Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

There will be plenty of time to figure out what went wrong, and what could have happened.

Right now offering sympathies/condolences is probably the appropriate response. I already learned that... and I'm done talking about it for the day.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

As for the mental illness factor and who should be held responsible, I don't think it's a question so much of "who" as it is "how."

We can argue over who is responsible for keeping guns out of the hands of the crazy, or who is responsible for diagnosing the crazy and keeping them under close watch, or who is responsible for taking their crazy pills. But the real question is how the hell is any policy you set forth going to prevent the occasional nutjob from slipping through the cracks?

Ban guns? Someone determined will buy one on the black market.

Make it real easy for sane people to carry guns to stop the crazies? More accidental gun deaths. And how can you ensure the sane people who now own guns won't go crazy in the future.

Lock up anyone diagnosed as bipolar, paranoid shizophrenia, severe depression, or rage disorders? Pretty unfair to the mentally ill who just want to get back to a healthy state of mind. And how would you do this cost effectively?

Ramp up security at schools? What about offices? How much are you going to spend doing this?

It sucks, but sometimes shit just happens. I can't think of a policy that will help here.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=12thMan;298215]Well, it's not a matter of right or wrong. It's just a matter of being sensitive, that's all.[/quote]

Well, to each his own. But I remember the "who's fault is this" discussions starting on the national news programs the very night of the Columbine shooting.

I don't think anyone's being insensitive at all. Talking about what happened and ways to prevent it does not preclude you from feeling sorrow and mourning the loss of these innocent college kids.

Let's all relax, nobody's going to hang you for expressing your opinion too early.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

My thoughts and prayers go out to anyone who was affected by this tragedy. It is pretty wild that VT wouldn't at least cancel the classes so students could get the hell out of there before they got killed. For the killer to get away with that many shootings shows just how much work school security systems need in this country.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

The latest from the WSLS TV (NBC) website:

[I]Police say a gunman at Virginia Tech University has killed 31 people after he opened fire in a dorm and classroom. The gunman was killed, but it was unclear if he was shot by police or took his own life.[/I]
[I]The first happened at a co-ed residence hall between 7:15 and 7:30 AM at West Ambler Johnston Dorm. This dormitory houses nearly 900 students. The gunfire continued about two hours later inside a classroom in Norris Hall, an engineering building. Virginia Tech's police chief says one student was killed in the dorm and the others were killed in the classroom.[/I]
[I]The university's president says the school considers the shootings a tragedy of "monumental proportions." All entrances to the campus have been closed and classes are canceled through tomorrow. VT officials are urging people not to go on campus. Virginia Tech is using it's warning system to tell students to stay in their dorms.[/I]
[I]Montgomery County Schools are on lockdown until further notice.[/I]
[I]Blacksburg Transit bus transportation has been suspended until further notice.[/I]

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=mooby;298222]My thoughts and prayers go out to anyone who was affected by this tragedy. It is pretty wild that VT wouldn't at least cancel the classes so students could get the hell out of there before they got killed. For the killer to get away with that many shootings shows just how much work school security systems need in this country.[/quote]

I agree on the cancelling classes bit.

But what are you going to do to ramp up security? Put armed guards everywhere? Attack dogs? Metal detectors with guards there to operate them?

How would you feel if your tuition went up $5000 a year because of new security measures? A lot of people can't afford college education as it is. Do you start jacking up the cost on everyone because one extremely tragic incident took place?

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=mooby;298222]My thoughts and prayers go out to anyone who was affected by this tragedy. It is pretty wild that VT wouldn't at least cancel the classes so students could get the hell out of there before they got killed. For the killer to get away with that many shootings shows just how much work school security systems need in this country.[/quote]

Consider that the class may have already started when the campus went into lockdown, which is different then cancelling classes. Lockdown means "stay put where you are until further notice". The students would have had to stay in the classroom until someone advised the it was safe to leave. If the gunman had been shortly apprehended without further incident to anyone else then it may be reasonable to assume classes would have stayed on schedule and it would be up to the discretion of the dormitory students at Ambler-Johnston if they wanted to attend.

