields of the NFL. They get no respect! The Lance Briggs deal is a joke. This rumor is even worse. No way in hell do you give up Ladell Betts, #6 overall pick and a second round pick for next year to draft a wide receiver. That's just stupid. I don't care how good Calvin Johnson is or could be. That's just dumb, when you have the worst pass rush in the NFL and its been that way for a couple of years. Whether the Skins move up or down or even stay put in the draft, they better pick a defensive linemen or else I will be sick.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=hail_2_da_skins;293775]This proposed trade is another example of why I think the Redskins are the laughing stock of the NFL.[/quote]

What does that make the Raiders or the Cardinals then?

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;293749]Not saying I'd support this trade at all, but RBs are easy to come by and a third round pick could still nab a pretty good DE or DT.

Again, not saying I support this trade, but it wouldn't be the end of the world either.[/quote]

where are we going to get a replacement? we dont pick again until the 5th round. at that point, we haven't addressed the true need, a DE or DT.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;293779]What does that make the Raiders or the Cardinals then?[/QUOTE]

I think were more the laughing stock of the offseason, because of what we have on the feild inseason.

For example, you look at our 5-11 team this past year. Outside of 3 games, they were very compeitive in every game. I think the reason all this offseason bullcrap pisses so many of us fans off, is we have the talent to win, and just need to fill in some key area's. However we decline to ever do that and just try to get as much blockbuster moves in as we can, when really if we just make a couple small moves, sign a big name every couple years we can be fine.

I for one hate this trade, as I hate every other trade I've heard since the Denver deal. I feel it really does nothing to help this team, when we have viable reciving threats, and our defense got roasted all season long.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711;293786]I think were more the laughing stock of the offseason, because of what we have on the feild inseason.

For example, you look at our 5-11 team this past year. Outside of 3 games, they were very compeitive in every game. I think the reason all this offseason bullcrap pisses so many of us fans off, is we have the talent to win, and just need to fill in some key area's. However we decline to ever do that and just try to get as much blockbuster moves in as we can, when really if we just make a couple small moves, sign a big name every couple years we can be fine.

I for one hate this trade, as I hate every other trade I've heard since the Denver deal. I feel it really does nothing to help this team, when we have viable reciving threats, and our defense got roasted all season long.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I am getting so sick of these rumors cause none of them project to actually help us. We need DEFENSIVE help! So why are we looking at a WR, or a QB? I just don't get it. I used to think, "don't worry, they are just rumors and the Skins aren't that stupid." But anymore, I am just not so sure.
Why oh why would you trade Betts after what he did for us last year and after all the good things he said about this orginization if it's not just a massive slam dunk deal? Sure he had a case of the fumbles, but that can be corrected (see tiki Barber). We actually have a solid RB game...more solid than any other team out there, and we are thinking of tearing that apart? Not so swift if you ask me.
Throughout history, I have not seen many teams benefit greatly from trading UP, but I have seen teams benefit greatly from trading DOWN and getting more picks. If we trade down I'm fine with that...especially since I don't like Gaines that much...Anderson is a bigger and better athlete IMO.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[QUOTE=hail_2_da_skins;293775]This proposed trade is another example of why I think the Redskins are the laughing stock of the NFL. The Skins are the Rodney Dangerfields of the NFL. They get no respect! The Lance Briggs deal is a joke. This rumor is even worse. No way in hell do you give up Ladell Betts, #6 overall pick and a second round pick for next year to draft a wide receiver. That's just stupid. I don't care how good Calvin Johnson is or could be. That's just dumb, when you have the worst pass rush in the NFL and its been that way for a couple of years. Whether the Skins move up or down or even stay put in the draft, they better pick a defensive linemen or else I will be sick.[/QUOTE]



AaaaaaaaaaaaaaaMan!!!!

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=#56fanatic;293785]where are we going to get a replacement? we dont pick again until the 5th round. at that point, we haven't addressed the true need, a DE or DT.[/quote]

We already have a couple on the roster. Not saying I want Rock Cartwright starting, but I won't mind him in there for a breather for Portis either.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

May be the perfect situation, but you gotta' love the Rock. It could be much worse if that happens.
HOWEVER, I don't sweeten this deal. It's not sweet enough for us. In fact I wait until draft day to see who's there when we are on the clock, unless it gets much better for us

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=That Guy;293720]1200-1400 yards/season consistently is nothing special?
when exactly did KC or SD win their last SB? lack of a true grade-A #1 WR has definately hurt their offenses, though both have monster TEs to help.

what about the certain super bowl with 3 1,000 yard WRs? what about the colt's 3 target passing attack? It certainly didn't hurt them.