Really, that's simply my speculation but there's not too many cases to fall back on for guidance when it comes to university shootings.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

To my knowledge, this type of crime is limited to this country. Perhaps not totally, but generally?? (not bombing, but school related) If that is true, there is a much more elemental question....or two.
Why are we doing these things? What about this country makes these types of things attractive? How does someone go undetected in our society that aspires to be a mass murderer? We NEED TO figure out some of these questions.
Keeping weapons capable of mass destruction out of the publics hands is not an option, as the plans (and materials) to build bombs, guns, bio-weapons, etc. are readily available.
What is wrong with our society that breeds this type of person so frequently?
It is important that we figure it out, as there are CERTAINLY more out there......planning

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

I'm sure there was a lot of confusion and miscommunication early on, so I won't judge the university's decisions until more info is known. Obviously this is a horrible tragedy, and no matter how prepared people think they are the truth is you can never be prepared for something like this and make all the correct decisions in the heat of the moment.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

Schneed10 I agree with you!

People are trying to point the finger as to why this happen. It is really easy some sick F decide he would play god today. WE CAN"T MANAGE OUR LIVES AROUND THE 1%.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;298225]I agree on the cancelling classes bit.

But what are you going to do to ramp up security? Put armed guards everywhere? Attack dogs? Metal detectors with guards there to operate them?

How would you feel if your tuition went up $5000 a year because of new security measures? A lot of people can't afford college education as it is. Do you start jacking up the cost on everyone because one extremely tragic incident took place?[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, that is what this world is coming to. There are already heightened security measures in high schools and elementary schools, it is only a matter of time that the same will happen in colleges.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

good to hear that you are fine big C.

What is scary is that it could have been anyone there. It was so random, just in a class. Anyone could have been in that class. I don't know many people at VT but there is one that is good friends with one of my good friends. I am pretty sure she was an engineer major. I'm about to call up my friend and ask up about her. Lets pray that the 31 numbers are wrong and the numbers go down a bit. This is absolutely horrible.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=Schneed10;298225]I agree on the cancelling classes bit.

But what are you going to do to ramp up security? Put armed guards everywhere? Attack dogs? Metal detectors with guards there to operate them?

How would you feel if your tuition went up $5000 a year because of new security measures? A lot of people can't afford college education as it is. Do you start jacking up the cost on everyone because one extremely tragic incident took place?[/quote]

Those are some good questions. And I can't say I could give an honest answer that would solve everything. I think I'll reserve judgement until all the details come out.

@724: Well, if they had at least put the classes in session on lockdown then perhaps that would've saved some lives. That said, they might've put the classes on lockdown but I don't know at this moment. What i do know is that security measures do have to be stepped up, because if there were two seperate shootings two hours apart then something's wrong.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

The news is making it look really chaotic. How is the campus coping right now big C? I've heard people are just sitting in their dorms and not really going anywhere.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=mredskins;298234]WE CAN"T MANAGE OUR LIVES AROUND THE 1%.[/quote]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. And the 0.0000001% is probably more accurate.

It seems REALLY cold to say given that it JUST happened this morning, but this is a freak thing. The odds of you sitting in class minding your own beezewax and getting shot by someone who's gone off the deep end are infinitesimally small. The fact that this rampage JUST happened does not change those odds.

Your odds of hitting the powerball, of getting struck by lightning, or of getting attacked by dogs on your way to lunch are probably similar in size.

I wouldn't make any policy decisions. Over the coming days, emotions will run high and people will point fingers, but nobody will be able to agree on who is to blame for this. And that's because there is nobody to blame except the guy who did it, and he's already dead. It's an unfortunate reality, you can't be everywhere at all times to stop evil every time it rears it's ugly head.

Unless you want to hand over a huge portion of your paycheck for total security.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

This is sad and my heart goes out to all who's life has been changed from this tragic event.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

Tragic news... glad to hear you're ok Big C... i hope everyone you know is ok too...

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=BigSKINBauer;298241]good to hear that you are fine big C.

What is scary is that it could have been anyone there. It was so random, just in a class. Anyone could have been in that class. I don't know many people at VT but there is one that is good friends with one of my good friends. I am pretty sure she was an engineer major. I'm about to call up my friend and ask up about her. Lets pray that the 31 numbers are wrong and the numbers go down a bit. This is absolutely horrible.[/quote]

26,000 enrolled students

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

Big C.

Did you know Ryan Clark? That is the first name they have released who passed away in the shootings this morning.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;298141]Wow. Big C, glad you're alright, man.