DE bust rate is about 50%, it's really not any better than QBs or WRs. I mean, if you want we can throw straw men around all day about why drafting any position other than offensive guard in the first round is likely to be a bust, but that'd be fairly pointless (and yeah, OGs and Cs bust rate are SUPER SUPER low cause very very few go in the 1st round, and those that do go that high are rate VERY highly, like hutch).

I do agree that DEs are always higher priority at equal talent, and even for us it'd probably be a better pick, since our need is dire. That doesn't mean CJ wouldn't help, that he's not the best WR prospect in quite a few years, or that we don't have a gaping hole at the #2 WR spot.

a true #1 WR beats an overpaid LB or a high contract SS, etc though. While signing ian scott and drafting adams or carriker would be much smarter in terms or winning games next year, this deal would beat the briggs or landry rumors in terms of usefulness.[/quote]


at least someone else agrees with me on signing ian scott

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

I suppose you guys are probably right. DL really does make a whole lot of sense. I have been pushing Landry at six, which most people hate, and I'll admit that I like this trade up for a player who could be a game breaker for years to come. I really think surrounding Campbell with top flight talent is a good idea. The strategy that probably makes most sense is trading down and taking D help with a couple picks. I am just very wary of paying one of these DL at six or paying a LB like Briggs 20 mil guaranteed. As far as I can tell it seems more likely that LL and CJ are going to play up to their contracts if we draft someone that high, but then again, who knows? The draft always has a crap shoot element. Bottom line is that all of these scenarios seem to have pluses and minuses and I think that although DL makes the most obvious sense there is definitely room for debate. We can always address DL next year. The thing about Betts is that his value right now would be bringing a move up three spots in the top of the first round and a third round pick. That's getting a lot of value for your back up running back. Honestly, I will not be upset if they do any of these moves. I'll save my disappointment for if and when we suck again on the field again.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

PS: It would be a pretty bad slap in the face to Betts if we trade him. It's not like we forced him to sign for so little but obstensibly he took less to stay with us and that measure of loyalty should be rewarded, not taken advantage of. But man, he is drawing crazy interest. A move up to three and the third rounder is the same value as a late first round pick. If someone wants to get the exact draft chart value of Betts in this deal that would be cool.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

i would do it on draft day if CJ were still avaliable. Cartwright can be the next Betts, and we would also have a 3rd rounder.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=andtz0;293955]i would do it on draft day if CJ were still avaliable. Cartwright can be the next Betts, and we would also have a 3rd rounder.[/quote]


screw that the best thing a young qb can have is an explosive run game keeps 8 in the box it is elementary man come on leave 46 where he is

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

I agree. Don't fix what ain't broke, and our run game ain't broke.....

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;293424]I'd rather keep Betts and trade down from #6, get a third round pick and still be high enough to get one of the top DLinemen. [/quote]

Agreed! Nice Post...

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;293956]screw that the best thing a young qb can have is an explosive run game keeps 8 in the box it is elementary man come on leave 46 where he is[/quote]It's true. Play action is a young QB's best friend.

It's not like teams are going to play 8 in the box every play against a good RB. They will be mixing up their fronts and coverage all game. But if that PA can hold the linebackers even just a step, those intermediate passing lanes will be wide open.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[QUOTE=tazhog;295516]Agreed! Nice Post...[/QUOTE]

trade down to where and to whom? That assertion is compleltly ambiguous, and this is under the assumption that the top d-lineman will be available!

They will be going fast in the first 15 picks. So past in the first 15 picks Adams, Anderson, Okoye, Branch, and Carriker are all poised to be gone!

I hear everyone, but [B][I]I WILL BE NAMING NAMES[/I][/B] of the warpath faithful who will bicker and complain about how many people we could have had after our first pick!!

Im telling you now it will suck, and [B][I]I WILL[/I][/B] be here to remind all of you if you do in fact complain or start any forums thereafter!!!

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

I could see us trading up w/Cleveland, then in turn trading the #3 to Denver for their 1st, 2nd & 3rd. This seems possible since the broncos seem to think they're a player or two away.

I don't know how much cash the broncos have left under the cap though.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=SkinsFanSince91;295644]trade down to where and to whom? That assertion is compleltly ambiguous, and this is under the assumption that the top d-lineman will be available!

They will be going fast in the first 15 picks. So past in the first 15 picks Adams, Anderson, Okoye, Branch, and Carriker are all poised to be gone!

I hear everyone, but [B][I]I WILL BE NAMING NAMES[/I][/B] of the warpath faithful who will bicker and complain about how many people we could have had after our first pick!!

Im telling you now it will suck, and [B][I]I WILL[/I][/B] be here to remind all of you if you do in fact complain or start any forums thereafter!!![/quote]

I love your passion... I've been a REDSKINS fan since 69' and I will always live and die with the decisions of our FO...
It will be interesting, to see how this develops!!!

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

It's hard to call successful PA if other teams don't respect your passing game or when they don't get burned for biting on the run, so I don't agree with the thinking that WR's impact so few of your offensive plays. However, the KC offense that keeps getting referred to was an Al Saunders offense in large part, and they went for 2 rb's over having killer WR's. I'm sure we would all be happy if our offense could come close to matching the production of Saunders' KC offenses. I suppose his thinking and JG's thinking will ultimately determine whether or not a Betts and our pick for CJ would benefit the team or not. I would honestly not complain with any of our potential moves if we get to see a better product on the field and win some freaking games. Time is running out on Gibbs II and all we want is to see him and the team do well.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;295706]It's hard to call successful PA if other teams don't respect your passing game or when they don't get burned for biting on the run, so I don't agree with the thinking that WR's impact so few of your offensive plays. However, the KC offense that keeps getting referred to was an Al Saunders offense in large part, and they went for 2 rb's over having killer WR's. I'm sure we would all be happy if our offense could come close to matching the production of Saunders' KC offenses. I suppose his thinking and JG's thinking will ultimately determine whether or not a Betts and our pick for CJ would benefit the team or not. I would honestly not complain with any of our potential moves if we get to see a better product on the field and win some freaking games. Time is running out on Gibbs II and all we want is to see him and the team do well.[/quote]The difference between what Kansas City had under Saunders and what we had last year was 100% in the blocking. Our offensive line may be the best in our division, but Kansas City had a dominant blocking TE, and the best OL in football. They didn't even have a gamebreaker like Santana Moss, but were so consistent that it didn't even matter.

If we want to improve our offense, THAT is the blueprint to follow. Improve the OL even more.

The only other option is to leave the offense as is, accept the fact that we won't ever make it into the top 3-5 offensively, and try to build up the defense into a playoff caliber one by pouring all of our resources into it.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

If that's the blueprint wouldn't Saunders know it and why don't they go after it? Thanks to guys like Gibbs and Saunders you see how an extremely effective offense can revolve around your OL. What if they trade up to take that Wisconsin Guy? Move Jansen to the middle? That's honestly another part of our team that I could see us upgrading but with Samuels at LT we really need guards and someday soon a RT. I think in football that you need a dominant unit on each side of the ball, and then you scheme around the strengths of said unit. The ones that seem the most obvious are OL and DL. Give me a team with standout OL's and DL's and above average quarterbacking and you can't expect to lose more often than you win. CJ would give us standouts in the passing game, which is another rout to take. We already get average to somewhat above average OL play.

My whole thinking on this has been that Landry would give us a standout secondary, and CJ would give us standout WR's to go with Portis, Campbell and Cooley. The risk is that you really upgrade and sink money and draft picks into positions where football games are not ultimately won. If I were building a team from scratch, I would go for QB first and then build the lines, while keeping an eye out for one standout CB, WR, LB, RB and TE. Unfortunately, we don't have that luxury, because we are up against the cap with a dearth of draft picks and our roster is almost set. So, it's either shore up the DL knowing that the unit will most likely not become dominant overnight, or go bonkers at saftey or WR.

To me it's a Gibbs decision on a Gibbs time-frame, so he'll make the decision based on who helps him re-climb the mountain fastest. I guess we have to sit back, [I]cavetch[/I], and hope for the best.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;295762]The difference between what Kansas City had under Saunders and what we had last year was 100% in the blocking. Our offensive line may be the best in our division, but Kansas City had a dominant blocking TE, and the best OL in football. They didn't even have a gamebreaker like Santana Moss, but were so consistent that it didn't even matter.

If we want to improve our offense, THAT is the blueprint to follow. Improve the OL even more.

The only other option is to leave the offense as is, accept the fact that we won't ever make it into the top 3-5 offensively, and try to build up the defense into a playoff caliber one by pouring all of our resources into it.[/quote]

I think the offense has the potential to vastly improve even if we leave it as is. We have bolstered our depth at O-line despite losing Dock, Portis and Betts will be healthy to start the season and be a great 1-2, and most importantly, Campbell is cemented as our starter. Despite Portis' injuries and inconsistent QB play, we still finished with the 4th overall rushing attack. Add a more experienced, comfortable Campbell to that equation, and I could see us having a top 5 offense potentially. Campbell has good weapons to work with.

I do agree that very soon we need to address an O-line who are all around 30-31. But I don't think it's a need so pressing that we have to trade up to get Joe Thomas. That line in KC under Saunders played well into their 30's and was still dominant. We can ride this line through the next 2, maybe even 3 seasons IMO, but we have to build up their replacements along the way.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=GMScud;296172]I think the offense has the potential to vastly improve even if we leave it as is. We have bolstered our depth at O-line despite losing Dock, Portis and Betts will be healthy to start the season and be a great 1-2, and most importantly, Campbell is cemented as our starter. Despite Portis' injuries and inconsistent QB play, we still finished with the 4th overall rushing attack. Add a more experienced, comfortable Campbell to that equation, and I could see us having a top 5 offense potentially. Campbell has good weapons to work with.