As for gun laws, this is a sticky one. You could loosen gun laws so that chances would increase that the public would have the wherewithal to stop a douchebag like this. But the tradeoff is an increase in accidental deaths due to more guns in the hands of the public.

You could tighten gun laws and make it impossible for a douchebag like this to obtain a gun in the first place. But we all know that if he really wanted a gun to do this, he'd buy it on the black market.

I don't think there's a policy answer for something like this. It just sucks, not really sure what you can do, unless you want to post an armed guard outside of every high school and college classroom in the country (which would cost way too much money).

I do agree with you though Big C, they should have cancelled classes for crying out loud. I've got no idea what administration was thinking, maybe they needed more time to process what happened; who knows. My first reaction would have been to cancel class though.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but stuff like this doesn't really seem to happen in countries with strict gun laws. Sure doesn't happen over here

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

Are there any other Warpathers at VT?

I am just stunned. No words.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

I heard on the news the shooter chained some of the doors and didnt let people out. He also shot himself in the face and therefore making it harder for authorities to identify him.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;298349]I heard on the news the shooter chained some of the doors and didnt let people out. He also shot himself in the face and therefore making it harder for authorities to identify him.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I heard that too. He didn't carry ID and his fingerprints had no records. Theres another rumor saying he did all of this because his girlfriend had dumped him. Supposedly she was in the classroom he hit.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

For now, you should know that earlier this year the Virginia General Assembly failed to act on House Bill 1572. This bill would have allowed college students and employees to carry handguns on campus --- with appropriate permits, of course. It died in subcommittee. [B]Larry Hincker, a spokesman for Virginia Tech, the site of today's carnage, said "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."[/B]

[url=http://www.boortz.com]boortz.com: The world-famous Internet site of the Nationally Syndicated Neal Boortz Show![/url]

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;298308]Big C.

Did you know Ryan Clark? That is the first name they have released who passed away in the shootings this morning.[/QUOTE]

first off thanks guys for the shout outs.

second, i actually did know him. we werent friends really but we were aquainted. he was my old resident advisor. very good guy with a good heart who had a great future ahead of him. apparently he was killed in the dorm trying to break up the argument. RIP

to whoever asked earlier, i can tell you almost certainly that the class did not start at 8 am and last until 930 or 945. on mondays and wednesdays, most classes are 50 minutes or 1 hr 15 minutes.

when they heard about the shooting at 7:15, it shouldnt have taken them over 2 hrs to send an email saying that someone was killed, and i expect there to be big changes at the top for this negligence and slow acting

and rob, i wasnt mad at you for bringing up your point, i am just mad at the whole situation.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

How can someone be shot death on campus with the shooter still at large and classes not be canceled? That's outrageous to me. It makes me angry, but mostly I'm just soooo sad. It makes me sick to my stomach. I want to punch a hole in the wall, but mostly I'm just trying to pray for the injured and killed students, their families, and everyone on and around that campus who was affected. It's so awful. I wish I could do something.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

GM...ive wanted to punch a lot of things today, including some dickheads i was in a building with that we were evacuated into. they were celebrating the fact that classes were canceled at the expense (at the time we only knew of 2 deaths) of 2 dead people. u have no idea how badly i wanted to fight them

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

Why is everyone being so critical of the police force? Isolate the whole campus and cancel classes and make everyone stay inside? This was a freak, tragic accident. Who knew that an isolated event would blow up to this?

vcu is thinking of ya!

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

But if someone shoots two people in a dorm and isn't apprehended, then that person is basically on the loose on campus. At that point it's no longer an isolated incident

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html]Witness survives by pretending to be dead - CNN.com[/url]

Update

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[QUOTE=Bushead;298437]Why is everyone being so critical of the police force? Isolate the whole campus and cancel classes and make everyone stay inside? This was a freak, tragic accident. Who knew that an isolated event would blow up to this?

vcu is thinking of ya![/QUOTE]

they didnt have the person who killed 2 people on campus. they needed to cancel classes to keep people safe right then or shortly after, and due to their desire to keep classes going (this school is famous for NEVER canceling class) this is the end result.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[QUOTE=Big C;298426]GM...ive wanted to punch a lot of things today, including some dickheads i was in a building with that we were evacuated into. they were celebrating the fact that classes were canceled at the expense (at the time we only knew of 2 deaths) of 2 dead people. u have no idea how badly i wanted to fight them[/QUOTE]

What immature a-holes. That's pretty damn disgusting.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=Big C;298442]they didnt have the person who killed 2 people on campus. they needed to cancel classes to keep people safe right then or shortly after, and due to their desire to keep classes going (this school is famous for NEVER canceling class) this is the end result.[/quote]

Yeah I could imagine UVa doing that too. The administration here seems to pride itself on allowing class to run no matter what.