I do agree that very soon we need to address an O-line who are all around 30-31. But I don't think it's a need so pressing that we have to trade up to get Joe Thomas. That line in KC under Saunders played well into their 30's and was still dominant. We can ride this line through the next 2, maybe even 3 seasons IMO, but we have to build up their replacements along the way.[/quote]I don't think the offensive line can improve anymore. Granted, players on the O Line tend to peak later, but we have a LOT of age on our offensive front.

We may not have the picks to do it this draft, but next year we have to start taking lineman early. The alternative is to watch the OL regress every year from 2007 on out.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;296194]I don't think the offensive line can improve anymore. Granted, players on the O Line tend to peak later, but we have a LOT of age on our offensive front.

We may not have the picks to do it this draft, but next year we have to start taking lineman early. The alternative is to watch the OL regress every year from 2007 on out.[/quote]

I agree completely. But we didn't allow many sacks last year (I don't know the exact numbers), and our rushing attack was formidable. If the O-line keeps on par with last season and our passing game improves, we'll be in great shape (again, assuming the D gets better).

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;296194]I don't think the offensive line can improve anymore. Granted, players on the O Line tend to peak later, but we have a LOT of age on our offensive front.

We may not have the picks to do it this draft, but next year we have to start taking lineman early. The alternative is to watch the OL regress every year from 2007 on out.[/quote]

Our O-line is in pretty damn good shape, no worries. Next year we have all of our picks, let's keep it that way.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=GMScud;296212]I agree completely. But we didn't allow many sacks last year (I don't know the exact numbers), and our rushing attack was formidable. If the O-line keeps on par with last season and our passing game improves, we'll be in great shape (again, assuming the D gets better).[/quote]Our O Line definately improved over the course of last year, but I actually believe that this phenomenon may be a leaguewide effect.

I wouldn't call it any more than a longshot observation, but don't offensive lines in general tend to dominate defensive lines as the long season wears on? Isn't this part of the Colts SB winning formula, that their DL bucked a strong trend, giving them a decisive advantage over their opponents?

I don't see our offensive line dropping off much next year, I would expect a similar performance to 2006. From here on out though, any injuries to one of the sages on the OL could really destroy their effectiveness. I'm not sure Jansen is playing as well right now as we give him credit for--but he also plays the one position on the OL we have the personel to seamlessly replace if necessary.

Statistically--and take this with a grain of salt because lineman stats are really troublesome--we had significantly more success running behind Dockery than any other lineman last year. If Wade can't come in and do the job, we could see a turnstyle LG effect the whole year that accompanies a fall in the effectiveness of our rushing game. Boy, if Samuels or Thomas gets hurt, we could be in big trouble.

However if we can avert OL crisis for a second straight year, I think the dirtbags have one more really good year left in them before a slow, steady decline comes.

Getting a dominant blocking TE in the draft or via trade will mask a lot of problems.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

Here we go again!
Same old bullshit again!
When Draft day comes, it'l all be through!
I wont have to listen to you!
(Its a cadence)

What if we trade all of our draft picks, and half of our roster for the first three rounds of the Draft next year. Then we can have the youngest squad in the NFL! Of coarse Im not serious! Just let the damn coaches and front office do their damn jobs and stop speculating. Lets talk about what they have done already and comment on that.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=angryssg;296263]Here we go again!
Same old bullshit again!
When Draft day comes, it'l all be through!
I wont have to listen to you!
(Its a cadence)

What if we trade all of our draft picks, and half of our roster for the first three rounds of the Draft next year. Then we can have the youngest squad in the NFL! Of coarse Im not serious! Just let the damn coaches and front office do their damn jobs and stop speculating. Lets talk about what they have done already and comment on that.[/quote]Dude,

You're on a discussion fourm. Speculation is the name of the game.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;296265]Dude,

You're on a discussion fourm. Speculation is the name of the game.[/quote]

You're right to an extent. I jast feel myself getting dummer with every post and every click of the mouse.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

[quote=angryssg;296266]You're right to an extent. I jast feel myself getting dummer with every post and every click of the mouse.[/quote]I hear ya.

Bad speculation is one thing. I do my best to offer insightful, somewhat plausible speculation. It's the least I can do.

Re: Thoughts on Potential Draft Trade With Cleveland!!!
 

Here is the other thing. Why would we trade up in the draft if the so called value in the draft is later on?