The sad thing is VT is gonna get a terrible public image because of all of this, but this could have happened at any school.

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of those kids.

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

Apparently the shooter was a 24 year old male from China. I went to a university that had an engineering school that had a notorious reputation for a string of suicides among young Asian males from foreign countries. The typical story went as follows - the kid's parents shelled out a ton of money to send their kid to America to get a great university-level education in one of the "hard sciences," the parents put enormous pressure on the kid to excel, the kid felt really physically and emotionally distant from everything he knew (which, of course, was back in China, Japan, etc), and either the didn't perform as well in school as his parents expected and/or the kid became so isolated that he went insane. It sounds like this idiot snapped after his girlfriend boke up with him, but I would venture to guess that the break-up was simply the straw that broke the camel's back.

I do not mean to focus on the shooter at a time when so many are grieving about the victims, but I thought my personal college experience might be worth a read.

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;298459]Apparently the shooter was a 24 year old male from China. I went to a university that had an engineering school that had a notorious reputation for a string of suicides among young Asian males from foreign countries. The typical story went as follows - the kid's parents shelled out a ton of money to send their kid to America to get a great university-level education in one of the "hard sciences," the parents put enormous pressure on the kid to excel, the kid felt really physically and emotionally distant from everything he knew (which, of course, was back in China, Japan, etc), and either the didn't perform as well in school as his parents expected and/or the kid became so isolated that he went insane. It sounds like this idiot snapped after his girlfriend boke up with him, but I would venture to guess that the break-up was simply the straw that broke the camel's back.

I do not mean to focus on the shooter at a time when so many are grieving about the victims, but I thought my personal college experience might be worth a read.[/quote]

Is that what happened at VT or where you went to school? I havent seen the new yet I work nights and sleep all day.

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;298462]Is that what happened at VT or where you went to school? I havent seen the new yet I work nights and sleep all day.[/QUOTE]

The shooter at VT was a 24 y.o. male from China. The people who committed suicide at my alma mater were usually young males from China or Japan attending the engineering school.

I don't know what took place at VT or why the shooter went insane, but when I heard that he was Chinese, it just reminded me of the articles I read about the people who committed suicide at my school.

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;298464]The shooter at VT was a 24 y.o. male from China. The people who committed suicide at my alma mater were usually young males from China or Japan attending the engineering school.

I don't know what took place at VT or why the shooter went insane, but when I heard that he was Chinese, it just reminded me of the articles I read about the people who committed suicide at my school.[/quote]

Thanks for clarifying. They do sound like similar scenarios.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=Big C;298442]they didnt have the person who killed 2 people on campus. they needed to cancel classes to keep people safe right then or shortly after, and due to their desire to keep classes going (this school is famous for NEVER canceling class) this is the end result.[/quote]

big C, first off i'm glad your ok. i'm not disagreeing with your post but i saw on tv this morning that the VT police thought the first shooting was an isolated event and more importantly, they had leads that lead them off campus. for those two hours in between the two shootings the police were following those leads. so yea, in hindsight, it's easy to say they should have locked down everything but at the time of the first shooting the police thought they were doing the right thing. anyways, i just wanted to put that out there. i didn't know if this was new information or not.

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[QUOTE=Big C;298426]GM...ive wanted to punch a lot of things today, including some dickheads i was in a building with that we were evacuated into. they were celebrating the fact that classes were canceled at the expense (at the time we only knew of 2 deaths) of 2 dead people. u have no idea how badly i wanted to fight them[/QUOTE]This same thing happened in my dorm building the morning of September 11th.
The RA came around telling people that classes were cancelled and the guys a couple of doors down started celebrating and yelling about getting drunk on a Tuesday or some shit. I had been up for a couple of hours by that point so I knew what was going on; I watched the second plane fly into the Tower live on TV. Obviously the guys down the hall didn't because after a minute or two of acting like complete idiots they must have heard the news and they went silent.

Anyways, I can't imagine how you feel today and I feel so sorry that you have and everyone at VT have to deal with tragedy.